Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Matty G, Jun 25, 2009.
To me Gulbis = New Safin bar Safins Anger but with Less drive
Well, I can see the the similarities in terms of (1) massive fire power and (2) questionable motivation and focus at times, BUT, there are some differences:
(1) Safin was more talented overall. No mistake, Gulbis has talent, but Safin had more AND could put it all together more often (though, obviously, Gulbis is still young).
(2) Safin's peak tennis IQ was much higher. When he was motivated he could play very intelligent matches, knowing when to use his power, and knowing when to mix it up. Gulbis' tennis IQ, so far, is really bad (though, again, he's young).
(3) Despite the sometimes questionable motivation and focus, Safin did win a couple of Slams, and even in his unfocused periods, he still had some decent tournaments and good wins. This isn't true for Gulbis. For the third time, he's young, and has time to improve mentally/strategically, but you can't just assume that he'll turn into a motivated, focused, smart player. Something is going to have to click for him. Remarkable physical talents without the mental hardware is nothing new in tennis.
Focus, strategy, motivation are just as important components of "talent" as huge shots. Let's hope he gets on the right track.
Hes had a bad run this year,
He does have certain Safin qualities though.
And Safin was 20 and destroyed sampras in the uso. Gulbis is already 20 and nowhere close.
So now being a new Safin is a bad thing? Safin's main reason he didn't win more was INJURY. Not mental lapses. he always had that but could win Slams with it. Although Safin might have achieved a little more, he's a tennis legend and Gulbis will never be. He doesn't have the talent Safin had, and he doesn't seem to have the drive Safin haD. All in all, you're obviously insulting Safin with this statement, as Gulbis is a total nobody who should be extremely happy to be like Safin.
Gulbis is nothing more than just another spoiled rich kid with a pretty decent game. He has no hunger, nor does he have any need to be hungry. Stick a fork in him. He's done.
This comparision is actually giving Gulbis a ton of undeserved credit, and completely unfair to Safin. Safin is a far more complete player than Gulbis ever was. Gulbis is nothing but a ferocious ball basher. There was much more to Safin's overall game and intelligence on court than just the extremely overpowering strokes he and Gulbis both have. Gulbis would do amazingly well to even equal Safin's career achievements in the future, something I give him about 1% of doing at this point.
We can call him the new Safin when he starts winning some Grand Slams, or at least contending for them.
Until then, he's nowhere close.
Gulbis will never come close to achieving what Safin has.
Gulbis is the new Berdych.
i love how quickly we dismiss players on this board. almost as quickly as we elevate them to hero worship status.
His parents are rich.So he's not as hungry as Safin or other players that had to work hard to reach the top,to help their their families out of poverty,etc.
Berdych has a Masters Title and has been in the top 10. Gulbis isn't even close.
I wouldn't call it dismiss.The kid hasn't made it past R2 of any tourny he played this year.
While this is true, there are plenty of "hungry" tennis players who came from rich households, or, more commonly, households, that while maybe not "rich", were nowhere near close to poverty.
Gulbis' silver spoon is hardly a good excuse.
in normal sports parlance, that would simply be referred to as a "slump". on this board, however, it means his career is over. oh, and he's an ass cos his parents are rich.
i don't know gulbis from a hole in the wall (and nor do any of you, by the way) . . . but my point is you guys draw a hell of a lot of conclusions from a player losing a few matches.
I 100% agree with what you said.Maybe he's not as talented as we thaught he was.
Safin >>>>>> Gulbis.
Come back to compare them when Gulbis wins two GS titles.
Gulbis is talented but even at this age Safin was top 10 and in slam contention..Gulbis not close to that yet.
I agree with you.He's just 19 so hopefully he'll get his act together.
Well this is TW
He's not an ass but he doesn't seem to be as hungry as other players.
Gulbis has as much talent as needed to wins GS, just watch his destruction of Robredo at the 2007 US Open on youtube. I don't think Thomas Johansson or Albert Costa ever played that well in their careers. Amazing display. The reason Gulbis is underperforming this year is because his confidence is low. It will click... soon.
I would've loved to see this board's reaction to Safin's beginning of 2000 slump when he actually got fined for tanking a match at the AO and talked openly of retiring. Guess what happened a few months later...
Johansson and Costa in their primes were fully capable of destroying someone like Robredo on a good day. Costa at his best was a demon on clay, taking sets regularly of peak Muster of 95-96. Gulbis hasnt shown tennis of the caliber of Costa's best clay tennis on any surface, and clay is where Costa won his slam, he was never close anywhere else. Johansson is one of the weakest slam winners in history, yet he still is a much better player than some remember. He was the hero of the Sweden-Spain semifinal in 98 the year they won the Davis Cup, and he has won a Masters title in Canada, and well past his prime was in the semis of Wimbledon and took Roddick to a 4th set tiebreaker.
Apart from the backhand, all of Gulbis' strokes are better than Safin's.
No doubt if he puts it together, he'll be a better player than Safin ever was. Which isnt saying much, cuz all Safin ever did was bash crosscourt groundstrokes. Anyone can do that nowadays.
I'm not saying Costa or Johansson were bad players. Actually I agree with everything you say here. They could probably give Robredo a beating too. But NOT in the same way as Gulbis, not with the same insane variety of shotmaking. Gulbis was destroying Robredo every possible way, with aces, forehand winners, backhand winners, flat bombs, topspin angles, drop shots, drop volleys, S&V, everything!!
With Costa you'd see some great shotmaking on that beautiful 1HBH with insane topspin, maybe a few FH winners too, but that was it. Johansson at his best would serve bombs out wide to the deuce court and hit penetrating flat shots with his backhand.
