gut snapping in a weird place.

[stapletonj]

Well, as those familiar with my saga know, I am an old flat hitting doubles guy, playing with a Yonex vcore 100. (the all red one)
discovered gut mains and poly crosses and love it. current setup - Klip 17 ga. gut in mains at 64 lbs./Yonex smooth poly (17 ga.) in crosses at 57 lbs.
Something weird has happened 2X now.

first time, had hit a return for a winner, walking up to receiver's partner position for the next point when I heard and felt a "twang"
sure enough, gut mains had broken, looked like right on a tie off bend at about 5 O'clock position.
OK, maybe I gouged the string with a needle nose awl while tying off or something, but I am usually VERY careful with that.

restring again, same stuff, same pattern, etc. hits really well for about 3 weeks, playing almost daily.
put it in my bag and leave it in my car during the day because it was a less than 80 degree day and my clients don't like to see me carrying in a tennis bag to the office.
never had a problem before with hot car issues....

go to my 6 PM clinic in KY, get wristbands, headbands, out of bag, not hot..... pull out the stick. the mains had broken again, while in the bag, not quite the same location tho'
not on a tie off hole....

eyeballed all the grommets along the bottom (both breaks occurred at about the 5 o'clock position), couldn't see any sharp edges, burrs, split grommets or the like.

Any thoughts on what is going on here?

I am going to go down to 16 ga. in the mains and see if that helps, and yes, I know 64 lbs. is pretty tight, but you gotta string gut pretty tight to avoid slingshot effect.

 

[Rabbit]

@stapletonj - I've experienced the same thing although not with Klip. In my case, it was applying too much force on the knot when tying off. I've learned to just get the knot snug and let her be. Hand tighten only without using a tool such as a starting clamp or needle nose. Since observing this protocol, not one broken set of gut as you describe.

 

[jim e]

Try placing a lube like TRI flow in the grommets. I use a very small drop on a small round microfiber brush, and place in most main string grommets.
That has basically eliminated the snaps at grommet areas with Nat. gut. A big reason is an unclean shot, a mis hit , and string is stressed at grommet but does not snap, but later snaps in bag, as string was stressed You forget about the mis hit as was last outing, and wonder why snap.
Only downside to doing this is to thoroughly cleaning clamps when done. I string a lot of gut and this made a big difference, especially with mis hits snapping gut later.

 

[esgee48]

As part of my racquet cleaning ritual, I first wipe down the frame with 91% alcohol to disinfect. Then I wipe down a 2nd time with mineral spirit or furniture polish. On the 2nd wipedown, I make sure to get the grommet strips, bumper guard and the tubes on the inside. Does exactly what @jim e says it does plus it keeps the plastic pliable.

 

[struggle]

If it lasted 3 weeks, i think it's not a grommet issue....... but it's still possible is guess.

 

[golden chicken]

Remember, even on a 70F degree day, the inside of a car can reach over 110F in an hour. On an 80F day, it can climb over 130F.

 

[McLovin]

If it lasted 3 weeks, i think it's not a grommet issue....... but it's still possible is guess.

I was thinking that as well, although it also depends on how many times in 3 weeks he played.

Also...what playing surface? Clay granules can wedge themselves into funny places.

 

[stapletonj]

hard courts exclusively, playing daily. just starting to get the "hairs" on the mains. I usually get a good 2 months out of a string job before it snaps though and it normally snaps in the middle of a main...

sounds like tri flow and NEVER leaving the racket in the car is the overall answer.

 

[Rabbit]

Yeah, I missed the car part of the OP. Definitely a no no for any racket. It's not only bad for natural gut, it's bad for the graphite in your frame.

@struggle - I guess reading really IS fundamental!!!

 

[Irvin]

gut mains had broken, looked like right on a tie off bend at about 5 O'clock position.

I see videos all the time where stringers tighten the knot by rocking the string back and forth. consider what that does to the anchor string and the string your tying off.

Now comes the time when someone will say I done it hundreds or thousands of times and been lucky so far.

 

[Wes]

Remember, even on a 70F degree day, the inside of a car can reach over 110F in an hour. On an 80F day, it can climb over 130F.

That's exactly what went through my head as I read the initial post.
I'm surprised that nobody else brought this up sooner.

hard courts exclusively, playing daily. just starting to get the "hairs" on the mains. I usually get a good 2 months out of a string job before it snaps though and it normally snaps in the middle of a main...

sounds like tri flow and NEVER leaving the racket in the car is the overall answer.

I think you've, most likely, found the culprit.

However, it still could possibly be linked to some sort of damage caused by your gripper (or even the string clamps themselves).
Your gripper might be doing something (forcing a sharp bend, pinching, etc.) to the string (especially 17g NG) that could possibly cause a weakness at that particular point along the string's length.
Later, that particular section of string could be involved at a grommet (or the transition areas from one grommet to another).

