Harddal vs Grassovic vs Clayderer

[King No1e]

The discussion of best surface performances has been beaten to death, so let's discuss who's best on their weakest surface.

Nadal on Hardcourt:
1 Australian Open
3 US Open
8 M1000
7-18 vs Djokovic
8-10 vs Federer (Federer dominates Rafa on indoor as much as Nadal does on clay)
18 titles total

Djokovic on Grass:
3 Wimbledon
1 other (Eastbourne)
4 titles total
1-2 vs Nadal
2-1 vs Federer (I still don't know how)

Federer on Clay
1 RG
6 M1000
2-12 vs Nadal
4-4 vs Djokovic
11 titles total

Who's the best overall? I would say it's a close race between Nadal on hard and Djokovic on grass, but what about you? Discuss.

 

[Standaa]

What is Nadal’s and Djokovic’s worst surface is highly questionable. Djoker has more Wimbledon titles than RG titles and as for Nadal, his worst surface in the last couple of years has definitely been grass.

 

[Plamen1234]

Nadal weakest surfaces since years has been grass not hard court.About Federer - it is accurate and I am not sure whether Novak weakest surface is grass.He is underrated there

 

[robthai]

What about Clayray? and hardcourt is not Nadals weakest surface these days. If I had to choose though it would probably be Grassovic but he had the luxury of facing an old Fed and lost to Murray in a slam final. Nadals 08 Wimbledon is more of an accomplishment compared to any of Djokovics tittles except perhaps 2011 wimbledon.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Nole has more slams on his "worst" surface than he does at the USO. Interesting.

 

[King No1e]

Yes, yes, I know Nadal's grass game has wasted away since Rosol. But in his prime, from about 2008 right up to 2012, (excluding 09 when Federer got back on top), he was the favorite in any grass tourney he entered, with Federer losing to the Berdychs and Tsongas of the tour and the old guard (ARod, Hewitt) leaving the upper game. 20 match wins in a row at Wimbledon. Hard to see him pull that off at USO (get it? hard? ok bye)

 

[KINGROGER]

Rafa’s worst is grass and I’d still take Fed on clay despite having 1 less RG than Rafa has Wimbledons.

 

[King No1e]

Nole has more slams on his "worst" surface than he does at the USO. Interesting.

Yeah he does, and that's a wonder of nature. Anyone who follows tennis can see that Djokovic is always one of the top 2 contenders at the US Open, but he's just gotten one-upped by his competitors so many times. Apart from 2013, He's been the favorite for every US Open he's entered since 2011. It's crazy how he only has 2 titles there.

 

[FedTheMan]

Yeah he does, and that's a wonder of nature. Anyone who follows tennis can see that Djokovic is always one of the top 2 contenders at the US Open, but he's just gotten one-upped by his competitors so many times. Apart from 2013, He's been the favorite for every US Open he's entered since 2011. It's crazy how he only has 2 titles there.

He wasted an opportunity at USO12. That was such a terrible match and Novak was playing well below his standard and still almost won.

 

[MeatTornado]

Rafa’s worst is grass and I’d still take Fed on clay despite having 1 less RG than Rafa has Wimbledons.

Posters everywhere are shocked by your opinion. Shocked I say!

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

He wasted an opportunity at USO12. That was such a terrible match and Novak was playing well below his standard and still almost won.

2014 too. Stupid Jelena/Stefan.

 

[Jackuar]

3 more grass masters first please. Let's get things fair first and then measure.

 

[Fedforever]

Yes, yes, I know Nadal's grass game has wasted away since Rosol. But in his prime, from about 2008 right up to 2012, (excluding 09 when Federer got back on top), he was the favorite in any grass tourney he entered, with Federer losing to the Berdychs and Tsongas of the tour and the old guard (ARod, Hewitt) leaving the upper game. 20 match wins in a row at Wimbledon. Hard to see him pull that off at USO (get it? hard? ok bye)

There was a really good thread once on whether Rafa was a better grass court player than Fed was a clay court player. General consensus among the non-trolls was that Rafa had a better peak on grass but Federer had a higher consistent level on clay. Seemed a fair assessment.

 

[InsideOut900]

I have always conceded that when a player declines, his worst surface will be the first decline becomes most obvious.

This is due to the fact the part of his/her's game that made the player great on that surfave once are not sustaining their game anymore.

So based on this logic, Nadal's weakest surface should be grass, while Novak's weakest grass or fast hardcourt.

But their is also the opposite point of view, so instead of looking at how bad a player declined on each surface, we can be looking at how good he was at his peak on that surface.

