Greatest Minds of All Time

That is nice to say, but reality is that power and politics require a certain set of skills and many people don't have it.
But some people DID have power and chose to use it for a cause. Whether good or bad depends on each one's viewpoint. But not everyone in politics is a career politician. Gandhi had the most important skill required of a politician and that is the support of the electorate. Similarly, Washington could have been President for life but chose otherwise. We know that a certain revered US President chose not to adhere to this unwritten convention, forcing Congress to later codify the two term limitation into law. So different people use power differently.
 
Haha yes, to me Ilayaraja created magic with his BGMs more so than his regular music - haunting. I had mentioned earlier on in this thread that I purposely refrained from naming people that might be known only to a few of us. You already are aware about my fanaticism towards BMK's musical gifts. To me that man was a genius :D
Yeah, just mentioned him because the parallel was striking. Hitchcock too had a disdainful view of actors. And just as Raja wrote his scores single fair copy never to be second guessed and without ever playing the notes on an instrument to check if it was OK, Hitchcock apparently didn't look into the camera while shooting. He felt a good director shouldn't have to! Because the scene he wanted was already crystal clear in his head down to the last detail.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
Sufi Rumi -

Maulana Jalaluddin Rumi was a 13th century Persian poet, an Islamic dervish and a Sufi mystic. He is regarded as one of the greatest spiritual masters and poetical intellects. Born in 1207 AD, he belonged to a family of learned theologians. He made use of everyday life's circumstances to describe the spiritual world.

Rumi has been described as the "most popular poet" and the "best selling poet" in the United States.


Yes, I would put him on the list of great/greatest minds. Very influential.

Why should our list have only scientists or theoretical physicists.
 

Zara

Legend
Yes, I would put him on the list of great/greatest minds. Very influential.

Why should our list have only scientists or theoretical physicists.
List should have everyone whoever influenced humanity and brought something new to the table; albeit something positive.
 

max

Legend
A thought occurred to me, and I considered creating a new thread, but thought I'd pose the question to you here first:

Do you believe that rage and/or discord necessarily accompany true progression and innovation?

Let me know whether this is clear, or whether further elaboration is needed.
I suppose, but certainly there are other factors. A quick example that comes to mind is the invention of the zipper (wonderful book on the topic); guys who wanted to make money, thought they had a good idea.

Also, I think play is a factor as well, novelty. People can generally stew in bad situations for a long time, and rage has sometimes been a plus and sometimes been a negative. But emotions play a role, surely.
 

max

Legend
I liked in fact, this point of yours in a previous post



I do not know about anger but the debate of 'famine' continues to occur among scientific historians. Most progress happened in a 'hungry' (not the literal sense) societies, societies that hit a roadblock after making progress. England was producing their goods rapidly - how could they hasten moving goods from one place to another? Voila steam engine. Ancient Indian astrologers needed something to accurately calculate certain measurements of stars, they had to come up with 0 as a number. The Greeks too needed better tools to explain certain principles that was hampering their daily progress. That said, none of this could happen had the kings of those times had not provided for an environment for healthy and organic growth of science. In modern societies where writers are not allowed to write are societies that are stifling geniuses. Countries that don't spend on research grants are the ones that are unable to produce scientific breakthroughs.

Can you please elaborate on the discord bit? Do you mean rivalry or jealousy among greats?
No. The steam engine was derived from the early coal mine shuttles. Then adapted for transportation purposes. If you want to go historical, of course the ancient Greeks and Chinese had steam toys.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
You are misquoting me totally.

I never said her dream is an established fact. I asked you to tell me what miraculous events you were talking of. Because I hardly consider this dream worth taking seriously.

You have yet to come out with an answer to my question, you only misquoted me.

There were talks of miracles by other people then, which the Buddha quashed. He was against miracles and such stuff.
But he just claimed one day that he was the enlightened one LOL. Mighty arrogant I should say especially if it is true that he died of choking on a fish bone. Not very enlightened.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Yes, I would put him on the list of great/greatest minds. Very influential.

