Gut/Poly or Poly/Gut Advice

Jay Winzenz

New User
My daughter plays a power tennis game. She is currently playing a Wilson FST Burn 95 strung with Revolve mains at 54 lbs and OG sheep micro crosses at 51lbs. She is having some arm issues, but changing racquets is a non-starter. She needs an arm-friendly combination that can control the power. I realize poly is inherently harder on arms, but she seems to need it to control the power. Thinking about trying a Gut/Poly or Poly/Gut hybrid. Perhaps Klip Legend with 4G. Interested in other thoughts on strings and tensions. If I use Gut mains, what tension should I string at to maintain lower power? Same with Gut crosses? Thanks for the advice.
 

fundrazer

G.O.A.T.
Like it or not she might have to switch racquets at some point. Those burns are too stiff.

Gut/revolve hybrid would probably be a good choice, I've seen @SpinToWin and some others recommending revolve as a cross. It's on my list of things to try along with poly tour fire and luxilon element crosses. As for tension...I dunno. I think my stringer goofed and went 54/54 when I asked for 54/52, but it's been a good setup for me. Haven't had any major issues with control...but your daughter probably hits bigger than I do. Maybe bump her tension up to like 58/56 or something like that.
 

emn8

Rookie
If changing racquets is not an option then Gut hybrid is a good way to go. In my RF97A which is quite stiff and powerful I had been using Gut mains (VS) and 4G at 58/53. Tames the power whilst providing decent comfort and control. Tension maintenance of 4G is excellent and it's quite slick so playability and durability is pretty good. You could swap 4G for something softer or try Max Power which provides almost as good performance as 4G

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Hansen

Professional
it would be better to switch racquets, because the revolve /ogsm combo isn´t that bad for the arm.
in a poly mains / gut crosses setup the poly still dominates, and gut in the mains will be too powerful.
 

Jay Winzenz

New User
I hear you all about changing racquets, and I've tried. I have several Angels that I had hoped she would connect with, but to no avail. I'd like her to try the Ultra Tour now that it's out, but she is now in the middle of her senior high school season so that is why it is a non-starter. I appreciate the advice so far, keep it coming.
 

CopolyX

Hall of Fame
Double check her form, have a good coach verify this.
Video and analyze if you can also.
I would suggest a full bed of natural gut.
Or adding a sync gut with high spin potential (mainly for low string to string COF) ..Babolat Origin is great option. There are others...
It can also stand alone in a full bed.
Or ever hybridizing with natually gut.

I would stay away from copolys, her arms will be much healthier. More impact protection...
 

fundrazer

G.O.A.T.
Go the same set up at 48/52. If you go gut, put the gut in the crosses at 48/52. There is a reason that a large number of women on the pro tour play with poly mains and gut crosses. Controllable power and easy on the arm. Kerber, Wozniacki, Keys, Jankovic, Lisicki to name a few. It will last longer with the tensions mentioned but you can go 48/50 or 50/52. Allot of them go couple of lbs difference but they only play a set with each set of strings. (Keys actually uses NXT in crosses but same principle, she has had wrist problems) have seen a couple of 12's-14's juniors playing poly/gut at 44/48. May be the best thing for a kid with a developing arm.

Think it's gut mains for Kerber actually. Was actually hoping to try the same setup at some point with gut/poly tour fire crosses.
 

Hansen

Professional
the most important step is to get rid of poly mains, because the mains dominate the stringbed and therefore also comfort.
if you use gut mains you have to use a low powered poly to really take the power out of this setup, and a stiff poly cross (even with gut mains) is maybe already too harsh for an injured arm (don´t know what armproblems your daughter has exactly). maybe a control oriented multi mains with a soft/medium stiff poly cross is an option, because multis are less powerfull than gut.
so in my opinion there are two options:
low powered gut mains / low powered poly crosses; for example: babolat tonic 1.40 (mains) and maybe rs lyon 1,25mm (crosses)
low powerd multi mains / low powered comfortable poly crosses; for example: prince premier control (mains) and isospeed cream (crosses)
 

Chipnkick

Rookie
Don't ruin the entire season. Change now while you can still adapt. If you must, go with gut/poly at low tension. Gut/zyex might be the best option
 

KaiserW

Hall of Fame
You could try a full bed of NXT Control. Even though it is a multi it has pretty spin and control. It actually has strands of poly woven into it but it is very comfortable.

