GSG/MEP gets beatdown by BOSS of Atlanta 4.5

[GuyClinch]

Okay - I think Ian wins easily.. Back to my original prediction..

I have seen Boss of Atlanta beaten by another player on the channel.. It's great that tennis troll is finally getting MEP some good opponents. I guess its hard where MEP lives. He must live in an area that has weaker 4.5s judging by how well he did in 4.5 play but how poorly he does against another 4.5 with a less impressive record.

 

[zipplock]

It looks to me like @GSG was trying new things AND was having an off day. I counted 2 missed chips and a missed lob in the FIRST game. Also, trying more topspin and two hands off the right side.

Don't listen to the haters, keep playing your style. You don't have change anything. You do you!!!

 

[cha cha]

Don't listen to the haters, keep playing your style. You don't have change anything. You do you!!!

 

[GSG]

For some context, this match took place almost seven months ago. Boss has traditionally been a tough matchup for me. He's cerebral, composed, fit, and steady when he plays. He's 3-0 H2H (2x singles, 1x doubles) and only the doubles match was close. He's a 4.5a and would be back at 5.0 if there had been ratings adjustments in 2020 IMO.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Okay - I think Ian wins easily.. Back to my original prediction..

I have seen Boss of Atlanta beaten by another player on the channel.. It's great that tennis troll is finally getting MEP some good opponents. I guess its hard where MEP lives. He must live in an area that has weaker 4.5s judging by how well he did in 4.5 play but how poorly he does against another 4.5 with a less impressive record.

There are all kinds of variances, I've been on teams before where the 4.5 singles players are 24-28 years old, just years from division 2 successful college teams, some started at 4.5, some got beat down to it by better college players in their 20's and 30s at 5.0. Anyway, I can imagine those guys might be hitting quite a few winners off the serves in this match. And the annoying court coverage ability of guys in their 20's just kills you mentally when you are trying to hit winners and they get everything back.

 

[ZanderGoga]

There are all kinds of variances, I've been on teams before where the 4.5 singles players are 24-28 years old, just years from division 2 successful college teams, some started at 4.5, some got beat down to it by better college players in their 20's and 30s at 5.0. Anyway, I can imagine those guys might be hitting quite a few winners off the serves in this match. And the annoying court coverage ability of guys in their 20's just kills you mentally when you are trying to hit winners and they get everything back.

Variance or not, I have never in decades of tennis, seen a 4.5 take a routine backhand and fail to get it back to his own service line. So many of these no-effort, no-swing puffballs into and in front of the net simply aren't shots you see blown to that degree at that level.

It was sort of fun to see what happened here when green shirt faced a guy with actual 4.0 ball striking. Boss still clearly wasn't a player competent to put away a sitter floating at the net, which is a skill you'd expect of a 4.0. But still, he did hit the ball fairly consistently most of the time, so I'm comfortable calling Boss a legit 4.0, and the result for MEP was about what I'd have wagered on against a player of that level.

Against a legitimate 4.5, it would be a blood bath.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Variance or not, I have never in decades of tennis, seen a 4.5 take a routine backhand and fail to get it back to his own service line. So many of these no-effort, no-swing puffballs into and in front of the net simply aren't shots you see blown to that degree at that level.

It was sort of fun to see what happened here when green shirt faced a guy with actual 4.0 ball striking. Boss still clearly wasn't a player competent to put away a sitter floating at the net, which is a skill you'd expect of a 4.0. But still, he did hit the ball fairly consistently most of the time, so I'm comfortable calling Boss a legit 4.0, and the result for MEP was about what I'd have wagered on against a player of that level.

Against a legitimate 4.5, it would be a blood bath.

You better be careful! The pitchforks will come for you! I kind of get what you are saying, but don't underestimate the ability of these guys to keep the ball in play. I know what you mean though, even the serves here would be in a little danger against the college guys.

 

[Slowtwitcher]

Variance or not, I have never in decades of tennis, seen a 4.5 take a routine backhand and fail to get it back to his own service line. So many of these no-effort, no-swing puffballs into and in front of the net simply aren't shots you see blown to that degree at that level.