Nadal's least impressive performances were at the USO IMO.
He has forced himself to become a good player there with his serve, but during 2008-2009, when his game was at a natural best, fast HC was his worst.

Djokovic has been at his natural best in 2011 and his worst surface was clearly grass.
Not even to talk about his grass record pre 2011, just much worse than other 3 surfaces.

Since working with Becker in 2014, his grass game greatly improved and based on his play last year, added to the great results from 2014/2015, his current worst surface is fast HC.

We need to do no further research on Federer.
Grass has always been his worst, but he was just fortunate not having to play the 90s grass specialist, that would have left him with 0 Wimbledon titles.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

I personally disagree.

IMO, Nadal's worst surface over his career is grass and Djokovic's is clay.

 

[Plamen1234]

I have always conceded that when a player declines, his worst surface will be the first decline becomes most obvious.

This is due to the fact the part of his/her's game that made the player great on that surfave once are not sustaining their game anymore.

So based on this logic, Nadal's weakest surface should be grass, while Novak's weakest grass or fast hardcourt.

But their is also the opposite point of view, so instead of looking at how bad a player declined on each surface, we can be looking at how good he was at his peak on that surface.

Nadal's least impressive performances were at the USO IMO.
He has forced himself to become a good player there with his serve, but during 2008-2009, when his game was at a natural best, fast HC was his worst.

Djokovic has been at his natural best in 2011 and his worst surface was clearly grass.
Not even to talk about his grass record pre 2011, just much worse than other 3 surfaces.

Since working with Becker in 2014, his grass game greatly improved and based on his play last year, added to the great results from 2014/2015, his current worst surface is fast HC.

We need to do no further research on Federer.
Grass has always been his worst, but he was just fortunate not having to play the 90s grass specialist, that would have left him with 0 Wimbledon titles.

Federer worst surface is clay.

 

[metsman]

harddal huh

 

[Deleted member 3771]

The discussion of best surface performances has been beaten to death, so let's discuss who's best on their weakest surface.

Nadal on Hardcourt:
1 Australian Open
3 US Open
8 M1000
7-18 vs Djokovic
8-10 vs Federer (Federer dominates Rafa on indoor as much as Nadal does on clay)
18 titles total

Djokovic on Grass:
3 Wimbledon
1 other (Eastbourne)
4 titles total
1-2 vs Nadal
2-1 vs Federer (I still don't know how)

Federer on Clay
1 RG
6 M1000
2-12 vs Nadal
4-4 vs Djokovic
11 titles total

Who's the best overall? I would say it's a close race between Nadal on hard and Djokovic on grass, but what about you? Discuss.

So far Rafa is the only player of the big 3 to have won a slam on his worst surface after turning 30.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

So far Rafa is the only player of the big 3 to have won a slam on his worst surface after turning 30.

25 since he won on his second best.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

I personally disagree.

IMO, Nadal's worst surface over his career is grass and Djokovic's is clay.

Agree. This poster obviously just wanted to include a different surface for each player. Pretty dumb.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Yes, yes, I know Nadal's grass game has wasted away since Rosol. But in his prime, from about 2008 right up to 2012, (excluding 09 when Federer got back on top), he was the favorite in any grass tourney he entered, with Federer losing to the Berdychs and Tsongas of the tour and the old guard (ARod, Hewitt) leaving the upper game. 20 match wins in a row at Wimbledon. Hard to see him pull that off at USO (get it? hard? ok bye)

That is because the competition is stiffer on hard than grass since it is most players' preferred surface. He always struggled against various journeymen on grass. Just managed to get lucky a few times until his luck ran out.

 

[cc0509]

The discussion of best surface performances has been beaten to death, so let's discuss who's best on their weakest surface.

Nadal on Hardcourt:
1 Australian Open
3 US Open
8 M1000
7-18 vs Djokovic
8-10 vs Federer (Federer dominates Rafa on indoor as much as Nadal does on clay)
18 titles total

Djokovic on Grass:
3 Wimbledon
1 other (Eastbourne)
4 titles total
1-2 vs Nadal
2-1 vs Federer (I still don't know how)

Federer on Clay
1 RG
6 M1000
2-12 vs Nadal
4-4 vs Djokovic
11 titles total

Who's the best overall? I would say it's a close race between Nadal on hard and Djokovic on grass, but what about you? Discuss.

