Greatest Sportsperson of All Time?

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King Fed WW said:
Yes, swinging a club is physical exertion. What else would it be, imaginary?
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Damn, watch out or you'll get tired, lol. Going this route even slightly moving my index finger is physical exertion. I guess chess should be considered a sport on the same base because you move your arm from time to time.

King Fed WW said:
Since when was sports all about power and endurance, skill has always been important. From what I have read, you are a Nadal hater and maybe a Federer fan. Quite bizarre you place such a precedent on pure physicality.
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Sport = physicality, period. Regarding Federer - yeah you think he's relying on talent alone? The guy works his *** off in training, he just makes it look easy (BECAUSE he trains so hard).

King Fed WW said:
You can easily imagine a 70 yo winning a major? LOL, the oldest major was like 48. No way a guy is his 70s could win one. Yeah a guy in his 50s could and probably will. The fact players can still compete at an old age actaully just increases the strength and depth of the sport.
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It IS technically possible for a 70 year old to win a major championship in golf. In tennis, at least since it became more and more about endurance, winning big tournaments past the age of 35 is very rare.

King Fed WW said:
So I presume soccer isn't a sport, many older players beyond tennis age in that. While in Boxing Bernard Hopkins was world champion aged 49.
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1) Soccer isn't an individual sport.
2) There are substitutes.
3) Older guys, that is 35 or older usually play on positions which don't require a lot of running unless they are physical freaks of course.

So don't play smart on me. I didn't start the debate because of age but the physical part of golf. Work on your reading comprehension.
 
tennis_pro said:
Damn, watch out or you'll get tired, lol. Going this route even slightly moving my index finger is physical exertion. I guess chess should be considered a sport on the same base because you move your arm from time to time.
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So an average Joe could swing like a pro golfer?
Er, no.

tennis_pro said:
Sport = physicality, period. Regarding Federer - yeah you think he's relying on talent alone? The guy works his *** off in training, he just makes it look easy (BECAUSE he trains so hard).
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So golfers don't train at all, then?
Woods will be interested to hear that, I am sure.

tennis_pro said:
It IS technically possible for a 70 year old to win a major championship in golf. In tennis, at least since it became more and more about endurance, winning big tournaments past the age of 35 is very rare.
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It IS technically possible for a 70 year old to win a major championship in tennis (and in this mug field I feel it may even happen).
Both are about equally likely mate.

You're beaten here mate.
Golf is a sport, so deal with it.
Or show me your jacket from Augusta, and then I will concede in full.
 
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Golf is not a proper sport, but a game. There is no running or jumping and the ball even stands still. It does not involve physical exertion. In fact, pro chess is much, much more physically exerting.

The modern notions of competitive sports comes from the greek games. What the sports were/are about is really celebrating certain athletic virtues, much like the gods/heroes that exemplified the physical virtues: Hermes (speed), Hercules (strength), Aphrodite (stamina).

Proper sports measure and celebrate athletic virtues, and require at least some serious physical movement (running, jumping etc).

There is no problem in liking games, but they shouldn't be compared alongside athletic sports. That's a category mistake.
 
Re Chess, no it isn't a sport. Moving the piece requires no physical skill, someone else could move the piece for you.

I am aware Fed trains very hard, my issue is you seem to be focusing purely on the physical side of sport. But you also seem to lack understanding of the physical nature of golf.
 
tennis_pro said:
Yeah you're right I'd be EXHAUSTED after swinging that golf club a couple of times in 1 day.
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Swinging it properly requires very good arms, back, and shoulders.
It's not enough to swing the club, you have to hit the ball properly.

Golfers have surgeries you know.

I don't know why I'm replying to this 6/10 trolling, though.
 
Sysyphus said:
Golf is not a proper sport, but a game. There is no running or jumping and the ball even stands still. It does not involve physical exertion. In fact, pro chess is much, much more physically exerting.

The modern notions of competitive sports comes from the greek games. What the sports were/are about is really celebrating certain athletic virtues, much like the gods/heroes that exemplified the physical virtues: Hermes (speed), Hercules (strength), Aphrodite (stamina).

