Harming eyes by serving into sun?

Wuppy

Professional
Is there any scientific literature about whether or not you can permanently harm your eyes by serving into the sun?

My work depends a great deal on my vision and I was serving into the sun today. Not only did I double fault a lot but it really scared me. I can't afford to have vision problems down the road.

I tried sunglasses but the ball was literally in the disk of the sun and even they didn't help.

I just want to know the health & medical aspects of it, not how to avoid it (by altering ball-toss, having such a consistent toss you can hit with eyes closed, etc.)

Thanks
 

r2473

Talk Tennis Guru
I just want to know the health & medical aspects of it, not how to avoid it (by altering ball-toss, having such a consistent toss you can hit with eyes closed, etc.)

Thanks
Ya, just serve with your eyes closed.

Problem solved.

By the way, I can't imagine what type of interesting work you must do that depends on vision. At my job, I'm 100% dependent on smell.
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
Sure, lots in the medical literature about damage to the retina from looking at the sun. Remember how they'd tell you to look at an eclipse through some kind of filter, as looking directly at the sun can cause permanent damage?
 

Wuppy

Professional
Ya, just serve with your eyes closed.

Problem solved.

By the way, I can't imagine what type of interesting work you must do that depends on vision. At my job, I'm 100% dependent on smell.
Ok, now that we got the mandatory Talk Tennis Worthless Post out of the way, anybody else like to chip in? Thanks very much.
 

Wuppy

Professional
Sure, lots in the medical literature about damage to the retina from looking at the sun. Remember how they'd tell you to look at an eclipse through some kind of filter, as looking directly at the sun can cause permanent damage?
I do understand that staring at the sun will cause damage, but my question is obviously: will the second or two you have to look into the sun while serving cause damage? And if so, is there actual literature on it that anyone knows about? No offense but I don't trust the opinions of anyone here, just point me to it. thanks again.

EDIT: And yes I already DAFS and didn't find anything.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Scientific literature is most important, and vital before making any decisions in life.
Get scientific evidence that it's bad to jump out of windows, fall down stairs, or drink drano. But until you do, it's OK to jump out windows, fall down stairs, and drink drano, because you didn't read the literature.
 

Wuppy

Professional
All right well since clearly the users of TT have the collective IQ of my pet hamster, I'm going to post some of the data I've obtained so far for the future user who has the same questions:

Solar retinopathy is a short-lived problem caused by staring into the sun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_retinopathy

Photokeratitis is essentially a sunburn of the eye caused by extended exposure to UV rays.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photokeratitis

Interestingly, it appears that high-intensity short term exposure to the sun doesn't do lasting damage itself (from what I've so-far found, my research is continuing). However, it does contribute to long-term exposure problems that can cause cataracts, macular degeneration, etc.

Also strangely, it doesn't seem that you can "burn out" your photoreceptors by looking into the sun for a couple of seconds. However, I want to make sure that's right before relying on that info.

I will post more info here as I come upon it. I really wish thread creators could go through and delete the worthless posts from their own threads. Of course that would mean 99.5% of all the posts on this site would go.
 
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LeeD

Bionic Poster
Since you're such a great researcher, show us research that looking into the sun a millesecond before hitting the ball, then trying to track the return, is a ......bad? good? OK? idea.
You need this research paper to make the decision yourself, of course.
 
Recommendations:

1. Try not to play at the time of day of when the sun will be in your eyes when serving (I know this is not always practical).

2. Wear sunglasses - virtually all sunglasses remove most of the harmful Ultraviolet rays. Curved sunglasses that tightly fit the face without allowing a lot of sunlight in from the sides, top or bottom would be best. (See below for color of lens, ultraviolet absorption, problem with teal "competivision" lenses*.)

3. Wear a hat - it decreases the amount of sun that can get in around the frames, plus decreases the amount of glare on the lenses.

