Can someone please point me to the data that quantifies gut/poly hybrids as providing the greatest inherent spin potential when it comes to hybrid setups? Any links, studies, previous threads, books? I've seen many posts that say gut mains/poly crosses provides the greatest spin potential but nothing quantifying that claim.
Gut/Poly Hybrid Spin Potential Data
- Thread starter Gemini
- Start date
Gut/poly will never provide much spin as fullbed shaped poly. Never.
Hence, why I asked for the data relative to hybrids and not full poly setups. A gut hybrid probably provides the greatest level of comfort available but I'm curious to see data that shows gut/poly is top of the line when trying to maximize comfort and spin potential.
JustTennis76
Hall of Fame
This statement maybe true for a player who is only focused and obsessed with spin. I find gut/poly(gut mains of course) to be superior to full poly inGut/poly will never provide much spin as fullbed shaped poly. Never.
1) Play duration
2)Tension maintenance
3)Comfort
4)Cost(full poly needs frequent restringing which adds cost over the long haul)
5)Time (time it takes for restringing jobs from #4)
I will take all the above benefits of gut/poly over full poly even if the spin potential is less(honestly my game and strokes can't get tell a big difference between the 2 setups).
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
I’ve been tinkering with strings for 20 years and I have to now agree with you totally.
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liftordie
Hall of Fame
Yes, I am obsessed with spin. Totally.
I learned tennis on clay when I was young and I still play on this wonderful and best surface.
I play from baseline with lot of spin, or slice, from all side and I don't really know what is a volley! Also my serve is only a big kick with max spin I can do.
So yes, without spin, my pleasure with tennis would never be the same.....
What is your age and level, please.
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
Gut/poly will never provide much spin as fullbed shaped poly. Never.
Though, Fed's BH slice has the most measured spin of any groundstroke
https://www.tennisplayer.net/public/avancedtennis/john_yandell/modern_pro_slice_1/
I've used non-poly/poly hybrids before excluding gut/poly and the instances where I can tell the spin potential are when I'm serving and when I'm hitting passing shots. The full poly definitely gives me that little something extra when I'm stretched out on the pass and have to snap through a shot. That being said, I'm interested in the numbers behind a gut/poly hybrid for all the reasons you mentioned.
stephenclown
Professional
Federers top recorded forehard was 10% less spin that Nadal with a more neutral modified eastern forehand and 600rpm less of average when he plays a much flatter game. Thiem hits as much or more spin than Nadal with gut mains/poly cross in an 18x20 frame...
"So, statistics apparently confirm that Thiem's 3577rpm, 135km/h forehand is on average faster AND has more topspin on it than Nadal's forehand."
Most players at the club level couldn't dream of hitting 50% of the spin of Nadal/Thiem with an effective stroke. mechanics should be the number one goal, not spin.
What does shaped poly do? A very minimal change if anything at all by itself. Think about how a ball comes off the strings, the shaped poly may stop the ball spinning faster but cannot impart more spin than the stroke mechanics allow. The best strings for spin potential on TWU rely heavily on very low levels of friction between the strings as the sliding does most of the work. This is why Gut/poly has the best spin of any hybrid, which was the original question, the strings are able to move a lot and snap back well so you don't have to adjust them all the time.
Gut/gut doesn't slide well, same as gut/multi or gut/syn. Poly/gut also locks up faster because the cross strings notch and restrict the mains movement. Poly/multi and syn have the same issues.
"So, statistics apparently confirm that Thiem's 3577rpm, 135km/h forehand is on average faster AND has more topspin on it than Nadal's forehand."
Most players at the club level couldn't dream of hitting 50% of the spin of Nadal/Thiem with an effective stroke. mechanics should be the number one goal, not spin.
What does shaped poly do? A very minimal change if anything at all by itself. Think about how a ball comes off the strings, the shaped poly may stop the ball spinning faster but cannot impart more spin than the stroke mechanics allow. The best strings for spin potential on TWU rely heavily on very low levels of friction between the strings as the sliding does most of the work. This is why Gut/poly has the best spin of any hybrid, which was the original question, the strings are able to move a lot and snap back well so you don't have to adjust them all the time.
