Greatest players ever per surface

cuddles26

Banned
Who do you consider the greatest players ever amongst the men and women on each surface. Here are mine:

Women:

Hard courts- Serena Williams
Grass- Steffi Graf
Clay- Justine Henin
Indoors- Martina Navratilova


Men:

Hard courts- Roger Federer
Grass- Rod Laver
Clay- Rafael Nadal
Indoors- Pete Sampras
 

Lionheart392

Professional
Henin the best ever on clay? Wasn't it you who started a thread recently saying Serena is a better claycourter than Henin?
 
Women:

Hard courts- Steffi Graf
Grass- Steffi Graf or Martina Navratilova
Clay- Chris Evert or Monica Seles or Steffi Graf
Indoors- Martina Navratilova


Men:

Hard Courts- Pete Sampras
Grass- Rod Laver
Clay- Bjorn Borg
Indoors- Ivan Lendl
 
Henin the best ever on clay? Wasn't it you who started a thread recently saying Serena is a better claycourter than Henin?

Yeah that is funny. I guess you can be an inferior player to Van Roost, an inferior clay courter than Serena, and the greatest clay courter ever still somehow. :lol:
 

boredone3456

G.O.A.T.
Women

Hardcourts- Tough call between Graf, Seles and Navratilova
Grass- Navratilova or Graf...leaning to Nav
Clay- Chris Evert
Indoor-Definitely Navratilova


Men

Hardcourts- I'll give this one to Federer
Grass- Laver (sorry Rodger and Pete fans...)
Clay- Borg
Indoor- Lendl
 

timnz

Legend
Almost perfect

Women:

Hard courts- Steffi Graf
Grass- Steffi Graf or Martina Navratilova
Clay- Chris Evert or Monica Seles or Steffi Graf
Indoors- Martina Navratilova


Men:

Hard Courts- Pete Sampras
Grass- Rod Laver
Clay- Bjorn Borg
Indoors- Ivan Lendl


Almost perfect for men hard courts I would put Sampras or Federer - otherwise perfect.

Note: Good that you have remembered how fantastic Lendl was indoors. 9 straight Masters Cup finals! 66 straight match wins!
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Hard Courts- Roger Federer
Grass- Pete Sampras/Roger Federer
Clay- Rafael Nadal
Indoors- McEnroe/Pete Sampras

Hard courts- Serena
Grass- Navratilova/Graf
Clay- Chris Evert/Seles
Indoors- Martina Navratilova

I know some people in here wants to add players from pre-open era.
 
Women

Hardcourts- Tough call between Graf, Seles and Navratilova
Grass- Navratilova or Graf...leaning to Nav
Clay- Chris Evert
Indoor-Definitely Navratilova


Men

Hardcourts- I'll give this one to Federer
Grass- Laver (sorry Rodger and Pete fans...)
Clay- Borg
Indoor- Lendl

Best ever on hard courts is definitely not Navratilova. Currently she has 7 combined Australian and U.S Opens, which is already less than Graf, Evert, same as Serena, and only 1 more than Seles even with the Seles stabbing. However the Australian Open was played on slow grass until 1987. Had the Australian Open been played on rebound ace she most likely would have less than 7 as that would not have been a good surface for her at all, certainly less so than grass. Given that none of her Australian Open titles in 81, 83, 85 were that convincing even on her beloved grass, and that Evert trounced her in 88 when Evert was older than her, one wonders how much if at all she would have won on rebound ace. Rebound ace likely would have been her worst surface given her playing style, moreso than clay.

Then on what would be by far her best hard court she still has fewer U.S Opens than Graf and Evert. I know all of Everts were not on decoturf, but Evert would probably still have around 6 if it were on decoturf from 71-77 as she benefits from 71-74 vs grass, and is hurt by decoturf vs clay from 75-77. She probably wins 1 or 2 (quite possibly 2) of the 3 she won from 75-77 anyway given that she was the dominant player at the time, although not as dominant on other surfaces as on clay; and probably gains another 1-2 she never won from 72-74 if she gets to play King, Goolagong, and Court on hard courts now rather than on grass.

At most I would rate Navratilova 5th best on hard courts behind those 4.
 

