Greatest Canadian player ever

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Dan Lobb, Oct 20, 2012.

  1. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Great comeback win by Raonic over Krygios at Queens Club today...looks like the new team is on course.
     
  2. Dan Lobb

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    Great match...read 'em and weep, folks...these two guys are the future of grass tennis. Nice shot of McEnroe at 6:30.

     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016
  3. Dan Lobb

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  4. Dan Lobb

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  5. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Interesting how so many greats of the 1980s are coaching now. Becker with Djokovic, Lendl with Murray and now McEnroe with Raonic and a little while ago Edberg with Federer.

    Murray could be particularly dangerous at Wimbledon now with Lendl back.
     
  6. Dan Lobb

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  7. Dan Lobb

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    Okay, a close final with Raonic showing some nice net play. Keep up the good work, team.

     
  8. Phoenix1983

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    Raonic started very strongly in the Queen's final, although Murray wore him down in the end.

    He's probably a good bet to reach the Wimbledon semis. Will he become the first male player born in the 90s to reach a slam singles final???
     
  9. Dan Lobb

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    Probably yes, and his best chance is at Wimbledon.
     
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  10. NatF

    NatF Talk Tennis Guru

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    For a player than lives and dies by his serve Raonic's serving in clutch moments is very suspect. He needs to work on this, he was getting broken far to often in the later stages of the Queens final.
     
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  11. Dan Lobb

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    .........................
     
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  12. Dan Lobb

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    Go team...

     
  13. Dan Lobb

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    Keep on going.....

     
  14. Dan Lobb

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    And going, into the final four...

     
  15. Phoenix1983

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    Dan, do you now consider Raonic as the greatest Canadian player?

    I recall that you said Bedard earlier in this thread.
     
  16. Dan Lobb

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    If Raonic wins a slam, I would rate him #1.

    Bedard won 15 tournaments, apparently all on clay, some were Masters level events...still waiting for Raonic to do something higher.
    Raonic beat Fed 6-4, 6-4 in Brisbane final this year, and has several wins over Murray, so we will see what happens this week.
     
  17. Dan Lobb

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    I would get those pom-poms dusted off.
     
  18. NonP

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    Have yet to see your boy play a single point at this Wimbledon, but yeah, if his inside-out FH has been working as well as it did Down Under he'll have a pretty good chance on Sunday.

    Still hope Murray wins it, though. Under just about any circumstances I'd be rooting hard for a first-timer like Milos, but given what has befallen the "United" Kingdom of late (a British friend of mine is positively depressed about her country at the moment) Andy's win should be able to bring the Brits together for once, if only temporarily.
     
  19. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    I'm rooting for Murray in the final. A good buddy of mine is a Scot and he's a Murray fan. Also think Murray is super gifted and it would be a shame a player as talented as he is doesn't have more on his resume. Coach Lendl must be happy. I was one of the few who liked Lendl in his day. I do like top ball strikers and Lendl certainly was that.

    I was actually thinking of Dan as Raonic won.
     
  20. Dan Lobb

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    It's time for some new blood into the game of tennis, and Raonic is just the mix of power tennis and interesting personality to give tennis a shot in the arm...otherwise, the game of tennis will wilt from sheer boredom.
    Sorry, but I have seen more than enough of Murray, Fed, Djokovic, Nadal...zzzzzzzzzz
     
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  21. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    I understand Dan and frankly I won't mind that much if Raonic wins.
     
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  22. Dan Lobb

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    Andy's first Wimbledon win touched off a divisive debate in Britain as to whether or not he was a Scot or a British player...just the opposite of bringing those folks together.
    A Raonic win would prevent a repeat of that vicious fight.
     
  23. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    I think they've joked that he's a Scot when he loses and a Brit when he wins.

    Incidentally Raonic's volleying was key today in his victory. Nice job by Raonic there.
     
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  24. Dan Lobb

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    Raonic has shown this year that the serve-and-volley game is not dead, it can still work.
    Raonic stated in his interview after the match today that he did not come to net enough against Fed, that his plan this year is to charge the net more.
     
  25. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    He was extremely effective in his net approaches. There was a very important point (I think it was break point or deuce with Raonic serving in the fourth set) that Raonic saved with a very good low forehand volley winner.
     
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  26. NonP

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    Agreed on both counts.