Gut/gut doesn't slide well, same as gut/multi or gut/syn. Poly/gut also locks up faster because the cross strings notch and restrict the mains movement. Poly/multi and syn have the same issues.
liftordie
Hall of Fame
THAT is the TRUTH.
I will try Hyper G 17, Ultra Cable and Black Out pretty soon. And if my arm say no, I will try to cross them with Pro Stacked, Vanquish or OGSM (or another great slick cross if you know it...).
And if it is too harsh again or feeling not there, I will definitely go for VS Touch (or Tonic+) 16/Max Power 17, and stop seeking the "perfect" string or hybrid... Because VS/MP is certainly the one.
SavvyStringer
Professional
I don't know that they provide more spin. In my personal experience I find more comfort and free power. I play gut mains, poly cross in the winter to soften the string bed in the cold. I believe poly mains are your best potential for spin no matter the cross.
liftordie
Hall of Fame
Gut mains in the cold?? Strange... And cross for poly is VERY important if you want good snapback without poly mains locked......
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
I think gut mains and poly mains offer minimal differences in spin and gut offers superior feel. There's a reason a lot of pros use Gut/poly. If all poly was superior in all performance respects no pro would touch gut.
You need the mains to grab the ball. Gut was the best grabbing string for ages before shaped and textured polys and probably still is damn close. You need the mains to also slide across the crosses which is mostly provided by the smooth poly cross.
So all poly might offer a modest spin benefit these days, it is probably overshadowed by gut/poly in the realm of feel, tension maintenance, and comfort. Costs are probably similar unless you love playing dead poly.
And I guess that's why I'm asking to see the data. There are claims out there touting the spin potential of gut/poly vs various other hybrid setups but I'm having a difficult time locating any real objective data.
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liftordie
Hall of Fame
That is for sure the best argument. BUT how long would last VS 16/Max Power 17 in my Pure Aero with my spin game...??
I have two frames and I play near 5 hours per week, and more when in tournament. Only on clay. I have 40yo and my level is 4.0/4.5.
How many time you all think VS 16/MP 17 could last?
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
Clay decreases the life of gut. VS/MP would last longer on hard courts than clay.
I'm on my first stringjob of Tonic, but have used ToughGut in the past (similar to Tonic/VS), and get 15-20 hours out of ToughGut 1.25/MP 1.25 on hard court.
liftordie
Hall of Fame
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
Logic......
So you think VS/MP would last 10 hours max on clay?
That would be my guess, but I have only played on "green" clay (Har-Tru) and not red clay. Gut/poly for me has about half the life on Har-Tru green clay as it does on hard court.
liftordie
Hall of Fame
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
Ok.... Bye bye gut/poly.......
It's probably worth a try, but just don't get your hopes up too much on clay...
If you do try VS/MP, please report back on how long it lasted you!
liftordie
Hall of Fame
50€ for a report? No.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Ok.... Bye bye gut/poly.......
50€ for a report? No.
If you want to save a buck the use Tonic 15g. It will last longer on clay than VS and give you a pretty similar performance. Best of the budget guts IMO.
liftordie
Hall of Fame
If it is really the case, why not everybody use it?...
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Because some people are pickier than others.
Its a world of polarity. Something either sucks or is the greatest thing ever. So picky players won't play with anything less than premium gut like VS, Luxilon. And cheap players will just by budget guts like Legend, Pacific gut and say they are just as good.
Then there are those of us that see grey in the world and are fine spending less for a second tier gut but don't want to drop all the way down to 3rd tier guts.
liftordie
Hall of Fame
Tonic 15g is the longevity version, right?
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
liftordie
Hall of Fame
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
You assume right!!
But I have read that the longevity is really heavy.... No??
I haven't used Longevity but am currently playing with Tonic Ball Feel <135. It is playing really well with MaxPower 17 crosses.
I bought some Tonic Longevity and am going to string it up next to see how it compares to Tonic Ball Feel.
My favorite gut strings are 1.25 Pacific Tough Gut, but they are currently out of production, so I'm trying out Tonic as a potential replacement.
If by "heavy" you mean that they weigh more, the difference in a hybrid should only be a gram or so, which would be a couple of swingweight units...
liftordie
Hall of Fame
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
Some pretty good deals on LUXILON Gut going right now if you check around.
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