Has any player the size of Wawrinka been this effective?

#51
Yes, the heights and weights on the atp guide are often off.
this is likely just marketing, which is fine...but to truly answer the questions in this thread, we must look to science, cryptozoology, and also... the macabre.

I will explain.

You see, the one you call Wawrinka shapeshifts in the tradition of the manitou. His strength and stamina are like that of a bear, but he moves very lightly and efficiently, like a big cat or a wolf.

I know, I know everyone thinks he is a polish or czech child, raised in the francophone part of Switzerland -- and while that might be the official version, we now have compelling evidence that suggests otherwise.

The boy was raised in the wild, and dropped off close to one of the man villages near lake Genève. This is nothing new. An unlikely pair, a panther and a bear did this for Rafael Nadal (formerly know as Mowgli). Bagheirra and Balou released Mowgli, I mean Nadal, for the the opportunity that exists in the man village's commercial enterprise.

Similarly, a ferocious but gracious manitou host family made the same sacrifice for the one they call "Stanislas".
As cheesy a moniker as it is, "stan the man" is short for Stan The MANitou.

This specimen, like most manitou, looks and hits heavy, but is light on his feet. Wolfen and cat-like but also distincly bearish.
Muscled, but also lean, but also marbled, his mass is distributed differently than other atp guys who weigh the same, but come from various man villages.

Stan the manitou "Stanticipates" and runs well enough to play defense well, unlike boris, and some other stocky slow white guys raised on creamy foods and processed pork products.

He ends up being assumed fully man...Like Agassi or marcelo rios, only a few inches taller. Like alberto mancini and marshawn lynch. Or roberto carretero, only a bit thinner and taller. Like gordo...the argentine, agustin calleri, only a bit leaner. Like jo Tsonga, only shorter.

See what i mean? It is Shapeshifting, man. Shapeshifting Man...itou.
 
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#53
Yes, the heights and weights on the atp guide are often off. True. But this is likely marketing, which is fine...but to truly answer the questions in this thread, we must look to science, cryptozoology, and also... the macabre.

I will explain.

You see, the one you call Wawrinka shapeshifts in the tradition of the manitou. I know, I know everyone thinks he is a polish or czech child, raised in the francophone part of Switzerland -- and that might be the official version, but we now have compelling evidence the boy was raised in the wild, and dropped off close to one of the man villages near lake Genève. This is nothing new. An unlikely pair, a panther and a bear did this for Rafael Nadal (formerly know as Mowgli). Bagheirra and Balou released Mowgli, I mean Nadal, for the the opportunity that exists in the man village's commercial enterprise.

Similarly, a ferocious but gracious manitou host family made the same sacrifice for the one they call "Stanislas".
As cheesy a moniker as it is, "stan the man" is short for Stan The MANitou.

This specimen, like most manitou, looks and hits heavy, but is light on his feet. Wolfen but also bearish.
Muscled, but also lean, but also marbled, his mass is distributed differently than other atp guys who weigh the same, but come from various man villages.

Stanticipates and runs well enough to play defense well, unlike boris, and some other stocky slow white guys raised on creamy foods and processed pork products.

He ends up being assumed fully man...Like Agassi or marcelo rios, only a few inches taller. Like alberto mancini and marshawn lynch. Or roberto carretero, only a bit taller. Like gordo...the argentine, agustin calleri, only a bit leaner. Like tsonga, only shorter.

See what i mean? It is Shapeshifting, man. Shapeshifting Manitou.
Seriously, W.T.F?
 
#54
Yes, the heights and weights on the atp guide are often off. True. But this is likely marketing, which is fine...but to truly answer the questions in this thread, we must look to science, cryptozoology, and also... the macabre.

I will explain.

You see, the one you call Wawrinka shapeshifts in the tradition of the manitou. I know, I know everyone thinks he is a polish or czech child, raised in the francophone part of Switzerland -- and that might be the official version, but we now have compelling evidence the boy was raised in the wild, and dropped off close to one of the man villages near lake Genève. This is nothing new. An unlikely pair, a panther and a bear did this for Rafael Nadal (formerly know as Mowgli). Bagheirra and Balou released Mowgli, I mean Nadal, for the the opportunity that exists in the man village's commercial enterprise.