Only downside it is a little pricey. I used this string in my Pure Drive Tour because I was afraid to use poly in this stiff frame.

If you try gut I would recommend in the mains with a soft poly cross. Yes it will be more powerful but I feel gut/poly offers controllable power.

I am using Pacific Classic 17/Revolve 17, it is a nice setup. Have also used Tourna Black Zone and Yonex Poly Tour Pro, all of these are on the softer side.
 

Traffic

Hall of Fame
You could try a full bed of NXT Control. Even though it is a multi it has pretty spin and control. It actually has strands of poly woven into it but it is very comfortable.

Only downside it is a little pricey. I used this string in my Pure Drive Tour because I was afraid to use poly in this stiff frame.

If you try gut I would recommend in the mains with a soft poly cross. Yes it will be more powerful but I feel gut/poly offers controllable power.

I am using Pacific Classic 17/Revolve 17, it is a nice setup. Have also used Tourna Black Zone and Yonex Poly Tour Pro, all of these are on the softer side.
Not sure if NXT Control lasts longer than NXT Power. But the Power variant would fray to death in 2 weeks.

In terms of control and spin, I'm finding good luck with gut/poly. Legend/Cream would be a great combo. At this moment, it's a bit on the powerful side for me. But I can see trying again with a slightly higher tension to tone down the power just a smidge. VS is already there being slightly down on power. But it has a "crisper" feel to it. So might possibly find Legend to be a touch more comfortable.

How old is your daughter? I think you need to see a physical therapist and get that looked at closely.
My son developed tendonitis in shoulders due to too much serve practice after coming off a break (school vacation and being sick). He had to see a PT for 6 weeks and refrain from serving and OHs. But was able to nurse back to full health.

How long has Revolve been in her racquet? My sister developed wrist issues after a while and I'm sure having Revolve/sgut in her racquet for 6+months didn't help issues any.

Also, could the racquet be too heavy? Too light?

In either case, unless you can go full multi (maybe Head Velocity) and the pain doesn't go away, then it's time to seek professional help and find out what the real problem is.
 

iChen

Semi-Pro
Not sure if NXT Control lasts longer than NXT Power. But the Power variant would fray to death in 2 weeks.

In terms of control and spin, I'm finding good luck with gut/poly. Legend/Cream would be a great combo. At this moment, it's a bit on the powerful side for me. But I can see trying again with a slightly higher tension to tone down the power just a smidge. VS is already there being slightly down on power. But it has a "crisper" feel to it. So might possibly find Legend to be a touch more comfortable.

How do you like Gut/Poly compared to NXTs? I'm finding NXT too powerful....but it's comfortable and I don't know if I want to switch :(
 

Traffic

Hall of Fame
How do you like Gut/Poly compared to NXTs? I'm finding NXT too powerful....but it's comfortable and I don't know if I want to switch :(
I've not played much with NXT Power. My son was the one that was burning through it.
I know that Velocity is quite a bit down on power compared to a lot of poly. And my gut/poly is UP on power compared with Velocity. I want to believe that I can tune some of that power with the tension of the gut. The poly provides the deadening affect to keep the power in check as well.

Have you tried upping the tension on NXT?
 

Notirouswithag

Professional
How do you like Gut/Poly compared to NXTs? I'm finding NXT too powerful....but it's comfortable and I don't know if I want to switch :(

I'm using NXT comfort and it isnt as powerful as the regular NXT, but it is very comfortable and smooth with my ALU power hybrid. Only thing I hate is the fraying/durabillity is crap
 

iChen

Semi-Pro
I've not played much with NXT Power. My son was the one that was burning through it.
I know that Velocity is quite a bit down on power compared to a lot of poly. And my gut/poly is UP on power compared with Velocity. I want to believe that I can tune some of that power with the tension of the gut. The poly provides the deadening affect to keep the power in check as well.