Nadal's weakest surface isn't hardcourt, it's grass. He has four hardcourt slams and two Wimbledon slams. And similarly, grass isn't Djokovic's weakest surface, it's clay(3 Ws>1 FO.) The only one you got right was Federer's weakest surface which is undoubtedly clay.

Who's better on his weakest surface? I think I would go with Nadal on grass since he has 2 Wimbledon titles and he beat the grass GOAT(Federer) at Wimbledon in 2008. But the fact that Nadal has done so poorly at Wimbledon for the past six years seriously weakens this claim. It's very close between Federer and Djokovic on their weakest surface--clay. You could make valid arguments either way.

 

[Plamen1234]

So far Rafa is the only player of the big 3 to have won a slam on his worst surface after turning 30.

The last time Nadal won Wimby was in 2010.He definitely wasnt over 30 back then

 

[BrokenGears]

How is it clay lol? What? How is Djokovic's weakest surface clay?

He has many clay titles! Can someone walk me through it? Djokovic literally only loses to Nadal on clay.

Actually Djokovic doesn't have a weak surface like those two noobs xD

 

[mike danny]

The discussion of best surface performances has been beaten to death, so let's discuss who's best on their weakest surface.

Nadal on Hardcourt:
1 Australian Open
3 US Open
8 M1000
7-18 vs Djokovic
8-10 vs Federer (Federer dominates Rafa on indoor as much as Nadal does on clay)
18 titles total

Djokovic on Grass:
3 Wimbledon
1 other (Eastbourne)
4 titles total
1-2 vs Nadal
2-1 vs Federer (I still don't know how)

Federer on Clay
1 RG
6 M1000
2-12 vs Nadal
4-4 vs Djokovic
11 titles total

Who's the best overall? I would say it's a close race between Nadal on hard and Djokovic on grass, but what about you? Discuss.

You're not going to like the answer to the bolded

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

How is it clay lol? What? How is Djokovic's weakest surface clay?

He has many clay titles! Can someone walk me through it? Djokovic literally only loses to Nadal on clay.

Actually Djokovic doesn't have a weak surface like those two noobs xD

He lost his first FO final that didn't have RAFA, lol

 

[BrokenGears]

He lost his first FO final that didn't have RAFA, lol

Yeah okay, so one? To a goating Stan? That's what makes him a bad clay courter?

 

[mike danny]

How is it clay lol? What? How is Djokovic's weakest surface clay?

He has many clay titles! Can someone walk me through it? Djokovic literally only loses to Nadal on clay.

Actually Djokovic doesn't have a weak surface like those two noobs xD

And to Federer and to Wawrinka and to Murray (though not at RG).

 

[mike danny]

Yeah okay, so one? To a goating Stan? That's what makes him a bad clay courter?

Djokovic is not a clay-courter, he is a HC player who adapted his HC game for clay. And he plays on clay like he plays on HC.

Nadal does the exact opposite: he plays on HC like he plays on clay.

 

[cc0509]

How is it clay lol? What? How is Djokovic's weakest surface clay?

He has many clay titles! Can someone walk me through it? Djokovic literally only loses to Nadal on clay.

Actually Djokovic doesn't have a weak surface like those two noobs xD

His weakest surface is definitely clay. He has one RG title. And he doesn't only lose to Nadal at RG, he lost to Wawrinka. Do you think Federer would have ever lost to Wawrinka at RG?

 

[mike danny]

First of all, this thread is wrong to begin with.

Nadal's weakest surface is grass, not HC, as evidenced by him not being relevant on grass after age 25, while still doing well on HC.

Djokovic's weakest surface is probably clay, not grass. You're not fooling anyone saying a guy with 3 Wimb titles has grass as his weakest surface.

 

[mike danny]

His weakest surface is definitely clay. He has one RG title. And he doesn't only lose to Nadal at RG, he lost to Wawrinka. Do you think Federer would have ever lost to Wawrinka at RG?

From 2005 to 2011, I sincerely doubt it.

 

[BrokenGears]

And to Federer and to Wawrinka and to Murray (though not at RG).

He lost to Federer 2 times before he even peaked lol and lost to him one time at RG. The other time Federer beat him was 2014. They've only played 8 times and its tied at 4-4. Wawrinka one time at RG. I can't remember any other time Wawrinka beat him on clay. Murray only beat him once on clay and Djokovic leads 5-1 against him.

So yeah...He literally only loses to Nadal

 

[BrokenGears]

Combined Wawrinka, Murray, and Federer, they've played 15 times on clay. Nadal v Djokovic has been played 22 times on clay...