    Again normally I'd be with you full stop. Just making an exception this one time. :D

    It's a debate they were going to have one way or another, as we saw from their last two major referendums. What's also true is that apart from their football team (or maybe even including them, after their shock loss to Iceland) there's no British athlete right now who can unite his nation in their single-minded camaraderie like Murray.

    Andy will be 100% British forever and ever if he manages to pull through Sunday. :D;)

    If I were Milos I'd try to volley as much to Andy's body as possible. Shaky as his FH occasionally may be Murray's running FH is excellent, so stick to the center and dare him to make his passing shots as that's where he falls short of Agassi. Bringing the heat on his 2nd serves will be another key because like Dre (again) before him Andy's gonna make his returns. These two could/can punish big servers who like to attack like no other and Milos most likely won't be able to just serve Andy off the court. It'll be important to mix it up and keep him off rhythm.
     
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  27. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Andy will not only be 100% British if he win but he probably could be declared King and I don't mean Billie Jean.

    It's an interesting contrast with the huge power serve (although Murray has been timed in the 140 mph range also) in Raonic versus arguably the best return in the world in Murray. Murray's clearly the big favorite but Raonic has beaten Murray 3 out of 9 times so he can win.
     
  28. Dan Lobb

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    I will pass on your advice to McEnroe, he's got Milos working hard with some real passion to win, something new.

    No, I think that if Murray wins, there will be another dogfight between Scots and Brits over bragging rights...Andy was silent about his nationality after last win at Wimbledon, didn't want to get caught in the vicious crossfire.
    Do not underrate the Celtic fire.
     
  29. NonP

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    I used to enjoy visiting the sadly defunct andymurrayometer.com site. Pity they can't revive it for this one more hurrah. :p

    As you may recall I thought Milos might go all the way at this year's AO, and when I saw him fighting like hell despite his injury against Murray I knew he'd grab a major someday. Perhaps as early as this Sunday.

    Not sure what Raonic's net stats were like today but Berdych won a whopping 31 out of his 44 net points in what was a fairly routine match for Murray. (BTW Tomas also had more winners than UFEs per the AEC, which really calls into question how they keep their stats compared to their counterparts at just about every other tournament.) If Milos can match or better that ratio he'll have a very good shot in the final.

    Mac certainly could use my help, so do pass along the message.

    As you may recall Andy got into lots of trouble declaring his support for Scottish independence, so it's no wonder he's now more careful in public now. I think you're too pessimistic about the ramifications of Sunday's final. We'll see.
     
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  30. Dan Lobb

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    Congratulations to Canada's new Wimbledon champion.
     
  31. Dan Lobb

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    Congratulations to Canada's new Wimbledon champion.
     
  32. Dan Lobb

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    Congratulations to Canada's new Wimbledon champion.
     
  33. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Raonic had a fantastic Wimbledon.
     
  34. Dan Lobb

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    I meant the new Canadian Wimbledon champion...but Raonic also had a memorable tournament.
    This new Wimbledon champion looks like another Laver.
     
  35. Dan Lobb

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    I meant the new Canadian Wimbledon champion...but Raonic also had a memorable
     
  36. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Really! I didn't see him. He must be very impressive. I assume you're talking about Shapovalov. I have no idea how he plays.
     
  37. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Just looked at a video of him. Unusual that he has a one handed lefty backhand. Have to watch out for any matches he plays in the future.
     
  38. Dan Lobb

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    The junior final was broadcast today...Shapovalov won with some powerful ground strokes on break points, like Laver.
     
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  39. Dan Lobb

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    The junior final was broadcast today...Shapovalov won with some powerful ground strokes on break points, like Laver.
     
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  40. Phoenix1983

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    Raonic has become the greatest Canadian player, even though he lost today.
     
  41. Phoenix1983

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    Raonic has become the greatest Canadian player, even though he lost today.
     
  42. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    He does remind me a bit of Laver. When hitting hard isn't working, hit harder. :eek:
     
  43. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    It seems that the forum software is still verkakten.
     
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  44. Dan Lobb

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    Raonic needs to win a slam tourney to surpass Bedard.
    Bedard won 15 tournaments, several of the Masters level, Raonic has to win a slam plus some more Masters level tournaments.
     