Have you tried upping the tension on NXT?

I have it at 59 for tension on my Pro Staff 97. Might try NXT Control then.
 

dimbmw

Rookie
My daughter plays a power tennis game. She is currently playing a Wilson FST Burn 95 strung with Revolve mains at 54 lbs and OG sheep micro crosses at 51lbs. She is having some arm issues, but changing racquets is a non-starter. She needs an arm-friendly combination that can control the power. I realize poly is inherently harder on arms, but she seems to need it to control the power. Thinking about trying a Gut/Poly or Poly/Gut hybrid. Perhaps Klip Legend with 4G. Interested in other thoughts on strings and tensions. If I use Gut mains, what tension should I string at to maintain lower power? Same with Gut crosses? Thanks for the advice.

Use VS gut in mains at 50lbs and revolve in crosses at 45lbs. It is what my daugter is using on dr-98, (and her stringbed size is 98, not 95, so you could go even lower). To control power (my daughter has plenty, too), it is better to use spin. And don't use Klip Legend, inferior quality and longevity comparing to Babolat VS.

PS and don't forget to restring after about 5 hours of hitting.
 

Traffic

Hall of Fame
Use VS gut in mains at 50lbs and revolve in crosses at 45lbs. It is what my daugter is using on dr-98, (and her stringbed size is 98, not 95, so you could go even lower). To control power (my daughter has plenty, too), it is better to use spin. And don't use Klip Legend, inferior quality and longevity comparing to Babolat VS.

PS and don't forget to restring after about 5 hours of hitting.
Does your daughter really fray the hell out of gut after 5hrs of hitting? Even my son takes 10hrs to fray multi in a 18x16 spin effect pattern. He'll notch and break 18g HyperG in 12hrs.

My VS has over 15hrs and other than light fraying, hits very consistently.
 

dimbmw

Rookie
Does your daughter really fray the hell out of gut after 5hrs of hitting? Even my son takes 10hrs to fray multi in a 18x16 spin effect pattern. He'll notch and break 18g HyperG in 12hrs.

My VS has over 15hrs and other than light fraying, hits very consistently.


It is not fraiying, it is DT that drops from initial 37-38 to around 29, which makes the racket unplayable.
 

g4driver

Legend
Have you tried NXT Control? It is less powerful than the regular.

And has NXT control has poly fibers in in just like HEAD FXP and Technibre HDX Tour. Personally I think HDX tour and NXT control are very close in nature.

Head FXP is extremely slick unlike any other multi.
 

g4driver

Legend
Use VS gut in mains at 50lbs and revolve in crosses at 45lbs. It is what my daugter is using on dr-98, (and her stringbed size is 98, not 95, so you could go even lower). To control power (my daughter has plenty, too), it is better to use spin. And don't use Klip Legend, inferior quality and longevity comparing to Babolat VS.

PS and don't forget to restring after about 5 hours of hitting.

Curious the level of play of your daughter.
 

dimbmw

Rookie
Does your daughter really fray the hell out of gut after 5hrs of hitting? Even my son takes 10hrs to fray multi in a 18x16 spin effect pattern. He'll notch and break 18g HyperG in 12hrs.

My VS has over 15hrs and other than light fraying, hits very consistently.


Just a couple of pics how it looks after about 5 hrs of hitting. In fact it does not look that bad, other than one or two frayed mains, but DT dropped to 29 already, so have to restring. In fact maybe head sonic pro is not the best choice for crosses, as it seems to be elongating too much too soon, i don't know.

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g4driver

Legend
When I string a Yonex DR98 or Yonex Rdis 100 (actually a 98 inch frame) at 55 lbs on a constant pull machine Alpha Ghost, the ERT 300 reads 37 Dynamic Tenuson immediately off the stringer. The player is among the best 4.0 men in town and out of the nearly 300 4.0 men in town is a among the select few chosen by 5.5 men to play 9.5 combo. There are less than 10 4.0 guys in town playing 9.5 combo out of nearly 300 men. He plays effectively with full poly for a month then restrings.