It was sort of fun to see what happened here when green shirt faced a guy with actual 4.0 ball striking. Boss still clearly wasn't a player competent to put away a sitter floating at the net, which is a skill you'd expect of a 4.0. But still, he did hit the ball fairly consistently most of the time, so I'm comfortable calling Boss a legit 4.0, and the result for MEP was about what I'd have wagered on against a player of that level.

Against a legitimate 4.5, it would be a blood bath.

Still waiting to see video from you... will this be taking as long as GSG vs Ian?

 

[ChaelAZ]

Not sure when MEP pee’d in your corn flakes @GuyClinch , but your posts are continually disrespectful of his play and his achievements. I get you just don’t like his play style, and maybe there is a lot of scare tissue there for you or something, but jeez.

 

[mcs1970]

Variance or not, I have never in decades of tennis, seen a 4.5 take a routine backhand and fail to get it back to his own service line. So many of these no-effort, no-swing puffballs into and in front of the net simply aren't shots you see blown to that degree at that level.

It was sort of fun to see what happened here when green shirt faced a guy with actual 4.0 ball striking. Boss still clearly wasn't a player competent to put away a sitter floating at the net, which is a skill you'd expect of a 4.0. But still, he did hit the ball fairly consistently most of the time, so I'm comfortable calling Boss a legit 4.0, and the result for MEP was about what I'd have wagered on against a player of that level.

Against a legitimate 4.5, it would be a blood bath.

But GSG is playing matches and has a documented record. He is not self rating himself. So why do you keep on saying that it would be interesting to see a legit 4.0 or legit 4.5 against him?

 

[AnyPUG]

Variance or not, I have never in decades of tennis, seen a 4.5 take a routine backhand and fail to get it back to his own service line. So many of these no-effort, no-swing puffballs into and in front of the net simply aren't shots you see blown to that degree at that level.

It was sort of fun to see what happened here when green shirt faced a guy with actual 4.0 ball striking. Boss still clearly wasn't a player competent to put away a sitter floating at the net, which is a skill you'd expect of a 4.0. But still, he did hit the ball fairly consistently most of the time, so I'm comfortable calling Boss a legit 4.0, and the result for MEP was about what I'd have wagered on against a player of that level.

Against a legitimate 4.5, it would be a blood bath.

You have to be in a real generous mood to call Boss a legit 4.0 - looks more like a washed up and weak 3.5 hitter. There's no way green shirt could withstand a quality 3.5 opponent.
It's a big mistake to let them get on a tennis court without passing any licensing exam which ticks off some basic tennis ability.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

But GSG is playing matches and has a documented record. He is not self rating himself. So why do you keep on saying that it would be interesting to see a legit 4.0 or legit 4.5 against him?

Because GSG's aesthetic doesn't match Zander's mental image of what 4.5 should be.

Similar to people who struggle against pushers and declare "that wasn't even real tennis".

 

[pencilcheck]

What I learned as I am getting better is that mistakes are made not because they can't do it in practice but because the situation is hard as created by their opponent. GSG did wonderful job creating the play where he made BofA did a lot of movement that caught him off balance more than he would like to. In match play, typically the one who react a bit too slow or guess some of the things wrong would be put in disadvantage position, and they will not able to make certain play if they don't come in with the right mindset.

For example, you can't volley the same way against a topspin ball versus a slice. They are completely different and if you don't understand this you will always volley into the net out fly out of the court. You can tell your hitting partner to hit certain shot to you but in match play you have to make a split second guess and do the right thing at the right time. That is not easy.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

You can tell your hitting partner to hit certain shot to you but in match play you have to make a split second guess and do the right thing at the right time. That is not easy.

You could tell your hitting partner to vary things randomly to try and simulate a match as closely as possible. Also give him the freedom to go for passing shots as well [often in practice the BL guy does not attempt passers and lets the net person determine when to try and terminate the point].

 

[pencilcheck]

You could tell your hitting partner to vary things randomly to try and simulate a match as closely as possible. Also give him the freedom to go for passing shots as well [often in practice the BL guy does not attempt passers and lets the net person determine when to try and terminate the point].