4. Develop twist and slice serves with different toss locations - What's more important, your eyes, or stubbornly serving from a toss in the same spot every time? Sun happens. Don't be so shocked when it's sunny. Don't be shocked if serving from a different spot slightly changes your serve, changing your opponents timing, and resulting in an easy service hold. (Hmm, maybe you should even do this if the sun isn't in your eyes!)




* The following is an interesting article from an opthalmologist stating that the teal colored "competivision" sunglasses don't provide the same eye protection that grey or brown lenses do:

From - Double Fault! Ocular Hazards of a Tennis Sunglass
by Michael F. Marmor, MD
Arch Ophthalmol. 2001;119:1064-1066.
"From the standpoint of improving the contrast or visibility of a tennis ball to enhance sports performance, this design is inherently flawed on any court with a greenish surface, which comprises most hard and clay courts in the United States. Through a blue-green lens, a yellow ball appears greenish (Figure 2) and thus is less visible against the green court (which will seem bright through this lens). The same would apply for a yellow or white golf ball viewed against green grass. Furthermore, blue light in general is less effective physiologically with respect to functions such as acuity, contrast detection, and motion perception.2-3 In other words, critical perceptions are actually reduced rather than enhanced. These bluish lenses will be of no visual benefit except possibly on a reddish or amber court (such as the red clay of Roland Garros). Here, the ball may appear to be relatively light against a darker court, but these lenses still should not be worn because of the hazard associated with blue light."

"A statement4 on ocular UV radiation hazards in sunlight, endorsed by the American Academy of Ophthalmology, the American Optometric Association, and Prevent Blindness America, advises that sunglasses should block 99% to 100% of the full UV spectrum (UV-A extends up to 380-400 nm). The document notes that additional protection for the retina can be provided by lenses that reduce the transmission of violet-blue visible light. These recommendations follow the findings of many researchers,5-9 and reflect concerns that both near-UV and visible blue light may contribute to macular aging and degeneration. Blue lenses do exactly the opposite: they block long wavelengths and admit the violet-blue end of the light spectrum. They are not only substandard as sunglasses but could, under some circumstances, be more hazardous than wearing no glasses at all. Because so much of the bright (yellow) end of the light spectrum is blocked, the world appears subjectively dark through blue glasses, and the wearer might spend extra time in the sun or have a relatively dilated pupil. If either of these occurs, the eyes could be exposed to more short wavelength light than without any lenses."

"A neutral gray or amber sunglass that blocks 99% to 100% of UV-A and UV-B light will provide additional protection and may even help slightly to make the ball stand out (depending on the color of the court). However, there is no rationale for a blue lens, whether for children, tennis players, or anyone else. Ophthalmologists should be aware of the properties and the risks of blue lenses to advise parents of young children and sports-minded patients. Tennis players in particular should be aware that a blue lens commits a double fault, and does not serve well for either perception or safety."
- http://archopht.ama-assn.org/cgi/con...ull/119/7/1064
 
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OTMPut

Hall of Fame
Ok, now that we got the mandatory Talk Tennis Worthless Post out of the way, anybody else like to chip in? Thanks very much.
Don't be so hard. His sense of humor is very subtle and helps keep sanity in these forums.
 

LuckyR

Legend
No need for all of that jazz, just do what the other 99.999999% of the population of the Earth does several times a day: as your eye sweeps towards the sun, pause slightly before it becomes glaring, rapidly pan across the sun and then catch up with what you are looking at (your toss) on the other side.

Routinely done, no eye damage.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
.....therefore you seek medical evidence from it.
LOL. Perfectly placed. All this guy does is insult everyone here yet asks for help anyway on simple life advice that he can't figure out. I think your pet hamster knows not to look into the sun.

1. wear a hat.

2. wear quality sunglasses with the right lenses for tennis.

3. Toss line needs to be away from directly in line with the sun.

If those things don't help, stop playing tennis at that time.
 

jswinf

Professional
Out of first 19 posts, I'd say at least 5 feature OP demeaning the TT community. Makes me not care if you stare at the sun or not.
 

adventure

Banned
You're getting a lot of stupid replies because many of the posters are afraid to acknowledge the possibility that playing tennis is harmful to their health, if only potentially.

