Happy 30th Anniversary HEAD Prestige On Tour Since 1986
- Thread starter vsbabolat
- Start date
Maybe they wanted to prepare their customers for the coming change from "Made in Austria" to "Made in Czech Republic" (and eventually leading to "Made in China").
So as to point out that "we haven't been printing it ON the racquets for some time already before we made the move east".
vsbabolat
Talk Tennis Guru
That seems logical
vsbabolat
Talk Tennis Guru
J-Wildcard
Semi-Pro
It was interesting to hear their thoughts on the podcast. I think an Iprestige would be interesting more so cosmetically, as discussed as these frames are a celebration of the heritage. It is a bit of fun, you can tell the Head of R&D has a soft spot for the Radical and that golden era when they took the legend Agassi on board, he must have sold units off the richter scale. They have however reissued a good few Radicals and paid tribute to the line many times now. Unfortunately the legendary Prestige line hadn't had the same attention. Didn't they do a 25th Anniversary Prestige in the form of a black paint job version of the IGMP version that was in production at that time. I wish I had that frame as it was a nice celebration piece. The fear with the Iprestige is would the materials be as good as the original version. If they are going to be high grade reproductions they are going to cost a lot right.
Maybe making the pro stock version (pt57a) available but then it may go down the wilson route of £280-300 per frame. The first prestige I used is the iprestige and I was using an Iradical shortly before which had very similar mould as I recall. Very nice rackets. A safe bet for a resissue would be the head ti radical mp, I think it would still be relevant play and feel wise still. I would love to see something like the prestige 600 as I have little experience with the original prestiges. I am planning to get a pro tour 2.0 though in still holding out for an original pro tour
Maybe making the pro stock version (pt57a) available but then it may go down the wilson route of £280-300 per frame. The first prestige I used is the iprestige and I was using an Iradical shortly before which had very similar mould as I recall. Very nice rackets. A safe bet for a resissue would be the head ti radical mp, I think it would still be relevant play and feel wise still. I would love to see something like the prestige 600 as I have little experience with the original prestiges. I am planning to get a pro tour 2.0 though in still holding out for an original pro tour
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
Well, I wrote i.Prestige Mid (not MP), and the reason I included this iteration of the Mid is its mold is slightly different from the original (PT10).
So I meant to say I think there are basically two racquets which make sense to consider classics worthy of a release as a "retro" stick (Prestige Mid and Radical Tour Oversize) - but what do I know (when it comes to Head's business decisions)?
BTW: Neither a 16x19 PT630/2.0, nor any racquet Djokovic uses would qualify as "retro"...
I guess the word retro depends on what they call the racquet... Being that specific then the Pro Tour 2.0 is not retro as it's not a racquet they released before as it wasn't 58RA, it didn't have Twaron, it wasn't made in Austria... but it was based on a racquet that was released before... so, therefore, a 16x19 version would be retro in the same way...
Ultimately, I don't know what they will do, I don't have a vested interest in a particular model, and I understand what you were trying to say and point out.
When it comes to Head, who knows what they will do... we just have to wait and see. All the best @Alex78 ... and may we all get what we dream about
J-Wildcard
Semi-Pro
It's ashame they have retired the classic prestige mold now in the current line. I haven't hit with the new 360 prestige, maybe as has discussed the prestige mid is due a re issue. I would like to get hold of one. The versions now are very different, maybe an Iprestige mid. I would also be interested to see the original prestige mould issued in a true 98 inch head like the new 360 prestige but with the original characteristics. Maybe a special anniversary issue pairing. Mid and MP as a limited set. Limited run to 200 or 500 pieces with anything limited release it would be nice for it to be issued to buy for tennis fans and true tennis collectors not people profiteering because they want to triple the price they purchase them for a few weeks later.
Seth
Legend
I agree with this, though yet another Bumblebee would be odd to me. Even if they brought back the OG mold, it’s still the third re-release of the cosmetic. I’d still welcome it, I’m just not sure I’d HEAD will go that route.
My money is on the Prestige mid, either PT10 or something close.
vsbabolat
Talk Tennis Guru
I’d be very happy with TGK292.1 with new cosmetics
ProRadTour
Professional
A Zebra re-release would be cool with a twin tube layup
J-Wildcard
Semi-Pro
What is the layup of this one? I was interested in getting an IG prestige mid. Are they stiff frames? I have the IG MP prestige which are pretty soft but I tried a IG Pro prestige and didn't like it, it had a firmer feel which I wasn't a fan of. Its personal taste I guess. Loads I see have been enjoying the gravity frames but they are in big head sizes. It would be nice to an update of a classic with a true 98 head and soft frame but the mid is something I would like to try. I don't think there's many around 2nd hand, I've seen a lot of the standard youtek but not the IG version.
1- I hope not again, they’ve done this too many times.
2- this would be my hope. I love 18x20 frames but I really would like to try this one.
I guess the word retro depends on what they call the racquet... Being that specific then the Pro Tour 2.0 is not retro as it's not a racquet they released before as it wasn't 58RA, it didn't have Twaron, it wasn't made in Austria... but it was based on a racquet that was released before... so, therefore, a 16x19 version would be retro in the same way...