Why should our list have only scientists or theoretical physicists.
Then you need to include Omar Khayyam and Mirza Ghalib too.

Have you been to the Ghalib academy and his Delhi living quarters? I want to visit them when you invite me over for a stay at your mansion.
 

Azure

Legend
No. The steam engine was derived from the early coal mine shuttles. Then adapted for transportation purposes. If you want to go historical, of course the ancient Greeks and Chinese had steam toys.
Yes, but wasn't it also for moving loads or am I missing something?
 

Genious at Work

Hall of Fame
You had me until the bolded italicized bastardized word that associates you, a favorite poster, with someone I’m not so fond of. Are you bae? Do you slay?
I thought for a moment before poasting, but I guess the word epic describes Nadal well after all, even though it doesn't seem to be a dictionary word. I am bae but only for Chrrrshr (I like big mounds.)

Talking about mounds, I mite start a threat about the Greatest Mounds of All Time. Kate Upton will be right up there I think.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
But some people DID have power and chose to use it for a cause. Whether good or bad depends on each one's viewpoint. But not everyone in politics is a career politician. Gandhi had the most important skill required of a politician and that is the support of the electorate. Similarly, Washington could have been President for life but chose otherwise. We know that a certain revered US President chose not to adhere to this unwritten convention, forcing Congress to later codify the two term limitation into law. So different people use power differently.
A world at war and a nation barely out of its greatest economic crisis...yeah, let’s just give the most complex job in the world to a greenhorn. FDR seriously meant to do just that by encouraging his right-hand man James Farley to seek the Democratic nomination but world events in early 1940 (Dunkirk, French surrende, Battle of Britain) made party leaders lean towards more of the same would beat the GOP more easily. Another landslide resulted.

FDR wasn’t even close to the first to seek a third term...Grant failed to be nominated in 1880 after a one-term hiatus and Teddy Roosevelt went Bullmoose, also after a 4-year gap, but lost to Wilson when the Roosevelt vote was split by conventional loyalty within the GOP staying with incumbent POTUS nominee Taft.
 
A world at war and a nation barely out of its greatest economic crisis...yeah, let’s just give the most complex job in the world to a greenhorn. FDR seriously meant to do just that by encouraging his right-hand man James Farley to seek the Democratic nomination but world events in early 1940 (Dunkirk, French surrende, Battle of Britain) made party leaders lean towards more of the same would beat the GOP more easily. Another landslide resulted.

FDR wasn’t even close to the first to seek a third term...Grant failed to be nominated in 1880 after a one-term hiatus and Teddy Roosevelt went Bullmoose, also after a 4-year gap, but lost to Wilson when the Roosevelt vote was split by conventional loyalty within the GOP staying with incumbent POTUS nominee Taft.
And yet, it was Truman on whom it fell to end the world war (albeit the worst was over with Germany's loss) because FDR died in office. I understand your argument, that circumstances made it necessary for FDR to stay on, but you ideally want to trust the institutional capacity of a nation more rather than depending on an individual. My larger point was about how different people utilise power - rather than castigating FDR for seeking a third term - and your other examples also demonstrate it.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
And yet, it was Truman on whom it fell to end the world war (albeit the worst was over with Germany's loss) because FDR died in office. I understand your argument, that circumstances made it necessary for FDR to stay on, but you ideally want to trust the institutional capacity of a nation more rather than depending on an individual. My larger point was about how different people utilise power - rather than castigating FDR for seeking a third term - and your other examples also demonstrate it.
FDR died in his fourth term, less than 3 months after his final inauguration. Again, world crisis is not an ideal time to transfer power. The inherent potential for vulnerability due to the 22nd Amendment’s ironclad restrictions hasn’t been tested yet. Hopefully it never will be.
 