That's why the sunscreen thread is rated one star as well, as well as why some ass hats are trolling this thread 24/7.

It goes without saying that looking directly into the sun, especially during midday is a very poor idea.

Try playing in the late afternoon or in the evening instead, if possible.

Most every sport brings some element of risk to the table, too bad the wankers here are getting their panties in a bunch because you chose to remind them of it.
 

WildVolley

Legend
You're getting a lot of stupid replies because many of the posters are afraid to acknowledge the possibility that playing tennis is harmful to their health, if only potentially.
Not really. The stupid replies are primarily because Wuppy is one of TT's most prodigious trolls.:)
 

volleygirl

Semi-Pro
LOL. Perfectly placed. All this guy does is insult everyone here yet asks for help anyway on simple life advice that he can't figure out. I think your pet hamster knows not to look into the sun.

1. wear a hat.

2. wear quality sunglasses with the right lenses for tennis.

3. Toss line needs to be away from directly in line with the sun.

If those things don't help, stop playing tennis at that time.


Where on earth did you find all that helpful info about protecting your eyes? Those are all great ideas and theres no way anyone could have come up with them without the help of some heath magazine. Its amazing how ridiculous some of the questions are that are asked on here.
 

r2473

Talk Tennis Guru
Is there any scientific literature about whether or not you can permanently harm your eyes by serving into the sun?
You just need to train and practice this like anything else.

Start by staring into the sun for a second or two. Do something like 5 sets of 2 second reps. Try to build up to being able to stare into the sun for a minute at a time. Without blinking.

Like anything, its tough at the beginning. Just stick with it.
 

JG4tennis

New User
Harming your eye serving into the sun.

Yes you will cause damage. Unfortunately the eyes are one of several body parts that don't recover from damage. The number of times you'd be stareing into the sun is definitely going to damage your eyes. Even the glare off the courts, or any water or ashalt surface requires sunglasses to prevent early damage to your eyes. That is why all professional drivers, boaters wear sun glasses.
- My optomotrist recommends the yellow tinted sunglasses for tennis.
- A tennis visor is essential to reduce eye strain as you look into and away from the sun during the volley. The longer you can go without glasses the better. Once your stuck with glasses you have the fogging and swet on the glasses which becomes a real pain.
I believe the pro's are so consistent that they close their eyes at that second. I've done that and it worked. I change the toss to the side out of the sun or just rely on a strong wrist shot to assure I get a volley going and not double fault. This advise works as I was able to reach age 50 before needing glasses which my optomotrist says is great for that much time spent on the courts and driving.
 

Wuppy

Professional
why yellow-tinted? seems like you wouldn't be able to see the ball if everything is tinted yellow.
 

jswinf

Professional
A yellow tint transmits yellow (like from a tennis ball) but not other wavelengths/colors quite different, like blue. Increases contrast. I'm not sure if it's significant or not, could be some placebo going on. (Not that there's anything wrong with a good placebo.)
 

floridatennisdude

Hall of Fame
why yellow-tinted? seems like you wouldn't be able to see the ball if everything is tinted yellow.
Yea, that's how it works. Mine are black tinted and when I'm driving down the road I can't tell if cars actually have tires or not. It's an exciting way to get entertainment driving down the road. Until a black car comes rolling my way...all I can see is the head of a driver. Scary ****.
 

r2473

Talk Tennis Guru
Yea, that's how it works. Mine are black tinted and when I'm driving down the road I can't tell if cars actually have tires or not. It's an exciting way to get entertainment driving down the road. Until a black car comes rolling my way...all I can see is the head of a driver. Scary ****.
I'd really, really like to make a "racist" joke right now, but people are so damn sensitive (and carefully PC so as not to "offend") that it probably wouldn't fly...........
 

