Has Borg's athletic ability been exaggerated?

sandy mayer

Professional
There's no question Borg moved fantastically on a tennis court and was fitter than all his peers. But tennis is a unique athletic discipline. I doubt even Usain Bolt would move as well on a tennis court to balls as Nadal, Federer, Hewitt etc. But obviously the tennis pros on a 100m sprint would get killed.

People tend to talk about Borg as if he was a great track athlete before even getting on to the track. But here's some evidence which would say otherwise:

Here's a superstars link which gives Borg's times in the 100m and 600m steeplechase in 1976:http://www.thesuperstars.org/athletes/borg.html

Superstars was a multi event competition between sportsmen of different disciplines.

In the 100m Borg ran 12.3. He won his heat and it's possible he slowed down when he knew he'd won, but I'm really surprised at how ordinary a time it was. I suspect he could have got under 12 seconds but I would have thought with his reputation for speed he would have ran under 11. If you look around the superstars website you'll see there were plenty of people who ran much faster than 12.3 e.g. the English soccer player Malcolm Macdonald ran the 100m in 10.9.

In the 600m steeplechase Borg won his heat, but comparing his time to other sportsmen in other races it wasn't exceptional e.g. the English soccer player Kevin Keegan ran about 12 seconds faster. This is the race in which Borg beat an Olympic 110m hurdler. I'd always been told Borg won over 400m hurdles, and this has contributed to the mystique over Borg's athleticism. The difference between 600m steeplechase and 110m hurdles is even bigger than 110m hurdles and 400m hurdles, so Borg beating the 110 m hurdler over his event is not that big a deal. In fact the 110m hurdle runner wasn't considered to have an advantage over other sportsmen in the 600m steeplechase which is why he was allowed to compete in this event. The way superstars worked, sportsmen were barred from the event they were considered to have an unfair advantage in. e.g. Borg was not allowed to compete in the tennis event against soccer players, runners, cyclists etc. The sportsman considered to have an unfair advantage in the 600m steeplechase and barred was in fact an 800m runner.

Has the mystique around Borg led to exaggeration? I'm talking here about athleticism not tennis achievements. No one can question Borg's tennis achievements, and position as one of the true greats of tennis history.
 
Has the mystique around Borg led to exaggeration?

Possibly. Especially since McEnroe has said on the air that Borg was timed in the 100m at under 11 seconds. Guess you can't believe everything he says.

Nice to see you back sandy.

Its a shame the ATP can't time the top pros in the 100 m every 5 or 10 years or so to see if the players are really getting faster. Or even just 40 m. But of course that could make the sport look lame if they end up posting weak times.

Maybe have them do squats as well, I'm curious how strong they really are. They do that sort of stuff in other sports all the time(or at least stories of how draft picks fare, etc)
 
Those competition results are inconclusive, of course. Borg was fast, but watching Laver I can't say with a naked eye that he's slower.

However it is quite clear that Borg's footwork and anticipation were exemplary. Great top speed is worth little if one doesn't have the intangibles.
 
To answer the OP's question: I say, "it has, to an extent, but not more than Sampras' backhand has been exaggerated in recent days on this Board." Borg was a phenomenal athlete, though he wasn't a better athlete than a Nadal or a Federer. He's comparable, not greater. Similiarly, Sampras' backhand ranged from being very good in his prime (though only on faster surfaces) to being abysmal in his later years. Even at its best, it wasn't at the same level as Federer's or Agassi's though. Obviously, Pete had other tools, but there is a revisionist trend about Pete's game that's been popular around here recently).
 
Has the mystique around Borg led to exaggeration? I'm talking here about athleticism not tennis achievements. No one can question Borg's tennis achievements, and position as one of the true greats of tennis history.
Yes, I think so. There is a quotation from his wife Mariana, in her book about Bjorn beating a European champion runner (maybe Ivo van Damme?). This has been exaggerated to say that Borg had Olympic medalist speed.

But I do think Borg (at his peak) could've held his own with Nadal, and beaten Hewitt, et al.
 