Practice is always different from real match play and you know it. That's why you need to practice but also play a lot of real matches.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Practice is always different from real match play and you know it. That's why you need to practice but also play a lot of real matches.

I never wrote they were equivalent nor did I write that one should only practice and not play matches. I only pointed out how to change your practice routine to help get around the problem you mentioned:

You can tell your hitting partner to hit certain shot to you but in match play you have to make a split second guess and do the right thing at the right time.

 

[Deleted member 780836]

you can't volley the same way against a topspin ball versus a slice

How should a player volley against topspin vs slice vs flat?

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

How should a player volley against topspin vs slice vs flat?

What I see frequently is mis-judging the height of the incoming ball: a slice will sit up whereas the TS dips. This results in the volleyer framing the ball.

Also, I have to open my racquet face up more when the incoming is a slice.

When I see the net man frequently dumping my slice into the net, those 2 things are usually the culprits.

I don't adjust for flat vs TS.

 

[GuyClinch]

Not sure when MEP pee’d in your corn flakes @GuyClinch , but your posts are continually disrespectful of his play and his achievements. I get you just don’t like his play style, and maybe there is a lot of scare tissue there for you or something, but jeez.

No. MEP is a great guy - and I like his style of play. I am just curious about the Ian battle.. I was thinking Ian might lose after the travelajm beatdown - but now I have changed my opinion. The fact that this happened 7 months ago makes me a little less certain about this victory though. MEP might have improved since then.

I still think Ian won - but probably like 6-2, 6-3.. Boss is more consistent then Ian.

 

[AnyPUG]

No. MEP is a great guy - and I like his style of play. I am just curious about the Ian battle.. I was thinking Ian might lose after the travelajm beatdown - but now I have changed my opinion. The fact that this happened 7 months ago makes me a little less certain about this victory though. MEP might have improved since then.

I still think Ian won - but probably like 6-2, 6-3.. Boss is more consistent then Ian.

At least from the vid, Ian has much better serve, overhead and BH slice, forehand and volleying skills than BofA. His BH is not a weapon, but uses it very wisely to setup plays.
I expect him to be more strategic and smarter tennis wise(tennis is Ian's day job). It looks to me that Ian is at another level tbh.

 

[zipplock]

Variance or not, I have never in decades of tennis, seen a 4.5 take a routine backhand and fail to get it back to his own service line. So many of these no-effort, no-swing puffballs into and in front of the net simply aren't shots you see blown to that degree at that level.

It was sort of fun to see what happened here when green shirt faced a guy with actual 4.0 ball striking. Boss still clearly wasn't a player competent to put away a sitter floating at the net, which is a skill you'd expect of a 4.0. But still, he did hit the ball fairly consistently most of the time, so I'm comfortable calling Boss a legit 4.0, and the result for MEP was about what I'd have wagered on against a player of that level.

Against a legitimate 4.5, it would be a blood bath.

What makes someone a legit 4.5? I thought it was their NTRP rating. Am I missing something?

 

[AnyPUG]

What makes someone a legit 4.5? I thought it was their NTRP rating. Am I missing something?

Probably missing the fact that TT rating supersedes everything else such as USTA, UTR, NTRP etc.

 

[GuyClinch]

What makes someone a legit 4.5? I thought it was their NTRP rating. Am I missing something?

GSG is a legit 4.5 as they come. You only have to win 50% of your matches - and the guy is winning like all of them in the league. The problem of course is that his play doesn't look as good as other 4.5s. Tennis Troll looks almost to be playing a different sport in comparison - especially nowadays that he has cleaned his game up..

That being said its likely GSG has really improved over the 7months from this loss. He has been playing tons of guys and has lots of attention.. The guys who beat him on Tennis Troll channel are all pretty strong. 50 year old man beat tennis troll as well (I think)- albeit like a year ago when his game wasn't back yet..

So it will be interesting to see the big match against Ian. I am 100% rooting for GSG. Can't wait till we see what happens.. GSG stellar USTA performance means he really had a shot..

 

[zipplock]

GSG is a legit 4.5 as they come. You only have to win 50% of your matches - and the guy is winning like all of them in the league. The problem of course is that his play doesn't look as good as other 4.5s. Tennis Troll looks almost to be playing a different sport in comparison - especially nowadays that he has cleaned his game up..