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
Hard Courts- Andy Roddick
Grass- Andy Roddick
Clay- Andy Roddick
Indoors- Andy Roddick

Hard courts- Baboon
Grass- Baboon
Clay- Baboon
Indoors- Baboon


Sorry, this is the Former Pro Player section, not the comedy section.
"Clay- Andy Roddick" Very funny!
 
Hard Courts- Roger Federer
Grass- Pete Sampras/Roger Federer
Clay- Rafael Nadal
Indoors- McEnroe/Pete Sampras

Hard courts- Serena
Grass- Navratilova/Graf
Clay- Chris Evert/Seles
Indoors- Martina Navratilova

I know some people in here wants to add players from pre-open era.

Seles only has 3 French Open titles. She only won Rome twice, once in 1990, then once again in the early 2000s. If one is talking about sheer doinance or peak level of play in her best years ever she was trounced in some tier 1 tournaments on clay and struggled hard to win her French Opens. What ifs can only count for so much.
 

Andres

G.O.A.T.
I'm still undecided about male Indoors: Both McEnroe and Lendl are the obvious choices. I'll go with JMac.
 

Lionheart392

Professional
I don't see how Navratilova can be considered above or even equal to Graf on hardcourts. IMO Graf is undeniably the best ever on hardcourts, she has the highest winning percentage of matches played on hard in the open era I believe as well as a combined 9 slams on hard. It's strange that she doesn't seem to be the obvious choice for many (I'm open to other's opinions on this of course).
 

mtr1

Professional
Men

Grass: Federer
Hard: Federer
Clay: Borg
Indoor: Henman:) (McEnroe really but I've got to fit Tiger Tim in somewhere)

Women

Grass: Navratilova
Hard: Graf
Clay: Evert
Indoor: Navratilova
 

flying24

Banned
Venus is best on grass imo...

Yes since Graf and Navratilova in their primes would have lost to both Karolina Sprem and Jelena Jankovic at Wimbledon in a span of only 2 years. Also the inferior record of Venus at Wimbledon (barely more than half the Wimbledon titles as Navratilova) can easily be put down to tougher competition. Such as beating Marian Bartoli, a visibly injured Davenport, and a pre prime baby Henin on her worst surface in 3 of your 5 Wimbledon finals.
 
Last edited:

Lionheart392

Professional
Yes since Graf and Navratilova in their primes would have lost to both Karolina Sprem and Jelena Jankovic at Wimbledon in a span of only 2 years. Also the inferior record of Venus at Wimbledon (barely more than half the Wimbledon titles as Navratilova) can easily be put down to tougher competition. Such as beating Marian Bartoli, a visibly injured Davenport, and a pre prime baby Henin on her worst surface in 3 of your 5 Wimbledon finals.

Venus is a great Wimbledon champion, not doubt at it, but IMO she hasn't done enough to be ranked up there with Graf and Navratilova like some commentators were suggesting this year. She's still a tier below them.
 

flying24

Banned
Venus is a great Wimbledon champion, not doubt at it, but IMO she hasn't done enough to be ranked up there with Graf and Navratilova like some commentators were suggesting this year. She's still a tier below them.

The only commentators who would even suggest Venus warrants being up with Graf and Navratilova on grass are Americans. More specifically such illegitimate opinions as the pathetic Mary Carillo who is still riding her lucky mixed doubles title to a tortoreously bad career in sports broadcasting, and has been the biggest and often blindest Williams ass kisser the entire decade.
 

Lionheart392

Professional
The only commentators who would even suggest Venus warrants being up with Graf and Navratilova on grass are Americans. More specifically such illegitimate opinions as the pathetic Mary Carillo who is still riding her lucky mixed doubles title to a tortoreously bad career in sports broadcasting, and has been the biggest and often blindest Williams ass kisser the entire decade.

It was actually a British commentator, can't remember which but quite an established one. However it was immediately after Venus demolished Safina 6-1 6-0 in the semis so maybe he just got a bit carried away. Her performance against Serena in the final was extremely uninspiring.
 

flying24

Banned
It was actually a British commentator, can't remember which but quite an established one. However it was immediately after Venus demolished Safina 6-1 6-0 in the semis so maybe he just got a bit carried away. Her performance against Serena in the final was extremely uninspiring.

