Gut/Poly - when the poly goes dead

[JesterMania]

I've done a search but it seems nobody has mentioned much about this type of setup going "dead" after a while.

What's the effect of this setup when the poly cross goes dead in a gut/poly hybrid? Everyone knows that gut is the most arm-friendly string but in a gut/poly setup, will this turn into an arm killer once the poly "expires"? Additionally, will control or spin be lost once the poly goes dead?

 

[ambro]

I have a good example of this, have a Technifibre 320 with Klip Armour Pro mains with Redcode crosses, don't really remember the tension (around 58 I think) but I strung it at least 3 years ago. Took a while off of tennis to focus on university studies, and have started playing again recently. The crosses surely have to be considered "dead" by this point, but the mains are as good as new, with just slight notching.

To be honest it doesn't play all that bad, I can tell the crosses are old, but the longevity of the gut mains masks this effect a lot. I spray the balls a little more than I should be, but that could easily be contributed to my extended hiatus from the game, rather than the strings. Obviously this is an extreme case, and I plan to restring it soon, but if my setup is still playing well after 3 years, you shouldn't worry about the crosses going dead. Unless you are playing at a high competitive level, I don't see the need to worry about poly crosses going dead as long as you have gut in the mains. Play it until it breaks.

As far as spin/control, like I said the control might have dropped slightly, but I still have decent placement for having taken such a long break. And I think the spin is slightly enhanced. Tough to compare since it's been a while since this was fresh, but it definitely seems like I get a little more spin.

 

[2Hare]

I've done a search but it seems nobody has mentioned much about this type of setup going "dead" after a while.

What's the effect of this setup when the poly cross goes dead in a gut/poly hybrid? Everyone knows that gut is the most arm-friendly string but in a gut/poly setup, will this turn into an arm killer once the poly "expires"? Additionally, will control or spin be lost once the poly goes dead?

I think a lot of people get confused with the string bed going dead with increase in stringbed friction. When this setup is notched, the gut mains will have trouble sliding, thus decreasing the spin/control and consistency of shots. Thus I strongly recommend lubricating the stringbed after each hitting session. Make sure each mains could be slide smoothly when pulled.

From my experience, you don't lose much control when this setup goes dead, just lose power and comfort. Yes you will experience discomfort when it dies, smaller sweetspot, and loss of power. But control and spin would still be good if the stringbed is properly lubricated, thanks to the excellent tension maintenance of gut powering the spins of the shots.

 

[McLovin]

I've been using the gut/poly mix for over 5 years now, and until recently, the ball would start to fly on me after 6-8 matches (or 10-12 hours of play). Whether that was a factor of the poly losing tension or not, I'm not sure, but I definitely noticed a difference when I picked up a fresh frame.

Now, over the last month I've switched from Topspin Concept Pure (with a brief stint of SPPP) to MSV Co. Focus (1.23mm), and can now get double the time before any feeling of the ball flying occurs. In fact, I just cut out my last set because the gut was on the verge of breaking and I'm on my way down to VA Beach for my 4.5 Districts tournament this weekend. Otherwise, I would have kept playing until it broke.

 

[TimothyO]

It depends on the poly.

Some go dead and can threaten arm health pretty fast.

Others (eg CoFocus) become softer with time until control might become an issue.

The longest lived poly cross I've found so far is CoFocus.

Currently I'm experimenting with some "slick, nearly monofilament multifilaments". The idea is to find a cross that lasts even longer than CoFocus.

For example, I've had good results with TNT2 Rx 17 in place of the poly cross. Initially I'm trying locally available stuff then I'll start ordering other brands from TW. Next up is TNT2 18: very thick, monofilament-like core, thick outer wraps, slick pearl coating. It's also as stiff as some soft co-polys.

