I've noticed that among the zillion GOAT threads in this forum there isn't a single comprehensive one ranking the greatest serves ever (for real), and since the serve is this sport's one shot that's least affected by outside variables (including racquets and strings) I've decided to create a new thread myself. Here's my (always) preliminary ranking: Ivanisevic Karlovic Sampras Gonzales Krajicek Arthurs Roddick Newcombe Isner Becker Philippoussis Zivojinovic McEnroe Raonic Curren Stich Tanner Rusedski Federer Muller The Honorary Hall of Fame (by order of birth only): McLoughlin, Maurice - perhaps the first distinguished cannonball serve in tennis history Tilden - yet another storied power serve, which he bolstered with spin and accuracy Doeg, John - Ivanisevic to Vines' Sampras, a southpaw whose serve was considered one of the two or three greatest ever in his heyday Stoefen, Lester - one of the first giants with a feared high-rise rocket launcher Vines - by many accounts, the best and fastest serve of the pre-WWII era Kramer - in addition to a formidable first delivery, perhaps the best second serve before Newcombe and Sampras Denton - his unusual service motion notwithstanding, an ace dispenser that could bring enormous heat Edberg - for his iconic kicker (any logo ring a bell?), arguably the best ever for serve-and-volley Johansson, Joachim - Denton of the aughts Now a couple of things: 1) The purpose of this thread is to rank the serve as a pure stand-alone shot mostly free of outside factors. That is, McEnroe's serve had top-notch disguise, variety and placement and, as @pc1 pointed out, his great hook in the ad court won him many easy points, but would his serve be as effective for a non-S&Ver? That's an important question to ask, whether the player's serve would suit all playing styles. (I suppose we could create two separate rankings--one for net rushers and the other for baseliners--but that would make this discussion even more hopeless than it already is.) By the same token, Edberg and Rafter had great kick serves that they could follow up with their tried-and-true forays to the net, but I think we can agree that most players would pick Goran's or Karlovic's serve over that of these S&V masters. Similarly, Goran and Stich were headcases and as a result their whole game suffered on occasion, but not when they kept their head together. On the other hand Rusedski often had trouble getting a high 1st-serve % without sacrificing pace and power, which tells me the problem was more technical than mental. In short my ranking is based on serves as opposed to service games, or rather I'm trying to rank serves as stand-alone shots as opposed to servers as a whole package, even though I don't discount the mental aspect entirely. I've written many a dissertation on these topics and the best way to get acquainted would be to read through the entire thread as it contains many valuable contributions from other posters, but since I know that's not very realistic for most here are a few links for you to explore (start with the 1st as long as you can forgive my somewhat intemperate tone which gets better over time): the steady increases in just about every major service stat (1st-serve %, % of service games won, etc.) among the top players since the '90s and the reasons behind them, why we should be wary of direct comparisons of service (and return) stats between the recent decades as a result, the relationship between service and return games, the useful if obscure metric of unreturned serves (that is, those that the returner fails to put back in play), and of course some of the GSOAT candidates themselves. 2) Speaking of which, you can click on each player's link to see his match stats with % of serves that were unreturned by his opponent. 3) Let's limit this list to the best of the best. Put more bluntly, we can talk about good-but-not-quite-GOAT servers like Ashe and Kyrgios in another thread. 4) Given the lack of sufficient visual evidence and the different rules they had to serve under (like keeping one foot on the ground), I think it all but impossible to rank such old-timers as Tilden, Vines and Kramer with a fair degree of certainty. And players like Johansson had too brief a career for us to make valid comparisons between him and their more fortunate peers. Hence these guys' honorary mentions. Now it's your turn to sound off and tell us where these and other servers should rank. Just try to give some reasoning behind your rankings especially of the pre-1980s candidates. Much as I appreciate your input I can't take anyone's word on faith. So instead of just stating the obvious like "X could crank it up" or "Y had a great 2nd serve," say something more helpful like this (hat tip to @encyclopedia): "[Noah] threw the ball fairly far forward (and later in his career way to the right)....this gave him a beautiful lean [motion], and allowed him to hit through the ball for absolutely blinding pace. I believe his fastest serves may have been up there with a Roddick/Rusedski....but it also made his serves fairly low margin...even being 6'4. That, along with an occasional tendency to drop his head made his flat serve percentage not so good as the best." You get the drift.