FDR died in his fourth term, less than 3 months after his final inauguration. Again, world crisis is not an ideal time to transfer power. The inherent potential for vulnerability due to the 22nd Amendment’s ironclad restrictions hasn’t been tested yet. Hopefully it never will be.
Well, it's your only hope (barring voting him out next year) to get Drumpf out of office. So it goes both ways.
 
A world at war and a nation barely out of its greatest economic crisis...yeah, let’s just give the most complex job in the world to a greenhorn. FDR seriously meant to do just that by encouraging his right-hand man James Farley to seek the Democratic nomination but world events in early 1940 (Dunkirk, French surrende, Battle of Britain) made party leaders lean towards more of the same would beat the GOP more easily. Another landslide resulted.

FDR wasn’t even close to the first to seek a third term...Grant failed to be nominated in 1880 after a one-term hiatus and Teddy Roosevelt went Bullmoose, also after a 4-year gap, but lost to Wilson when the Roosevelt vote was split by conventional loyalty within the GOP staying with incumbent POTUS nominee Taft.
I went to Hyde Park some years back, and they had preserved the estate essentially as it was when occupied by the Roosevelts.

Even as a kid, he was an avid amateur naturalist. There were specimens all over the place. Fascinating guy.

His famous customized vehicle was on display there as well.

 
I went to Hyde Park some years back, and they had preserved the estate essentially as it was when occupied by the Roosevelts.

Even as a kid, he was an avid amateur naturalist. There were specimens all over the place. Fascinating guy.

His famous customized vehicle was on display there as well.

I visited FDRs cottage in Warm Springs, Georgia a few years ago, which has become known as the “Little White House.” He had hoped that the spring waters would aid in his polio recovery. Anyway, it is so tiny! So humble! Shocking, how different our world is now.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
I visited FDRs cottage in Warm Springs, Georgia a few years ago, which has become known as the “Little White House.” He had hoped that the spring waters would aid in his polio recovery. Anyway, it is so tiny! So humble! Shocking, how different our world is now.
Modesty came much more naturally to democratically elected political leaders in the past than it does today.
 

Azure

Legend
Then you need to include Omar Khayyam and Mirza Ghalib too.

Have you been to the Ghalib academy and his Delhi living quarters? I want to visit them when you invite me over for a stay at your mansion.
I absolutely love Ghalib but I would think that he was not unique. I would put Iqbal and Faiz as equally great.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
But he just claimed one day that he was the enlightened one LOL. Mighty arrogant I should say especially if it is true that he died of choking on a fish bone. Not very enlightened.
Did he say he was "the enlightened one" or did he just say he was enlightened/awakened. That is just stating a fact. And you are using English words and sentences which do make it sound arrogant.

I have never read this one of choking on a fish bone. I thought it was something like food poisoning or dysentery due to eating mushrooms or pork (depending on source)
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
Did his mother tell you? That is how powerful brainwashing is. You assume that what is most likely a myth is true, and then ask questions on top of that.
Maybe I should preface that with "I have read that ".... his mother had a dream.

You have completely digressed from the point and not answered the question yourself. What were the miraculous events ?
 

Azure

Legend
I was only agreeing to what someone else said. I have no objections to including people.

I'd like to include Kalidasa.
Ah brilliant one.

Anecdote for you - Did you know that the ring finger is also called 'Anamika' in sanskrit? We count numbers from the pinky finger so the pinky stands for the first - Kalidasa being accorded the status of the greatest poet. The ring finger is Anamika since there is no poet that can come close to Kalidasa. The third is given to the poet Bharavi and so on. So yes, Kalidasa and no one close to him indeed.
 

max

Legend
INteresting to see the FDR nomination here; who was it that called him the best second-rater?

Surprised no nod to Thos. Jefferson, who generally has received great praise.
 
Ah brilliant one.

Anecdote for you - Did you know that the ring finger is also called 'Anamika' in sanskrit? We count numbers from the pinky finger so the pinky stands for the first - Kalidasa being accorded the status of the greatest poet. The ring finger is Anamika since there is no poet that can come close to Kalidasa. The third is given to the poet Bharavi and so on. So yes, Kalidasa and no one close to him indeed.
Saw some of your posts hinting at reticence to share some lesser-known (outside of India) minds extraordinaire.