Similarly, a ferocious but gracious manitou host family made the same sacrifice for the one they call "Stanislas".
As cheesy a moniker as it is, "stan the man" is short for Stan The MANitou.

This specimen, like most manitou, looks and hits heavy, but is light on his feet. Wolfen but also bearish.
Muscled, but also lean, but also marbled, his mass is distributed differently than other atp guys who weigh the same, but come from various man villages.

Stanticipates and runs well enough to play defense well, unlike boris, and some other stocky slow white guys raised on creamy foods and processed pork products.

He ends up being assumed fully man...Like Agassi or marcelo rios, only a few inches taller. Like alberto mancini and marshawn lynch. Or roberto carretero, only a bit taller. Like gordo...the argentine, agustin calleri, only a bit leaner. Like tsonga, only shorter.

See what i mean? It is Shapeshifting, man. Shapeshifting Manitou.
haha what in blazes? But NICE!
 
#55
Haha, roddick85 and fedfosterwallace...sorry... just having some fun, having recently seen Jungle Book.

Prompted a little more research. You see, records indicate That Mowgli Nadal and stan the manitou were separately but coincidentally brought in from the wilderness on April 2, 1994.
This was the morning after the airing of an X Files episode called "Shape". True story.
The truth is out there.
 
#56
Yes, the heights and weights on the atp guide are often off. True. But this is likely marketing, which is fine...but to truly answer the questions in this thread, we must look to science, cryptozoology, and also... the macabre.

I will explain.

You see, the one you call Wawrinka shapeshifts in the tradition of the manitou. I know, I know everyone thinks he is a polish or czech child, raised in the francophone part of Switzerland -- and that might be the official version, but we now have compelling evidence the boy was raised in the wild, and dropped off close to one of the man villages near lake Genève. This is nothing new. An unlikely pair, a panther and a bear did this for Rafael Nadal (formerly know as Mowgli). Bagheirra and Balou released Mowgli, I mean Nadal, for the the opportunity that exists in the man village's commercial enterprise.

Similarly, a ferocious but gracious manitou host family made the same sacrifice for the one they call "Stanislas".
As cheesy a moniker as it is, "stan the man" is short for Stan The MANitou.

This specimen, like most manitou, looks and hits heavy, but is light on his feet. Wolfen but also bearish.
Muscled, but also lean, but also marbled, his mass is distributed differently than other atp guys who weigh the same, but come from various man villages.

Stanticipates and runs well enough to play defense well, unlike boris, and some other stocky slow white guys raised on creamy foods and processed pork products.

He ends up being assumed fully man...Like Agassi or marcelo rios, only a few inches taller. Like alberto mancini and marshawn lynch. Or roberto carretero, only a bit taller. Like gordo...the argentine, agustin calleri, only a bit leaner. Like tsonga, only shorter.

See what i mean? It is Shapeshifting, man. Shapeshifting Manitou.
 
#57
^Hahah^
I am going to take that as a slice backhand compliment and pass the love on to my English and creative writing teachers/professorS and editors. I am just happy some of you characters read it all the way through.
 
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#60
Lol, Stan isn't sub 10%. When your body fat level gets that low, veins and muscle ridges, etc stick out all over your body even when you're not flexing. He looks to be at a healthy 15-17%.
You are out of your mind, 15-17%, Stan wouldn't be able to last a set. Stan is sub 10% ,
 
#65
height-gate will forever hang over the atp as one of its most shameful acts. i can't believe people still deny it to this day. mods deleting the thread was an admittance of the cover-up
Yup. And novak with the actress. And do not get me started on Bouchard.
These conspiracies go all the way up to the globalists at Barclay's, the world bank, the sugar lobbyists, the queen, the rothschilds, the gettys, the bilderburg group, and the wee colonel sanders with his eleven herbs and spices which make ya crave his chicken fortnightly.