Proper sports measure and celebrate athletic virtues, and require at least some serious physical movement (running, jumping etc).

There is no problem in liking games, but they shouldn't be compared alongside athletic sports. That's a category mistake.
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But golf is athletic, swinging that club properly is darn hard and puts a lot of strain on your arms, shoulders, and back.

The ball stands still in shot put too, but that's definitely a sport.

Chess and snooker are good examples of games.
 
tennis_pro said:
Don't make me laugh.
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Okay, fine.

Try playing golf and not get a quadruple bogey without very strong arms, shoulders, and back.

You probably think golf is just putting, right?
Most people do.

In case it wasn't already extremely obvious, I actually get quite p!ssed at the disrespect shown to golf by many people.
In your case I will assume ignorance or lack of knowledge/interest in the sport, but some folks just bag it to no end.
 
Firstservingman said:
But golf is athletic, swinging that club properly is darn hard and puts a lot of strain on your arms, shoulders, and back.

The ball stands still in shot put too, but that's definitely a sport.

Chess and snooker are good examples of games.
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Working an office-job puts a lot of strain on back, shoulders and wrists as well.

But, no. Golf requires some modicum of bodily capability, but so does a lot of stuff that isn't athletic sport. In no way is it "darn hard", not even close when compared to real sports. And only the drives requires some explosiveness anyways. Most of the time, one is slacking around trying to put a little ball into a whole. And yes, I've played the game. I like it, but it isn't an athletic sport and it isn't exerting.

It doesn't measure the virtues that sports are supposed to, plain and simple. It's a recreational game.

Again, pro chess is more physically exerting than golf.
 
Sysyphus said:
Working an office-job puts a lot of strain on back, shoulders and wrists as well.

But, no. Golf requires some modicum of bodily capability, but so does a lot of stuff that isn't athletic sport. In no way is it "darn hard", not even close when compared to real sports. And only the drives requires some explosiveness anyways. Most of the time, one is slacking around trying to put a little ball into a whole. And yes, I've played the game. I like it, but it isn't an athletic sport and it isn't exerting.

It doesn't measure the virtues that sports are supposed to, plain and simple. It's a recreational game.

Again, pro chess is more physically exerting than golf.
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Pro golf is a lot more physically demanding than having a hit on the weekend though.
Most golfers who do well on the PGA have a ripped upper torso and arms.
Also the mental aspect is off the charts.

I believe Pro Golf has more than enough physicality to be considered a sport, although obviously not all sports are equal.

I can believe the bit about chess.
 
Firstservingman said:
So an average Joe could swing like a pro golfer?
Er, no.
So golfers don't train at all, then?
Woods will be interested to hear that, I am sure.
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Of course you require training to be good in any sport. But it still lacks the physical part. Unless you're telling me that pro golfers work out in the gym, lawl.

Firstservingman said:
It IS technically possible for a 70 year old to win a major championship in tennis (and in this mug field I feel it may even happen).
Both are about equally likely mate.
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You think a statistical 70-year old tennis player is as likely to win a major as a statistical 70-year old golf player?

I'm done with you.

Firstservingman said:
You're beaten here mate.
Golf is a sport, so deal with it.
Or show me your jacket from Augusta, and then I will concede in full
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What does this have to do with anything? Man, you're getting owned in this discussion.

I'll throw you a bone, though. Golf is recognized as a sport just because it's very popular and played my millions of people. But it's not technically a sport. Look at this - chess is an OFFICIAL sport (Olympic Committee).
 
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My definition of a sport is requiring some degree of physical exertion in addition to skill. Darts doesn't meet the physical exertion part of it...golf requires a full body swing...and while it's more on the "skill" side of things, the fact that you would probably work up a sweat and playing it and that it requires full body movement in "open space" makes me think it's fair to be considered a sport.

It's definitely not as "athletically" based as many sports, even including tennis. But one still needs full body coordination and you are exerting yourself in some way especially when driving/hitting irons or woods. Of course, fat out of shape guys can still be great golfers so it is low on the athletic scale.

This is all somewhat subjective. I would probably consider darts a game and bowling as well, golf a sport but borderline.

I think the greatest sportsman of the 20th century was probably Jim Thorpe or Michael Jordan.
 
