Hard court GOAT...Federer or Novak?

Fed or Nole?

  • Fed

  • Novak

  • Equal


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RF-18

G.O.A.T.
Looks pretty even to me. Novak has two extra slam finals, but Federer has one more YECs.

Too even to make a call for either. We'll see in the future if there is a clear distinction.
 

itrium84

Semi-Pro
Novak finally closed gap on hc slams.
Who is the best now?

Novak-Federer
Slams: 11-11, most finals 16:14
WTF: 5-6
Masters: 25-22
H2H:
slams 7:4
wtf 3:3
masters 8:6

Winning percentage: 84.34% : 83.33%
Winning percentage in Grand Slam tournaments: 88.55% : 86.82%





In my opinion, Novak, close, but obvious...
Slam-wise, Novak is better with more finals. But, his advantage is razor-thin, so other achievements must be considered.

Fed's better YEC resume brings the balance back, and more - gives him an edge.

Novak has more than a thin better m1000 resume, so this gives him the edge back.

Their H2H is trivia, their percentages are trivia.

Conclusion- As of today, Novak is new HC GOAT, with very slim advantage over Fed which will grow with time.

So now, the big3 surface goatness is perfectly balanced, as all things should be. :)

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tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
The HC competition from a decade back to now is just laughable.

We had Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Nalbandian, Tsonga, Delpo, Berdych other than the big 3

Now we are left with Zverev, Dmitrov, Raonic, Nishikori and Thiem
 

duaneeo

Hall of Fame
More:
Federer won both HC slams 5 times; Djokovic won both HC slams 3 times.

Federer defended the USO 4 times and the AO twice; Djokovic defended the AO 4 times and the USO zero.

Federer has 5 consecutive wins at a HC slam; Djokovic has 3 consecutive wins at a HC slam.

Federer has 6 consecutive finals at a HC slam; Djokovic has 4 consecutive finals at a HC slam.

Federer won both HC slams 3 seasons (2004, 2006, 2007); Djokovic won both HC slams 2 seasons (2011, 2015).

Federer won all HC Masters played (Indian Wells, Miami, Canada, Cincinnati, Shanghai, Paris, Madrid). Djokovic never won Madrid (and before anyone says he was a 'baby', both Nadal and Murray won it).
 

Subway Tennis

Hall of Fame
Federer has won all HC Masters played (Indian Wells, Miami, Canada, Cincinnati, Shanghai, Paris, Madrid). Djokovic never won Madrid (and before anyone says he was a 'baby', both Nadal and Murray won it).
RE: Madrid - To be fair, Djokovic was only ever a main draw participant in a few of the Madrid opens before the surface change.

He turned 21 the last year it was run as a HC event.
 

Chronos

New User
Federer is 6-5 in HC Slams , Djokovic is 8-3. If distribution is important ( which many claims this to reduce Nadal's main achievements that are mostly on clay) then Federer is still leading.Especially considering hard courts is his second best surface. If not,then Djokovic has a slight edge because of the H2H i believe.

By the way,if i am not mistaken Federer is the only player to have double digits (10+) titles in all 3 surfaces.Can someone confirm it?That's quite good distribution.
 

duaneeo

Hall of Fame
RE: Madrid - To be fair, Djokovic was only ever a main draw participant in a few of the Madrid opens before the surface change.

He turned 21 the last year it was run as a HC event.
Nadal and Murray won the title at ages 19 and 21 respectively. If they can win it, surely the future HC GOAT can. And by the end of 2008, Djokovic had won Indian Wells, Miami, Canada, and the WTFs.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Slam-wise, Novak is better with more finals. But, his advantage is razor-thin, so other achievements must be considered.

Fed's better YEC resume brings the balance back, and more - gives him an edge.

Novak has more than a thin better m1000 resume, so this gives him the edge back.

Their H2H is trivia, their percentages are trivia.

Conclusion- As of today, Novak is new HC GOAT, with very slim advantage over Fed which will grow with time.

So now, the big3 surface goatness is perfectly balanced, as all things should be. :)

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk
You’re forgetting that Federer has 13 extra titles
 

itrium84

Semi-Pro
You’re forgetting that Federer has 13 extra titles
I did take those into account, but I consider those as trivia too, probably a little bit less than H2H and win percentages, but still...
Yeah, I'm biased towards Novak, so my calculations are not objective since they are so close. I actually take valid counter arguments as valid as mine (like total titles count).
Anyway, I see Novak one HCGS/YEC title away from confirming his HC goat status. What about you?

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KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
I did take those into account, but I consider those as trivia too, probably a little bit less than H2H and win percentages, but still...
Yeah, I'm biased towards Novak, so my calculations are not objective since they are so close. I actually take valid counter arguments as valid as mine (like total titles count).
Anyway, I see Novak one HCGS/YEC title away from confirming his HC goat status. What about you?

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk
If I put my Fed bias aside... you can’t put one clearly above the other.

Djokovic will go down as the better more successful HC player with another slam win for me but I’ll always take him on slow(like AO, Miami erc)vs Fed for faster (old USO, Cincy)
 

itrium84

Semi-Pro
If I put my Fed bias aside... you can’t put one clearly above the other.

Djokovic will go down as the better more successful HC player with another slam win for me but I’ll always take him on slow(like AO, Miami erc)vs Fed for faster (old USO, Cincy)
I actually feel we (Novak fans) are trying to avoid concidering Fed's fast court supreme record (especially Cincy) - in order to advance Novak's overall HC record, to make it bigger.
We don't have to do that - Novak will.
So yeah, I can agree with what you said above.

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Subway Tennis

Hall of Fame
Nadal and Murray won the title at ages 19 and 21 respectively. If they can win it, surely the future HC GOAT can. And by the end of 2008, Djokovic had won Indian Wells, Miami, Canada, and the WTFs.
Yes, Djokovic was already a major titlist on HC by 21. I just think it's important to note that he only had three legitimate shots at winning Madrid on HC. Unprovable, but it's surely the only reason why he doesn't have that title?
 
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