Safinas lack of skill or competence on grass is blindingly obvious. Her being in the semis of Wimbledon just goes to show how incredibly shallow the current womens grass court field is, even more than Safina being ranked #1 is a reflection on the overall womens game. Even a completely washed up Mauresmo should have taken her out in the round of 16 but for a bad 3rd set choke by Mauresmo. Anyone of the top 20 grass courters of all time could beat Safina on grass 6-1, 6-0 too. Heck Sanchez Vicario or Sabatini in their primes probably could, Seles in 92 could have, and Dementieva or Azarenka at this years Wimbledon probably could have if they were drawn to play her. Nothing special about that.
 
Hardcourts: Roger Federer.
Grass: Pete Sampras.
Clay: Bjorn Borg or Rafael Nadal.
Carpet: Boris Becker (No one comes close).
Indoors: Sampras or Lendl (possibly surpassed by Federer).
 

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
cuddles 26,

Regarding greatest player on various surfaces you have:

Hard Courts: Federer
Grass: Laver
Clay: Nadal
Indoors: Sampras

I have:

Hard C. Laver
Grass Laver
Clay Borg/Nadal/Rosewall (cannot decide)
Indoors Gonzalez by far
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Men

Grass: Federer
Hard: Federer
Clay: Borg
Indoor: Henman:) (McEnroe really but I've got to fit Tiger Tim in somewhere)

Women

Grass: Navratilova
Hard: Graf
Clay: Evert
Indoor: Navratilova

In 2009 I can agree, but since Nadal won 7 RG he should be ahead of Borg. Fed continue to win on grass and hc continue to make stronger claim on these two surfaces.
 

Nadal_Power

Semi-Pro
Hardcourts: Roger Federer.
Grass: Pete Sampras.
Clay: Bjorn Borg or Rafael Nadal.
Carpet: Boris Becker (No one comes close).
Indoors: Sampras or Lendl (possibly surpassed by Federer).

Well I'm not that sure about Carpet and Becker alone as greatest ever.. Lendl achieved more on that surface, and McEnroe was hell of a player on Carpet
 

BTURNER

Legend
Men

Grass: Sampras #2 Fed
Hard: Federer #2 Lendl
Clay: Nadal #2Borg
Indoor: Lendl #2 (help me here)

Women

Grass: Navratilova #2 Graf
Hard: Graf # 2 Serena
Clay: Evert #2 Graf
Indoor: Navratilova #2 Graf
 
Last edited:

kiki

Banned
OPEN ERA ALONE:

Clay: Borg,Nadal,Rosewall,Lendl and Wilander
Indoor:Lendl,Becker,Laver/Rosewall,Mc Enroe,Sampras.Connors comes next
Hard:Connors,Mac,Lendl,Agassi and Sampras or Federer.
Grass:Laver,Borg,Newcombe,Sampras or Federer and Mac or Becker

Would have been great to see top Hoad and top Gonzales on a fast indoor carpet or wood court.
 

kiki

Banned
kiki,

You forgot the Rocket for hardcourt and Muscles for grass...

....I didn´t want to show all the cards at once...

PRE OPEN ERA

Clay: Rosewall,Santana,Lacoste,Perry,Patty
Indoors:Tilden,Vines,Budge,Kramer and Gonzo
hard: can´t tell, I guess should ´ve been Hoad
Grass:perry,Kramer,Hoad,Budge,Tilden or Cochet

I would also mention Crawford,Borotra,Von Cramm,Emerson,Sedgman and Trabert.They were a notch below the above mentioned.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
OPEN ERA ALONE:

Clay: Borg,Nadal,Rosewall,Lendl and Wilander
Indoor:Lendl,Becker,Laver/Rosewall,Mc Enroe,Sampras.Connors comes next
Hard:Connors,Mac,Lendl,Agassi and Sampras or Federer.
Grass:Laver,Borg,Newcombe,Sampras or Federer and Mac or Becker

Would have been great to see top Hoad and top Gonzales on a fast indoor carpet or wood court.