Firstservingman said:
Okay, fine.

Try playing golf and not get a quadruple bogey without very strong arms, shoulders, and back.

You probably think golf is just putting, right?
Most people do.

In case it wasn't already extremely obvious, I actually get quite p!ssed at the disrespect shown to golf by many people.
In your case I will assume ignorance or lack of knowledge/interest in the sport, but some folks just bag it to no end.
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Why do you have a problem with golf not being recognized as a sport by many people? It's not like we're saying that golf doesn't require any skill - it does, maybe even more than tennis as every milimeter matters when swinging a golf club. It just shouldn't be called a sport but a game instead.

There's some common misconception that "it's not a sport = doesn't require any skill". Completely false.
 
tennis_pro said:
Of course you require training to be good in any sport. But it still lacks the physical part. Unless you're telling me that pro golfers work out in the gym, lawl.
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It is physical.
You could not be a pro golfer without a serious upper torso, back, and arms.
You are kidding yourself if you think this is not the case.
I never said it was even close to being as physical as tennis, but it's a sport all the same.

As for the gym part:
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/tiger-woods-working-out-2014-9

tennis_pro said:
You think a statistical 70-year old tennis player is as likely to win a major as a statistical 70-year old golf player?

I'm done with you.
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Neither are at all likely.
They are not happening.
I thought I made that obvious.


tennis_pro said:
What does this have to do with anything? Man, you're getting owned in this discussion.
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The Masters didn't turn out as you planned, did it?
Maybe you should work out your arms and shoulders more like Woods does.

But this discussion is a joke anyway.
 
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tennis_pro said:
Why do you have a problem with golf not being recognized as a sport by many people? It's not like we're saying that golf doesn't require any skill - it does, maybe even more than tennis as every milimeter matters when swinging a golf club. It just shouldn't be called a sport but a game instead.

There's some common misconception that "it's not a sport = doesn't require any skill". Completely false.
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There is sufficient physicality for it to be a sport.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/tiger-woods-working-out-2014-9
Tiger works out. Too much, apparently.

It's because folks keep saying golf requires no physicality.
That's quite disrespectful to golfers who put in a lot of hard work.
 
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tennis_pro said:
You're not gonna convince me.

People work out for everything these days to maximize their chances even if it's not neccessary (they don't wanna take any chances). Things have gotten so crazy I even read somewhere that Korean computer games pros have special diets.[/QUOTE]

lmao :)
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tennis_pro said:
You're not gonna convince me.
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I feared as much. Agree to disagree it is.

I just feel golf always gets unfairly ****ged for requiring no physical effort, and being a golf fan/part-time golfer myself, it's not nice to hear, as I believe that it clearly does.

tennis_pro said:
People work out for everything these days to maximize their chances even if it's not necessary (they don't wanna take any chances). Things have gotten so crazy I even read somewhere that Korean computer games pros have special diets.
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I'd believe that in a heartbeat.
 
Firstservingman said:
I feared as much. Agree to disagree it is.

I just feel golf always gets unfairly ****ged for requiring no physical effort, and being a golf fan/part-time golfer myself, it's not nice to hear, as I believe that it clearly does.


I'd believe that in a heartbeat.
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golf certainly requires physical exertion and full body coordination.
 
tipsa...don'tlikehim! said:
is snooker a sport?
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Hard to say-it is more a game of tactics & mental strength than physical. Having said that the majority of players have kept themselves trim & I do believe weight has stopped some players from achieving more-Stephen Lee in recent times before his ban & Bill Werbeniuk in the distant past, as it seems to detract from them in the longer tournaments. Also now the tour schedule is hectic so a physical edge probably helps greatly.
 
irishnadalfan1983 said:
For me when we refer to sportsman I believe behaviour (just my opinion) off the field/court comes into play also - hence I would rule out the likes of Woods/Phelps/Ali.

For me Fed & Rafa are up there.
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Eh, wrong. Ali was incredible off the ring. And he did more than 99,9% of the sportsmen have ever done off the field, including Federer and Nadal.

I mean, he actually did something. He wasn't just a "PR guy".