  45. Dan Lobb

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    Raonic needs to win a slam tourney to surpass Bedard.
    Bedard won 15 tournaments, several of the Masters level, Raonic has to win a slam plus some more Masters level tournaments.
     
  46. Flash O'Groove

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    ??? Bédard was an amateur. He won some amateurs tournaments in Canada which later became a Master, but it doesn't make sense to call it a Master 1000 at the time. It didn't attract the best amateurs, let alone the best players. In amateur slams he reached some 4th rounds...
     
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  47. Dan Lobb

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    Bedard was stopped in the slams by Hoad a few times...tough competition.
    Bedard only played twice in Europe, so had a limited exposure to slams.
    Bedard beat a long list of top amateurs (most good players were amateurs in those days).

    Raonic has not beaten many great players in his tournament wins, just a few.
     
  48. Flash O'Groove

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    Now that's a gem!
     
  49. Dan Lobb

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    Bedard had a full-time academic career, so could not spare the time to travel to Europe on an annual basis, where he would have done well in the clay events.
     
  50. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    Yes. But Losing against Hoad when he was an amateur and winning a bunch of canadian tournaments with draw filled with canadian players and the second or third tier of american amateur players is not enough to consider him greater than a player who did travel to Europe, did compete against the best players of his time, and did lose to players of professional Hoad caliber.

    Next you will find us some American who couldn't play outside Idaho because he had to stay close to his sick mother and say he is greater than Gonzalez?
     
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  51. Dan Lobb

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    Where did you get that idea? Bedard's wins were mostly against international players. See the posts above.
     
  52. Dan Lobb

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    Bedard's greatest tournament wins are probably as follows,

    1) 1957 Canadian final df. Ramanathan Krishnan 6-1,1-6,6-2, 6-4
    Krishnan would later win this tournament in 1968 over Torben Ulrich

    2) 1958 Canadian final df. Whitney Reed 6-0, 6-3, 6-3
    Reed would later win this tournament twice.

    3) 1957 North of England Hard Courts final df. Alan Mills 6-2, 6-3.
    Mills defeated Laver in the 1961 London Hard Court, so he was good on clay.

    4) 1957 Sutton Hard Courts final df. Bob Howe 6-2, 6-1.
    Howe defeated Hoad in 1956, and Laver in 1957, a strong clay player.

    5) 1960 Eastern Clay Court final df. Gene Scott 1-6, 14-12, 2-6, 6-4, 6-2.
    Scott was ranked about #4 in the U.S., so he was a strong player. Scott was a quarter-finalist at Roland Garros in 1964.

    6) 1965 Quebec final df. Ron Holmberg 6-2, 6-2, 8-6. Remarkable showing for the 34 year-old Bedard.

    All of these tournaments were apparently held on clay.

    Bedard's breakthrough moment occurred at the Italian in Rome in 1954, when he suddenly caught fire in a 2nd round match against Sven Davidson and won in five sets, 4-6,3-6, 11-9, 6-3, 6-2.
    Bedard later lost a quarter-final to Drobny, the defending champion.
    Davidson would defeat Rosewall at Roland Garros immediately after this event.
    Bedard played well that year at Roland Garros and Wimbledon, but lost to Hoad in both tournaments.

    This list is not about wins in Canada or over a small group of Canadian players...it is international in scope.
     
  53. Dan Lobb

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    From the list above you will see that Bedard's final round opponents included Krishnan (runner-up to Hoad in the Northern Lawn Tennis that year), Whitney Reed (a U.S. #1 player), Alan Mills (a victor over Laver in the London Hardcourt), Bob Howe (who defeated both Hoad and Laver in 1956-7), Gene Scott ( U.S. #4), Ron Holmberg (who defeated Laver, Emerson, Santana, Osuna on clay).
    Even when he won the Adirondack's Invitational in 1958, his final round opponent was Lorne Main , a fellow Canadian who had won Monaco in 1954 over a strong clay field.

    There were no easy finals there.
     
  54. Dan Lobb

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    I would nominate the reigning Olympic golf champion, George Lyon.
    His Olympic trophy is on display at the Glenn Abbey golf course a few blocks from here.

    http://www.chch.com/swing-and-a-miss/

    Just as a follow-up, it was announced today that all four golfers mentioned in this video, Brookes, Sharp, Delaet, and Hearn will compete in the Rio Olympics and defend the Olympic golf gold medal won by Canada.
     

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