Paul Murphy
Hall of Fame
I wonder if this member was banned for saying "Pete Sampras is probably the most overrated server in history."
lol
10chars
I wonder if this member was banned for saying "Pete Sampras is probably the most overrated server in history."
Mike Sangster - who? i hear you cry....
To quote Wikipedia (so probably not 100% accurate I know) -
"Serve -
Sangster was renowned for his fast serve. His fastest serve was recorded at 154 miles per hour in 1963. This compares with the current world record of 155 mph set by Andy Roddick in a Davis Cup match against Russia in 2004. Although it was considered by many to be a world record at the time, Sangster's record remains unofficial since it was not timed with precise modern technology (Similarly, Bill Tilden had a serve timed unofficially at 163.6 mph in 1931). In order to return his serve, players had to retreat to the back of the court. In one match at the US Open, Rod Laver retreated so far back that he became entangled with the backstop netting."
He wrote a book called Cannonball Tennis! What's not to like!
Mike Sangster's service motion was aesthetically a beautiful and graceful serve as well. I have a great photo of his serve at the peak of the toss. You can see the loaded up energy about to be unleashed just by the way he is set up. Unfortunately, the photo is split across the spine of the book and very difficult to copy.
Thats only two tournaments! lets look at the average here although I think nadal has better serves than murray and better ad side and first serves than novak
Dont' know if this one's been mentioned before.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/te...urvives-bombardment-as-Karlovic-lets-fly.html
If that’s correct, then Karlovic had 153 unreturned serves altogether. The ATP has him serving on 198 points, so that would come to an unreturned rate of 77.3%.No one died out there, as Boris Becker once said, but one of Karlovic's aces thudded so hard into the scoreboard all the numbers flew off. It was like a lorry shedding its load on the M1, and took almost as long to clear up.
This took place with something like ace No 10 in a total of 51, which does not include the 102 occasions (officially described in the match statistics as "unreturned serves") when Bracciali barely got a racket on the ball.
It was a tribute to the Italian's refusal to surrender (not to mention one in the eye for national stereotypes) that it took him the thick end of 4½ hours to break the Croatian's serve, but when he eventually did, it gave him the match 6-7, 7-6, 3-6, 7-6, 12-10.
If the 102 unreturned include the 51 aces, then the unreturned rate would be 66.7%.
Anyway Karlovic held in his first 32 service games, a great run.
If that’s correct, then Karlovic had 153 unreturned serves altogether. The ATP has him serving on 198 points, so that would come to an unreturned rate of 77.3%.
If the 102 unreturned include the 51 aces, then the unreturned rate would be 66.7%.
Dont' know if this one's been mentioned before.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/te...urvives-bombardment-as-Karlovic-lets-fly.html
If that’s correct, then Karlovic had 153 unreturned serves altogether. The ATP has him serving on 198 points, so that would come to an unreturned rate of 77.3%.No one died out there, as Boris Becker once said, but one of Karlovic's aces thudded so hard into the scoreboard all the numbers flew off. It was like a lorry shedding its load on the M1, and took almost as long to clear up.
This took place with something like ace No 10 in a total of 51, which does not include the 102 occasions (officially described in the match statistics as "unreturned serves") when Bracciali barely got a racket on the ball.
It was a tribute to the Italian's refusal to surrender (not to mention one in the eye for national stereotypes) that it took him the thick end of 4½ hours to break the Croatian's serve, but when he eventually did, it gave him the match 6-7, 7-6, 3-6, 7-6, 12-10.
If the 102 unreturned include the 51 aces, then the unreturned rate would be 66.7%.
Anyway Karlovic held in his first 32 service games, a great run.
Who had a better serve people, Federer or McEnroe?
Oh wait I forgotm here is the place where Federer is a mere club player, while GM is the place where he is a god who serves better than Roddick. :lol: Too bad there is no middle ground.
Who had a better serve people, Federer or McEnroe?
Oh wait I forgotm here is the place where Federer is a mere club player, while GM is the place where he is a god who serves better than Roddick. :lol: Too bad there is no middle ground.
Federer fits much in the Mac,Sedgman,Edberg,Rafter,Roche mold. a great server, not a very fast serve, but very effective and he uses to stablish a pattern for the point.But he is the only one of the group not following it to the net, which I think is the good decision, since he is not a good volleyer.
:lol:
Thanks for proving my point.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqExjxCJr4Q
He did that against Murray, one of the best passers in the game. You know, guys who use polystrings that allow for easy spin and therefore, easy passing shots, not even mentioning the slowed down surfaces.
You just couldn't help but leave a dig at him could you? If he "isn't a good volleyer" then who is? Surely you don't think that the likes of Edberg and Rafter would do much better than him? These days, a pure S&V or netrushing style will see you getting almost passed at will, even with these mercurial volleyers at the net. The surfaces and strings changing make it so that he shouldn't come in constantly behind his serve.
I mean God, watch his volleying since the Olympic final. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Federer, in Golden Era would be AT MOST AN AVERAGE VOLLEYER
Other than that, I fully agree with you that slow surfaces and strings and reacket tecno makes the game go in the opposite direction of S&V play.I agree with you on that, but that is another problem.
Federer in his recent years would be an average or below average volleyer.
Federer before he became a baseliner would be a fairly good volleyer with potential to be great.