He's top 3 for sure.
 
irishnadalfan1983 said:
For me when we refer to sportsman I believe behaviour (just my opinion) off the field/court comes into play also - hence I would rule out the likes of Woods/Phelps/Ali.

For me Fed & Rafa are up there.
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Don't let Mustard hear that, sex offender Taylor would struck! Also what are your complaints with Ali? Association with a racist organization?
 
The Green Mile said:
Which player has the most wins against him? It's probably Raymond Van Barneveld right? I know he has around 10 wins against Phil.
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Yes. Barney has 10 wins on TV against Taylor, compared to 31 losses on TV to Taylor. So Barney has had the most match wins against Taylor, on TV or overall, yet has mostly been dominated by Taylor.

I know these forums tend to love head-to-heads, so here's another:

This is the Taylor vs. Barneveld TV head-to-head:

Taylor wins in red
Barney wins in blue
Draws in black

1999 Champion vs. Champion (legs): Phil Taylor 21-10 Raymond van Barneveld (1-0 Taylor)
2005 Masters of Darts RR (sets): Phil Taylor 4-0 Raymond van Barneveld (2-0 Taylor)
2005 Masters of Darts SF (sets): Phil Taylor 5-2 Raymond van Barneveld (3-0 Taylor)
2006 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 7-7 Raymond van Barneveld (3-0 Taylor, 1 draw)
2006 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 8-6 Raymond van Barneveld (4-0 Taylor, 1 draw)
2006 UK Open QF (legs): Raymond van Barneveld 11-10 Phil Taylor (4-1 Taylor, 1 draw)
2006 Las Vegas Desert Classic SF (sets): Raymond van Barneveld 4-3 Phil Taylor (4-2 Taylor, 1 draw)
2006 World Grand Prix R16 (sets): Phil Taylor 3-1 Raymond van Barneveld (5-2 Taylor, 1 draw)
2007 World Championship F (sets): Raymond van Barneveld 7-6 Phil Taylor (5-3 Taylor, 1 draw)
2007 Masters of Darts RR (sets): Raymond van Barneveld 3-0 Phil Taylor (5-4 Taylor, 1 draw)
2007 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 8-6 Raymond van Barneveld (6-4 Taylor, 1 draw)
2007 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 8-5 Raymond van Barneveld (7-4 Taylor, 1 draw)
2007 International Darts League R16G (legs): Phil Taylor 7-4 Raymond van Barneveld (8-4 Taylor, 1 draw)
2007 World Darts Challenge RR (legs): Raymond van Barneveld 4-1 Phil Taylor (8-5 Taylor, 1 draw)
2007 US Open F (sets): Phil Taylor 4-1 Raymond van Barneveld (9-5 Taylor, 1 draw)
2007 UK Open QF (legs): Raymond van Barneveld 11-4 Phil Taylor (9-6 Taylor, 1 draw)
2008 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 8-3 Raymond van Barneveld (10-6 Taylor, 1 draw)
2008 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 8-2 Raymond van Barneveld (11-6 Taylor, 1 draw)
2008 UK Open QF (legs): Raymond van Barneveld 10-9 Phil Taylor (11-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2008 World Grand Prix F (sets): Phil Taylor 6-2 Raymond van Barneveld (12-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2009 World Championship F (sets): Phil Taylor 7-1 Raymond van Barneveld (13-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2009 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 8-4 Raymond van Barneveld (14-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2009 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 8-2 Raymond van Barneveld (15-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2009 Las Vegas Desert Classic F (legs): Phil Taylor 13-11 Raymond van Barneveld (16-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2009 World Grand Prix F (sets): Phil Taylor 6-3 Raymond van Barneveld (17-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2009 Grand Slam of Darts SF (legs): Phil Taylor 16-6 Raymond van Barneveld (18-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2010 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 8-2 Raymond van Barneveld (19-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2010 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 8-2 Raymond van Barneveld (20-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2010 World Matchplay F (legs): Phil Taylor 18-12 Raymond van Barneveld (21-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2011 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 8-3 Raymond van Barneveld (22-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2011 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 8-3 Raymond van Barneveld (23-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2011 Premier League 3rd place (legs): Phil Taylor 8-6 Raymond van Barneveld (24-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2012 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 8-4 Raymond van Barneveld (25-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2012 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 8-3 Raymond van Barneveld (26-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2013 World Championship SF (sets): Phil Taylor 6-4 Raymond van Barneveld (27-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2013 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 7-3 Raymond van Barneveld (28-7 Taylor, 1 draw)
2013 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 6-6 Raymond van Barneveld (28-7 Taylor, 2 draws)
2013 Premier League SF (legs): Phil Taylor 8-4 Raymond van Barneveld (29-7 Taylor, 2 draws)
2013 Players Championship QF (legs): Phil Taylor 9-2 Raymond van Barneveld (30-7 Taylor, 2 draws)
2014 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 6-6 Raymond van Barneveld (30-7 Taylor, 3 draws)
2014 Premier League RR (legs): Phil Taylor 6-6 Raymond van Barneveld (30-7 Taylor, 4 draws)
2014 Premier League SF (legs): Raymond van Barneveld 8-5 Phil Taylor (30-8 Taylor, 4 draws)
2015 World Championship SF (sets): Phil Taylor 6-2 Raymond van Barneveld (31-8 Taylor, 4 draws)
2015 Premier League RR (legs): Raymond van Barneveld 7-4 Phil Taylor (31-9 Taylor, 4 draws)
2015 Premier League RR (legs): Raymond van Barneveld 7-2 Phil Taylor (31-10 Taylor, 4 draws)

