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Bionic Poster
Yeah like Massu, Mecir and Rosset, all Slams winners
All fine players along with Agassi, Nadal, Murray, Graf and the Williams sisters. Federer and Wawrinka too (in doubles).
Yeah like Massu, Mecir and Rosset, all Slams winners
A year where Roddick dropped to 12 in the world and had all kinds of losses to nobodies - alright.
Guess Paes was better than Rafter because he has a better record against Sampras.
I believe strength of competition has to be taken into account. Roddick would have loved to play 2013 Djokovic or Raonic in a Wimbledon final.
Well, Roddick did beat Djokovic and Nadal back to back on HC, so who knows.
Disagree.Murray was still ranked much lower though and further from his prime than even a slumping Roddick. Roddick made the U.S Open final later that year. The 2006 result was as big or bigger an upset than the 2009 result.
No final version of Roddick is losing to Raonic, no matter how bad he's playing.I do agree there but even then only the 2003, 2004, 2009 Roddick would win. Even 2003 is arguable. I dont believe the passive playing 2005 one would, despite making the final, and despite how bad Djokovic was (for his standards) in the 2013 final. While Murray would win those hypothetical finals almost every year he played Wimbledon 2009 onwards apart from 2014 and 2016 basically, which gives him a higher odds of coming through even in that proposed hypothetical.
Roddick was ranked like 10 places below Murray in 2009 at 2011 Queens. LMAO.One of the biggest myths is that Roddick's game was "perfectly suited to grass".
His return wouldn't have stood up against competent serve and volley players on the 70/30 Rye/Creeping Red Fescue.
His volley was also suspect but only accentuated by his poor, poor approach shots.
In the 09 match Roddick was superb, Murray was still not peak. It was an extremely tight match. The game could have gone either way.
unlike the absolute lesson Murray dished out at Wimbledon's in 2006 and Queen's in 2011.
Do you think Roddick's the greater grass court player Saby?Roddick was ranked like 10 places below Murray in 2009 at 2011 Queens. LMAO.
Guess Hewitt dished out a 'lesson' to Pete at Queens in 01.
Greater? Nah. Better? Maybe, but it is a debateable subject..Do you think Roddick's the greater grass court player Saby?
2013 Wimbledon (final) Djokovic was a joke. Absolutely drained from his Del Potro SF - which is the same story with Fed at the LOLympics.2004 final Federer was so bad.
IMO:
Average Roddick < Average Murray
But
Prime Roddick > Prime Murray
In some ways, yes.In other words, you think Roddick is just better than Murray?
...but I just wrote that Murray was better than Roddick on average.In all ways from what you said in your previous post.
...but I just wrote that Murray was better than Roddick on average.
Just thought that prime Roddick beat prime Murray...
Oh...didn't realize that. I just thought to 2009 when Roddick beat Murray in SF's. I'm kinda young and dumb :/Oops sorry, just spotted that you had the sign for average pointing the other way.
Well, they are even in their Wimbledon matchup at 1-1. Pre-prime Murray beat prime Roddick in 2006.
Oh...didn't realize that. I just thought to 2009 when Roddick beat Murray in SF's. I'm kinda young and dumb :/
people are acting like Murray just beating this version of Djokovic and a flat Federer is impressive. LOL.
Hahaha, some of the things I read on this forum really do tickle me. Some of you guys drive me up the wall at times but how could I be without you for too long?2013 Wimbledon (final) Djokovic was a joke. Absolutely drained from his Del Potro SF - which is the same story with Fed at the LOLympics.
Murray got through a "tight" 2 set match against Djokovic - much tighter than Roddick's match against Murray. If Djokovic played decent tennis (for his standards) he wouldn't ever lose to Murray on any surface except quick HC.
Djokovic got pushed to 3 tight sets by an ancient hospital bound Hewitt and people are acting like Murray just beating this version of Djokovic and a flat Federer is impressive. LOL.
Don't know if Roddick could do it but wouldn't put it past other top players of his era.