Yes Hoad versus Gonzalez on those surfaces would be matches for the ages.

Borg was pretty incredible indoors by the way. He clearly belongs over a number of the players you mentioned.

I believe Laver won a number of powerful hard court tournaments in the Open Era. I do think he belongs at least ahead of Agassi.
 

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
kiki,

Interesting lists.

At Clay I would omit Perry and Patty (just a fine amateur player) and would include both Nüsslein and Segura.

Nüsslein never played against Perry but I'm sure he would prevail on clay. Nine of his eleven pro majors were realized on clay.

Segura beat Kramer at the US Pro 1950 on clay and still won claycourt tournaments at 41. At Zürich he even beat pro champ Rosewall!
 

kiki

Banned
Yes Hoad versus Gonzalez on those surfaces would be matches for the ages.

Borg was pretty incredible indoors by the way. He clearly belongs over a number of the players you mentioned.

I believe Laver won a number of powerful hard court tournaments in the Open Era. I do think he belongs at least ahead of Agassi.

true, Pancho and Lew at their peak may have been the finest match ever seen.

Borg had big big wins indoors, specially in his unbelievable 79 and 80 Masters, where he beat world´s nº 2,3,4,5...day in, day out, which I don´t think can be easily equalled.However, didn´t play too many indoor events as compared to Lendl or Mac ( 7 indoor majors wins for Ivan and 8 for JMac)

Laver won the biggest hard court event, the SA Open in his great 69.It is like winning the GS today + the Masters or + Miami ( when it was considered the 5 th slam).it is almost impossible to match.Specially with the enormous quality of Laver´s opposition in 1969.
 

Xavier G

Hall of Fame
Open Era-

Men
Grass: 1. Sampras or Federer
Clay: 1. Nadal. Then Borg.
Hard courts: 1. Federer
Indoor carpet: 1. Federer. 2. Sampras.

Women
Grass: 1. Navratilova. Graf number 2.
Clay: 1. Evert. Then Graf.
Hard courts: 1. Graf or Seles.
Indoor carpet: 1. Navratilova.

I just picked the very best. Players like Lendl and McEnroe were very strong on hard courts and indoor carpet, Becker indoors too. Connors doesn't make the top two on any surface, yet is an all-time great who won on green clay too.
I make Navratilova best on grass for her 9 Wimbledon titles. Evert tops on clay for her French wins plus her outstanding clay record generally.
 

Nadal_Power

Semi-Pro
One problem.. Federer played 70 matches on Carpet, with 2 titles

He done great things Indoor (not better than Lendl or McEnroe) but in last 10 years we saw lowest quality on Indoor tennis ever, and it will be even worse in the future
 

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
Xavier G,

I can tell you a secret: There were top players also before Borg and even prior to Open Era. Have you ever heard of names like Gonzalez, Rosewall and Laver?
 

Xavier G

Hall of Fame
BobbyOne,

I talked about Open Era players because that's the era I feel more qualified to talk about.

You seem a bit arrogant by the way. Mind that in future.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Open Era-

Men
Grass: 1. Sampras or Federer
Clay: 1. Nadal. Then Borg.
Hard courts: 1. Federer
Indoor carpet: 1. Federer. 2. Sampras.

Women
Grass: 1. Navratilova. Graf number 2.
Clay: 1. Evert. Then Graf.
Hard courts: 1. Graf or Seles.
Indoor carpet: 1. Navratilova.

I just picked the very best. Players like Lendl and McEnroe were very strong on hard courts and indoor carpet, Becker indoors too. Connors doesn't make the top two on any surface, yet is an all-time great who won on green clay too.
I make Navratilova best on grass for her 9 Wimbledon titles. Evert tops on clay for her French wins plus her outstanding clay record generally.

Actually I think Connors may very well be in the top two in several categories for the Open Era. According to the ATP website Connors won 39 indoor carpet tournaments. I know he won WCT and the Year End Masters also indoors. In total Connors won 52 indoor tournaments.

Again according to the ATP website Connors won 44 hard court tournaments. I know he won three US Opens on hard court. He may be in the top one or two there also for the Open Era.