King Fed WW said:
Darts is a sport, but I understand the debate. However to say golf is not a sport is just embarrassing.
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They are both sports. I never wanted this thread to go in the direction of a debate about what's a sport and what isn't. My point is to emphasise how dominant Taylor has been as a champion and as a winner. It's about the winning mentality and the winning ability.

King Fed WW said:
Regarding Phil Taylor and his physique, it is said he is the perfect height for darts while his weight helps his balance.
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All-time great players like Bristow, Lowe, Anderson and Barneveld are very different in height and physique to Taylor.

King Fed WW said:
Some have attributed his 2003 World Championship defeat due to being slimmer than normal, distorting his balance. All inflicted by a crash diet.
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There is something in that, but I wouldn't overstate it. Part was in the form of his life and ready to beat Taylor at that time, while Taylor looked vulnerable during the 2003 World Championship, despite winning all the TV events he had played in during 2002.
 
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In Formula 1, I would go for Ayrton Senna or Jim Clark. Their speed in the car was just out of this world.

In boxing, I think Roberto Duran is up there, especially before the "No Mas" incident. While Duran still had a few vintage performances and wins afterwards, he never had the same intimidation factor after "No Mas" where he seemed indestructible (72-1 record, with the only loss twice avenged by KO).
 
Firstservingman said:
And those don't require the hand-eye coordination, hands, or especially mental aspects that golf requires.
Also boxing, NFL are thug sports IMO and I have little respect for guys who beat each other up or ram each other's a**es in sweaty tights on a muddy field.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that front.


That's why this thread isn't about the greatest athlete ever, and I instead made it the greatest sportsperson ever.
Sport is about more than just brawn.
If it was greatest athlete then those boxers or MMA guys would win hands-down, but they are thugs, so I wouldn't call them the greatest sportsperson.

Federer is the best mix IMO, or Nadal.
Tennis is the most physically demanding non-thuggery sport by far IMO, requiring every part of your body.
Federer is also a genius, which is a big part of this.

But Golf, Tennis >>>> Thug sports IMO.

Swimming I can respect too, but Phelps' medal count is inflated as heck.
Federer has one opportunity for a medal, Phelps has oodles.
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I can only assume you are still 15 or 16 by how blatantly you disrespect other sports. The level of your prejudice is really shining through here. To call people who practice the sweet science, "thugs" just shows your own level of appreciation for sport, and how narrow-minded your own view is. Not sure whether I'm supposed to be taking you seriously at all with a comment like that. You are pretty much THAT guy at the tennis club who turns his nose up to any sport you can't play with a polo shirt and an Omega watch. That's really a horrible and elitist outlook on sport. No surprise you are a fan of golf and tennis.
 
tennis_pro said:
Yeah you're right I'd be EXHAUSTED after swinging that golf club a couple of times in 1 day.
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Playing 18 holes is tiring, you clearly don't play/know what you are you talking about. As if that's a prerequisite anyway. Baseball doesn't exhaust you, neither does necessarily a tennis match.
 
