Hardest player to ace?
- Thread starter papertank
- Start date
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Defo the Knight of the realm.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Has to be Djoker and Muzz, they both have the best ROS on tour.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Which is absolutely sick.
Tennis Abstract is there for you. In 2017 it is Monfils, 2016 Medvedev, 2015 Paire. All this years together it is Paire, whom is always in top 3. Second one is Monfils.
Look yourself here: http://www.tennisabstract.com/cgi-bin/leaders.cgi?f=A2015qqs50w1
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
there was an old thread about that...
who do you think are (or were) the least aced players ?
Nb: it's, of course, not necessarily about the best returners (i think agassi, for instance, despite being a great returner, was still getting decently showered with aces).
on the ATP website, stats are available for the aces served... but not for the aces eaten (although it could be reconstructed).
monfils appears to be an interesting case (probably due sur his speed and long reach) as he already left some great servers aceless during entire matches, even if i also remember him getting abundantly aced by isner (i know i know, who doesn't -just ask ark_28- ... but still !).
(in his case, maybe his returning abilities are even more dependant on the surface factor than for other players ?)
some examples:
- roddick l. to monfils (poertschach 2007, QF, clay): 75 63, 0 ace
- karlovic l. to monfils (monte-carlo 2008, R32, clay): 76 61, 0 ace
- federer d. monfils (monte-carlo 2008, R16, clay): 63 64, 0 ace
i'll let you analyse federer, djokovic, etc. (including former pros) and come up with interesting examples !
some new input, thx to a link posted by OhYes !
according to this website, here's the list (i've put active players in red):
so among active players, monfils is indeed the least aced one !
(with paire not so far behind)
don't forget stats before 1991 are missing ! still, i'm a bit surprised to see martin jaite at the top of the list, as he didn't have the "long reach" guys like monfils or paire have (he's only 1m77). maybe he's a bit "helped" by a lot of playing on clay ? (although he won titles on other surfaces too)
Jon Snow
Semi-Pro
What game? That's crazy.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
I would think that Agassi is up there. He stood in close to cut off angles and had such great timing and E/H coordination.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Fed is fantastic at getting his racquet on it at least.
Service winners may be a different matter, but he keeps straight-up aces well under control.
Service winners may be a different matter, but he keeps straight-up aces well under control.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
He should get some kind of award for that.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
2008 Monte Carlo:
http://www.tennisabstract.com/cgi-b...rlovic&f=ACareerqqTcxAces-eq-0qq&view=singles
The only other match where Karlovic didn't score an ace was a retirement down 0-1 in the first set
TheFifthSet
G.O.A.T.
Actually, Agassi was perhaps the most frequently aced of all the all-time greats and one of the most frequently aced top 10 players ever, with a 9.7% ace rate against. Still a GOAT-level return but that's more due to offensive firepower.
Last edited:
jaggy
Talk Tennis Guru
Who was serving?
NothingButNet
Semi-Pro
TheFifthSet
G.O.A.T.
murray, federer.
even monfils.
definitely not djokovic or agassi.
Monfils towers above all of these guys in terms of ace% against:
Monfils: 4.0%
Murray: 5.6%
Federer: 5.7%
Djokovic: 6.2%
Agassi: 9.7%
Of course, he's also the worst overall returner of the five. Go figure.
Nadal is at 7.1% despite the fact that a higher percentage of his matches have been on the dirt.
Last edited:
abmk
Bionic Poster
Monfils towers above all of these guys in terms of ace% against:
Monfils: 4.0%
Murray: 5.6%
Federer: 5.7%
Djokovic: 6.2%
Agassi: 9.7%
Of course, he's also the worst overall returner of the five. Go figure.
Nadal is at 7.1% despite the fact that such a higher percentage of his matches have been on the dirt.
how are you getting overall on tennisabstract ?
I can only get for 15/16/17.
TheFifthSet
G.O.A.T.
This site is a decent alternative:
https://tennis-strangeforest.rhcloud.com/
The stats are on each players profile.
Here are all-time (well, since '91, lol) leaders for relevant statistical categories:
https://tennis-strangeforest.rhcloud.com/statsLeaders
They also have some cool stuff like % of games won for pre '90s players like Borg, etc.
Last edited:
abmk
Bionic Poster
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Anderson held, then Karlovic went down 0-40 with two DFs
mavsman149
Hall of Fame
That was insane, I remember that
Agassis return of huge serves is hugely overrated. Sampras aced him 12 times in the first of their us open final 2002. And how often he aced him with his second serve.
Mark Philippoussis aced him 46 times in their wimbledon match 2003. He only aced Federer 14 times in the final. Of course, the federer match was 2 sets shorter, but it is clear that Federer is a much much much bettet returner of bombs than Agassi.
Then Joachim Johansson aced him 51 times in four sets at the australian open 2004. The guy was a service monster, but he would never ace Federer or Murray like that.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
It's not that Agassi is overrated, he's just not a Novak or Federer who will put the ball back in play every serve. Andre was boom or bust. He would get aced a lot but hit way more return winners than those guys. It's a byproduct of trying to guess where the serve will go. Like a home run/strikeout hitter.
