Hard court GOAT...Federer or Novak?

Fed or Nole?

  • Fed

  • Novak

  • Equal

Results are only viewable after voting.
beard

beard

Legend
Novak finally closed gap on hc slams.
Who is the best now?

Novak-Federer
Slams: 11-11, most finals 16:14
WTF: 5-6
Masters: 25-22
H2H:
slams 7:4
wtf 3:3
masters 8:6

Winning percentage: 84.34% : 83.33%
Winning percentage in Grand Slam tournaments: 88.55% : 86.82%





In my opinion, Novak, close, but obvious...
 
Equal for now, but I think that Novak will end up as the HC goat. His game is simply designed for the "concrete", his return is most efficient on it and his movement on this surface is unparalleled.
 
It will end up being Novak because he'll win more HC slams most likely. Has to be said though, Fed is better on fast HC and Djokovic on slow ones so there will never be that much difference in actual skill on HC, though the HC slam count may say otherwise.
 
Djokovic is going to surpass Federer in terms of achievements. Federer still takes it in terms of peak level though.
 
Looking at the resume, Federer is better in the NA HC season compared to Djokovic than Djokovic is in the early part of the HC season compared to Federer.Indoors are both close.Federer for now, but at this rate Djokovic will be the best on the surface when it's all said and done.
 
lud said:
Djokovic is without doubt best HC player of all time. Fed is close 2nd.
Click to expand...
Best SLOW HC player of all time. Djokovic has never been a monster at the USO. And even on slow USO courts with larger tennis balls, he's still struggling there. He's the king of slow hardcourts.
 
Easily federer

you neglected to mention how many Basel and Dubai titles he has over Djokovic.

djokovic king of slow courts where he can retrieve balls and play pusher tennis

on proper fast courts he’s nowhere near
 
KINGROGER said:
Easily federer

you neglected to mention how many Basel and Dubai titles he has over Djokovic.

djokovic king of slow courts where he can retrieve balls and play pusher tennis

on proper fast courts he’s nowhere near
Click to expand...
Hard for Novak to win Basel in fairness if he never plays there!!
 
Courierfh said:
Nadal probably best fast HC player.
Click to expand...
Say what ? Indoors rings a bell ? Federer has 5 USO, 6 WTF, 7 CIncinnati titles, 2 Shanghai titles, has won Paris Masters.These are the fastest hard courts ( well, it was in the USO case).Also, if we look in the past, there is Pete Sampras, Connors or JMac.You can't be more further from the truth.
 
They’re pretty even now. Novak very slightly ahead in most of the OP’s stats, Fed slightly ahead in the rest. Novak will likely end up with a decent gap between him and Fed though. Will likely add a few more Masters and at least 1 or 2 more slams.
 
Mike Sams said:
Best SLOW HC player of all time. Djokovic has never been a monster at the USO. And even on slow USO courts with larger tennis balls, he's still struggling there. He's the king of slow hardcourts.
Click to expand...
He was a bit unlucky as he needed to play peak/prime Fed three times in a row at the USO on a medium fast court, and Fed is a superior fast court player. I believe Novak would have won at least one more USO (2008 for sure) if it wasn't for Fred.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ForehandRF said:
Say what ? Indoors rings a bell ? Federer has 5 USO, 6 WTF, 7 CIncinnati titles, 2 Shanghai titles, has won Paris Masters.These are the fastest hard courts ( well, it was in the USO case).Also, if we look in the past, there is Pete Sampras, Connors or JMac.You can't be more further from the truth.
Click to expand...
Hang on. For years we were told Majors is all that counts?
 
Courierfh said:
Hang on. For years we were told Majors is all that counts?
Click to expand...
Yeah.... Fed has 5 medium-fast HC majors + 2 AO in 2017-2018 when it was sped up.

nadal has two in 2010 & 2013. 2016- present has been a medium-slow HC.

Nadalovic should be thankful there are no actual fast HCs.
 
Courierfh said:
Hang on. For years we were told Majors is all that counts?
Click to expand...
Even if you look strictly at slams, USO is far from being fast and he is still behind Federer, Sampras or Connors there. Also, when we talk about fast hard courts we are not talking about a single tournament, just like when we talk about clay, we don't talk only about RG.
 