Sysyphus said:
Working an office-job puts a lot of strain on back, shoulders and wrists as well.

But, no. Golf requires some modicum of bodily capability, but so does a lot of stuff that isn't athletic sport. In no way is it "darn hard", not even close when compared to real sports. And only the drives requires some explosiveness anyways. Most of the time, one is slacking around trying to put a little ball into a whole. And yes, I've played the game. I like it, but it isn't an athletic sport and it isn't exerting.

It doesn't measure the virtues that sports are supposed to, plain and simple. It's a recreational game.

Again, pro chess is more physically exerting than golf.
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Golf can be played recreationally, so can tennis, hockey, basketball, etc. However, that is a far cry from pro golf. I would not argue that golfers are elite athletes. I would also not argue that tennis players are, so who really cares? Running and jumping doesn't make something a sport.
 
Some of the suggestions here are laughable to say the least. Ice hockey? Baseball? Darts? American Football? Golf? Basketball? Get a grip, please

The only truly global sport is football (real football btw, not that awful circus some call a sport). Do you realize that over a billion people around the world play football, yes over a billion, most just for fun, but they play it anyway. That means when you compare the competition to rose to the very top of world football players like Pele, Di Steffano, Maradona, Cruyff, Messi, Ronaldo, etc faced with the competion that for instance Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan faced, there is no comparison at all. Probably more people play football around the world than all of the other sports combined.

Pele is the greatest, 3 time world champion. But the best is Maradona, that guy was from another galaxy
 
ARFED said:
Some of the suggestions here are laughable to say the least. Ice hockey? Baseball? Darts? American Football? Golf? Basketball? Get a grip, please

The only truly global sport is football (real football btw, not that awful circus some call a sport). Do you realize that over a billion people around the world play football, yes over a billion, most just for fun, but they play it anyway. That means when you compare the competition to rose to the very top of world football players like Pele, Di Steffano, Maradona, Cruyff, Messi, Ronaldo, etc faced with the competion that for instance Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan faced, there is no comparison at all. Probably more people play football around the world than all of the other sports combined.

Pele is the greatest, 3 time world champion. But the best is Maradona, that guy was from another galaxy
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Here we go, another sports elitist who fancies his favourite sport and all those who play it, above everyone else.
 
Inanimate_object said:
I can only assume you are still 15 or 16 by how blatantly you disrespect other sports. The level of your prejudice is really shining through here. To call people who practice the sweet science, "thugs" just shows your own level of appreciation for sport, and how narrow-minded your own view is. Not sure whether I'm supposed to be taking you seriously at all with a comment like that. You are pretty much THAT guy at the tennis club who turns his nose up to any sport you can't play with a polo shirt and an Omega watch. That's really a horrible and elitist outlook on sport. No surprise you are a fan of golf and tennis.
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I can't say I'm a fan of folks beating up other folks.
Outside of the ring, that's a criminal offence, and a serious one at that.
Are they talented? Extremely.
Are they highly skilled and trained athletes? Absolutely.
But at the end of the day they are literally beating each other up.
Not to mention most of them are complete a**holes outside the ring anyway.
Many are convicted criminals (usually assault, surprise surprise), and they're basically making a career out of putting others in hospital.
I absolutely in no way respect that, and I make no apologies for calling them what they are.

Rugby, AFL, fine, the injuries are only a by-product, even if it's still horrible.
But in boxing, the goal is literally to knock out your opponent.
It is literally to assault your opponent.
I don't even understand how it's legal.
Sweet science? Please.

That Fraud Mayweather guy has to be one of the biggest buffoons I've ever seen.
Maybe he's just had his brain cells destroyed by fighting, but the guy is a criminal, a complete a**hole, and yet he is still paraded around as "great".
Would you let that complete loser of a person near your family or children?
Didn't think so.
Federer on the other hand, is a kind, gentle person, and one of the most respected people in the world, and a gentleman.
A far cry from a criminal thug.
 
