Has Djokovic become a clearer GOAT in tennis than Messi and Jordan in their sports?

Has Djokovic become a clearer GOAT in tennis than Messi and Jordan in their sports?

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Entername

Entername

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The Serb is pretty clearer the GOAT of tennis now as he basically holds every record in the sport and he's still the number one player whereas his closest competitors (Fed and Rafa) are both more or less done. At this rate, it feels like he can become an even clearer GOAT in tennis than Messi and Jordan are in football and basketball, respectively.

Messi after winning the WC + Golden Boot + 8th Ballon D'or has basically locked up the GOAT title for good over the past year, clear of Pele, Maradona, and CR7.

Jordan has been the GOAT of basketball for a long time now but LeBron has challenged him in the last 20 years but I still think MJ is better but not by the margins of the other two imo.

Thoughts?
 
helterskelter said:
Bull is undefeated outside of 2022, when he suffered some unfathomably surprising losses when they started banning people. He is the clear goat.
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Nadal is definitely not GOAT as there is someone from his own era better than him. Djokovic is the best if his era, whether he is GOAT nobody can say for sure as you cannot compare across eras.
I know of course your post was sarcasm.
 
threehandedbackhand said:
Facts? Which exactly?
Fact that Federer plays tennis more beautifully than anyone before?
Fact that Federer is the all-time most revered athlete in the world for his grace and elegance on and off the court?
Fact that Roger's legend can only grow because in time his legacy will prove more perpetual than any number?
Huh?
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Facts but none of the ones you listed.
 
Oui.

Tennis (in aingles) is an individual sport and thus it becomes easier to establish comparisons.

After all, there're good arguments to put Wilton Norman Chamberlain or LeBron James as GOATs of basketball, and Pele and Cristiano as GOATs of football.
 
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Sport said:
Oui.

Tennis (in aingles) is an individual sport and thus it becomes easier to stablish comparisoms.

After all, there're good arguments to put Wilton Norman Chamberlain or LeBron James as GOATs of basketball, and Pele and Cristiano as GOATs of football.
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Tennis still has the element of different eras as any other sport. You can say Djo is the best of this era same as Sampras, Borg, Laver, Pancho. Throw the big three under 90s conditions and my guess would be all three wins less but Fed wins the most.
That being said Djo is clearer GOAT than Messi since Messi is clearly not GOAT.
 
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Nole achieved the most via the hardest way:
Career wins against top5: 122
Career wins against top10: 257
Career wins against opponent with Elo>=2400: 36
Career wins against opponent with Elo>=2300: 80
Highest Average Opponent Rank
Highest Average Opponent Elo Rating
All lead the 2nd by a wide margin
If that is not clear GOAT, then what is clear GOAT?
 
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threehandedbackhand said:
Facts? Which exactly?
Fact that Federer plays tennis more beautifully than anyone before?
Fact that Federer is the all-time most revered athlete in the world for his grace and elegance on and off the court?
Fact that Roger's legend can only grow because in time his legacy will prove more perpetual than any number?
Huh?
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You know, one cant be labeled as the greastest in any sport because of how beautiful his form/strokes are/were, or because of how much elegance and grace he displayed, or how many more fans he has than the rest.

If those were the points considered to determine greatness, then yeah Roger would be the indisputed GOAT.
 
Neptune said:
Nole achieved the most via the hardest way:
Career wins against top5: 120
Career wins against top10: 255
Career wins against opponent with Elo>=2400: 36
Career wins against opponent with Elo>=2300: 80
Highest Average Opponent Rank
Highest Average Opponent Elo Rating
All lead the 2nd by a wide margin
If that is not clear GOAT, then what is clear GOAT?
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Don’t know when exactly that idiotic ELO stuff entered into tennis. It is good for chess but does not work for tennis.
 
How can you have a bigger talent pool than football. Team vs solo is where it gets tricky.
 
Hard to say that George Herman "Babe" Ruth, Jack Nicklaus, and Sugar Ray Robinson have major competitors in the GOAT discussion. Ruth was a great pitcher and won WS titles with the Boston Red Sox before he joined the Yankees and became the greatest slugger of all time (7 rings). Ruth was hitting more homers than entire teams did collectively something can't be said about Ty Cobb with his hits and stolen bases. SRR at one point was like 128-1 and avenged his only loss. He never was knocked out in 200 bouts (had 1 stoppage lost due to heat exhaustion). Not only did Nicklaus win 18 majors he was second place 19 times.
 
[content deleted by user]
 
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TheFifthSet said:
Footy’s talent pool >>>>> though (same reason why I think tennis can never have the “GOAT athlete” even in theory, cmon lol like 250 guys in the world break even playing it).
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Absolutely correct. However, I also do think, football will also never have the GOAT athlete, even if it has the biggest talent pool. The GOAT athlete, if there is one, will likely come from basketball, NFL, or track and fields (Wilt, Brown, Bo, Herschel or Jim Thorpe would be good candidates). Football too much depends on sport specific technique and raw athleticism will only bring you so far.
 