 

[junior74]

Nadal has 4 slams on HC, 2 on grass

Since 2012, R4 is his best result in Wimbledon
While he has won 2 HC slams and 3 runner up

Grass is clearly Nadal's weakest surface

 

[BrokenGears]

And its 7-15(Djokovic vs Nadal) and 9-6(Against Murray, Wawrinka, and Federer)

 

[mike danny]

He lost to Federer 2 times before he even peaked lol and lost to him one time at RG. The other time Federer beat him was 2014. They've only played 8 times and its tied at 4-4. Wawrinka one time at RG. I can't remember any other time Wawrinka beat him on clay. Murray only beat him once on clay and Djokovic leads 5-1 against him.

So yeah...He literally only loses to Nadal

So no, he doesn't literally only lose to Nadal. You just contradicted yourself.

You just disparage a RG semi loss to Fed and a RG final loss to Stan like they are nothing. Those are big matches on clay that Djokovic lost to players other than Nadal. So, to reiterate, no, Djokovic doesn't literally just lose to Nadal. Don't overrate him.

 

[BrokenGears]

So no, he doesn't literally only lose to Nadal. You just contradicted yourself.

You just disparage a RG semi loss to Fed and a RG final loss to Stan like they are nothing. Those are big matches on clay that Djokovic lost to players other than Nadal. So, to reiterate, no, Djokovic doesn't literally just lose to Nadal. Don't overrate him.

I'm taking stats here. Not the value, Djokovic has played Nadal more times than those 3 other people. Hyperbole, should not have said literally

 

[mike danny]

Combined Wawrinka, Murray, and Federer, they've played 15 times on clay. Nadal v Djokovic has been played 22 times on clay...

Overall H2H is not the issue here. Djokovic has lost big matches on clay to players other than Nadal, so no, he doesn't literally just lose to Nadal.

 

[mike danny]

I'm taking stats here. Not the value, Djokovic has played Nadal more times than those 3 other people. Hyperbole, should not have said literally

All I'm saying is that Djokovic is not immune to losing to players outside Nadal on clay. And I'm not even talking about the matches in masters, I'm talking about the biggest matches, which take place at RG. If what you said is true, then Djokovic should have only lost to Nadal at RG from 2011 to 2016, but he lost to Fed and Stan as well.

 

[BrokenGears]

Overall H2H is not the issue here. Djokovic has lost big matches on clay to players other than Nadal, so no, he doesn't literally just lose to Nadal.

My bad, like I said I should have not said literally.

Should have said he loses more times to Nadal then those other players

He has lost big matches against Nadal as well

 

[mike danny]

My bad, like I said I should have not said literally.

Should have said he loses more times to Nadal then those other players

He has lost big matches against Nadal as well

Djokovic has lost to Nadal on clay pretty much as many times as Fed.

 

[BrokenGears]

All I'm saying is that Djokovic is not immune to losing to players outside Nadal on clay. And I'm not even talking about the matches in masters, I'm talking about the biggest matches, which take place at RG. If what you said is true, then Djokovic should have only lost to Nadal at RG from 2011 to 2016, but he lost to Fed and Stan as well.

Sure, I’m not disagreeing with you, but Nadal has been his clay rival and he’s lost to him a lot.

 

[BrokenGears]

Djokovic has lost to Nadal on clay pretty much as many times as Fed.

He’s lost to Federer 4 times on clay... 2 of those times were 2008 I think. He lost to Nadal 15 times

 

[BrokenGears]

Someone correct me in stats if I’m being dumb

 

[mike danny]

He’s lost to Federer 4 times on clay... 2 of those times were 2008 I think. He lost to Nadal 15 times

You misunderstood.

I was referring to the idea that both Djoko and Fed have lost pretty much the same amount of matches to Nadal on clay.

 

[I Am Finnish]

What is Nadal’s and Djokovic’s worst surface is highly questionable. Djoker has more Wimbledon titles than RG titles and as for Nadal, his worst surface in the last couple of years has definitely been grass.

Djokovic moves better on clay

 

[I Am Finnish]

I personally disagree.

IMO, Nadal's worst surface over his career is grass and Djokovic's is clay.

Disagree, ( Indoor) hc nadal & grass Djokovic

 

[mike danny]

Djokovic moves better on clay

Yes, he does, but that's mostly because clay allows him to play his HC game more than grass does.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Disagree, ( Indoor) hc nadal & grass Djokovic

This is mostly about slams so indoor hc doesn't count and when one has 3 Wimbledon trophies and 1 RG trophy then clearly he's better on grass.