grip change and technique change

chalkflewup said:
Pistol was arguably the GOAT and his serve made him almost impossible to beat. Conversely, Nadal has had an average little career hitting with spin. So throw Flat Pete and Rafa out and name 10 top "current" pros hitting a flat ball having success against topspinners.
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Federer, Del Potro, Ivanovic...
 
Tennis_Stringman said:
Sampras also had an Eastern grip and he didn't have too much trouble with the topspinners. He hit a very forceful ball from point A to B. Many of the NYC Russian juniors hit with an Eastern forehand.
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Speaking of Russians and eastern grips, the girl from OH # 1 in National 12's uses eastern grip. It must be working.
 
TennisEko said:
Yep Federer uses eastern with shape...
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Pointless to debate you on Fed's grip BUT my point is, he hits with shape. Nadal hits with shape. Murray hits with shape. Ferrer hits with shape. The great ones flatten the execution shots.

If you want to talk about 12s hitting flat balls, that's a different game.
 
chalkflewup said:
Pointless to debate you on Fed's grip BUT my point is, he hits with shape. Nadal hits with shape. Murray hits with shape. Ferrer hits with shape. The great ones flatten the execution shots.

If you want to talk about 12s hitting flat balls, that's a different game.
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Federer and Dimitrov both use eastern forehand grip.
One of the oldest and youngest players on ATP

sampras, delpotro, ivanovic,
 
I think in the future you won't be seeing the women hitting so flat with those huge backswings.I think the future greats on the w.t.a will hit more leverage based ground strokes with a ton of shape on the ball.The days of sharapova with the huge backswings are soon to be gone.I think you will see a lot more forehands like henin and stosur.Big backswings won't cut it in the future of women's pro tennis.The game is gonna get way too fast.
 
The top of Fed's grip is eastern but he then slides the butt of his hand to a semi-western position. As Fed says he uses his own grip. Look closely.
 
andfor said:
The top of Fed's grip is eastern but he then slides the butt of his hand to a semi-western position. As Fed says he uses his own grip. Look closely.
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Agree with you. And he hits with shape. You can't dominate the sport the way he has hitting flat all the time.
 
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TCF said:
Fed uses the grip yet his average forehand generates 2700 rpms. Thats way more than Sampras at 1700.

Fed happens to be able to generate tons of spin while using that grip. But Fed is not hitting a flat ball by any stretch. Fed's backhand has the highest rpms ever measured at 5300. He does that to bring the ball down in the court.

Tennis at that level weeds out what does not work. Flat works in certain situations, but topspin is what is used the majority of the time. Top ATP players need spin to bring their wicked shots down in bounds. The perfect blend of spin and pace, coupled with today's technology, makes it hard to see the game returning to a flat forehand game.
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Federer hits with a lot of topspin on his forehand. Huge spin. That's been the biggest change in the men's game...pounding forehands with tons of spin to bring the ball back into the court. Doesn't matter what grip you use. Gotta have spin. The Europeans (Spain etc) are to blame no?

Agassi had eastern-ish/semi-western forehand grip no? I can't remember. Times have changed since Agassi's day. Heck I even hit with a ton more spin than I did 15 years ago. And I'm not sure why...must be racquets and string.
 
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hi GA tennis can i ask approx. how much you spend on coaching for your daughter per year or the fees these academies charges? i have a freind who is serious about developing his kid and wants to know what he's getting into.

it sounds like you found a great coach and i agree the coach is right about changing the grip and takeback; full western grip will only limit your daughter's game later on so its best to change it now rather than later. and the stuff the coach says about having 2 forehands etc. are interesting and kinda out there but good food for thought i guess.
 
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tennishotdog said:
hi GA tennis can i ask approx. how much you spend on coaching for your daughter per year or the fees these academies charges? i have a freind who is serious about developing his kid and wants to know what he's getting into.