Please don't hesitate to bring them to our attention, and to discuss freely.

Hoping for as many names as possible—from around the globe—to grace the place. Expand our appreciation of human potential, etc.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I absolutely love Ghalib but I would think that he was not unique. I would put Iqbal and Faiz as equally great.
Ghalib would not agree. He wrote about himself:

Hein duniya mein sukhanwar bahut achhe
kahte hein ki Ghalib ka hai andaaz-e-bayaan aur

But at least he was willing to acknowledge the greatness of Mir who lived before him (rekhta was the old name for Urdu):

rekhte ke tumhi ustad nahin ho Ghalib
kahte hein agle zamane mein koi Mir bhi ta
 
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sureshs

Bionic Poster
Professor Ralph Russel, an authority on Ghalib, apparently said that if Ghalib had written in English, he would have been considered the greatest poet ever.

The problem with this argument is that the languages in which Ghalib wrote, namely Persian and Urdu, are the most beautiful languages ever, and any translation would lose the poetic effect.

Kalidasa has been compared to Shakespeare.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Ah brilliant one.

Anecdote for you - Did you know that the ring finger is also called 'Anamika' in sanskrit? We count numbers from the pinky finger so the pinky stands for the first - Kalidasa being accorded the status of the greatest poet. The ring finger is Anamika since there is no poet that can come close to Kalidasa. The third is given to the poet Bharavi and so on. So yes, Kalidasa and no one close to him indeed.
So that is the significance of Nadal's butt picking. He is composing poetry with his fingers.
 
Professor Ralph Russel, an authority on Ghalib, apparently said that if Ghalib had written in English, he would have been considered the greatest poet ever.

The problem with this argument is that the languages in which Ghalib wrote, namely Persian and Urdu, are the most beautiful languages ever, and any translation would lose the poetic effect.

Kalidasa has been compared to Shakespeare.
Bolded: Why is this so?

What sets those languages apart?
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Bolded: Why is this so?

What sets those languages apart?
Don't know.

Urdu is a derivative of Hindustani or many dialects similar to today's Hindi, Farsi (Persian) and a little Arabic.

I think the beauty is mostly due to Farsi.

Here are couple of interesting facts:

Urdu (and sometimes Hindi with a lot of Urdu) is the only language in which poetry is read aloud like music at poetry gatherings. Most English poetry sounds broken and jerky and cannot be converted into music directly.

The success of the hit Bollywood movie songs of the past was directly related to the use of Urdu lyrics. With the growing influence of Punjabi on the lyrics these days, the greatness is gone.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Did he say he was "the enlightened one" or did he just say he was enlightened/awakened. That is just stating a fact. And you are using English words and sentences which do make it sound arrogant.

I have never read this one of choking on a fish bone. I thought it was something like food poisoning or dysentery due to eating mushrooms or pork (depending on source)
What is the point of enlightenment if you still have dysentery LOL.

That is why the concept of being enlightened during life is present only in Advaita (monistic) Hinduism and Buddhism. In Dwaita (dualism), enlightenment can occur only after death. That avoids the problematic question of why Buddha had dysentery or Ramana Maharishi had a tumor. The counter-argument is that those have to do with the body and not the soul. But the counter-counter-argument is that enlightenment is kind of meaningless if it offers no visible benefit.

But anyways all this is bogus. There is no such thing as enlightenment.
 

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
Steve Irwin.
Don Bradman was a genius in his field too. One of the greatest sportsmen ever for sure.

Also some scientists but we have an unfortunate culture here of not caring much about intellectual achievements. Europe seems to be the place to be if you have a brain
Europe has become a giant Dino fossil with its “New World Order “ and is simply weak and pathetic on many levels
 

Azure

Legend
Saw some of your posts hinting at reticence to share some lesser-known (outside of India) minds extraordinaire.