Agassi was actually easy to ace. Sampras did it basically at will. Afgassi had limited reach and mobility and didn't read serve very well. The thing about him was when he did guess right and got a racket on the serve, he did a lot with it. No getting the ball in play, it was a full stroke due to his great coordination and very short takeback. No one took the ball on the rise better than Andre before Fed came along.
SLD76
G.O.A.T.
SLD76
G.O.A.T.
I remember one AO match with Fed...I wanna say 05 or 06 where Fed seemingly aced him at will
Granted, advanced age, but still
But against 135 mph in the corner there is not much you can do than just somehow get your racket on it. Agassi was simply not able to do that. Like someone else said, his mobility and flexibility are too limited. And his reaction time is also nowhere near Federer. I remember when he was used he usually didn't move.
Thats why i think he is overrated. You could beat him just by serve alone, you can't beat Federer by serve alone.
Duncan Donuts
Professional
I think if the match is on the line and you really need a return of serve, you have to go Djokovic or Murray. I'd edge Murray slightly
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Monfils towers above all of these guys in terms of ace% against:
Monfils: 4.0%
Murray: 5.6%
Federer: 5.7%
Djokovic: 6.2%
Agassi: 9.7%
Of course, he's also the worst overall returner of the five. Go figure.
Nadal is at 7.1% despite the fact that a higher percentage of his matches have been on the dirt.
GOATfils. The guy is a serious athlete and that is a staggering stat.
Regarding Agassi... he stood up close and took a full swing at the serve - 1st, 2nd, big server, not a big server, didn't matter
He got aced more than most - that was the tradeoff for all the return of service winners, forcing errors with the return and taking control of the point with it
He used the return almost like a big server uses the serve!
I would have thought Lleyton Hewitt would score well in this area of not-getting-aced... he was excellent at getting the ball back in play, while also being no slouch on Agassi-esqe aggression with it
Would be interesting to see how the guys who stand far back to return rate on this. Nadal today, Kuerten in the 90s, Borg before that.
Borg argued lucidly for standing so far back on these very grounds i.e. not getting aced often. I think he overlooked that not everyone had his speed and defensive capability to handle what would come after the return in such cases... though it worked for him, and I'm guessing he would be top of the tree in this area for his period. I'd bet dimes to dollars he was better at getting the ball in play than Jimmy Connors... who was more of an Agassi mindset on the return
Monfils' numbers are very impressive... without looking at the figures, I would have speculated that Andy Murray would have topped the charts. He usually outaces Roger Federer - which is stunning, given how much better Federer's serve is and how much higher Federer is at ace-ing people... I guess there's a server-returner "match-up" there of sorts
He got aced more than most - that was the tradeoff for all the return of service winners, forcing errors with the return and taking control of the point with it
He used the return almost like a big server uses the serve!
I would have thought Lleyton Hewitt would score well in this area of not-getting-aced... he was excellent at getting the ball back in play, while also being no slouch on Agassi-esqe aggression with it
Would be interesting to see how the guys who stand far back to return rate on this. Nadal today, Kuerten in the 90s, Borg before that.
Borg argued lucidly for standing so far back on these very grounds i.e. not getting aced often. I think he overlooked that not everyone had his speed and defensive capability to handle what would come after the return in such cases... though it worked for him, and I'm guessing he would be top of the tree in this area for his period. I'd bet dimes to dollars he was better at getting the ball in play than Jimmy Connors... who was more of an Agassi mindset on the return
Monfils' numbers are very impressive... without looking at the figures, I would have speculated that Andy Murray would have topped the charts. He usually outaces Roger Federer - which is stunning, given how much better Federer's serve is and how much higher Federer is at ace-ing people... I guess there's a server-returner "match-up" there of sorts
Druss
Hall of Fame
I guarantee you Dr Ivo did not sleep that night [emoji15]
Druss
Hall of Fame
That is why ROS and not getting aced are two separate things.
Best to not get aced (current tour) IMO is Djokovic, but that does not mean he has the best ROS, though he is up there in that department.
roysid
Legend
Stats are misleading. Every top player is difficult to ace when they want to. I've seen Nadal or Djokovic returning Federer's serve when they desperately need to break. Conversely when they are a break up, they just concentrate on holding their serve and allow a lot of aces on Federer's serve
abmk
Bionic Poster
the stats are right up here in this thread , overall.
Murray and Federer are harder to ace than djokovic.
Even in 2015, when Djokovic was dominant :
Murray was aced on 6.4% of the points
Federer on 6.5%
Djokovic 7.2%
http://www.tennisabstract.com/cgi-bin/leaders.cgi?f=A2015qqs00w1
abmk
Bionic Poster
oh jeez, some posts here.
except for Sampras, all the other big servers trailed agassi in the h2h : stich, becker, goran, krajicek, roddick, phillippoussis etc.. He owned Stich and Becker pretty badly in the 90s.
and the guy continued to return great in the 2000s.
broke peak federer serving at 75+% on a fast court - USO final - 3 times, this was at the age of 35.
Last edited:
Boom-Boom
Legend
Nice stat
Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
Monfils the teacher.
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
Monfils!
boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
I was going to post this exact same thing...and then saw you had already done it. This alone puts him in this discussion.
llodra_fan
Professional
Hewitt and Ferrer have to be up there with Murray, Federer , Djokovic etc when it comes to returning the ball back.