That being said its likely GSG has really improved over the 7months from this loss. He has been playing tons of guys and has lots of attention.. The guys who beat him on Tennis Troll channel are all pretty strong. 50 year old man beat tennis troll as well (I think)- albeit like a year ago when his game wasn't back yet..

Of course @GSG is a legit 4.5. That's what the computer had him ranked as. That's the point. Aesthetics don't count for jack in the ratings program. Results count.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

What makes someone a legit 4.5?

When LeeD thinks it looks 4.5. Last time that happened was when Fed was destroying Alex and Simon of Top Tennis at the same time (like 1 against 2).

 

[tomato123]

You don't believe me? (that GSG is 4.5) You think I'm making it up? I dare you to challenge GSG to a game of ball one on one. Challenge him! And make sure your people is there to see the game. Cause you might get embarrassed.

 

[vex]

Also, I have to open my racquet face up more when the incoming is a slice.

.

I tried explaining this to a friend recently. People don’t realize that the resulting launch angle is affected by the spin the ball brings to the strings

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I tried explaining this to a friend recently. People don’t realize that the resulting launch angle is affected by the spin the ball brings to the strings

"Tried" sounds like he didn't believe you?

If people don't accept the explanation, you should be able to demonstrate it. Maybe then they'll believe you.

 

[Rubens]

This match will make Ian's match look bad unless Ian won 6-0 6-0. If a 4.5 player has already solved MEP in such a one-sided fashion, how will Ian look if he, a tennis instructor who sells technical and strategy videos, struggles to beat the same player? Now, I'm sure Ian won his match but I doubt it was as one-sided as Boss' match. Oh well. Better luck next time Ian.

 

[Deleted member 780836]

This match will make Ian's match look bad unless Ian won 6-0 6-0. If a 4.5 player has already solved MEP in such a one-sided fashion, how will Ian look if he, a tennis instructor who sells technical and strategy videos, struggles to beat the same player? Now, I'm sure Ian won his match but I doubt it was as one-sided as Boss' match. Oh well. Better luck next time Ian.

I don't think the result really matters. Teaching and playing are completely different, Ian is a good coach/instructor without a doubt, but he is older now and hasn't been playing competitively much. Being a good player is not required to be a good coach. Most of the coaches of atp and wta players can't really play competitively since they are old and out of shape but they are still great coaches.

I appreciate Ian for putting himself out there like this, especially since he loses quite a few matches.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

This match will make Ian's match look bad unless Ian won 6-0 6-0.

That's a rather high bar. Look at all of the matches GSG has played: how many has he lost 0&0? None?

If no one has double-bageled GSG, why hold Ian to that standard?

If a 4.5 player has already solved MEP in such a one-sided fashion, how will Ian look if he, a tennis instructor who sells technical and strategy videos, struggles to beat the same player?

GSG mentioned somewhere [on this forum?] that he believes BoA would have been bumped up to 5.0 had it not been for the frozen ratings. Also, BoA has played GSG before and so has experience with GSG's game style.

I doubt the result will affect ET's viewership much at all. The people who will stop watching perhaps focus more on their coach's playing ability than their coaching ability. I think they are in the vast minority.

Now, I'm sure Ian won his match but I doubt it was as one-sided as Boss' match. Oh well. Better luck next time Ian.

That's not much of a stretch to assume that given that Ian is probably a mid-4.5. Why would anyone assume otherwise? What does luck have to do with anything?

 

[heninfan99]

No. MEP is a great guy - and I like his style of play. I am just curious about the Ian battle.. I was thinking Ian might lose after the travelajm beatdown - but now I have changed my opinion. The fact that this happened 7 months ago makes me a little less certain about this victory though. MEP might have improved since then.

I still think Ian won - but probably like 6-2, 6-3.. Boss is more consistent then Ian.

Ian has already won as did Topher.

 

[blablavla]

If no one has double-bageled GSG, why hold Ian to that standard?

cause why not?

 

[user92626]

Okay - I think Ian wins easily.. Back to my original prediction..