4 sets, 2 tiebreaks, with Murray serving at 51% - oh yeah, what an asskicking..
Right, with Murray in his prime and Roddick out of his prime. Oh and Murray with the home court lol.
No final version of Roddick is losing to Raonic, no matter how bad he's playing.
Raonic is like the Todd Martin of this era. Actually I think Todd may be slightly better given he could volley very well.
The 1999 USO was about as bad quality wise as this years edition with withdrawrals and injuries everywhere.I hate Raonic and I dont neccessarily consider him a better player than Todd Martin who was a very solid overall and reasonably powerful player, apart from his poor movement. However he does have more explosive power and a much bigger serve than Martin, so I wouldnt entirely agree he is just a Martin who cant volley well. I think his movement is even poorer than Raonic too. Martin is a much better returner. They are very similar but there are differences in both directions too.
Todd Martin took Agassi in his best year ever to 5 sets in a slam final btw. It is quite easy to imagine him beating Roddick, particularly the rather weak Roddick of the 2005 Wimbledon final, in a slam final.
How was Murray better in 2010 or even 2011 than he was in 2009? Because he lost to Nadal?LOL Wimbledon 2009 is the best tennis Roddick ever played at Wimbledon. Obviously not "out of his prime". What Murray's prime is exactly is debateable, but as I said he was better at Wimbledon in 2012, 2013, 2016, probaby 2010, 2011, and possiby 2015 than he was in 2009.
The overall head to head of Roddick and Murray is telling, most of those with Roddick in his prime and Murray a kid well out of his prime. Which Murray led almost from the start.
How was Murray better in 2010 or even 2011 than he was in 2009? Because he lost to Nadal?
He got thumped in 2010 and didn't do much better a year later.
In 2015 he got thumped again by an aging Federer.
How are those versions of Murray better than his '09 iteration? Because Roddick is a lesser player?
By the eye test he looks exactly the same, only in the years he won or made a push in the final did he actually look to be playing better.
I mentioned Martin because he was pretty much all serve just like Raonic. I also bet if he played with the current tech he'd serve as big as Raonic.
Roddick - 3 Wimbledon finals, lost all against Federer
Roddick - 5 total grass court titles , 4 Queens titles, 1 Eastbourne title
Win percentage on grass - 87/22 - 79.82%
Murray - 2 Wimbledon titles, 1 RU against Federer
Murray - 7 total grass court titles - 5 Queens club titles, 2 Wimbledon titles ( although technically 8 titles because of winning the gold medal at the London Olympics)
Win percentage on grass - 114/29 - 79.72%
Obviously Murray is ahead in everything aside from winning percentage on grass which at the moment just sneaks ahead of, but Roddick and Murray have met 4 times on grass and the had to head is 2-2, 1 victory for each player at Queens and Wimbledon. I think in terms of how Roddick played against Federer in 2009 in the final and sadly becoming eventual runner up, he performed higher than I have ever seen Murray play against Federer at Wimbledon ( with perhaps exception to the gold medal match )
In terms of how they play on grass I think they are equal but over all I prefer Roddick game, and Roddick was unfortunate to never win Wimbledon and take on the GOAT grass court player.
Murray played fantastic to defeat Djokovic but I think the Raonic final was a piece of cake for him. Who do you choose ?
How was Murray better in 2010 or even 2011 than he was in 2009? Because he lost to Nadal?
Since this is still going on, let me raise another point. 21-3. A big part of Federer fans argument in favour of Roddick is him doing better against Federer at Wimbledon than Murray. Now I know this is just grass but he has beaten Fed 3 times in 24 tries. Man i'm still giving Murray (who has been pretty garbage against Fed himself to be fair) more of a chance against Fed than Roddick no matter how much sets he's won. His record is awful.