Effective? Of course! Enough to beat Robredo? Sure! But not comparable to Gulbis' all court display in that match. That alone tells me the kid has enough talent to win slams. But, talent is not enough to win slams.
I missed the match, what failed him? serve? UE? what was it?
The new Safin? I didn't know Safin's family was super-rich. :shock:
When Safin was 20 like Gulbis is now, he won USO (2000)
by beating Sampras in straights. Come back and tell us what Gulbis has accomplished when he's 29 (Safin's current age)
I am guessing not a whole lot. Not sure why everyone is so high on this kid.
Brain!!.. His brain failed him.. After one thousand and one forehand cross court to Murray, he just froze and Murray's forehand 100% will do a cross court forehand pass.. time after time and after time Gulbis brain just froze. This guy had tremendous talent with no brain.. he missed so many sitters.. that's what you missed. !!
I second that. Why does this guy get so much hype on here? He's a draw filler with a big serve, no more. Cilic is already way ahead of him and is about the same age, yet he doesn't seem to get any attention here. Heck even Querry has won a tournament and taken a set from Nadal on clay, which puts him ahead of Gulbis in terms of accomplishments to date in my view.
I see the resemblence...whenever I watch Safin and Gulbis and a long rally is taking place, they will undoubtedly be the first to miss. Every time Murray was slicing back to Gulbis, it was just an unforced error waiting to happen. Same for Safin, when a shot is hit to his forehand, he is going to miss and that side is going to break down. Gulbis can't overpower his opponent if he can't keep the ball in play, and Safin won't outhit his opponent unless he is significantly worse or he is exchanging backhands with him.
I don't understand the love for Gulbis. I mean, he has a decent amount of talent but he doesn't look like anything special. He simply got destroyed by Murray. IMO, there are at least 30 people on tour more talented than Gulbis. Did not see anything special in him.
Djokovic is the new Safin as of right now.
Oh, I see the reason for the Gulbis adoration. When he's on -- and if you blink you can miss it -- he is something special. Deft touch, huge serve, huge FH, huge BH.
But there is a lot that is still missing. He makes UEs on easy put-aways. His slice is ineffective. His service return is poor. He has a very low shot tolerance and didn't win many long rallies against Murray. He doesn't know how to mix things up.
There is hope, though. He has stopped hitting 50 drop shots per match. He finished points at net (although he botched too many net points).
He surely has far more talent than Del Potro. And remember, it was not so long ago that everyone dismissed Verdasco, and look how he turned things around. He's young yet, and it is quite possible that he will put it all together.
The Robredo match was incredible. But, remember, he followed that up with a loss to a past-his-prime Moya.
And, it was Tommy Robredo. By no means a an insignificant win, but hardly the sort of win that makes you think greatness is around the corner.
It is saying a lot. Safin won two Grand Slams.
Are you saying Gulbis will win more than two Grand Slams and get to #1 in the world? Because if he doesn't, he's not better than Safin.
When they played in Australia 1st round last year Gulbis actually outpaced/outpowered Safin and hit many more winners, yet he had a kazillion more errors so still lost easily. Safin of even today was actually made to look all of intelligent, consistent, and focused for once when put up against Gulbis.
I read another poster bring up Lucic as a good comparision and I agree. I started a thread as that is who I would compare him to most. He will ultimately be alot of hype that turns into just a journeyman career for a solid half decade, before descending to something even lower than that for almost another half decade, then will be gone and forgotten altogether.
i think Gulbis will have a lot less success than Safin. All they have is the same game style and share inconsistent results.
I laugh at this thread since it looks like this is almost meant to be an insult to Gulbis, or as if projecting him to be a dissapointment if he only has a Safin career. If Gulbis ever has a Safin career it would be a HUGE success for him, beyond what anyone rational should ever have expected.
safin moved better, at thge same age
otherwise they are pretty similar
I would say, more like the old Verdasco.
Maybe in a few years we could revisit this thread and see how Gulbis has fared.
I remember that during the AO (might have been last year) some of the Aussie commentators remarked that Berdych was like a younger derivative of Safin.
In yesterday's match, Murray really exposed a number of Gulbis' weaknesses. It clearly demonstrated the difference between a top 5 player and someone like Gulbis who simply doesn't have the mental capacity to play at that level.
I honestly don't see this guy ever amounting to much on a tennis court. Maybe he can help daddy run the business someday (into the ground).
what an insult to Marat
I don't think Safin ever had to lift his parents out of poverty either. His mother is a tennis champion believe so I don't think that getting a tennis education was as difficult of an endeavor as it is for other non-tennis families. So you're poverty point isn't really accurate. The point about Gulbis lacking hunger bc he's from a rich family could be true though.
If Gulbis had the mentality and drive like Nadal or Federer he would be a top contender.
That's what happens when you're born into a rich family and always have something to fall back on if you fail.
well when your father is incredibly wealthy as is Papar Gulbis, there might be little motivation for excellence
I was discussing this with a friend who is a big fan of Gulbis, but I actually asked him a different question. I asked "Is Gublis the next Berdych" ?
I'm not sure whether it is lack of effort, mental strength and other psychological factors, or did we all overestimate his abilities?
I mean I had a look at his results from last year, and when he played the top guys he did really well, and even if he lost, he always made it close against Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray. But this year he seems to have done very little.
I do feel its more to do with his mind and motivation to improve, because I do think the guy has genuine talent, but needs to play a more consistent game.
Thank you. Its an idiotic thread.
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