Does anyone know what kind of conditions the 500m cycling event was performed under? For example was it a standing or flying start, was it on a velodrome, was it on a single speed track bike?

The reason I ask is because I'd always imagined Borg would have quite powerful legs, but his time of 51 seconds is extremely slow and I was quite surprised by this
 
Borg was a great athlete, but I do think the legend of his athleticism has been exaggerated. There are many players today who are as or more athletic than he was.

I think Borg's time for the 100 metres is decent. Although it's a comparatively short race, to maintain full intensity for that distance is not easy. The better sprinters can, which is why you see them pulling away towards the end of the race. They are not increasing their speed, they are just deteriorating at a slower rate than the others. Top speed is probably hit at about 40 or 50 metres, after which it is all downhill. In tennis, you never run long enough to hit top speed anyway, so measuring a player's 100 or 40 metre time will not necessarily tell you how they will move on a tennis court. Movement on a tennis court is about dynamic footwork, anticipation and acceleration over very short distances. You would want to measure them over 5 or 10 metres to see who has the best acceleration.
 
Borg's mystique has always meant exaggeration in almost every aspect by devout fans. (the same happens to Federer now for example...I long ago lost track of how many groundstrokes Fed "invented"...despite the fact that players have been hitting the same ones for 50 years! lol)

Nevertheless, the fact that Borg WON this event shows that undeniably, he was an elite athlete. I doubt many/any of the guys today would fare much better.

A couple things to bear in mind when looking at the results:

1.athlete test performances EG. the combines etc. are OFTEN....let's say generous...players/coaches/trainers etc...it's in their interest to exaggerate the results...on this I have first-hand knowledge

2.a slow speed doesn't always reflect potential. I've seen some pro athletes trying cycling for example, and doing very poorly, mostly because they are clearly uncomfortable on the bike, and just want to go smoothly and not fall!

3.related to 2, often the casual sprinters time cannot be compared to the sprint athlete, due to lack of skill. How much time has a sprinter put in on his start alone, the technical and psychological aspects. It's not like Borg is going to get the same start!

Having said that, I don't think most people think Borg truly would have competed with world class sprinters...though with enough practice, his times would be quite respectable (at least by non-sprinter standards) I think. Funny, I think I addressed this in regard to some wild claims about Graf recently.

In any case, we know Borg's speed and quickness on a tennis court were among the greatest of all time, and we know as an athlete, he was very impressive by the standards of the pro sports world in general. Beyond that, I don't think more specific claims can be made.
 
I believe many who "exaggerate" Borg's athleticisim, do so because during his playing days, he was much more athletic than the other other players. This along with the fact that he was indeed a very good athlete has resulted in his "legend" growing to ridiculous proportions.

Kind of like some posters who claim Rosewall hit 80 mph slice backhands, just because his backhand during it's time was one of the best shots in the game.
 
Similiarly, Sampras' backhand ranged from being very good in his prime (though only on faster surfaces) to being abysmal in his later years. Even at its best, it wasn't at the same level as Federer's or Agassi's though. Obviously, Pete had other tools, but there is a revisionist trend about Pete's game that's been popular around here recently).


I agree. Pete's backhand was average at best. This does not mean he didn't have days where it was lights out.

Also, people try to drive down hard that his running FH was better than it actually was, and try to paint a picture that he could hit that shot at any time. Nothing could be further from the truth. Although it was a great shot, he missed it much more than he hit it.
 
I agree with what's been said about Borg. I think he's been subject to the same mystique that many great players have surrounding them.
 
The question remains, who have been the better overall athlete than Borg on a tennis court? The Swedes measured all their top athletes, in terms of leg strength, etc. Borg consistently measured at the top of the charts. For example, his leg strength was measured to be greater than a top Olympic Skier. They say the best athletes tend to win Wimbledon. Borg, through his quickness and athleticism, was able to win 41 matches in a row, and 5 titles in a row (6 straight finals, 76-81). He did that with a baseline oriented game, on lightning quick grass courts. Only a truly remarkable athlete, not just a fast one, could pull this off. He could simultaneously outlast anyone on the red clay at RG.