KINGROGER said:
Yeah.... Fed has 5 medium-fast HC majors + 2 AO in 2017-2018 when it was sped up.

nadal has two in 2010 & 2013. 2016- present has been a medium-slow HC.

Nadalovic should be thankful there are no actual fast HCs.
Click to expand...
The thing is, is there any actual empirical data supporting this argument over court speeds?

What vexes me is why would courts apparently be changed to not suit Federer when he is apparently the most popular player? Seems a bit strange for tournament organisers to do that?
 
ForehandRF said:
Even if you look strictly at slams, USO is far from being fast and he is still behind Federer, Sampras or Connors there. Also, when we talk about fast hard courts we are not talking about a single tournament, just like when we talk about clay, we don't talk only about RG.
Click to expand...
I think when it comes to clay its all about Roland Garros!!

And in fairness Nadal has had less years on tour than Roger so give him time. He is only one behind after all.
 
ForehandRF said:
Even if you look strictly at slams, USO is far from being fast and he is still behind Federer, Sampras or Connors there. Also, when we talk about fast hard courts we are not talking about a single tournament, just like when we talk about clay, we don't talk only about RG.
Click to expand...

Sampras is not even close to him at AO though so it's not even worth discussing. 3 vs 5 is a much smaller gap than 2 vs 8. In Connors' day, AO was mostly on grass so not really relevant plus Connors won his USOs on grass, clay and hardcourt so he is not worth discussing in this as well. Djokovic either has the lead or is tied for the lead in 5/9 big hardcourt tournaments including fast and slow.
 
NoleFam said:
Sampras is not even close to him at AO though so it's not even worth discussing. 3 vs 5 is a much smaller gap than 2 vs 8. In Connors' day, AO was mostly on grass so not really relevant plus Connors won his USOs on grass, clay and hardcourt so he is not worth discussing in this as well. Djokovic either has the lead or is tied for the lead in 5/9 big hardcourt tournaments including fast and slow.
Click to expand...
I was talking about Rafa in my exchange with that poster, not about Novak :)
 
Courierfh said:
The thing is, is there any actual empirical data supporting this argument over court speeds?

What vexes me is why would courts apparently be changed to not suit Federer when he is apparently the most popular player? Seems a bit strange for tournament organisers to do that?
Click to expand...
Higher ups care about slam race, they’ve done everything in their power to benefit djokodal, including slowing down the whole tour
 
Djokovic, the two additionals hard court slam finals alone give him the edge over Federer.With another UO or AO title it would be totally sealed.
 
Last edited:
this honestly should not be that close but Federer has really underperformed at the usopen esp since he was one of the most dominant players at that tournament.

Djokovic was never dominant at the usopen and lost winnable ones to wawa and nadal.

its close, but tied for now ( i forgot about fed's additional WTF).
 
Only one player has more titles than Roger at a HC slam (Djokovic at the Australian Open).

Four players have more titles than Nole at a HC slam (Federer, Sampras, McEnroe, Nadal at the US Open).
 
duaneeo said:
Only one player has more titles than Roger at a HC slam (Djokovic at the Australian Open).

Four players have more titles than Nole at a HC slam (Federer, Sampras, McEnroe, Nadal at the US Open).
Click to expand...
duaneeo is in full force this fine sunday evening. Keep doing you :whistle:
 
Federer. He had to contend with a broader variety of opponents, playing styles and playing conditions than Djokovic who benefited massively from the trend towards slowing and homogenisation which also saw the narrowing of viable playing styles too.

It's not really a contest all things considered. :p
 
In order to be considered hardcourt GOAT, Novak must win at least one Basel title.

giphy.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

UnderratedSlam
  • Poll Poll
Federer - Djokovic: the hardcourt GOAT debate continues.
Replies
23
Views
1K
TripleATeam
TripleATeam
zvelf
  • Poll Poll
Who was the better hard-court player, 2004 Andre Agassi or 2023 Novak Djokovic?
8 9 10
Replies
486
Views
18K
fedfan24
F
SpicyCurry1990
  • Poll Poll
Will Djokovic end up as Open Era Hard court GOAT?
2
Replies
68
Views
5K
mattosgrant
M
Oceans II
Incredible Federer achievements!
2 3
Replies
113
Views
4K
TMF
T
lud
Big 3 . Ultimate Battle for GOAT.
Replies
4
Views
441
Blahovic
B
Back
Top