Ok, that was a bit of mike myers from "So i married an axe murderer", but yknow, i am with you on the conspiracy. And the cover up.
 
#67
I love how a guy like Wawrinka perplexes people. Guy has a great build for tennis. Look at that nudie of him. Great feet, great ankle, calves, thighs, butt, all you want for power and compression...

Upper body? He has leaned down to as low as he can, he is pretty svelte, but you can pretty well tell he might be one of those guys who puts on 40 fast pounds two years after he retires.

For now? Tons of brown fat, tons of energy and power. He is good. Of course, one good solid injury and we have seen the last of him, he is after all, 31..
 
#71
What you don't get is, you can be sub 10% and look normal. The body builders look like that because they lift weights, have no water in their bodies and they pump up before they go on stage. I have been below 10% for 20 years and have been as low as 4%. I am a normal, but fit looking guy. Wawrinka isn't pumping iron every day and he is well hydrated. He is sub 10%.
 

Sabratha

Talk Tennis Guru
#72
What you don't get is, you can be sub 10% and look normal. The body builders look like that because they lift weights, have no water in their bodies and they pump up before they go on stage. I have been below 10% for 20 years and have been as low as 4%. I am a normal, but fit looking guy. Wawrinka isn't pumping iron every day and he is well hydrated. He is sub 10%.
He doesn't look below 10% body-fat. He is not super ripped, although fairly athletic. I'd say he is from 10-15% body-fat. He has an "average guy" look to him.

By the way, 4% body-fat isn't "normal" and most guys who are that thin aren't healthy (not saying you aren't).

Just saying.
 
#74
He doesn't look below 10% body-fat. He is not super ripped, although fairly athletic. I'd say he is from 10-15% body-fat. He has an "average guy" look to him.

By the way, 4% body-fat isn't "normal" and most guys who are that thin aren't healthy (not saying you aren't).

Just saying.
You are incorrect about Stan and 4% isn't normal, it's someone who is in terrific shape. Just sayin.
 
#76
Wawrinka is absolutely tiny.

81kg at his height? That's laughable for an athlete in any sport apart from tennis and it's kind of embarrassing that tennis fans call him a 'stocky guy'.

If he played any contact sport he'd have to be a good 40kg heavier (basically 1.5x heavier than he is), and leaner as well - because, if he went into a tackle at his height and weight - he'd be sent flying into the 10th row of the stands.
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
#77
You are out of your mind, 15-17%, Stan wouldn't be able to last a set. Stan is sub 10% ,
Not a chance Stan is <10%. I think 15%-17% is as good of an estimate as any and is obviously fine for someone of his build. I think our perceptions are so skewed because it's something people lie about so much.

 

Noveson

Hall of Fame
#78
No chance Stan is 10 percent. Novak is around 10 percent, maybe a bit less. AM is probably 10. Stan looks around 15.
I doubt Novak is even that low. You're completely right people are really underestimating this stuff, probably because there's so much false information regarding it. People think everyone with a sixpack is 5% body fat.
 

Noveson

Hall of Fame
#79
Wawrinka is absolutely tiny.

81kg at his height? That's laughable for an athlete in any sport apart from tennis and it's kind of embarrassing that tennis fans call him a 'stocky guy'.

If he played any contact sport he'd have to be a good 40kg heavier (basically 1.5x heavier than he is), and leaner as well - because, if he went into a tackle at his height and weight - he'd be sent flying into the 10th row of the stands.
Huh? 6'0" 180 is about perfect for a tennis/soccer player. Nowhere near tiny. I mean **** Westbrook is only 190 and he's 6'3" and ripped.
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
#80
Huh? 6'0" 180 is about perfect for a tennis/soccer player. Nowhere near tiny. I mean **** Westbrook is only 190 and he's 6'3" and ripped.
Football is another world, though. Adrian Peterson is 6'1", 225 lbs, and sits around 9% bodyfat. Stan would end up in the hospital if he tried to open field tackle him.

 

Noveson

Hall of Fame
#81
Football is another world, though. Adrian Peterson is 6'1", 225 lbs, and sits around 9% bodyfat. Stan would end up in the hospital if he tried to open field tackle him.

