Gut crosses notching super early in Poly/Gut hybrid

[AdamKJor]

Hi,

I tried both a gut/poly and poly/gut hybrid for the first time, and after a few weeks, i preferred the characteristics of the poly mains, however there was insane notching after just a few hours. The poly was basically drilled far into the gut, and really decreased the spin potential.

On the gut/poly hybrid however, the gut keeps sliding nicely across the poly after many weeks (used this one much less), as the poly might drill into the gut, but the gut can still slide laterally.

Is this something one must simply accept when using hybrids with stiff/soft strings, and would multi maybe improve my experience?

For reference I use the Prestige Pro Auxetic, and strung 4G 1.25/Klip Legend 1.30 uncoated at 22.5/23.5 kg, and the same strings reversed at 24/22 kg.

 

[stapletonj]

You dont tell us what poly you were using. on a gut/poly hybrid, a round smooth poly is almost mandatory.

I imagine the same is true for a poly M - gut X hybrid

Also since the mains are usually tighter than the X's that might be a factor

 

[AdamKJor]

You dont tell us what poly you were using. on a gut/poly hybrid, a round smooth poly is almost mandatory.

I imagine the same is true for a poly M - gut X hybrid

Also since the mains are usually tighter than the X's that might be a factor

Edited the main comment. Useda round poly for the first time after reading it's much better, and learned that I much prefer them hahah.

 

[stapletonj]

I am also a Klip guy, but I do gut M instead.

I use the single coating product (can never keep the names straight) and do not feel a diff. between that and the uncoated.

Now the white double coated stuff? Just stay away from that, ick.

roundest smoothest poly I have found so far is isospeed cream btw. You might want to try it. Yonex is really good too, but pretty pricey.

 

[LOBALOT]

I am not clear on how a cross string can "notch". I certainly can see it "fray" but cannot imagine how one would "notch" a cross string.

Is OP saying the gut cross is fraying?

 

[Fintft]

I am also a Klip guy, but I do gut M instead.

I use the single coating product (can never keep the names straight) and do not feel a diff. between that and the uncoated.

Now the white double coated stuff? Just stay away from that, ick.

roundest smoothest poly I have found so far is isospeed cream btw. You might want to try it. Yonex is really good too, but pretty pricey.

@AdamKJor You can't keep poly for a couple of weeks, you need to cut it off after 10-15h.

Better to use gut as a main. Myself I prefer Babolat VS Team 17, that has a BT7 coating (and I wax it as well, before each hit).
You might be able to replace the poly up to 2-3 times before the gut breaks...Probably using a round poly helps.

 

[Trip]

@AdamKJor - What you've noticed is on-par with expectations. The surface hardness of each string will, by and large, dictate which string wears/frays/notches first. In general, it's always best to put the softer, more easily-notched string in the mains, and use the harder, hopefully slicker string in the crosses, to promote as much and as long-lasting snapback as possible for the life of the string job. So in the case of gut/poly, always use gut in the mains, poly in the crosses.

If you have access to IsoSpeed Rexxer, StringLab Orbitour or Grapplesnake Irukandji (oval or rounded-rectangle shaped polys), you'll find by using any of those as a cross, you can extend the life gut mains up to 2x or more, as the wider cross section will exhibit less stress at each contact point with the gut.

@LOBALOT - Notched crosses are very feasible in this case, as all you need is enough difference in surface hardness between main and cross (and you can't get a much bigger difference than 4G and Gut) and the player hits flat enough and hard enough to continually drive the poly mains directly back into the gut crosses.

 

[LOBALOT]

@AdamKJor - What you've noticed is on-par with expectations. The surface hardness of each string will, by and large, dictate which string wears/frays/notches first. In general, it's always best to put the softer, more easily-notched string in the mains, and use the harder, hopefully slicker string in the crosses, to promote as much and as long-lasting snapback as possible for the life of the string job. So in the case of gut/poly, always use gut in the mains, poly in the crosses.

If you have access to IsoSpeed Rexxer, StringLab Orbitour or Grapplesnake Irukandji (oval or rounded-rectangle shaped polys), you'll find by using any of those as a cross, you can extend the life gut mains up to 2x or more, as the wider cross section will exhibit less stress at each contact point with the gut.

@LOBALOT - Notched crosses are very feasible in this case, as all you need is enough difference in surface hardness between main and cross (and you can't get a much bigger difference than 4G and Gut) and the player hits flat enough and hard enough to continually drive the poly mains directly back into the gut crosses.

It would be great for someone to post a picture of notched crosses in their racquet (strings not removed from racquet just slide the main over to expose the notched cross.). I am not questioning it but would like to see it as I for one have not.

I understand hardness of materials and differences between the two but I also understand string deflection at contact and even if one hits flat the ball they are hitting is spinning and the strings will deflect leading to a frayed or flattened softer cross but not notching.

 

[graycrait]

(and I wax it as well, before each hit).

What kind of wax do you use?

 

[Trip]

@LOBALOT - Indeed, I'd like to see it, too, as I personally never play a hybrid combo where you've got the softer and/or less slick of the two strings in the crosses (and don't really understand why anyone would, either, especially with gut).