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Firstservingman said:
I can't say I'm a fan of folks beating up other folks.
Outside of the ring, that's a criminal offence, and a serious one at that.
Are they talented? Extremely.
Are they highly skilled and trained athletes? Absolutely.
But at the end of the day they are literally beating each other up.
Not to mention most of them are complete a**holes outside the ring anyway.
Many are convicted criminals (usually assault, surprise surprise), and they're basically making a career out of putting others in hospital.
I absolutely in no way respect that, and I make no apologies for calling them what they are.

Rugby, AFL, fine, the injuries are only a by-product, even if it's still horrible.
But in boxing, the goal is literally to knock out your opponent.
It is literally to assault your opponent.
I don't even understand how it's legal.
Sweet science? Please.
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Your ignorance is really unbelievable. You seem to know nothing about boxing or boxers yet have no problem making idiotic statements like it is a thug sport for criminals not worthy of respect or legalization. I knew it was a little empty between the ears, but this is something so laughably prejudiced it makes me wonder if you are trolling or not.

Boxing requires a level of focus patience, coordination, cardio, endurance and fine hand-eye coordination that is seldom matched in other sports. You're making yourself look really stupid spouting this drivel about a sport you clearly are so prejudiced towards. Stick with your upper socioeconomic class sports and stay clear of any sports which one cannot wear polos and slacks to. Your comment is not worthy of a sports fan let alone an adult.
 
Inanimate_object said:
Your ignorance is really unbelievable. You seem to know nothing about boxing or boxers yet have no problem making idiotic statements like it is a thug sport for criminals not worthy of respect or legalization. I knew it was a little empty between the ears, but this is something so laughably prejudiced it makes me wonder if you are trolling or not.

Boxing requires a level of focus patience, coordination, cardio, endurance and fine hand-eye coordination that is seldom matched in other sports. You're making yourself look really stupid spouting this drivel about a sport you clearly are so prejudiced towards. Stick with your upper socioeconomic class sports and stay clear of any sports which one cannot wear polos and slacks to. Your comment is not worthy of a sports fan let alone an adult.
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I don't deny any of the skills etc. you mentioned that boxing requires.
It might even be the toughest sport all around, I would not argue with that.
But that's not my issue, it's what they're doing with those skills which is the issue here.
They are assaulting each other, period.
I know enough about boxing to know you punch the other person to win/get points.
Pointing out the facts is not drivel.

It's not "great" to be the best in the world at assault, and yes, it's assault, even if it looks pretty.

Ali or whoever could easily be the best sportsperson ever, but absolutely no way could he be the greatest.
His claim to fame is assault.

Federer, Woods, Pele, Maradona etc. win without committing crimes.

You can't deny what they're doing by saying I know nothing about the sport.
I do know about boxing.
And I know enough to know that it is highly glorified thuggery.

Mayweather, apart from being a cheat, is also a thug and a buffoon.
Some boxers (not him) have honour and class, but they're still participating in a classless sport.

I have more respect for martial arts, that has very strict codes of honour and conduct, but even that's still fighting.
 
ARFED said:
Some of the suggestions here are laughable to say the least. Ice hockey? Baseball? Darts? American Football? Golf? Basketball? Get a grip, please

The only truly global sport is football (real football btw, not that awful circus some call a sport). Do you realize that over a billion people around the world play football, yes over a billion, most just for fun, but they play it anyway. That means when you compare the competition to rose to the very top of world football players like Pele, Di Steffano, Maradona, Cruyff, Messi, Ronaldo, etc faced with the competion that for instance Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan faced, there is no comparison at all. Probably more people play football around the world than all of the other sports combined.

Pele is the greatest, 3 time world champion. But the best is Maradona, that guy was from another galaxy
Click to expand...

Yeah but you don't seem to understand that talent is dilluted by the amount of people who play football. The best US athletes don't care, Africa, Asia, and Australia produce little of note. It's still a sport that is largely relegated to a handful of European countries and a few South American countries when it comes to requisite youth infrastructure. There are 125 players in the world with a PGA tour card, the competition is stiff.
 