it sounds like you found a great coach and i agree the coach is right about changing the grip and takeback; full western grip will only limit your daughter's game later on so its best to change it now rather than later. and the stuff the coach says about having 2 forehands etc. are interesting and kinda out there but good food for thought i guess.
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WAY TOO MUCH!!!!! Its really hard to coach your own child especially living in a small town where we are the only people that play tennis. She doesnt have any of her friends at school or our neighborhood play tennis. I mainly started taking her to drills an hour away so she could socialize and have fun playing tennis. People are always saying why dont you coach your daughter? I do coach her but with a 10 year old girl it gets boring just working with daddy everyday.I felt like i knew enough to get her really good. I know i could have been her only coach and she would have gotten a full division 1 scholarship. I just knew i didnt know what it took to make a money making pro and thats what she said she wanted to be since she was 5. I met her new coach this summer and knew then that he was the one. Its really expensive right now 250.00 an hour or 800.00 for the homeschool program which is 4 hours a day mon thru thur.Her coach will only let 6 girls in his program only under 10 years old.He now has five girls and we are trying everything we can to get up there to fill the spot.The great thing about her coach is that he is trying to empower me.He is teaching me sooooo much because he says the parent is the most important peice of the puzzle.Im looking at this next year like im working on my phd in tennis.Im spending alot of money but im learning his system which has a proven track record. My goal is that if we cant move up there at least i will have learned his system this year and next year just go once or twice a month for private lessons for like a shot in the arm. Im not spending 250 an hour just for my daughters lesson im also learning priceless information.I look at it as an investment so now i will really be able to help my just turned 7 year old son who is gonna be a beast!! I KNOW IM CRAZY!!!! I CANT HELP IT I WANT THE BEST FOR MY KIDS!!!! NO WHAT IFS NO REGRETS!!!
 
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^^^key phrase "the process".^^^

Learning more about being process focused versus outcome focused is so key. That goes across many aspects outside of tennis. School, work, music, art, life.

Get Jeff Greenwald's Fearless Tennis.

Good luck
 
TCF said:
TennisEko, I think you keep changing the debate. No one argues that the eastern grip is not used by some good players, or a hybrid between eastern and semi western. That is obvious to all of us.

But you were saying the flat ball game was going to come back and replace the current topspin game. Different debate. Fed is able to deliver 2700 rpms using his grip, and 5300 rpms on his backhand. He generates a boatload of spin.

So these top players who use that grip still rely on tons of spin, they do not hit flat. So which claim are you making? That the flat game is coming back or more players using closer to an eastern grip yet still generating tons of spin? Those are 2 very different claims.
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I am talking about the grip, Eastern....making a comeback very soon.
 
t135 said:
Federer hits with a lot of topspin on his forehand. Huge spin. That's been the biggest change in the men's game...pounding forehands with tons of spin to bring the ball back into the court. Doesn't matter what grip you use. Gotta have spin. The Europeans (Spain etc) are to blame no?

Agassi had eastern-ish/semi-western forehand grip no? I can't remember. Times have changed since Agassi's day. Heck I even hit with a ton more spin than I did 15 years ago. And I'm not sure why...must be racquets and string.
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Definitely spin is needed, you can do it with Eastern or any grip,
 
ga tennis said:
WAY TOO MUCH!!!!! Its really hard to coach your own child especially living in a small town where we are the only people that play tennis. She doesnt have any of her friends at school or our neighborhood play tennis. I mainly started taking her to drills an hour away so she could socialize and have fun playing tennis. People are always saying why dont you coach your daughter? I do coach her but with a 10 year old girl it gets boring just working with daddy everyday.I felt like i knew enough to get her really good. I know i could have been her only coach and she would have gotten a full division 1 scholarship. I just knew i didnt know what it took to make a money making pro and thats what she said she wanted to be since she was 5. I met her new coach this summer and knew then that he was the one. Its really expensive right now 250.00 an hour or 800.00 for the homeschool program which is 4 hours a day mon thru thur.Her coach will only let 6 girls in his program only under 10 years old.He now has five girls and we are trying everything we can to get up there to fill the spot.The great thing about her coach is that he is trying to empower me.He is teaching me sooooo much because he says the parent is the most important peice of the puzzle.Im looking at this next year like im working on my phd in tennis.Im spending alot of money but im learning his system which has a proven track record. My goal is that if we cant move up there at least i will have learned his system this year and next year just go once or twice a month for private lessons for like a shot in the arm. Im not spending 250 an hour just for my daughters lesson im also learning priceless information.I look at it as an investment so now i will really be able to help my just turned 7 year old son who is gonna be a beast!! I KNOW IM CRAZY!!!! I CANT HELP IT I WANT THE BEST FOR MY KIDS!!!! NO WHAT IFS NO REGRETS!!!
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Wow that is an imressive amount of dough you are shelling out. Honestly I think $250 an hour is way 2 much. How long have you been doing this & what kind of results are you getting? What is your daughters ranking? I admire it I just really hope that you are getting what you are paying for....
 