I have seen Boss of Atlanta beaten by another player on the channel.. It's great that tennis troll is finally getting MEP some good opponents. I guess its hard where MEP lives. He must live in an area that has weaker 4.5s judging by how well he did in 4.5 play but how poorly he does against another 4.5 with a less impressive record.

That is some intense tennis. After 50 seconds of watching I had to get up and get a warm tea to catch my breath.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I tried explaining this to a friend recently. People don’t realize that the resulting launch angle is affected by the spin the ball brings to the strings

It's only taken about a billion balls zipping down into the net off my racket to realize these truths.

My answer to this was the martial arts equivalent of the one inch punch. Get some racket head speed into the ball to remove the effect of spin. Never let a slice hit a stationary frame.

 

[ByeByePoly]

For some context, this match took place almost seven months ago. Boss has traditionally been a tough matchup for me. He's cerebral, composed, fit, and steady when he plays. He's 3-0 H2H (2x singles, 1x doubles) and only the doubles match was close. He's a 4.5a and would be back at 5.0 if there had been ratings adjustments in 2020 IMO.

“He has a grownup version of my game” is t-shirt worthy. Get @sureshs on that in merchandising.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

“He has a grownup version of my game” is t-shirt worthy. Get @sureshs on that in merchandising.

I saw a coffee cup with the phrase: "Be yourself. Unless you can be Federer. If so, be Federer."

 

[GuyClinch]

Ian has already won as did Topher.

How did you know?

 

[GuyClinch]

cause why not?

That's a rather high bar. Look at all of the matches GSG has played: how many has he lost 0&0? None?

If no one has double-bageled GSG, why hold Ian to that standard?

Well maybe because Ian plays tennis for his livelihood.. I mean come on - ever watch any of those videos where Brian Scalabrine takes on all sorts of really good rec basketball players and owns them?

I mean I get that Ian is a teaching pro - but come on. All he does all day is play tennis, watch tennis, hit with other pros and then give internet lessons about tennis. And don't even pretend that Ian is giving hit and giggle group lessons to housewives. Because he is not.

I'd wager half the guys here could become 4.5 if they did this for ten years. And I don't even think that is a risky bet. Average joe is lucky to get 10 hours of court time a week..

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Well maybe because Ian plays tennis for his livelihood.. I mean come on - ever watch any of those videos where Brian Scalabrine takes on all sorts of really good rec basketball players and owns them?

I mean I get that Ian is a teaching pro - but come on. All he does all day is play tennis, watch tennis, hit with other pros and then give internet lessons about tennis. And don't even pretend that Ian is giving hit and giggle group lessons to housewives. Because he is not.

I'd wager half the guys here could become 4.5 if they did this for ten years. And I don't even think that is a risky bet. Average joe is lucky to get 10 hours of court time a week..

He teaches and runs a business for his livelihood, which isn't the same thing as playing competitively all day. Coaches have said that coaching dulls their game because they have to tone everything down to their students' level which is invariably not as high as their own so their competitive instinct is dulled.

I'd take the under on your wager. The fact that only 10% get to 4.5+ means it isn't very easy. 4.0 would be a much safer bet.

 

[Digital Atheist]

What makes someone a legit 4.5? I thought it was their NTRP rating. Am I missing something?

The short answer is yes and it has nothing to do with ratings .

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Well maybe because Ian plays tennis for his livelihood.. I mean come on - ever watch any of those videos where Brian Scalabrine takes on all sorts of really good rec basketball players and owns them?

I mean I get that Ian is a teaching pro - but come on. All he does all day is play tennis, watch tennis, hit with other pros and then give internet lessons about tennis. And don't even pretend that Ian is giving hit and giggle group lessons to housewives. Because he is not.

I'd wager half the guys here could become 4.5 if they did this for ten years. And I don't even think that is a risky bet. Average joe is lucky to get 10 hours of court time a week..

But Ian has never been a Biran Scalabrine kind of guy. Ian does regularly lose to tough rec opponents or other coaches (like Ira). Ira isn't even an exceptionally good player for a non-pro (as in ATP) level and he beat him easily. Ian is not a racquet magician and has never pretended to be. If anything, he did a bit of humblebrag, making it out like "top tennis are too advanced for you guys, so all adult recs come to me to learn stuff you can use".

