Gut crosses

[Rabbit]

OK, because I think so much of this community, I performed an experiment. About 6 months ago, I was playing with natural gut mains and poly crosses. Then I went back to an all-poly set up. Yesterday I did what I said was useless. I strung one of my C10s with poly mains and gut crosses. Hey, I did it for you guys.... I got the idea from the Sam Querry bag check. He uses this same set up.

The string job actually plays firmer than the all poly. I'm using Pacific Poly Force Original in the mains and Pacific Prime 16 in the crosses. The first thing I noticed was that it did play firmer. It wasn't anywhere near harsh, but the stringbed did feel very firm.

There is a slight increase in power with this set up, which is what I was after. I may trying bumping the crosses tension down a couple of pounds on my next one to see if that adds some more pop. I think it might.

My initial conclusion is that using gut in the crosses is still a waste of gut. But, it does have some benefits. It won't lose tension like a multi and the poly I'm using doesn't lose tension, so it may be a good choice.

 

[Steve Huff]

Rabbit, I finally did the same thing. I thought it was a waste of the natural gut too. I put Pacific X Force 18 in the mains of one and Klip Legend in the crosses. I reversed it in my other racket. In both cases, I strung the gut 5# tighter than the poly. While I still prefer the gut in the mains, the one with the gut in the crosses plays well. I'll no longer fault guys for doing this. It definitely plays better than having a synthetic gut in the crosses.

 

[Rabbit]

Yep, me too; with regard to faulting guys who do this.

Although I strung mine at the same tension and am now thinking of backing down the gut tension next time.

 

[ClubHoUno]

Yep, me too; with regard to faulting guys who do this.

Although I strung mine at the same tension and am now thinking of backing down the gut tension next time.

How come you went away from using the Pacific Poly Force Xtreme and back to the original Poly Force

 

[Rabbit]

Original plays firmer and I find I have better control. I really like the feel of Xtreme though. It felt great and retained tension too.

 

[Nellie]

My gut holds tension forever, long after the poly starts to stretch. I think the set up is good value because it holds up for a while.

 

[nskatp]

Hi Rabbit, did you had a chance to cross your Poly Force Original mains with Poly Force Xtreme?

 

[Rabbit]

I have not. I will in the near future.

 

[reflexace]

hi Rabbit & Steve Huff, nice to see some guys from the 'old boards' still experimenting and posting your experiences.

from what you guys tried above, could we somewhat generalize that the crosses does contribute somewhat to the liveliness of the stringbed? it's interesting that the feel was firmer as well.

i'm wondering if that's not specific to gut. my stringer mistakenly put the poly on the mains and multi in the cross, and i actually thought it played more lively than the multi mains and poly cross. any thoughts? cheers

 

[Rabbit]

It did appear as though it was easier to generate more power off the serve and volleys felt better. I don't know that I would quantify the stringbed as lively though. It certainly was not lively in terms of a gut main/poly cross ro all gut string bed.

 

[hoodjem]

The first thing I noticed was that it did play firmer. It wasn't anywhere near harsh, but the stringbed did feel very firm.
There is a slight increase in power with this set up, which is what I was after.

While I still prefer the gut in the mains, the one with the gut in the crosses plays well.

So what are the advantages of putting the gut in the mains? More feel?

Spin? Control?

 

[ledor]

Gut in mains = comfort, feel. High tension will handle control on gut, lower tension for more power. Spin will come from your technique.

 

[hoodjem]

I'm sold: BAM and Klip Legend 17g--soopa bad!

 

[DrewRafter8]

I've always used poly mains with gut crosses. I'm burned out with the lack of playability. With the gut mains and poly cross, does it really add spin? I've decided to go full 15 gauge gut from now on. I think I can get about the same spin.

 

[pow]

So overall, which did you guys all end up preferring?
Gut in the mains / poly crosses
or
Poly mains / gut crosses?

 

[Steve Huff]

Personally, I like the gut in the mains, poly in the crosses, with the poly strung 5# lower than the gut.

 

[rorschack]

OK, because I think so much of this community, I performed an experiment. About 6 months ago, I was playing with natural gut mains and poly crosses. Then I went back to an all-poly set up. Yesterday I did what I said was useless. I strung one of my C10s with poly mains and gut crosses. Hey, I did it for you guys.... I got the idea from the Sam Querry bag check. He uses this same set up.

The string job actually plays firmer than the all poly. I'm using Pacific Poly Force Original in the mains and Pacific Prime 16 in the crosses. The first thing I noticed was that it did play firmer. It wasn't anywhere near harsh, but the stringbed did feel very firm.

There is a slight increase in power with this set up, which is what I was after. I may trying bumping the crosses tension down a couple of pounds on my next one to see if that adds some more pop. I think it might.

My initial conclusion is that using gut in the crosses is still a waste of gut. But, it does have some benefits. It won't lose tension like a multi and the poly I'm using doesn't lose tension, so it may be a good choice.

For sure, Pacific natural gut (e.g. Tough Gut) is noticeably stiffer than VS. Don't know about Pacific Prime. So, to start with, it would be a stiff setup. Try putting VS on the cross at same tension, I bet you'd get more feel/pop. However, Pacific Tough Gut does loosen up as time goes on and feel softer, thus giving more pop after a few hours.

Report back after 2-3 sessions.

 

[jonolau]

Hi Guys, have any of you ever tried Signum Pro's Cross Gut? It looks pretty interesting and I might want to give it a shot.