IMO,You have been wasting your money restringing your daughter's frame so quickly.

First piece of advice :

1) change the crosses to something that holds tension better (Lux 4 G is the best poly for that but I hate the string and use Head Hawk personally)

2) string the gut and crosses at a higher tension.

I personally string a lot of Guy/Poly hybrids and string them from 52M to 58M depending on the player. 57M/55X is what I use for myself and a 4.5 lady using the same Wilson Natural Gut 16g / Head Hawk 17g and the strings for 2 months. I am a 4.0 guy who has a tennisrecord projected dntrp of over 3.95. Schmke has me over the threshold to be bumped to 4.5. Whether bumped or not, that gives you an idea of my level of play.

Here is something you might watch and read:

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/reviewvideo.html?pcode=PTG16&vid=JJI9-e8U5_E

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/PTG16/PTG16Review.html

Andy Gertz is an open level player who recently left TW and when he play-tested Pacific Tough Gut / Kevlar he broke the Kevlar first. Read that again.

IMO, there is no reason to restring "about 5 hours " for any rec player or junior player using gut hybrids. Poly / gut or gut / poly.

Gut holds tension longer than any string. Pick a better cross, string higher tension and your daughter's strings will last much longer.
 

Traffic

Hall of Fame
IMO,You have been wasting your money restringing your daughter's frame so quickly.

First piece of advice :

1) change the crosses to something that holds tension better (Lux 4 G is the best poly for that but I hate the string and use Head Hawk personally)

2) string the gut and crosses at a higher tension.


I personally string a lot of Guy/Poly hybrids and string them from 52M to 58M depending on the player. 57M/55X is what I use for myself and a 4.5 lady using the same Wilson Natural Gut 16g / Head Hawk 17g and the strings for 2 months.
I'll second that.

I've just started using gut/poly after a lot of experimentation on poly and poly/sgut hybrids. I've come to really enjoy gut/poly. I'm not sure how your DT meter reads in comparison to RT. But my RT readings are in the low 50s when strung 57/51 with VS/Cream (I'm actually thinking of upping the tension in the gut 2# to try to lower the power just a hair on my next stringing). I have about 3# drop from initial stringing and then there it stays. Cream (and some others) have very good tension maintenance making them a great cross to tame the gut. It's also one of the softest "poly" available with good tension maintenance.
 

dimbmw

Rookie
When I string a Yonex DR98 or Yonex Rdis 100 (actually a 98 inch frame) at 55 lbs on a constant pull machine Alpha Ghost, the ERT 300 reads 37 Dynamic Tenuson immediately off the stringer. The player is among the best 4.0 men in town and out of the nearly 300 4.0 men in town is a among the select few chosen by 5.5 men to play 9.5 combo. There are less than 10 4.0 guys in town playing 9.5 combo out of nearly 300 men. He plays effectively with full poly for a month then restrings.

IMO,You have been wasting your money restringing your daughter's frame so quickly.

First piece of advice :

1) change the crosses to something that holds tension better (Lux 4 G is the best poly for that but I hate the string and use Head Hawk personally)

2) string the gut and crosses at a higher tension.

I personally string a lot of Guy/Poly hybrids and string them from 52M to 58M depending on the player. 57M/55X is what I use for myself and a 4.5 lady using the same Wilson Natural Gut 16g / Head Hawk 17g and the strings for 2 months. I am a 4.0 guy who has a tennisrecord projected dntrp of over 3.95. Schmke has me over the threshold to be bumped to 4.5. Whether bumped or not, that gives you an idea of my level of play.

Here is something you might watch and read:

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/reviewvideo.html?pcode=PTG16&vid=JJI9-e8U5_E

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/PTG16/PTG16Review.html

Andy Gertz is an open level player who recently left TW and when he play-tested Pacific Tough Gut / Kevlar he broke the Kevlar first. Read that again.