 

[Rubens]

For a player with Ian's background, there's a huge difference between losing to regular 4.5 players like Mark/Chris/Adam, and losing to MEP. Not to take anything away from MEP, but he's a two-trick pony (lefty, and hits consistent low-bouncing shots). Yes it's a tricky combo that will cause trouble to most 4.5's. But Ian is an instructor AND a 4.5.

We saw Boss solve MEP simply by using the appropriate technique to return to those low shots. He didn't execute it perfectly, and he didn't have to. Using the right technique decently was enough to tear MEP a new one without breaking a sweat. As a 4.5 player who is also an instructor, Ian SHOULD have decent technical knowledge in handling a wide variety of shots. As such, it would be disappointing if he's not able to do the same as Boss, if not better.

 

[AnyPUG]

For a player with Ian's background, there's a huge difference between losing to regular 4.5 players like Mark/Chris/Adam, and losing to MEP. Not to take anything away from MEP, but he's a two-trick pony (lefty, and hits consistent low-bouncing shots). Yes it's a tricky combo that will cause trouble to most 4.5's. But Ian is an instructor AND a 4.5.

We saw Boss solve MEP simply by using the appropriate technique to return to those low shots. He didn't execute it perfectly, and he didn't have to. Using the right technique decently was enough to tear MEP a new one without breaking a sweat. As a 4.5 player who is also an instructor, Ian SHOULD have decent technical knowledge in handling a wide variety of shots. As such, it would be disappointing if he's not able to do the same as Boss, if not better.

So very true, with all the group thinking, planning, strategizing, training and practices (on top of decades of tennis background) within ET that went into to handle MEP, definitely we have to expect 0 and 0 score - anything less is a huge let down and beyond belief really. If MEP manages anything better, it shows MEP's nature defying characteristics that escape the naked eye (or normal and earthly expectations).

 

[jhick]

So very true, with all the group thinking, planning, strategizing, training and practices (on top of decades of tennis background) within ET that went into to handle MEP, definitely we have to expect 0 and 0 score - anything less is a huge let down and beyond belief really. If MEP manages anything better, it shows MEP's nature defying characteristics that escape the naked eye (or normal and earthly expectations).

A true 4.5 does not generally beat another 4.5 0 and 0. GSG is an above average 4.5 as evidenced by his record. Unless Ian is a 5.0 in disguise and purposely losing to other 4.5's on his channel to hype up the anticipated match, I think it's unreasonable to expect a double bagel. Believe me, I've played matches against unorthodox players at 4.5 and while I generally match up well against this style of play, it still isn't easy to keep coming up with winner after winner throughout an entire match. It's good to see all of the preparation from Ian, but there is a difference between preparing/strategizing and executing.

 

[Clash Ah ah]

The anti-Ian brigade on here have quite the agenda.
All because they lack the patience to wait for the match to be uploaded?

 

[curly_2350]

Well I mean you’ve seen his channel right? The ridiculous drama and hype have been carefully engineered. It wasn’t an accident.

 

[Slowtwitcher]

The anti-Ian brigade on here have quite the agenda.

Yep. We decide the agenda during our Anti-Ian Brigade Zoom meetings.

We might allow you do join, but you'll have to renege your worship of Ian and all ET things. Are you ready to welcome the spirit of GSG into your heart?

 

[norcal]

Well I mean you’ve seen his channel right? The ridiculous drama and hype have been carefully engineered. It wasn’t an accident.

I feel like I'm the only one who hasn't followed him/his channel.
It was awesome how the MEP v Trav match came to fruition so quickly...and since I know Trav from his posting on here it was more interesting to me (since I've never seen Ian play).

 

[Clash Ah ah]

Yep. We decide the agenda during our Anti-Ian Brigade Zoom meetings.

We might allow you do join, but you'll have to renege your worship of Ian and all ET things. Are you ready to welcome the spirit of GSG into your heart?

Big fan of Ben/GSG/MEP. I appreciated what Ian is attempting to do with his channel too. Weird eh?