....?Obviously. You said he's tiny. Comparing him to Adrian ****ing Peterson(or anyone in the NFL) doesn't make him tiny lol. Anyway I'm sure a few corners have brought him down, and they are averaging what like 5'11-6' and 195?
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
#82
....?Obviously. You said he's tiny. Comparing him to Adrian ****ing Peterson(or anyone in the NFL) doesn't make him tiny lol. Anyway I'm sure a few corners have brought him down, and they are averaging what like 5'11-6' and 195?
Well, I didn't say he's tiny, but it is funny when commentators paint him as some huge, muscled monster just because he can't wear his girlfriend's skinny jeans like Djokovic.
 

Noveson

Hall of Fame
#83
Well, I didn't say he's tiny, but it is funny when commentators paint him as some huge, muscled monster just because he can't wear his girlfriend's skinny jeans like Djokovic.
Oh my bad I mistook you for the other guy. Yeah I don't get that either, I don't even feel like he's that big relative to other tennis players. I think he's just got that look.
 
#84
Not a chance Stan is <10%. I think 15%-17% is as good of an estimate as any and is obviously fine for someone of his build. I think our perceptions are so skewed because it's something people lie about so much.

If Stan were 15% he wouldn't be in the top 100.
 

TheRed

Professional
#86
Lol, Stan isn't sub 10%. When your body fat level gets that low, veins and muscle ridges, etc stick out all over your body even when you're not flexing. He looks to be at a healthy 15-17%.
Ha, you have absolutely no idea what type of physique a professional athlete, including tennis players have. Stan is 10% max. None of the top 10% is above 12%. A regular high school jock who doesn't eat doritos all day long is hovering around 15%. A pro is gonna be far below that. I ran cross country and played tennis in high school. Came in at 8% body fat and was nowhere near having veins popping out. I just ate like a regular teenager too.
 
#87
Ha, you have absolutely no idea what type of physique a professional athlete, including tennis players have. Stan is 10% max. None of the top 10% is above 12%. A regular high school jock who doesn't eat doritos all day long is hovering around 15%. A pro is gonna be far below that. I ran cross country and played tennis in high school. Came in at 8% body fat and was nowhere near having veins popping out. I just ate like a regular teenager too.
David Nalbandian says hello. He destroyed many of the world's best players while on court at probably 20% bodyfat. I've seen other players on tour at much higher than 10%.

 
#88
Ha, you have absolutely no idea what type of physique a professional athlete, including tennis players have. Stan is 10% max. None of the top 10% is above 12%. A regular high school jock who doesn't eat doritos all day long is hovering around 15%. A pro is gonna be far below that. I ran cross country and played tennis in high school. Came in at 8% body fat and was nowhere near having veins popping out. I just ate like a regular teenager too.
Finally, someone who knows what they are talking about. Most of these jokers have no idea, they don't realize that you don't have to look like Hercules to be less than 10%. Their only reference of low body fat are photos of guys who lift weights religiously with veins popping out and that just isn't a tennis players regimen.
 
#89
I ran cross country and played tennis in high school. Came in at 8% body fat and was nowhere near having veins popping out. I just ate like a regular teenager too.
What was your height and weight at 8%? Obviously you hadn't filled out. You had a boys body. I was 6 foot 145 lbs in high school.

A guy with very low bf% is Gilles Simon. He's something like 6 foot and 155 lbs.
 
#90
What was your height and weight at 8%? Obviously you hadn't filled out. You had a boys body. I was 6 foot 145 lbs in high school.

A guy with very low bf% is Gilles Simon. He's something like 6 foot and 155 lbs.
You don't have to be skinny or extremely muscular to have low BF %
 
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#92
I havent see a guy his size, since Boris Becker move that fast around the court. Is he going to inspire the weight training movement in tennis again?
Slow courts + massive groundstrokes = success for a player like Stan

Fast courts are the death of him. In the 90s he's be a clay specialist.
 

droliver

Professional
#93
From 7 years of NFL combine data, the average body fat % of skill positions (RB/WR/DB) was 9.5-12% range

The NCAA cited a report putting D1 male tennis players on average at 12-16%
Ackland T. “Current Assessment of Body Composition in Sport.” Sports Med. 2012; 42(3): 227-249.