TennisEko said:
Wow that is an imressive amount of dough you are shelling out. Honestly I think $250 an hour is way 2 much. How long have you been doing this & what kind of results are you getting? What is your daughters ranking? I admire it I just really hope that you are getting what you are paying for....
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Just doing it for the past two months.She is 10 so we arent really that concerned about ranking.She has jumped 40 spots in the last two months.She has placed in all three of the last level 2 12 and under tournaments.She has also won one and lost in the finals of those tournaments in doubles.Her technique is what has really changed.She went from full western with a huge backswing to now she is hitting her forehand like Henin and Federer.
 
ga tennis said:
Just doing it for the past two months.She is 10 so we arent really that concerned about ranking.She has jumped 40 spots in the last two months.She has placed in all three of the last level 2 12 and under tournaments.She has also won one and lost in the finals of those tournaments in doubles.Her technique is what has really changed.She went from full western with a huge backswing to now she is hitting her forehand like Henin and Federer.
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I like that. If you can afford it and see results...way to go. Keep up the good work, if you can play points with your girl keep doing that. The pore point play she does the more smarter she will play. Just drilling and technique work will only get you so far. Put her in pressure situations playing points and work on her decision making. Lots of kids can hit but only few hit smart...
 
TCF said:
GA....you know I have you back on this but just some cautions from my experience over the years. Make sure you evaluate that your girl is putting the same into tennis that you are. For example, you are obviously putting a lot of your income into tennis. You could instead have taken her to $50/hour lessons and bought yourself that convertible 68 Mustang you wanted when you got older. You are putting her tennis above your own wants.

Is she reciprocating? By that I mean does she watch tennis channel with an obsession or Icarly instead? Do you see her outside on the Bozu getting some extra work in on her own because some girl at tennis training was a tad more balanced than she was? Does she bring up tennis at dinner to the point it annoys mom?

Kids are sponges. If they see the parent obsessing that the strings have to be perfect, the coach has to be the best, the hotel for the tournaments has to be perfect, they begin to focus on the things and not the process. That can be limiting long term and lead to excuse making.

I would rather bet on the kid with not so perfect strokes, who hits in the hot sun for 2 hours on the wall while pretending to be winning the US Open in her mind....then the kid with the fancy coached strokes who does not even mention tennis until the next time they have to go to a lesson or tournament.

All I suggest is that you monitor the situation and make sure the sacrifice and tennis obsession is mutual.
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She is right where she needs to be right now.She isnt watching the tennis channel only.She is still just a little girl.She likes watching tennis and I Carly.I think at 10 she needs balance.I dont want her to go tennis crazy at such a young age.We have such a long road ahead.Too much tennis talk too early can lead to her getting tired of it.When were off the court we try not to talk about tennis too much in our house.
 
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ga tennis said:
My 10 year old daughter has started working with a new coach.He has changed her grip and her takeback.She went from having one of the biggest forehands of any 10 year old to now she is having trouble controling the ball.She has done really well this summer in the 12 and under division.I WAS JUST WANDERING DO YOU GUYS THINK I SHOULD KEEP HER OUT OF TOURNAMENTS FOR A WHILE AND LET HER WORK ON THIS OR SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LET HER PLAY??Im just not wanting to hurt her confidence by putting her into competition to quick after such a drastic change.I am also concerned that if i put her in tournaments now she might revert back to her old ways.
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Heath did the right thing for your little girl, it would have caught up to her at some point.
 
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You've got to let the player a lot of freedom to develop a grip they are most comfortable with in order to get maximum performance..Sometimes it might be the best gip for one kid but really won't work for another. hat is the problem with academies like Macci's or most of them where it's like a factory they try use same molding for evreryone and therefore out of thousands of kids we have very few champions. We need custom training that is built around theee player not the coach...
 
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$250/hr in Atlanta?

I've used some UTA teachers, some better than others, and I can't see how he could be 4x more worthwhile than their best teachers.

My son is only 7 so perhaps your daughter is older and therefore can absorb more. I know it would be overkill for my son.
 
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