Please don't hesitate to bring them to our attention, and to discuss freely.

Hoping for as many names as possible—from around the globe—to grace the place. Expand our appreciation of human potential, etc.
If that is the case then Aryabhatta should be given a great status for giving the world 0 without which number theory would be doomed.

Kalidasa has been compared to Shakespeare
Yes. Goethe said this about Shakuntala-

If you wish to see the young flowers of Spring and the ready to pluck fruits of Summer at once; or if you wish to see that object which pleases, hypnotises, delights and quenches you at once; or if you wish to see the earth and heaven in one look; I invoke the name of Shakuntala and all quests are answered at once.
 

Azure

Legend
What is the point of enlightenment if you still have dysentery LOL.

That is why the concept of being enlightened during life is present only in Advaita (monistic) Hinduism and Buddhism. In Dwaita (dualism), enlightenment can occur only after death. That avoids the problematic question of why Buddha had dysentery or Ramana Maharishi had a tumor. The counter-argument is that those have to do with the body and not the soul. But the counter-counter-argument is that enlightenment is kind of meaningless if it offers no visible benefit.

But anyways all this is bogus. There is no such thing as enlightenment.
Lol enlightenment is not a miracle worker. Even if you don't believe in the concept of enlightenment, it is quite amusing to think that having bodily needs and ailments are going to be removed just because you know your true nature. It's like looking for your glasses while still wearing them (a classic Ramakrishna Paramahamsa example). Once you realise that you were wearing them all this time, you suddenly don't get perfect eyesight.

Miracles or even the fact that someone is enlightened or not is of no use to me and you anyway.
 
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sureshs

Bionic Poster
Lol enlightenment is not a miracle worker. Even if you don't believe in the concept of enlightenment, it is quite amusing to think that having bodily needs and ailments are going to be removed just because you know your true nature. It's like looking for your glasses while still wearing them (a classic Ramakrishna Paramahamsa example). Once you realise that you were wearing them all the time, you suddenly don't get perfect eyesight.

Miracles or even the fact that someone is enlightened or not is of no use to me and you anyway.
Then there is really no point in talking about this.

Many of those analogies are simply play on words, like rope and snake being mistaken for each other, as if it is something profound.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
If that is the case then Aryabhatta should be given a great status for giving the world 0 without which number theory would be doomed.
The first recorded instance of 0 is from Mesopotamia and then independently discovered by the Mayans, before it was discovered again in India.
 

Azure

Legend
Then there is really no point in talking about this.

Many of those analogies are simply play on words, like rope and snake being mistaken for each other, as if it is something profound.
Are you saying that enlightenment is a miracle worker or that there is no such thing as enlightenment? In any case I think lightenment is better - happy heart, happy and peaceful mind :)
 

Azure

Legend
The first recorded instance of 0 is from Mesopotamia and then independently discovered by the Mayans, before it was discovered again in India.
Is that so? Of course many such discoveries have had independent minds coming up with the right theories concurrently. Nevertheless it's a great discovery.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Are you saying that enlightenment is a miracle worker or that there is no such thing as enlightenment? In any case I think lightenment is better - happy heart, happy and peaceful mind :)
I have never met such a person in my life. It is all hearsay. Same for the past. Such people never existed.
 
Don't know.

Urdu is a derivative of Hindustani or many dialects similar to today's Hindi, Farsi (Persian) and a little Arabic.

I think the beauty is mostly due to Farsi.

Here are couple of interesting facts:

Urdu (and sometimes Hindi with a lot of Urdu) is the only language in which poetry is read aloud like music at poetry gatherings. Most English poetry sounds broken and jerky and cannot be converted into music directly.

The success of the hit Bollywood movie songs of the past was directly related to the use of Urdu lyrics. With the growing influence of Punjabi on the lyrics these days, the greatness is gone.
Interesting. Thank you.

I do find the bolded claim a tad curious. :unsure:
 
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