I would rate Gretzky also the GOAT, but several things should also be considered. Gretzky never won another Cup outside of that talented Oilers team that had Messier, Fuhr, Kurri, and Coffey. Messier did win 2 more Cups without Gretsky. I would put Gretzky higher than both Bobby Orr and Mario Lemieux but not by the same margins as some other athletes.
 
No, because he never transcended the sport. And also, as mentioned tennis is a more niche sport than football or basketball. There are far less people making a living at it, so logically there are less great athletes you have to compete against
 
Sport said:
Oui.

Tennis (in aingles) is an individual sport and thus it becomes easier to establish comparisons.

After all, there're good arguments to put Wilton Norman Chamberlain or LeBron James as GOATs of basketball, and Pele and Cristiano as GOATs of football.
Click to expand...
You can make an argument for Wilt Chamberlain, but only if championships are not part of the equation and you're only talking individual stats
 
People in war torn countries have been seen wearing the Messi or Ronaldo jersey. That is how much football is a religion. Tennis is for a bunch of elites, comparatively speaking. There is absolutely no comparison between Football and tennis. Tennis is like a mosquito in front of an elephant. To emerge as one of the greatest players to ever play football is far, far more impressive than emerging as one of the greatest in tennis.
 
RS said:
The Pele > Messi arguments does make me smile. Tell that to the media.
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Well first of all the media is often clueless and second of all it is their job to promote the sport which means telling the fans that they are witnessing history and the best of all times is just in front of their eyes is a better strategy than praising a player of yore as the best who hardly any from the younger generation even knows.
 
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threehandedbackhand said:
Facts? Which exactly?
Fact that Federer plays tennis more beautifully than anyone before?
Fact that Federer is the all-time most revered athlete in the world for his grace and elegance on and off the court?
Fact that Roger's legend can only grow because in time his legacy will prove more perpetual than any number?
Huh?
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That's funny everything you listed.... are not facts. HAHAHA

beautifully, elegance.... LMFAO
 
Azure said:
People in war torn countries have been seen wearing the Messi or Ronaldo jersey. That is how much football is a religion. Tennis is for a bunch of elites, comparatively speaking. There is absolutely no comparison between Football and tennis. Tennis is like a mosquito in front of an elephant. To emerge as one of the greatest players to ever play football is far, far more impressive than emerging as one of the greatest in tennis.
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When Pele came to Nigeria in 1969 to play a meaningless friendly with Santos against a local Nigerian club the three year Nigerian civil war was stopped for a day for the match to go ahead, and this was before internet or social media. One can ofc argue whether this level of hero-worshipping is a good thing.
 
threehandedbackhand said:
Facts? Which exactly?
Fact that Federer plays tennis more beautifully than anyone before?
Fact that Federer is the all-time most revered athlete in the world for his grace and elegance on and off the court?
Fact that Roger's legend can only grow because in time his legacy will prove more perpetual than any number?
Huh?
Click to expand...
This content is sponsored by ROLEX™
 
AgassiSuperSlam11 said:
Hard to say that George Herman "Babe" Ruth, Jack Nicklaus, and Sugar Ray Robinson have major competitors in the GOAT discussion. Ruth was a great pitcher and won WS titles with the Boston Red Sox before he joined the Yankees and became the greatest slugger of all time (7 rings). Ruth was hitting more homers than entire teams did collectively something can't be said about Ty Cobb with his hits and stolen bases. SRR at one point was like 128-1 and avenged his only loss. He never was knocked out in 200 bouts (had 1 stoppage lost due to heat exhaustion). Not only did Nicklaus win 18 majors he was second place 19 times.
Click to expand...

Babe Ruth would not make contact if he stepped into the box against Josh Hader
 
Azure said:
People in war torn countries have been seen wearing the Messi or Ronaldo jersey. That is how much football is a religion. Tennis is for a bunch of elites, comparatively speaking. There is absolutely no comparison between Football and tennis. Tennis is like a mosquito in front of an elephant. To emerge as one of the greatest players to ever play football is far, far more impressive than emerging as one of the greatest in tennis.
Click to expand...

That's true in some sense. The pool of players is so much bigger. Interesting point.
 
threehandedbackhand said:
Facts? Which exactly?
Fact that Federer plays tennis more beautifully than anyone before?
Fact that Federer is the all-time most revered athlete in the world for his grace and elegance on and off the court?
Fact that Roger's legend can only grow because in time his legacy will prove more perpetual than any number?
Huh?
Click to expand...
Find a different joke
 
weakera said:
Babe Ruth would not make contact if he stepped into the box against Josh Hader
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That is like stating Bill Tilden and Rod Laver wouldn't be able to return John Isner's serve. Different eras and different equipment. Babe Ruth was far ahead of his peers like anyone before or after him.
 
AgassiSuperSlam11 said:
That is like stating Bill Tilden and Rod Laver wouldn't be able to return John Isner's serve. Different eras and different equipment. Babe Ruth was far ahead of his peers like anyone before or after him.
Click to expand...

That shouldn't be the standard at all. Babe Ruth is a legend but he was essentially playing a different sport. And Babe Ruth played against segregated competition which hugely inflated his numbers.
 
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