Being north of 30 yo and not particularly cut to begin with, it's unlikely that Wawrinka is outside of that mid teen range.
 

TheRed

Professional
#94
What was your height and weight at 8%? Obviously you hadn't filled out. You had a boys body. I was 6 foot 145 lbs in high school.

A guy with very low bf% is Gilles Simon. He's something like 6 foot and 155 lbs.
Filling out has nothing to do with it. Filling out means I would gain muscle, which would lower my fat %. I was 5' 8" and 145.
Anyway, all this talk is pointless. In this thread there's an essentially naked photo of Stan. He's lean. You can see the definition of his muscles. I've seen him playing shirtless. He's not fat by any means. He just isn't lanky like djokovic or Federer but he's just as fit.
Also stats indicating average body fat percentage didn't mean much within the context of this conversation. We're talking about Stan and other top ten guys. Not your average tennis player. Nabandian was an exception, but of course he was also an exceptional ball striker and still struggled to post consistent results relative to his skill level because he was fat. What I'm saying is, you just don't consistently stay in the top ten these days having average fitness and eating habits.
 

droliver

Professional
#95
Also stats indicating average body fat percentage didn't mean much within the context of this conversation. We're talking about Stan and other top ten guys. Not your average tennis player.
Yeah the average is kind of relevant here.

You've been presented with data showing the expected range of high performance athletes more then a decade younger then someone who doesn't demonstrate morphology and definition associated with ultra low % body fat to begin with. Stan is super fit for a 32 yo athlete, but you wouldn't expect him to be hovering at ultra low body fat or weight ranges because he competes in a sport that doesn't really demand it. That's what you see in the data on athletes in the mid to low ranges of wrestling, boxing, and some weightlifting athletes that come in under 10% body fat which are divided by weight classes and they do starvation level diets to get there.

If the freaky-deaky athletes in the NFL at the speed positions (who have so little body fat that their muscles have muscles) are coming in at 10-12%, then it's pretty obvious that Stan is going to live slightly above that, as is consistent with other reported data on high level 20 yo tennis players,, much less Stan in his 30's.
 
#96
Yeah the average is kind of relevant here.

You've been presented with data showing the expected range of high performance athletes more then a decade younger then someone who doesn't demonstrate morphology and definition associated with ultra low % body fat to begin with. Stan is super fit for a 32 yo athlete, but you wouldn't expect him to be hovering at ultra low body fat or weight ranges because he competes in a sport that doesn't really demand it. That's what you see in the data on athletes in the mid to low ranges of wrestling, boxing, and some weightlifting athletes that come in under 10% body fat which are divided by weight classes and they do starvation level diets to get there.

If the freaky-deaky athletes in the NFL at the speed positions (who have so little body fat that their muscles have muscles) are coming in at 10-12%, then it's pretty obvious that Stan is going to live slightly above that, as is consistent with other reported data on high level 20 yo tennis players,, much less Stan in his 30's.
The NFL numbers are "average", also some players are notorious for not being in peak condition since it's months after the season has already finished. Also, we are talking about the #3 player in the world, not an average Tennis player. Also, football players need muscle and lift to get bigger. Running backs will undoubtedly skew the NFL bf %'s higher since many RB's are 220 + lbs. Also, the top NFL receivers and CB's are most likely < 10%. Stan is only 181 lbs, how many football players are 180 lbs, not many and if you find a 180 lb football player, he is less than 10%.
 