Ultimately, I don't know what they will do, I don't have a vested interest in a particular model, and I understand what you were trying to say and point out.
When it comes to Head, who knows what they will do... we just have to wait and see. All the best @Alex78 ... and may we all get what we dream about
Fully agree, and let's indeed just hope they'll do something nice and not pull such as yet another Bumblebee re-issue but using a different mold from the original...
I'll buy a retro Prestige Mid IF it's labelled as either "600" or "Pro 600"
vsbabolat
Talk Tennis Guru
292.1 is the IG Prestige Mid. It’s soft to modern standards. IG Prestige Mid is a great frame.
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dr325i
G.O.A.T.
No, however definitely not re-releasing the PT630 16x19. It was never released as the retail stick.
Could be the iPrestige (TGK57.5 layup is very similar to the PT57E2).
Could also be something never released but interesting to many...
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
You may be onto something although the PT113B was discontinued 2 years ago...
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
I understand that the PT630 16x19 was never released... but since the PT 2.0 went so well, and Wilson has had great success with their Pro Labs racquets, maybe Head will release a PT 2.0 16x19... and your last sentence was "something never released before but interesting to many..." which would include both a PT 2.0 16x19 and a retail version of the PT113B, which they could call some "retro" name or just "Speed Pro 98 SE".
Isn't speculation fun...
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
If Head were smart, what I think they could do is create a spin-off line as Wilson did with their "Pro Labs" racquets.
They could easily call it the Pro-Line (or something) and then release all these special racquets under that Line. So, what I mean is they released the Pro Tour 2.0 (which was the PT630), they could then release a Pro Radical 2.0 (which could be the RT630), and a Pro Speed (which could be the PT113B), and a Pro Prestige (which could be a PC 600 or PT10), etc.
Then they can release different string patterns within those lines... and Bob's your uncle... a whole new revenue stream.
Just thoughts.
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
There is a BIG difference between where Wilson makes their H22s and where and how Head makes their PT frames.
It is not about being attractive to a 1000 users on this board and suffer profitability and back up the production line, but about maximizing it and maximum efficiency.
Offering TGT (pro stock frames) would not be super cool as those are just lighter versions of the Retail.
Offering the PT frames at $500 each would also not sell tons. Racket selling (consumer markets) is all about quantities and largest possible margins.
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
The PT113B was discontinued 2 years ago, FYI.
It was replaced by the PT346.1. The TGK346.1 would be an interesting option
Could you elaborate a bit? And by H22 are you talking the pro stock frames or the Pro Lab frames? Or, are they manufactured the same?
There are things about head frames that make me want to try them out. Pallets, cap grommets and it seems quality. Mainly a prestige Pro or MP back in the 95” days
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
We have already discussed the details, however, Wilson manufactures all of their frames (that we are discussing here, retail, H19, H22, Pro Labs...) in China. The manufacturing cost is similar across the lines.
Head, on the other hand, manufactures their retail and pro stock versions of the retail frames (TGK and TGT) in China too. However, the frames people are talking about, PT57A, PT346, other PT layups are manufactured in Austria. The manufacturing cost is significantly higher and racket manufacturing is labor intensive. It would make no sense for head to offer the PT frame as retail or to offer it at 2x the price of other frames.
J-Wildcard
Semi-Pro
Int
They did so the head room option for a period didn't they which allowed a few changes to be made just on the Head Speed frames as I remember? As was discussed with the pro tour 2 reissue it was a celebration and played similar to the original but was not an attempt at the identical version just an update. I think if for example they did do an iprestige it would be similar to the original but would not be the same as it would be produced in China now where they would be looking to make it play with the same characteristics as the original and therefore a version 2.0
Interesting thoughts and I agree with what you are saying. We have to remember that production did move out to China so the intelligence line was the last series to be made in Austria is that right? With the pro stock series are there some made still at Head HQ but the majority made in China with the TGK serial which as discussed are pretty much just lighter versions generally of the retail versions ready for the user to customise to suit their taste.
They did so the head room option for a period didn't they which allowed a few changes to be made just on the Head Speed frames as I remember? As was discussed with the pro tour 2 reissue it was a celebration and played similar to the original but was not an attempt at the identical version just an update. I think if for example they did do an iprestige it would be similar to the original but would not be the same as it would be produced in China now where they would be looking to make it play with the same characteristics as the original and therefore a version 2.0
nohandedbackhand
Semi-Pro
I for one would be ecstatic with them doing a similar process as they did with the pro tour 2.0 (i.e adding a 16x19 for that and making a respective djokovic frame as well). Even though not an official pro stock or Austrian PT frame, they really got the feel of that right. Lighter weight would be preferable too as no one will be buying them in local stores expecting to play straight out of the box without customizing. Disclaimer: I have no experience in marketing or running a massive retail company so I don’t assume to know what makes the most business sense.