 

[nskatp]

Hi Rabbit, when you use gut on crosses do they move?

 

[Rabbit]

No, not with poly mains.

 

[shamaho]

So weird that this thread doesn't have much more volume.

Anyways, so goal for going NatGut in crosses is hoping for improved durability of the Gut/poly combo (based on my experience of Syn Gut in crosses with poly mains lasting forever) - so my setup was: MSV Focus Hex on mains 22 Kg x cheap nat gut on crosses 21Kg.

Have not hit much besides a 10 minute stint (with the lousiest and deadest balls ever) and yes, the stringbed felt a bit firmer than fullbed of the MSV poly - however I did string like 2 or 3 lbs higher then my regular fullbed of MSV.

Tomorrow I'll make my second hit with balls in proper conditions. more feedback tomorrow

 

[shamaho]

Ok, so here's the report remember I used that cheaper nat gut (NGW) V4 :

I played a bit less than an hour in gritty Red Clay: sparring at first, then a shortened set. Practiced with 3 different setups across 2 rackets - two of those were POG Mid one fullbed poly, another hybrid with the nat gut.

-I reported that the hybrid felt firmer than fullbed poly during the initial 10 minutes (on the prior session) BUT today after just another 10 minutes (hot sunny day) - the nat. gut settled and now yes, it felt softer, more powerfull and much more comfortable than the full bed poly.

-It has been said that mains impart 80% of the feel ? well, not quite the case here, it felt more like 60/40 after a while, where that unmistakable nat gut feel made itself present more with each passing minute.

The stringbed still had that "edge" of the poly (so it felt more poly than gut), with plenty of spin, but absolutely great comfort with that "organic" feel of the gut - not quite as much as if in the mains, but still there. Felt like playing with fullbed of an extra spinny multi...

On a couple of situations, played touch shots (mostly due to getting late to the ball and resorting to angled soft sliced FH and BH with the gentlest touch with great placement) where gut lended that special feel to it - not quite as much as when in the mains (where for me it feels like I'm cupping the ball with my fingers and can place it really well) but still good - my opponent did not see those coming .

Also, I felt on some shots where I was streched and had to reach for the ball that the nat. gut had nice grab on the ball and I could create angles with a flick of the wrist, whereas with a fullbed poly I could only do it with high-speed brushing on the ball (impossible since I was already streched...).

Somehow on full strike of the FH felt that I had more control with the poly fullbed than the hybrid (could also be due to switching sticks and setups). Also dwell time feels clearly longer on the hybrid.

Concluding, it doesn't FEEL the same ie. it's not Nat. Gut Dominant - its more poly dominant but still makes it's presence felt - and comfort, grab, dwell time (pocketing?) and power are increased.

Let's see how it behaves in the durability department.

 

[shamaho]

UPDATE: Gut on crosses:

At this point the stringbed has had about 5h of play - still feels and plays great and no apparent tension loss (purely subjective based on feel). Great comfort and power and feel are it's main benefits - character of "gut" is more present now.

Here's a snapshot of the stringbed after the 5h - with no cleaning / treatment whatsoaver:

Shared album from Shafik

Tap to view!

photos.app.goo.gl

So i decided to clean it up a bit and treat it with some grease (used to trat leathers, I dunno, some hope that the string will absorb some of that grease):

Shared album from Shafik

Tap to view!

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Nate7-5]

Instead of replying to a thread that has been dormant for 12 years, why dont you just make a new thread?

 

[1HBHfanatic]

UPDATE: Gut on crosses:
.......

So i decided to clean it up a bit and treat it with some grease (used to trat leathers, I dunno, some hope that the string will absorb some of that grease):
.......

-this actually use to be a treatment for nat.gut after playing,
-second hand info i got from older players, im not a big GUT person
-trying to keep water off the string bed is also a preventative measure, for durability
-dont let your wet shirt lay on it too long, etc....

 

[shamaho]

Instead of replying to a thread that has been dormant for 12 years, why dont you just make a new thread?

Hi! my idea is to keep ideas centralized instead of scattering across a number of different threads.

But... I'd be delighted if you pointed me in the direction of pros/cons of : new threads vs old threads
maybe there's such a thread already ?

 

[shamaho]

UPDATE: Gut on crosses:

At this point the stringbed has had about 5h of play - still feels and plays great and no apparent tension loss (purely subjective based on feel). Great comfort and power and feel are it's main benefits - character of "gut" is more present now.

Here's a snapshot of the stringbed after the 5h - with no cleaning / treatment whatsoaver:

Shared album from Shafik

Tap to view!

photos.app.goo.gl

So i decided to clean it up a bit and treat it with some grease (used to trat leathers, I dunno, some hope that the string will absorb some of that grease):

Shared album from Shafik

Tap to view!

photos.app.goo.gl

UPDATE on 6 hours of use:

Ok, I finally understand why Gut in the crosses is a terrible waste - has nothing to do with feel or loss of it.

I has to do with power & spin - it's all gone !

Given the gut crosses being somewhat grated (which is only natural), there is NONE movement of the poly mains as the friction is too high - consequently the confort is there but the effort on the shots just to get the ball across is HUGE...

The gut cross can still slide across the poly (but not the other way around) hence gut in the main would still retain that movement ability.

Conclusion: Nat Gut in the mains please. Gut in the crosses only works for the Pro's who use it for a few games.

End of N=1 experiment.