Martin still had a great serve. Doesn't seem as impressive as those today because he was using old tech.Those years arent as obvious as 2012, 2013, and 2016 which is why I stated them first, and with the specifics of probably or possibly for the others as there wasnt as much difference. The bottom line is it was the best ever Roddick at Wimbledon, with only 2004 even coming close, and not the best ever Murray at Wimbledon, so the "way out of prime old Roddick vs peak Murray" comment I was responding to was pretty comical.
Kind of funny you are saying that when Roddick other than 18 months of 2003-2004 he had a forehand, and parts of 06 and 09, is just a serve too. In fact overall Martin is a more complete player than both Roddick and Raonic, just without a weapon like the serve of either, or the forehand Roddick and/or Raonic sometimes has. Martin returns light years better than both, has a better backhand than both, volleys much better than both, but his movement is too much of a weakness and sometimes in tennis it is better to have a massive weapon like the Raonic/Roddick serve than an all around game.
Murray's beaten Federer one more time than Roddick in majors with about as many tries. Not exactly the greatest argument to use.Since this is still going on, let me raise another point. 21-3. A big part of Federer fans argument in favour of Roddick is him doing better against Federer at Wimbledon than Murray. Now I know this is just grass but he has beaten Fed 3 times in 24 tries. Man i'm still giving Murray (who has been pretty garbage against Fed himself to be fair) more of a chance against Fed than Roddick no matter how much sets he's won. His record is awful.
I'm not interested in what "Murray fans" think - already heard enough rubbish about Murray being as good as Becker.killerboi2 said:Any Murray fan will tell you that he was a better player in 2011-2013 than he was in 2009. You just need to watch him play to know that.
Murray's indisputably the greater grass player; he's got the majors and the gold medal to prove it. That can't be argued.
I'm tempted to agree with those that say that Roddick's highest level is better, however, mainly because I'm of the opinion that no matter the grass composition an elite attacker will usually win out over an elite defender, and peak Roddick's dedication to his high-octane, full force offense was truly something to see.
Who is the greater grass court player, Murray or Roddick?
Good question.
Obviously Murray has achieved more, mostly by winning 2 Wimbledon titles, however it is not as clear-cut.
They both made 3 finals, and both lost their final(s) to none other than the grass GOAT.
Let us hypothetically swap Murray and Roddick at SW19:
2004 F Federer vs Murray - no version of Murray is going to win.
2005 F Federer vs Murray - any version of Murray will be crushed.
2009 F Federer vs Murray - near end of prime Roddick beat beginning of prime Murray. Absolute peak Murray will push this version of Fed but will ultimately lose in 4 or 5.
Murray = 0 Wimbledons
2012 F Federer vs Roddick - Peak Roddick will push Federer and take it to 4 or 5 sets but will eventually lose.
2013 F Djokovic vs Roddick - absolute peak Roddick will beat (drained from Delpo SF) version of Djokovic in 3 or 4 tight sets. Let's not forget A-Rod also match up well vs Djoker.
2016 F Raonic vs Roddick - Roddick will steamroll past Raocic who has a similar game, just much weaker in every aspect.
Roddick = 2 Wimbledon wins
So it's pretty equal if you asked me, however I will give this to Roddick (only just) because of their 2009 SF duel. Roddick came out on top and I believe had their peaks collided, we would have seen some great battles but Roddick would have had the slight edge.
That's a bit harsh Saby. His forehand and volley are definitely above average.The 1999 USO was about as bad quality wise as this years edition with withdrawrals and injuries everywhere.
That's beside the point as I think Martin was better anyway, but Raonic has practically nothing but a serve. He isn't breaking Roddick and I think he could actually be broken by Roddick once in a set.
2005 Roddick was in my opinion better than Raonic in 2016. Raonic offered absolutely no resistance to a player much weaker than Federer, unless you want to argue Murray played as well as Federer did in 2005.
Roddick's forehand and serve would be enough to put Raonic away.
I mentioned Martin because he was pretty much all serve just like Raonic. I also bet if he played with the current tech he'd serve as big as Raonic.
Have you ever saw Roddick played during his prime years?
I heard posters in here said you started watching tennis in 2011.