Firstservingman said:
Ali or whoever could easily be the best sportsperson ever, but absolutely no way could he be the greatest.
His claim to fame is assault.
Click to expand...

You are clearly trolling at this point. I don't believe even someone as thick headed as you could believe what you are writing. Ali's claim to fame is ASSAULT? Wow, there are so many things I want to say about a brat so damn aristocratic and snobbish that he would believe that. But for your mental health and my own I'll refrain. Your level of prejudice is out of this world.
 
Firstservingman said:
I don't deny any of the skills etc. you mentioned that boxing requires.
It might even be the toughest sport all around, I would not argue with that.
But that's not my issue, it's what they're doing with those skills which is the issue here.
They are assaulting each other, period.
I know enough about boxing to know you punch the other person to win/get points.
Pointing out the facts is not drivel.

It's not "great" to be the best in the world at assault, and yes, it's assault, even if it looks pretty.

Ali or whoever could easily be the best sportsperson ever, but absolutely no way could he be the greatest.
His claim to fame is assault.

Federer, Woods, Pele, Maradona etc. win without committing crimes.

You can't deny what they're doing by saying I know nothing about the sport.
I do know about boxing.
And I know enough to know that it is highly glorified thuggery.

Mayweather, apart from being a cheat, is also a thug and a buffoon.
Some boxers (not him) have honour and class, but they're still participating in a classless sport.

I have more respect for martial arts, that has very strict codes of honour and conduct, but even that's still fighting.
Click to expand...

Calling boxing assault is clearly false, that's dishonest. If you were to tackle somebody in ordinary life, that would also be assault. A poor slide tackle in every day life would also be considered assault. It has the potential to be brutal but you shouldn't dismiss it because of that. There is a beauty to that struggle, to the will power and resolve required to be elite. My bigger issue though is people talk about Ali but ignore somebody like Ray Robinson, Joe Louis and so forth. Even a guy like Jack Johnson had to deal with a lot, he was the first black heavyweight champion, at a point when they weren't even allowed to be playing other sports with whites.
 
Last edited:
Firstservingman said:
I don't deny any of the skills etc. you mentioned that boxing requires.
It might even be the toughest sport all around, I would not argue with that.
But that's not my issue, it's what they're doing with those skills which is the issue here.
They are assaulting each other, period.
I know enough about boxing to know you punch the other person to win/get points.
Pointing out the facts is not drivel.

It's not "great" to be the best in the world at assault, and yes, it's assault, even if it looks pretty.

Ali or whoever could easily be the best sportsperson ever, but absolutely no way could he be the greatest.
His claim to fame is assault.

Federer, Woods, Pele, Maradona etc. win without committing crimes.

You can't deny what they're doing by saying I know nothing about the sport.
I do know about boxing.
And I know enough to know that it is highly glorified thuggery.

Mayweather, apart from being a cheat, is also a thug and a buffoon.
Some boxers (not him) have honour and class, but they're still participating in a classless sport.

I have more respect for martial arts, that has very strict codes of honour and conduct, but even that's still fighting.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry FSM, but you are fully and totally wrong in your post.

And I mean, you simply cannot be more wrong.

Plus, Federer, Nadal, Woods, Maradona and etc all combined have done a lot less than Ali has done off the field by himself. He is what they call "larger than life".

PS: You know I respect you, but for your own sake, please relax with your Federer obsession.
 
Last edited:
Maybe it's the fact that I hate Mayweather, he is a legitimate criminal, outside the ring, and he's who I think of when I think of boxing.

But I couldn't call myself a fan of the sport, I just couldn't.

Boxers that are good people, fight with honour, and are not criminals, I can tolerate, and I'm sure that a good percentage of them are just like this.
Pacquiano seems to be one of them.

And @Inanimate_Object - Disliking contact sports is not prejudiced or snobbish, why would you think that?
So if I dislike strawberry milk, does that me me prejudiced or snobbish, because I will only drink chocolate milk?

If I lay out why I dislike strawberry milk, and you disagree with my analysis, you're going to attack me for it, labeling me as being a certain way?
 
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