Maui19

Hall of Fame
On a related note, can anyone point to scientific literature that poking oneself in the eye with a sharp stick is harmful?
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
If there's no study proving it to be true, for sure, it's not true.....until the study is found or produced.
 

SwankPeRFection

Hall of Fame
Just change your toss a bit. Geeze. Either that or just learn to serve a bit blind for a second or two. If your motion is solid, you should be able to close your eyes at the last second before starring right where the ball hits the sun level. People only mess up on blind serving if they try to do it completely blindfolded or with closed eyes (from the toss to the stroke). It throws off their balance, but if you do it at the last second, you'll be fine.

Also, it helps if you get some REAL sunglasses... i.e. polarized lenses and not some regular bs lenses. I play in my O's sometimes without any issues at all.
 

Wuppy

Professional
Youre right. Theres no way to see the ball or anything thats yellow if youre using yellow tinted shades.
Wow you guys have the IQ of my pet rabbit.

Of course the point is that since the majority of yellow wavelengths get through, whereas other wavelengths are filtered out, then everything is tinted yellow and the ball blends into the background.

Yet another reason I'm pushing this site's admins for a 10-post limit per day.
 

Wuppy

Professional
On a related note, can anyone point to scientific literature that poking oneself in the eye with a sharp stick is harmful?
Cute reply and I bet you patted yourself on the back for it. Congrats.

Unfortunately your point is lost, because so far the "scientific literature" fails to show that looking into the sun for a couple of moments on a serve does any lasting damage at all.

If anyone here can find otherwise, they can say so now. Otherwise they can hold their tongues as the mediocre should. :twisted:
 

mawashi

Hall of Fame
Is there any scientific literature about whether or not you can permanently harm your eyes by serving into the sun?

My work depends a great deal on my vision and I was serving into the sun today. Not only did I double fault a lot but it really scared me. I can't afford to have vision problems down the road.

I tried sunglasses but the ball was literally in the disk of the sun and even they didn't help.

I just want to know the health & medical aspects of it, not how to avoid it (by altering ball-toss, having such a consistent toss you can hit with eyes closed, etc.)

Thanks
Wahahaha... I love reading your posts, haven't haven't laughed so hard since you last post on kevlar.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Talk Tennis Guru
Ok, now that we got the mandatory Talk Tennis Worthless Post out of the way, anybody else like to chip in? Thanks very much.
... No offense but I don't trust the opinions of anyone here, just point me to it. thanks again ...
Clearly I once again overestimated the helpfulness of TT ;)
All right well since clearly the users of TT have the collective IQ of my pet hamster... I really wish thread creators could go through and delete the worthless posts from their own threads. Of course that would mean 99.5% of all the posts on this site would go.
Just adds noise to my signal. Of course this entire board is 99.9% noise.
Wow you guys have the IQ of my pet rabbit...
Yet another reason I'm pushing this site's admins for a 10-post limit per day.
... Otherwise they can hold their tongues as the mediocre should. :twisted:
Someone here needs an attitude adjustment (or, at least, a timeout). Seriously, lighten up dude. I've done a bit of research on the subject and was going to provide some input but seeing your disdain for us mediocre types, I'm not really inclined to share. Perhaps your hamster and your rabbit can assist you in finding the info you're after.
.
 
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Wupster
I'm urging a post limit of 8.3 per day. Relax -- you're safely under at only 8.29 per day. (I provide a public service by limiting myself to 0.88.)
 

jswinf

Professional
Of course the point is that since the majority of yellow wavelengths get through, whereas other wavelengths are filtered out, then everything is tinted yellow and the ball blends into the background.
No, that's not the point. Since the other wavelengths making up the background are filtered out while the yellow from the tennis ball is transmitted, the ball stands out more from the background. The background isn't tinted yellow if there are no yellow wavelengths coming from it, it's 'darkened.'

Ask your rabbit for help grasping this, it sounds like a smart bunny.
 
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