IMO, there is no reason to restring "about 5 hours " for any rec player or junior player using gut hybrids. Poly / gut or gut / poly.

Gut holds tension longer than any string. Pick a better cross, string higher tension and your daughter's strings will last much longer.



The reason to have a softer poly in crosses is because she had a wrist surgery this year and I don't want her to reinjury herself and give her more time to heal. This is also the reason why I don't want to go higher in tension. I use Prince Neos 1500 + wise 286 constant pull attachment and the rackets come off at 37-38 DT. If I'll go higher thaey will probably be too unplayable. I want the rackets to stay longer around DT=35, which seems to be the optimum, but I don't know how to achieve that without making the stringbed stiffer initially.

I like the idea of trying a different poly for crosses, but luxilon seems to be stiffer than sonic pro and wilson revolve as per tennis warehouse web site - it is around 200ish vs 160ish for sonic pro and revolve. If there are any ideas on more durable crosses that have low stiffnes - I am willing to try these, but I guess stiffness and durability come together.
 

dimbmw

Rookie
I'll second that.

I've just started using gut/poly after a lot of experimentation on poly and poly/sgut hybrids. I've come to really enjoy gut/poly. I'm not sure how your DT meter reads in comparison to RT. But my RT readings are in the low 50s when strung 57/51 with VS/Cream (I'm actually thinking of upping the tension in the gut 2# to try to lower the power just a hair on my next stringing). I have about 3# drop from initial stringing and then there it stays. Cream (and some others) have very good tension maintenance making them a great cross to tame the gut. It's also one of the softest "poly" available with good tension maintenance.


Cream has durability of about 79 as per TW scale: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/reviews/ISOCREAM16/ISOCREAM16review.html

Head sonic Pro is 82: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/reviews/SONIC17/SONIC17review.html


So sonic pro is more durable than cream if the TW data is accurate. So why use cream then?
 

g4driver

Legend
I am actually wondering if some pre-stretching of the poly can help.

Isospeed Cream is prestretched and pretty soft. I recommended it for a lady who uses 17g Lux Gut 54M/ Head Hawk Touch 17g 50X.

She has elbow issues and complains if the tension too high or cross is to stiff.

Next time I will try Isospeed Cream 50X in the crosses but she doesn't complain with Hawk Touch 17g
 

Sardines

Hall of Fame
Don't just look at the %. Look for what tension it was strung at as well. Polys tend to have a range of tension they lose. For eg, Cyclone 19g loses 17-20lbs, regardless of what tension strung.

As for playing with arm pain, the problem with changing strings to a plusher, more powerful gut instead of multi is she may lose control of the ball and have a longer adjustment period. I would suggest you go to a soft co-poly, maybe like a Cyclone Tour 18 or similar. The power change would not be as high and she may get a bit more power and require less effort. You just have to spend a few sets of string to tweak the tension to adjust for her game. Power players like to hit out. A 2-3% increase in power, and 10-15% decrease in stiffness is easier to adjust to than 5+% increase in power, and a 30% decrease in stiffness. Good luck.
My daughter plays a power tennis game. She is currently playing a Wilson FST Burn 95 strung with Revolve mains at 54 lbs and OG sheep micro crosses at 51lbs. She is having some arm issues, but changing racquets is a non-starter. She needs an arm-friendly combination that can control the power. I realize poly is inherently harder on arms, but she seems to need it to control the power. Thinking about trying a Gut/Poly or Poly/Gut hybrid. Perhaps Klip Legend with 4G. Interested in other thoughts on strings and tensions. If I use Gut mains, what tension should I string at to maintain lower power? Same with Gut crosses? Thanks for the advice.
 

Yoneyama

Hall of Fame
I have Klip Legend mains 56pounds / Alu Power rough crosses 52pounds in a Yonex Vcore DuelG 310 and it is extremely comfortable to play with in my opinion. A very noticable increase in power compared to my previous two setups, but also a lot more control. Previous two setups : Wilson NXT 58pounds, Kirshbaum Black Shark 60 pounds.
 
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