Just something for you to be on the lookout for.


Exactly which machine are you using?
If you happen to be using an electronic machine, are you using the slow(er) pull speed?

When you said "both breaks occurred at about the 5 o'clock position"...
by chance, would you be referring to where the 4th main comes down & transitions to the 5th main (i.e. the first grommets that are not inside of the yoke/throat bridge)?

 

[struggle]

I see videos all the time where stringers tighten the knot by rocking the string back and forth. consider what that does to the anchor string and the string your tying off.

Now comes the time when someone will say I done it hundreds or thousands of times and been lucky so far.

standard practice. you change your opinion like the weather.

 

[esgee48]

That is one of the reasons I still use the DHH to tie off NG. You only need to snug it up to the grommet. I do the same thing with ZX at times because I do not want to break the string tying off.

 

[struggle]

Try placing a lube like TRI flow in the grommets. I use a very small drop on a small round microfiber brush, and place in most main string grommets.
That has basically eliminated the snaps at grommet areas with Nat. gut. A big reason is an unclean shot, a mis hit , and string is stressed at grommet but does not snap, but later snaps in bag, as string was stressed You forget about the mis hit as was last outing, and wonder why snap.
Only downside to doing this is to thoroughly cleaning clamps when done. I string a lot of gut and this made a big difference, especially with mis hits snapping gut later.

So, i've taken to this (i use gut mains)....... but i need to perfect it. I have been spraying silicon lube onto a q-tip. Very wasteful.

Are you using tri-flow in a non-aerosol form and a small brush?

I've really never had an issue (with quality gut, i had small issues with India gut....no big deal), but gonna be preventative going forward.

 

[jim e]

Are you using tri-flow in a non-aerosol form and a small brush.

Yes. I place a very small drop on a very small microfiber round brush that fits inside the grommet. Not very much needed, just a slight amount will lube most of the main string grommets

 

[Rabbit]

@struggle @jim e - this looks like it may fit the bill

Tri-Flow Pin Point Lubricator - StewMac

Luthiers' favorite for lubricating tuners, tools and metal guitar hardware.

www.stewmac.com

 

[jim e]

@struggle @jim e - this looks like it may fit the bill

Tri-Flow Pin Point Lubricator - StewMac

Luthiers' favorite for lubricating tuners, tools and metal guitar hardware.

www.stewmac.com

I have that, but you really don't want to put a great amount in the grommet, I just put a very small drop from that applicator on a small microfiber brush, and that one small drop will do most of the grommets, so not a great amount needed, just to make string not stick to inside of grommet.
It's the shear stress on a string that can cause a snap at grommet from mis hit, and sometimes the string can adhear very well to inside of grommet and the stress from mis hit not allowing string movement stresses string at that point. The line made a very big difference as I do not see early snapping at grommet like I did in past.I still tell new gut customers that mis hits is bad on nat gut strings, and snaps can occur early, but this helped a great amount.

 

[stapletonj]

That's exactly what went through my head as I read the initial post.
I'm surprised that nobody else brought this up sooner.




I think you've, most likely, found the culprit.

However, it still could possibly be linked to some sort of damage caused by your gripper (or even the string clamps themselves).
Your gripper might be doing something (forcing a sharp bend, pinching, etc.) to the string (especially 17g NG) that could possibly cause a weakness at that particular point along the string's length.
Later, that particular section of string could be involved at a grommet (or the transition areas from one grommet to another).

Just something for you to be on the lookout for.


Exactly which machine are you using?
If you happen to be using an electronic machine, are you using the slow(er) pull speed?

When you said "both breaks occurred at about the 5 o'clock position"...
by chance, would you be referring to where the 4th main comes down & transitions to the 5th main (i.e. the first grommets that are not inside of the yoke/throat bridge)?

gamma electronic. slow pull speed. I always test the clamps on the very ends of the strings to make sure I am not setting them either too tight or too loose.
I do use the prestretch feature.

TW - thank you all for your insights!

 

[stapletonj]

PS - I saw where the tri-flow has petroleum distillates in it. Does anybody think that might mess up the gut?

 

[esgee48]

Not in the amount you are using. If you dunk the NG in a bucket of the stuff, it would start to unravel.

 

[stapletonj]

ha ha ha at $16.00 for a little 4 oz. can with micro applicator, I'll forego buying a bucketfull......

 

[esgee48]

Petroleum distillates can mean anything. They don't tell you exactly what it is. Sewing machine oil or mineral spirits (pint size) should also work; even Armour All or decent furniture polish. All you want to do is minimize the chances of the string sticking to the plastic. Part of my stringing ritual is cleaning and inspection. So this should add little if any time to your routine.