 

[JesterMania]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm actually going to use Co-Focus as the cross as I bought 3 packs for TW. I happen to have a pack of VS Touch on hand so will give this setup a try. The reason I asked was because:

1) I'm not much of a string breaker
2) I want a spin and arm-friendly setup
3) I want to maximize gut durability and I read gut/poly makes the gut last longer than a full bed

 

[Love50]

I use gut/poly and typically cut out the strings when the poly crosses are done. I consider the crosses done when
- the stiffness of the string bed goes up (so yes, polys that stiffen will affect a tender arm)
- the bite of the string bed goes down (e.g. shaped polys)
- the string bed starts to trampoline (e.g. Polystar Energy)

Some thinner gauge polys will actually start flattening and cause the mains to not snapback into position. If this happens, eventually the crosses will shear.

In most cases, the gut is still in good shape with light notching. About 10-20 hours depending on specific hybrid and type of play. This only applies to Babolat and Pacific coated guts. Klip shows a lot more wear in my experience.

 

[AndrewID]

I use gut/poly and typically cut out the strings when the poly crosses are done. I consider the crosses done when
- the stiffness of the string bed goes up (so yes, polys that stiffen will affect a tender arm)
- the bite of the string bed goes down (e.g. shaped polys)
- the string bed starts to trampoline (e.g. Polystar Energy)

sorry, maybe stupid Q: why do not to use syngut or multi for crosses? why all talking about only about poly as cross??? i dont want to cut each time expencive gut when poly goes dead

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

sorry, maybe stupid Q: why do not to use syngut or multi for crosses? why all talking about only about poly as cross??? i dont want to cut each time expencive gut when poly goes dead

Because the smoothness of poly's surface allow gut to move/snap-back more efficiently. That's the theory anyway.

But for me, gut/poly provide the perfect blend of soft/comfort (gut) and baseball bat (poly) feel.

 

[JesterMania]

sorry, maybe stupid Q: why do not to use syngut or multi for crosses? why all talking about only about poly as cross??? i dont want to cut each time expencive gut when poly goes dead

The slickness of poly on the crosses allows the elastic gut to slide and snap back on the mains. It's also possible with slick nylon/multi but the issue I've experienced is that these strings do not typically stay slick like poly after repeated use. Nylon gets rough and notches easily while multi begins to fray.

Another reason is that poly is inherently low-powered, which is great for people who do not need much of the extra power a full bed of gut brings. If you cross gut with nylon/multi, you are still keeping much of the power of a full bed of gut, which is not what I want as I generate my own power.

 

[levy1]

It depends on the poly.

Some go dead and can threaten arm health pretty fast.

Others (eg CoFocus) become softer with time until control might become an issue.

The longest lived poly cross I've found so far is CoFocus.

Currently I'm experimenting with some "slick, nearly monofilament multifilaments". The idea is to find a cross that lasts even longer than CoFocus.

For example, I've had good results with TNT2 Rx 17 in place of the poly cross. Initially I'm trying locally available stuff then I'll start ordering other brands from TW. Next up is TNT2 18: very thick, monofilament-like core, thick outer wraps, slick pearl coating. It's also as stiff as some soft co-polys.

How long does your co focus last in that setup?

 

[garywsyu]

it won't tell "dead" before it breaks. replace it regularly to maintain a good form.

please share your experience on this combo(gut/poly) would break your arm!!

 

[kazamzaa]

lubricate your gut/poly

I went back to full gut from m heavenly gut/poly setup because of some minor sensations in my elbow. Now a few days ago my stringer messed up and made me a gut/poly again, when I asked for a full gut. Anyway I did not make him replace them because I was tempted to play with gut/poly again.
It was vsTouch/Hurricane pro 18 strung at 62/59 lbs in a RDiS100 16x19 (way higher than it shoud be strung). After hitting 2 hours on clay with success the gut did not slide along the poly. It was sticky. It was difficult to straighten the mains using my fingers. So I rubbed massage oil (100% almond oil) on the stringbed and moved the mains back and forth. The mains slide easily again, and playability is good again.

Tonic/msvCoF at 58/55 dit not get sticky at any point. I'll string them in next week. But if the mains stop sliding easily, I'll just put some oil on them.

I've read here people oiling their full gut. Maybe I'm being mr. Obvious here, but oiling gut/poly hybrid is a good thing to do if the mains stop sliding.