Automatix
Legend
People are too obsessed with the whole made in China thing. Quality control? High grade materials? China can provide all of that if you're willing to pay for it.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
I understand
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
I know it was discontinued, and yes the TGK 346.1 would be interesting but I doubt it would happen. Novak needs to feel special and if everyone had his racquet that would not be possible (unless they gave him a huge cut of the money... haha).
As I said before, I have no vested interest in any particular model being offered, at the end of the day we'll just have to wait and see, and I don't really care much if they do or do not offer any of these racquets. If they do... great... and if they are at a price I'm willing to pay, I will. If they are some ridiculous price, I won't buy them.
I've never had the desire to have any of these racquets because Novak, or Rafa, or Federer play with them. I would only want to have these racquets if they are great feeling racquets that I play well with (at a price I'm willing to pay). If they were great, then, of course, it would be cool (and an added bonus) that Novak, or Rafa, or Federer play with the exact same racquet. If they aren't, then I would not want to have them. The PS97 RFA being a case-in-point, it's too stiff for my liking and I will never play with it. I don't care if it's the exact racquet Federer has or not... it's not for me.
I wish you all the best though. This was just a trip down Speculation Lane and I'm not looking to have detailed debates like my life depends on it. At the end of the day, I know you are much more of an expert on Head Pro Stock racquets than I, so your guess will be much better than mine.
Cheers
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
This is what I was saying. I never suggested (or meant to suggest) they would sell us the Kennelbach made Pro Stocks... but a Retail Copy (like the PT 2.0) that feels close or approximate to the Pro Stock... but made in China (like the PT 2.0). That could be feasible, but again Head will do what Head will do.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
I agree with that... that's why I didn't buy the 6.1... but the BP 16x19, BP 18x20 and UP 16x19 are all new and welcome additions... but yes, if the price was lower it would have been even better. Can't have it all though (unless you're Djokovic or Rafa, etc).
Seth
Legend
Fair point. $250 is a fair price for Blade Pros and Ultra Pros.
Addxyz
Hall of Fame
Considering everything else is $230-$240, $250 is a bargain, especially if bought at the end of the year.
J-Wildcard
Semi-Pro
Good point on the amount of people willing to jump on the back of getting a racket as it's the same as Roger/Rafa/Novak uses. I would like the one Murray uses I've seen many players getting an RF97 which is laughable considering what it weighs in at and how it plays. For many that is a good 30-40 grams too heavy. I think the Wilson ultra tour was seen as a one of the better examples of a platform stick where it came in at low weight and could be taken in the direction the user wanted to. Far too often all frames are set up head heavy limiting the options available and forcing things. That leads back to the head pro room choice where you select the weight, balance, grip shape, stiffness string pattern etc but I bet you will be looking at £399ish for that in the future no doubt. I would rather stay with the Head Pro tour version as discussed at the £150 Mark. It would have been nicer if it was slightly lighter but I guess at the weight it comes in at its good to go without mods.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
With the first time buyer discount... it was even cheaper.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
Agreed... and if you look at the TW Head graph (the one with all the dots on a graph) of where the racquets sit within the range, the PT 2.0 is the second-highest on the Power % and the highest on SW (from what I could see of the current range). I know it's not compared to some of the older versions (RT630, the extended versions of Prestige MPs, etc). Not bad...
I hope they keep producing it and expand it to a 16x19 version as well.
On a separate note, I would probably love the RF97A if it had an RA in the very low 60s (like the current Blade). But that's just me.
vsbabolat
Talk Tennis Guru
I’m using the PT2.0 in stick form and very surprised at how much power it has. I think it has more power than my Pro Tour 280 that customized.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
Awesome... if you're using it stock, with your racquet history and preferences, then that's saying something. I've still been using my PT630s and keeping the PT 2.0 in cotton wool for the future, but I might need to get a few more for safekeeping.
Very few racquets come close to it in the TW Power Tool Comparison tool, let alone better it.
Issit just me that finds the Prestige Classic 600 easier to use den the PT2.0? It provides more feel and ability to generate power
RF_PRO_STAFF
Hall of Fame
@vsbabolat It arrived! I put the pallet and butt cap on, Kimony leather grip. Now weighs 336.32 grams with overgrip. Bringing it to the stringer tonight.
Now that I have more (self made) clear pictures, could you please verify the specific version?
Now that I have more (self made) clear pictures, could you please verify the specific version?
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
Retail ("N") PT10, Light ("L") version?
vsbabolat
Talk Tennis Guru
That’s 2003 or 2006 as there wasn’t any labels like that in the 90’s. Manufactured in Austria finished in Czech Republic.
RF_PRO_STAFF
Hall of Fame
Thank you, so 100% confirmed now!
B-Line
Rookie
1987 that Sergio line
Seth
Legend
@vsbabolat @dr325i - can either of you tell me where the HEAD Classic Mid fits into the Prestige timeline?
vsbabolat
Talk Tennis Guru
The HEAD Classic Mid is the Prestige Classic. In 1999 and 2000 HEAD didn’t use the Prestige name and rebranded the Prestige Classic as the Classic Mid in the USA.