There's no denying how fast Borg was on the court and then there's the other thing, his stamina. That's what made him remarkable. He was the fastest and fittest player out there. He could have more than held his own in today's game, which so replicates the style he ushered in.
 
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The Swedes measured all their top athletes, in terms of leg strength, etc. Borg consistently measured at the top of the charts. For example, his leg strength was measured to be greater than a top Olympic Skier.

You got my curiosity up with this comment. I was thinking to myself, surely, he cannot mean Ingemar Stenmark.

So I googled it, and found this Time magazine article:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,923327,00.html

"Borg's physical gifts alone would have been enough to make him extraordinary: regular pulse rate 35, usual blood pressure 70 over 30. His countryman Ingemar Stenmark, the slalom skier, placed second to him in a European health institute's study of the strength in athletes' legs."

Stenmark was no ordinary "slalom skier," but still considered the greatest of all time by many. Interesting stuff.
 
Borg's mystique has always meant exaggeration in almost every aspect by devout fans. (the same happens to Federer now for example...I long ago lost track of how many groundstrokes Fed "invented"...despite the fact that players have been hitting the same ones for 50 years! lol)

Nevertheless, the fact that Borg WON this event shows that undeniably, he was an elite athlete. I doubt many/any of the guys today would fare much better.

A couple things to bear in mind when looking at the results:

1.athlete test performances EG. the combines etc. are OFTEN....let's say generous...players/coaches/trainers etc...it's in their interest to exaggerate the results...on this I have first-hand knowledge

2.a slow speed doesn't always reflect potential. I've seen some pro athletes trying cycling for example, and doing very poorly, mostly because they are clearly uncomfortable on the bike, and just want to go smoothly and not fall!

3.related to 2, often the casual sprinters time cannot be compared to the sprint athlete, due to lack of skill. How much time has a sprinter put in on his start alone, the technical and psychological aspects. It's not like Borg is going to get the same start!

Having said that, I don't think most people think Borg truly would have competed with world class sprinters...though with enough practice, his times would be quite respectable (at least by non-sprinter standards) I think. Funny, I think I addressed this in regard to some wild claims about Graf recently.

In any case, we know Borg's speed and quickness on a tennis court were among the greatest of all time, and we know as an athlete, he was very impressive by the standards of the pro sports world in general. Beyond that, I don't think more specific claims can be made.

Great post, Data. It sounds like you have a very level-headed perspective on this one.

Best,
Chopin
 
uh bolt can't run full speed, stop and turn and run the other way on a dime either, and yes borg slowed down , why go all out if u have it won
 
Well, in Sports, the very best tend to have their accomplishments somewhat overblown or exaggerated at times, but there is usually also a great deal of truth that causes this to occur.

For example, Nadal may be the best mover in the Game today, but that tends to be exaggerated by some, at times, when it is asserted that, "no one has ever come close to Nadal in terms of court speed/movement!". That's an oversimplification and exaggeration. In the same way, it may be an exaggeration to say for example, that Borg's athletic ability is far superior to all other players. You have to be very careful with such absolute statements. Yet, on the other hand, it's quite feasible that in reality, very few players have had the overall athletic prowess that Borg had.

One can ask the same type question when it comes to the feats/accomplishments of many other tennis players as well.

-Has Roger Federer's shotmaking abilities, especially on the FH wing been exaggerated? Yes, but there is a reason that's the case! There's some truth to many "over the top" statements.
-Has McEnroe's volleying ability been exaggerated? Yes.
-Has Rod Laver's overall shotmaking abilities been exaggerated? Yes.
-Has Nadal's court coverage, movement and mental toughness been exaggerated? Yes.
-Has the Jimmy Connors' ability on the return of serve been exaggerated? Yes.
-Has Andy Roddick's service ability been exaggerated? Yes.

So, has Borg's athletic ability been exaggerated at times? Yes it has. Yet, there is a reason for that. There's a great deal of truth among such sentiments as well. He was a great athlete and tennis player and was as much "substance" as "hype". The great thing about him was that from him came pure substance and absolutely no hype.
 