 

[levy1]

it won't tell "dead" before it breaks. replace it regularly to maintain a good form.

please share your experience on this combo(gut/poly) would break your arm!!

Are you asking about my setup?

 

[Dreamcastin]

if your not a string breaker, just string it all gut. The extra spin from the poly cross is little, and goes away quickly as your poly dies. gut on the other hand just gets more spin friendly as it wears.

 

[TimothyO]

How long does your co focus last in that setup?

Far, far longer than Focus Hex.

I have a friend with VS/CoFocus in a Pure Drive 107. It has been in there for...an entire freakin' year. She's a 3.5 total pusher. Doesn't generate her own pace in any way. Slices everything. The gut is frayed and even though she had wrist, shoulder, and neck problems prior to her switch to VS/CoFocus she has no problem now. The CoFocus is as soft as ever and in the hands of a skilled player it generates insane spin (her slice benefits a lot but she can't hit topspin at all). She loves it and has been to city finals repeatedly this past year in various flex leagues (T2, League, Ultimate).

For me CoFocus lasts a good 12-16 hours unless I break a main. It becomes harder to control as it ages.

 

[TimothyO]

if your not a string breaker, just string it all gut. The extra spin from the poly cross is little, and goes away quickly as your poly dies. gut on the other hand just gets more spin friendly as it wears.

In controlled experiments using the same frame I've observed the oppososite.

Poly crosses make spin casually accessible while full gut demands a lot more focus on technique.

As for poly aging and spin potential it depends on the poly. Poly that is easily bent or dented does indeed lock up and reduce spin potential.

But polys such as CoFocus and Focus Hex retain their surface integrity extremely well. With Focus Hex I've found spin INCREASES over time.

 

[parasailing]

When poly goes dead, I notice it makes a ping sound on my PSTGT. Then it's time to cut it out and restring again to prevent arm issues and though not as good as the first time around, it's still plays at a high level.

 

[UCSF2012]

Mount the racket, cut out the poly, restring the poly. => fresh stringjob.

 

[levy1]

In controlled experiments using the same frame I've observed the oppososite.

Poly crosses make spin casually accessible while full gut demands a lot more focus on technique.

As for poly aging and spin potential it depends on the poly. Poly that is easily bent or dented does indeed lock up and reduce spin potential.

But polys such as CoFocus and Focus Hex retain their surface integrity extremely well. With Focus Hex I've found spin INCREASES over time.

I think I made a mistake using focus hex. I change crosses often and when changing my gut and poly mains I can clearly see the notches in the main strings. I am thinking I should be using a smooth string for the crosses.

 

[TimothyO]

Notches in the mains caused by the crosses can lead to broken mains but they don't always mean lower spin potential.

In a good, low friction gut/poly hybrid the gut slides easily over the poly crosses while the notches in the mains prevent the poly from moving at all. It's almost as if the mains are moving over the crosses on tracks which they are in some ways due to the notches.

Even smooth crosses will notch gut mains. I've tried round poly crosses and even multifilament crosses and they all notched the mains. Poly does it faster but even soft multis like TNT2 Rx notched gut mains.

 

[kazamzaa]

As we know it's important that mains slide easily over the crosses. How about the crosses locking in those gut mains notches? Is it just something that happens and doesn't make things better or worse?
If I understood right, it happens even in your low tension gut/msvCoF.

 

[TimothyO]

As we know it's important that mains slide easily over the crosses. How about the crosses locking in those gut mains notches? Is it just something that happens and doesn't make things better or worse?
If I understood right, it happens even in your low tension gut/msvCoF.

I'm not certain that I understand your first question about crosses locking in those gut mains notches.

Do you mean the notches cut by cross in the gut mains?

Or do you mean potential notches cut by the mains in the crosses?

 

[kazamzaa]

It's just my bad english that is hard to understand.
What I meant to ask was:
The fact that crosses don't slide (over the mains) at all in a gut/poly hybrid has no effect?

The crosses don't slide (over the mains) at all, no matter what kind of gut/poly hybrid?