Greater US Open player: Nadal vs Djokovic | 2021 Edition

Who is greater?


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    91

Yugram

Legend
This thread has lasted surprisingly long, considering that approximately 4 of the 5 posters agree on the topic.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
If Djoker is so much better than Rafito outside of clay, then why did he "allow" the losses in Wimbledon and USO ?

What happened ?
Being better doesn’t mean you win everything. My point is that it makes no sense to talk of a “slam H2h” when half of the matches were at one single slam

no one doubts that Nadal is better than Novak in clay.
 
Being better doesn’t mean you win everything. My point is that it makes no sense to talk of a “slam H2h” when half of the matches were at one single slam

no one doubts that Nadal is better than Novak in clay.
And the point still stands that Rafa is a greater and more accomplished US Open Champion, which is the question of the OP.

And until Djoker trumps that, the above remains
 

dumb-person

Rookie
Im fan of both players

AO: Djoko>Nadal
FO: Nadal>Djoko
W: Djoko>Nadal
USO: Nadal>Djoko

Why i pick Nadal over Djokovic at US Open? More titles, better h2h, higher peak.
 
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I was addressing the following;
The best matches Djokovic and Nadal played at each of the four GS sites:

AO: '12 F, 5 sets, Djokovic won
RG: '13 SF, 5 sets, Nadal won
Wim: '18 SF, 5 sets, Djokovic won
USO: '11 F, 4 sets, Djokovic won

Djokovic leads 3-1 in epic matches. He leads 2-1 in 5-setters. If any match goes 5, the odds increase in his favor!
Half of those matches were at the FO. Only 2 at the AO. What would the H2H be like if that were reversed?
Being better doesn’t mean you win everything. My point is that it makes no sense to talk of a “slam H2h” when half of the matches were at one single slam

no one doubts that Nadal is better than Novak in clay.
I was addressing the following;
And I was commenting on the nit picking comments of SonnyT.
 

dumb-person

Rookie
Forgot to say i believe Nadal still stands chance to add another US Open to his tally, this year particulary (not sure about 2022, he is aging like all of us). Adding one more USO would boost his resume heavily and set him on pole position in grand slams race.
 

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
Dude, Nadal has only two wins outside clay against Djokovic since the emergence of prime Djokovic in 2011. Let me repeat that for you, 2 wins off clay in more than a decade now. :oops:

And the way those wins came, at the time they've occurred, those Djokovic's defeats were more of a fluke and a sheer incident than anything else. (Djokovic needed a choke, a freak incident and a tough 5 set loss at 2013 RG and a 2013 WB debacle on top of that) to be really softened up for Nadal to be able to put Djokovic away on HC that year.;)

So we have a period of almost 12 years in which Djokovic has beaten Nadal off clay, how many times?! 15-20 times!? :oops: Dude that's Djokovic- Berdych H2H right there, or the whole Djokovic- Cilic H2H FGS...

And now you're telling me Nadal would have beaten Djokovic like a drum, wait, :unsure: not once, not twice but "A DOZEN TIMES":-D on HC in fantasy matches in that same period of time!? :-D:laughing: Hypothetically!? :laughing: When? Where? On what planet?:oops:
Good to see you point out the timing of Novak's losses and the excuses when he was #1 in the world.... :laughing:

But at the same time make no mention of the numerous losses Nadal had to him during 2015-2016 when he was playing crap by his standards ...

Then when Novak was playing crap he wasn't even good enough to reach Nadal...
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
Good to see you point out the timing of Novak's losses and the excuses when he was #1 in the world.... :laughing:

But at the same time make no mention of the numerous losses Nadal had to him during 2015-2016 when he was playing crap by his standards ...

Then when Novak was playing crap he wasn't even good enough to reach Nadal...
Since 2011 Nadal and Djokovic played 17 times outside of clay. Only 3 of those were in the 2015/16 period. Don’t think it changes the narrative much. Take those out and instead of being 15-2 since 2011 Novak would be 12-2.
 

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
Since 2011 Nadal and Djokovic played 17 times outside of clay. Only 3 of those were in the 2015/16 period. Don’t think it changes the narrative much. Take those out and instead of being 15-2 since 2011 Novak would be 12-2.
While I don't agree Nadal would've beaten Novak a dozen times off clay if they met in 2017, he definitely would've got a couple wins back, similar to Novak getting Nadal on clay. Since 2012 it would be 10-2 on clay if you take out the 3 losses Nadal had to him in 2015/16.

I think the obvious thing is they are each owning each other on their favourite surfaces in the past decade. Cherry picking the terms and conditions doesn't mean anything overall.
 
Djokovic leads 29-28 overall, 22-12 since '11! Case Closed!

Since '10, Nadal hasn't had any title at 2 of the Slams (AO and Wimb). Why, you may ask! Because Djokovic personally denied him 4 times at those sites, while losing none!
We're talking the US Open though
 

BGod

Legend
I can guarantee you that tennis history doesn't care :D and LOL when Djokovic literally beat Anderson and Medvedev in slam finals :cool: at least Danill actually showed up to play when Nadal played him.
Yeah and Novak beating Anderson for 1 of his Wimbledon titles is definitely a note to consider when comparing him to Borg or even McEnroe there. And at it's the road travelled as well. Novak beat Nadal on route to 18 Wimbledon while Anderson beat Fed and outlasted Isner in the 2nd longest match ever (not that he beats Novak but likely puts up more effort than USO Nadal if he beats Isner in say 4).

2010 Nadal beats any version of Fed and djoker.

nadal>>>>>Fed/Djoker at the USO. Fed has been garbage at flushing since the mid 2000s losing to a HOST of bums and mugs. . Djoker's game just never really clicked on that surface outside of 2011 when he brought it all together. the surface just clicks better for nadal's game than it ever did nole's
2010 Nadal at the USO beats who? Certainly not 2011 Novak or 2006 Fed.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
While I don't agree Nadal would've beaten Novak a dozen times off clay if they met in 2017, he definitely would've got a couple wins back, similar to Novak getting Nadal on clay. Since 2012 it would be 10-2 on clay if you take out the 3 losses Nadal had to him in 2015/16.

I think the obvious thing is they are each owning each other on their favourite surfaces in the past decade. Cherry picking the terms and conditions doesn't mean anything overall.
I think we mostly agree then. This sub thread started with a comment claiming Nadal could have easily beaten Novak outside of clay if they had met more and that this is an indication that the non clay H2h results are wrong. I find all that simply nonsense.

as you point out the Nadalovic rivalry is very surface dependent. Among other things that means that talking about overall H2h results makes little sense. There is a clay H2h and a non clay H2h. And the results are diametrically opposed.
 
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Enceladus

Legend
Nadal is now a greater player at the US Open because he has more titles, but I believe Djoker will turn the numbers in his favor thanks to a surface change. It is a pity that Laykold was not introduced to the USO earlier, Nadal would not have 4 USO titles, while Nole would have more triumphs than 3 and more than Rafa of course.
 

Enceladus

Legend
Forgot to say i believe Nadal still stands chance to add another US Open to his tally, this year particulary (not sure about 2022, he is aging like all of us). Adding one more USO would boost his resume heavily and set him on pole position in grand slams race.
However, it will be more complicated for Nadal than in the past. At Deco Turf, Nadal was very successful thanks to high rebounds of the balls (compared to other HC tournaments). At Laykold, the rebounds of the balls are lower than at Deco Turf, which puts Nadal at a disadvantage. It will come as no surprise if Rafa will never win the USO again.
 
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