 

[LOBALOT]

What kind of wax do you use?

Hi Graycat:

I hope you are doing great.

I don't and I should. Would good old paraffin like we used to use on radio flyer sleds work?

I was going to actually post some quick video to you guys as I have 2 racquets with 1 week of play (VS/Cream) where if I deflect the mains with my finger they remain stuck out of place unless I move them back and if I deflect the crosses they remain out of place until I snap them back into their notch. I just think this is awfully premature and have gotten better longevity previously so was wondering if perhaps there was something I could do.

I am not a string breaker and in the past on my old racquets have gotten several months out of a setup before the ball starts flying on me and I can tell it is time for a restring.

Thanks for your help.

 

[LOBALOT]

- deleted --

 

[LOBALOT]

@LOBALOT - Indeed, I'd like to see it, too, as I personally never play a hybrid combo where you've got the softer and/or less slick of the two strings in the crosses (and don't really understand why anyone would, either, especially with gut).

I concur. I would not do it and have no idea why one would spend all that money for gut only to put it in the cross. Yes, I know pros do it but as we have said in the past they don't care how long it lasts and toss the stick for a fresh one frequently. I don't think any normal people do that.

 

[graycrait]

Would good old paraffin like we used to use on radio flyer sleds work?

Probably, but I was thinking bow string wax like from my days when I used to shoot tons of arrows from traditional bows. I also think there is a lube that is used on some musical instrument strings.

 

[Fintft]

What kind of wax do you use?

The cheapest affordable blocks of bee wax I can find on flea bay (usually from China).

 

[Sardines]

Hi,

I tried both a gut/poly and poly/gut hybrid for the first time, and after a few weeks, i preferred the characteristics of the poly mains, however there was insane notching after just a few hours. The poly was basically drilled far into the gut, and really decreased the spin potential.

On the gut/poly hybrid however, the gut keeps sliding nicely across the poly after many weeks (used this one much less), as the poly might drill into the gut, but the gut can still slide laterally.

Is this something one must simply accept when using hybrids with stiff/soft strings, and would multi maybe improve my experience?

For reference I use the Prestige Pro Auxetic, and strung 4G 1.25/Klip Legend 1.30 uncoated at 22.5/23.5 kg, and the same strings reversed at 24/22 kg.

That's always going to happen, even if you use silicone spray, wax, oil etc. This is due to how uncoated Klip gut breaks down in fibers, which causes kinks that the poly will have to overcome, creating more notching. Silicone spray (dry type) on the gut will have to applied after every hit, and you'll still only extend usefulness by 10-15 mins each application at best, maybe more if you hit less!

I was going to actually post some quick video to you guys as I have 2 racquets with 1 week of play (VS/Cream) where if I deflect the mains with my finger they remain stuck out of place unless I move them back and if I deflect the crosses they remain out of place until I snap them back into their notch. I just think this is awfully premature and have gotten better longevity previously so was wondering if perhaps there was something I could do.

I am not a string breaker and in the past on my old racquets have gotten several months out of a setup before the ball starts flying on me and I can tell it is time for a restring.

3M dry time silicone spray gives about 10-15 mins of meaningful use on gut on each application. You will have to move the crosses to get at the mains contact patch. Cream's coating is nano thin so it wears out fast. For me PolyTour Fire's coating is the longest lasting slipperiness, followed by Gosen G Tour 3. RPM Blast Rough is also very good. ISOSPEED, Wilson Revolve and others I've tried, the coatings don't last more than 3-4 hrs of hitting.

 

[LOBALOT]

That's always going to happen, even if you use silicone spray, wax, oil etc. This is due to how uncoated Klip gut breaks down in fibers, which causes kinks that the poly will have to overcome, creating more notching. Silicone spray (dry type) on the gut will have to applied after every hit, and you'll still only extend usefulness by 10-15 mins each application at best, maybe more if you hit less!


3M dry time silicone spray gives about 10-15 mins of meaningful use on gut on each application. You will have to move the crosses to get at the mains contact patch. Cream's coating is nano thin so it wears out fast. For me PolyTour Fire's coating is the longest lasting slipperiness, followed by Gosen G Tour 3. RPM Blast Rough is also very good. ISOSPEED, Wilson Revolve and others I've tried, the coatings don't last more than 3-4 hrs of hitting.

Thanks I have a reel of fire for this purpose. These sticks are giving me elbow issue even dropping the tension way down below where I had my old racquets so have been hesitant to toss fire in the crosses as fire dies quickly and dies very stiff even as a cross with gut mains.

 

[ey039524]

Has anyone tried dry graphite lube?

Also, my son and I used Babolat elastocross string savers. They're made of slippery plastic. I rarely have to reposition my strings, so they seem to slip back into place (Klip/Wilson NG x Monogut ZX cross).

 

[Sardines]

Thanks I have a reel of fire for this purpose. These sticks are giving me elbow issue even dropping the tension way down below where I had my old racquets so have been hesitant to toss fire in the crosses as fire dies quickly and dies very stiff even as a cross with gut mains.

In my experience, PTF maintains tension well enough.