Noveson

Hall of Fame
#97
Ha, you have absolutely no idea what type of physique a professional athlete, including tennis players have. Stan is 10% max. None of the top 10% is above 12%. A regular high school jock who doesn't eat doritos all day long is hovering around 15%. A pro is gonna be far below that. I ran cross country and played tennis in high school. Came in at 8% body fat and was nowhere near having veins popping out. I just ate like a regular teenager too.
Finally, someone who knows what they are talking about. Most of these jokers have no idea, they don't realize that you don't have to look like Hercules to be less than 10%. Their only reference of low body fat are photos of guys who lift weights religiously with veins popping out and that just isn't a tennis players regimen.
You don't have to be skinny or extremely muscular to have low BF %
Hahah you guys are just so far off base it's not even funny. I have zero idea where you are getting your information, but there aren't that many guys out there maintaining under 10% body fat. **** body builders that are peaking for a competition hit 5%, and they can't even maintain that for more than a day or two. Call me crazy, but you thinking you got an accurate body fat % in high school is hilarious. Much more likely you stepped on a digital scale or something.

The guys walking around under 10% body fat you can see every single muscle in their stomach. Wawrinka you can only see a suggestion of abs, I doubt he's much under 15%. Don't get me wrong he's obviously super fit, but none of these guys outside maybe Monfils or Novak have exceptionally low body fat for an athlete.
 
#98
Hahah you guys are just so far off base it's not even funny. I have zero idea where you are getting your information, but there aren't that many guys out there maintaining under 10% body fat. **** body builders that are peaking for a competition hit 5%, and they can't even maintain that for more than a day or two. Call me crazy, but you thinking you got an accurate body fat % in high school is hilarious. Much more likely you stepped on a digital scale or something.

The guys walking around under 10% body fat you can see every single muscle in their stomach. Wawrinka you can only see a suggestion of abs, I doubt he's much under 15%. Don't get me wrong he's obviously super fit, but none of these guys outside maybe Monfils or Novak have exceptionally low body fat for an athlete.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever had your BF tested? Are you in the Medical profession, Sports conditioning, anything that would give you any knowledge or experience in this subject?
 

TheRed

Professional
#99
Yeah the average is kind of relevant here.

You've been presented with data showing the expected range of high performance athletes more then a decade younger then someone who doesn't demonstrate morphology and definition associated with ultra low % body fat to begin with. Stan is super fit for a 32 yo athlete, but you wouldn't expect him to be hovering at ultra low body fat or weight ranges because he competes in a sport that doesn't really demand it. That's what you see in the data on athletes in the mid to low ranges of wrestling, boxing, and some weightlifting athletes that come in under 10% body fat which are divided by weight classes and they do starvation level diets to get there.

If the freaky-deaky athletes in the NFL at the speed positions (who have so little body fat that their muscles have muscles) are coming in at 10-12%, then it's pretty obvious that Stan is going to live slightly above that, as is consistent with other reported data on high level 20 yo tennis players,, much less Stan in his 30's.
Your "average" stat was of D1 tennis players, not a top 5 tennis player who has been there consistently the last few years and has won 3 grandslams. D1 tennis players don't play for a living. Yes, they are more serious than you or I but no, they, on average, are not as fit as pros. Plus, the stat you're citing says 12% to 16%? So you're claiming a pro like Wawrinka is near the top of that average? for D1 athletes? That's laughable.
You also misunderstand the requirements of a sport like football vs tennis. Football is not an endurance sport (yes, it requires lots of endurance but it's primarily a sport that focuses on explosiveness in short spurts). Football players need a lot of muscle for that explosiveness and have low BF% but you seem to imply tennis players are lesser athletes. Tennis is more of an endurance sport, hence having lots of large high-twitch muscles is not totally helpful. But in either case, it's not advantageous to lug around lots of useless weight in the form of fat.
What do you think was Lance Armstrong's body fat % at his peak? He "muscles [didn't] have muscles" but he was probably at 5-6%.
 

Noveson

Hall of Fame
You have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever had your BF tested? Are you in the Medical profession, Sports conditioning, anything that would give you any knowledge or experience in this subject?
I played D1 Pac 12 tennis. Yes we had our % tested in a bodpod. I'm one of the skinniest dudes there is, have had a six pack basically my whole life and I was 10%. There was one guy on the team lower than me and he was 9%, and a bunch of guys over 15%.

You're welcome to attack my credibility I really enjoy it.
 
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