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i have not seen all of his matches, but i have never seen borg get tired in a tennis match so that must count for something. i can only think of a couple of other players i can say that about..
 
i have not seen all of his matches, but i have never seen borg get tired in a tennis match so that must count for something. i can only think of a couple of other players i can say that about..

He did have phenomenal stamina, but also he was one of those guys that barely sweats (though there may be a connection there). Opponents often remarked that they would be dripping wet, but they would look over and Borg would be completely dry. Here's an example. Watch the gets by Borg on rubico against Connors. After he wins a two set match, look at how Borg looks as he strolls off the court, looking as if it was "just another day at the office".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTMx--E0OhY (Thanks to TW poster Krosero).

I wish there was much more video created back during those years, because more Tennis fans would be able to better appreciate players such as Borg, Connors, and McEnroe if they were able to watch a lot more footage. You are right though, I've thought the same thing. Borg basically looked a lot like this after a few sets, except for the beard!

2995-1.jpg
 
Well, in Sports, the very best tend to have their accomplishments somewhat overblown or exaggerated at times, but there is usually also a great deal of truth that causes this to occur.

For example, Nadal may be the best mover in the Game today, but that tends to be exaggerated by some, at times, when it is asserted that, "no one has ever come close to Nadal in terms of court speed/movement!". That's an oversimplification and exaggeration. In the same way, it may be an exaggeration to say for example, that Borg's athletic ability is far superior to all other players. You have to be very careful with such absolute statements. Yet, on the other hand, it's quite feasible that in reality, very few players have had the overall athletic prowess that Borg had.

One can ask the same type question when it comes to the feats/accomplishments of many other tennis players as well.

-Has Roger Federer's shotmaking abilities, especially on the FH wing been exaggerated? Yes, but there is a reason that's the case! There's some truth to many "over the top" statements.
-Has McEnroe's volleying ability been exaggerated? Yes.
-Has Rod Laver's overall shotmaking abilities been exaggerated? Yes.
-Has Nadal's court coverage, movement and mental toughness been exaggerated? Yes.
-Has the Jimmy Connors' ability on the return of serve been exaggerated? Yes.
-Has Andy Roddick's service ability been exaggerated? Yes.

So, has Borg's athletic ability been exaggerated at times? Yes it has. Yet, there is a reason for that. There's a great deal of truth among such sentiments as well. He was a great athlete and tennis player and was as much "substance" as "hype". The great thing about him was that from him came pure substance and absolutely no hype.

Excellent post Borg Number One. In general sports heroes often have an image that on occasion exceeds their abilities but as you wrote there is generally much truth to the myths.

Let's use Federer as an example here. I admire the Federer game and think he's a wonderful player but sometimes in reading the posts you would get the impression that Federer's forehand never misses and he can hit the ball through a thick steel wall (after the ball lands in of course) and after it hits the wall it will travel around the Earth until it returns right to the ball boys or ball girls feet.

I've read examples of Federer being in God mode which is a mode that I didn't realize was available to some humans.

This is just not the case with Federer, I've read descriptions of Bill Tilden in the 1920's that make him seem like Superman except that Superman was far weaker.

No, Borg did not run faster than the speed of light and reached his opponent's shots before they hit them but he was a tremendous athlete with great speed.

The guy was very fast, how fast is subject to debate but clearly he had either the most mobility in tennis in his day or was very close. The guy had great reflexes, great power and super stamina. He seemed to be able to wear out other players in the first set on red clay.

I think it's safe to say that Borg was probably the best overall athlete in tennis in his day and arguably the greatest ever in the sport but you can say that about Tilden, Gonzalez, Hoad, Nastase, Noah and some others. I'll leave out the current players for now because that would start too many arguments.
 
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Exactly PC1. Well said. The Federer example is very apt here. I guess that's why they call players such as Borg, Laver, McEnroe, Tilden, etc. as Sporting Legends. There is often a great deal of truth behind many sporting "stories" or "tales", yet some exaggeration and hyperbole are often involved as well.
 
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