We can't just look at majors alone. If we do that we eliminate most of the tournaments that the players participate in.
 

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
Xavier G,

I did not want to annoy you. I'm sorry.

But maybe it's better to not posting about tennis history when you are not firm in it.
 

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
Xavier G,

A friend of mine has meant that you are perhaps a reletive young man who has the capacity to learn yet about history and that I should not discourage you.

He is right. I apologize.
 

BTURNER

Legend
Xavier G,o

I did not want to annoy you. I'm sorry.

But maybe it's better to not posting about tennis history when you are not firm in it.

Now that is exactly the kind of former Player forum I don't want this place to become. We all come here with a variety of backgrounds and knowledge basis. This is a great place to learn where your knowledge has holes and fill them. But no one is going to stay very long if they have to act like apprentices and stay silent.
 
Last edited:

krosero

Legend
Now that is exactly the kind of former Player forum I don't want this place to become. We call come here with a variety of backgrounds and knowledge basis. This is a great place to learn where your knowledge has holes and fill them. But no one is going to stay very long if they have to act like apprentices and stay silent.
I heartily agree. I saw nothing wrong with Xavier posting within the limits of the Open Era, since that is what he knows. There are posters who will, to the contrary, post about what they don't know, not acknowledging the limits of their knowledge. Nothing wrong with knowing your limits and posting within those limits.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Now that is exactly the kind of former Player forum I don't want this place to become. We call come here with a variety of backgrounds and knowledge basis.

BTURNER,

See the post above you.

I think we can all help each other as always in the discussions about former players. BobbyOne is clearly very knowledgeable when it comes to tennis history and he seems like a nice person. I'm sure everything will be worked out.
 
Last edited:

90's Clay

Banned
Rebound Ace/Plexi/Slower style hardcourt- Agassi IMO. But could be DJoker eventually. Fed is up there too.

Grass-Sampras

Fast Hardcourts- Federer

Clay-Nadal

Indoors (Hardcourt/Carpet etc).. Tough one... My money is on Sampras though
 

BTURNER

Legend
I heartily agree. I saw nothing wrong with Xavier posting within the limits of the Open Era, since that is what he knows. There are posters who will, to the contrary, post about what they don't know, not acknowledging the limits of their knowledge. Nothing wrong with knowing your limits and posting within those limits.

Or taking a stab beyond your base of knowledge and acknowledging that you are doing just that. Just be willing to learn either way.

pc1, of course BobbyO is well respected and brings a lot to this forum. I was speaking about a general notion of what can make this a great place to post at times and what can alternately make it unbearable for newbies. You gotta admit there are times when, if a newbie catches the wrong insufferable or sadistic 'expert', posting in here can be as fun as root canal. I am certainly not suggesting anything about BobbyO or categorizing him as such in any circumstance .
 
Last edited:

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Or taking a stab beyond your base of knowledge and acknowledging that you are doing just that. Just be willing to learn either way.

pc1, of course BobbyO is well respected and brings a lot to this forum. I was speaking about a general notion of what can make this a great place to post at times and what can alternately make it unbearable for newbies. You gotta admit there are times when, if a newbie catches the wrong insufferable or sadistic 'expert', posting in here can be as fun as root canal. I am certainly not suggesting anything about BobbyO or categorizing him as such in any circumstance .

I understand.
 

Xavier G

Hall of Fame
Xavier G,

A friend of mine has meant that you are perhaps a reletive young man who has the capacity to learn yet about history and that I should not discourage you.

He is right. I apologize.

Listen BobbyOne, you don't have to apologize, I didn't take it to heart. You must learn not to be patronizing though! :)
I'm not old enough to remember Gonzales, or Pro tennis. That's why I rated the Open Era only. That makes perfect sense.
 

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
Xavier G,

I understand you well.

But maybe we would not have discussed the matter at all if you had mentioned your youth and not to be too firm on old history when you posted your best players on the various surfaces.

For instance I probably would mention in a women's thread that my knowledge about women's tennis is by far lower than about men's tennis.

I believe we will have fruitful discussions in the future without patronizing and so on. At least I will try to be fair to you.
 
Top