Don't confuse being a great volleyer with being a great net player. Federer is neither, of course, but, he did seem more comfortable at net in the early years of his career than he does now. To some extent, that may be due to the evolution of racquets and string since 2000-1. But, IMO, his volley technique is not great and would not hold up very well in the era of S&V domination. Not that he couldn't change that any time he wanted to. There is no limit to Federer's "potential" even now. But, he hasn't done it, and, given the current state of the game and equipment, there's no justification for it. It would not be the most productive use of his time. We now live in the era of groundstrokes as ping pong slams. If you want to win, that's what you have to do.
It boggles my mind how Federer is supposedly "not a good volleyer". How can you be in the top ten of your time in terms of volleying and not be a good volleyer? If you had said "he isn't a great volleyer", you'd have a point. But saying Federer isn't a good volleyer is like saying "Sampras didn't have a good forehand".
Read again. Your mind is boggled for nothing. I didn't say Federer didn't have a good volley. I said he didn't have a great volley, and that he isn't a great net player.
Your analogy to Sampras' forehand fails because Sampras, in fact, did have a great forehand. Not as great as Federers or Nadal's, of course, but, it was still a great forehand.
Federer in his recent years would be an average or below average volleyer.
Federer before he became a baseliner would be a fairly good volleyer with potential to be great.
GM?Who had a better serve people, Federer or McEnroe?
Oh wait I forgot here is the place where Federer is a mere club player, while GM is the place where he is a god who serves better than Roddick. :lol: Too bad there is no middle ground.
Fed is in the top-10 of his time in terms of the serve-and-volley game.It boggles my mind how Federer is supposedly "not a good volleyer". How can you be in the top ten of your time in terms of volleying and not be a good volleyer? If you had said "he isn't a great volleyer", you'd have a point. But saying Federer isn't a good volleyer is like saying "Sampras didn't have a good forehand".
Fed is in the top-10 of his time in terms of the serve-and-volley game.
Dont' know if this one's been mentioned before.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/te...urvives-bombardment-as-Karlovic-lets-fly.html
If that’s correct, then Karlovic had 153 unreturned serves altogether. The ATP has him serving on 198 points, so that would come to an unreturned rate of 77.3%.No one died out there, as Boris Becker once said, but one of Karlovic's aces thudded so hard into the scoreboard all the numbers flew off. It was like a lorry shedding its load on the M1, and took almost as long to clear up.
This took place with something like ace No 10 in a total of 51, which does not include the 102 occasions (officially described in the match statistics as "unreturned serves") when Bracciali barely got a racket on the ball.
It was a tribute to the Italian's refusal to surrender (not to mention one in the eye for national stereotypes) that it took him the thick end of 4½ hours to break the Croatian's serve, but when he eventually did, it gave him the match 6-7, 7-6, 3-6, 7-6, 12-10.
If the 102 unreturned include the 51 aces, then the unreturned rate would be 66.7%.
Anyway Karlovic held in his first 32 service games, a great run.
Overall Karlovic ended up winning 58% of his 2nd serve points. On 1st serve he won 85%.Good one
Must say it again for those who believe in Sampras or Federer or such things, prime Karlovic-serving prime i mean of course is biggest server in history
Best 1st serve ever + his 2nd isn´t as bad as people think - just it looks bad, because he can´d do much once he is in rally - but according to those statistics from this match he had probably a lot of 2nd serve unreturnables too, and on 1st serve i believe he was almost untouchable.
Fed is in the top-10 of his time in terms of the serve-and-volley game.
Ido not see Lew Hoad on the list, Art Larson said 12 months ago he had a faster serve than Roddick and very deceptive second serve, and when playing Conzales there was very little difference between the two.TomWillHere's mine:
1. Sampras
2. Ivanisevic
3. P. Gonzales
4. Roddick
5. Krajicek
6. Stich
7. Tanner
8. Newcombe
9. Tilden
10. Curren
11. Edberg
12. Federer
13. McEnroe
14. Becker
15. Dibley
16. Karlovic
17. Rusedski
18. Kramer
19. Fraser
20. Denton
21. Noah
22. Borg
23. D. Pate
24. S. Smith
I pick Sampras.
Purely for clutch factor. If I had a dollar for every time I saw him reel off 4 or 5 consecutive aces when down 0-40 or 15-40, I could buy a spaceship.
Lendl matches Borg
Here's mine:
1. Sampras
2. Ivanisevic
3. P. Gonzales
4. Roddick
5. Krajicek
6. Stich
7. Tanner
8. Newcombe
9. Tilden
10. Curren
11. Edberg
12. Federer
13. McEnroe
14. Becker
15. Dibley
16. Karlovic
17. Rusedski
18. Kramer
19. Fraser
20. Denton
21. Noah
22. Borg
23. D. Pate
24. S. Smith
hoodjem, I miss Vines in your list.
and few for sampras i did most recently
vs stich, wimb 92, 46 of 82 (9 aces) = 56.1 %
vs agassi, paris 94, 40 of 100 (19 aces) = 40 %
vs agassi, hannover 96, 21 of 38 (9 aces) = 55.3 %
vs agassi, monte carlo 98, 27 of 63 (6 aces) = 42.9 %
Just so you guys know I'm in the process of a massive update containing all the %'s of unreturned serves that have been listed here so far
Doh! Of course Vines must be on there, Kramer thought he had possibly the finest serve ever and that coming from a man who thought highly of his own serve but also witnessed several generations of players.
Doh! Of course Vines must be on there, Kramer thought he had possibly the finest serve ever and that coming from a man who thought highly of his own serve but also witnessed several generations of players.