Has on court coaching helped lead to the drop in the level of the WTA?

[jamesblakefan#1]

I don't want this to be another WTA bashing thread. If you're going to comment, please bring constructive criticism, not the same stuff heard 1000 times already.

My theory is that the drop in the level in the WTA has to be somewhat related to the on-court coaching, which goes on in regular tourneys but not at the slams. The players have lost the ability to be out there and think on their own, and now have become too reliant on their coaches to help them get out of tough situations.

A sad example of this would be Dinara Safina. She's probably so used to her coach helping her on the regular tour, that when she gets in those tight moments in the slams, she has no answer and basically chokes. The coaching thing has made coaches become a crutch for the ladies. Instead of developing a different game plan on their own within a match, they can basically wait for their coach to come at the end of the set and help them out.

This shows through in the slam matches, where the coaching is not allowed. This leads to several players suffering noticably. I think the WTA needs to end this immediately, in order to save the level of it's tour and not just have a bunch of coaching drones out there in 10 years. Thoughts?

 

[norbac]

Hmmm, interesting theory. They're getting so used to the on court coaching that their mental game has faltered when they're on their own.....

 

[Kegzz]

I agree yeah, but if on court coaching helps them keep good form in a match during WTA tournies then please God let's keep it.

 

[IvanAndreevich]

I think the drop started before on-court coaching rules took effect.

 

[jones101]

Hmmm, interesting theory. They're getting so used to the on court coaching that their mental game has faltered when they're on their own.....

I definiteky think this is true.

2 good examples are Safina and Wozniacki.

Both play well, and benefit from their coaches advice, usually play better after a chat with thieir coach, but come crunch time in the slams, both fall apart. They have become so used to being told how to play that they seem a bit lost during matches at slams.

But on the main tour both befit greatly from this.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

Should the WTA get rid of it then, if it's reducing the quality of play at the slams, the biggest events of the year?

 

[Topaz]

On court coaching is not used by all of the players.

Coaching (during a match, without the coach actually on the court but in the stands) is used by both men and women alike. The WTA just 'allowed' what was already happening anyway.

So, no, I don't think on court coaching has lead to any drop in the level of the WTA tour. I think it is yet another pathetic attempt on this board to devalue the women's tour.

 

[rod99]

personally, i think it's ridiculous that some of the tournaments offer on court coaching. having to figure things out yourself is what makes tennis different than any other sport. regardless, they either need to allow it at all tournaments (including grand slams) or don't allow it at any tournaments. it's ridiculous the number of WTA players that look up to their coaches after every point.

i remember an interview with federer several years ago where they asked him why he doesn't look up to his box very often. he responded by saying "what if everyone in his box got sick for a big match; i would then be totally lost"

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

So, no, I don't think on court coaching has lead to any drop in the level of the WTA tour. I think it is yet another pathetic attempt on this board to devalue the women's tour.

Well how do you explain Safina looking to her coach in every tight moment she gets in, and looking like a lost puppy in every big moment she's in in a slam. Surely she's helped on the regular tour by coaching, but when she's on her own during a slam, she gets lost mentally and tactically, and it clearly affects her. Don't you think it has led to players recently being less thoughtful on their own?

And I wasn't trying to devalue the WTA, they do that on their own when they say players need coaches on court, when it's never been done before and the ATP still doesn't need it.

 

[flyinghippos101]

hmmm that's actually an interesting theory. My theory is that the standard of the WTA lowered just as recently as Henin's early retirement. A dominating player would serve as a motivational force to someone to improve however considering that most of the tops players cannot maintain any sort of consistancy and are highly erratic, reduces the drive for players to try harder knowing full well of the rather limited effort needed to dispatch even the top 10 players hence the modern WTA ridden with early round upsets.

 

[flyinghippos101]

So, no, I don't think on court coaching has lead to any drop in the level of the WTA tour. I think it is yet another pathetic attempt on this board to devalue the women's tour.

I don't think the OP's assertion about the WTA is in any way devaluing the WTA. Anyone can see that the recent level of tennis has degraded considering most matches that are concluded with bagel sets and no player that is consistant enough to maintain the #1 ranking for more than a few months

 

[shell]

I don't think it has had any effect really. The most important part of the coaching is done in the preparation for the year, and in the preparation for the particular match. What are they going to say in 2 min. to change any of that. Most of the conversations are about focus, hit your shots, don't go for too much on your first serve.....yada yada. Nothing the players didn't already know.

 

[CCNM]

What's the purpose of having a coach if he/she can't help you?

 

[CCNM]

What's the purpose of having a coach if he/she can't help you?

 

[boredone3456]

Personally...I am down the middle on the issue. I can see how it can help. Players can go to their coach if they feel they cannot figure it out on their own in a situation and to me the idea is they learn as they go. For younger players first on the tour who may have trained a lot but are not sure how to handle tournament atmosphere this can be a help. Some of the snatches of conversation you hear are just peptalks from coaches, the kind of "its ok, calm down...yadda yadda yadda". This kind of thing happens when the coaches are in the stands anyway so to me...its not as big of an issue.

Some players call them out frequently, but some players hardly ever call them at all unless they are in real trouble. Even with on court coaching however, matches at the non-slam events are not markedly better than the slam events. you can get rid of it, but do you really think that is going to make things better? The problem is not with the on court coaching..its that many players do not seem to have been taught by these same coaches different tactics apart from hitting the ball at hard deep angles. We often Criticize the women for having no alternate plan ( I do it to), but I think that the coaches of many players do not teach them enough for them to be able to formulate plans. Many top women cannot seem to even hit a strong dropshot, lob, or swinging volley consistantly and follow after it..and part of that is on the coachs for not drilling the women on these things.

The arguement can be made that it leads to worse quality at the slams, but coaches sit in the stands and probably give their player analysis of each match after it happens no matter whether they won or lost...if they are a good coach anyway, and yet Safina with this (assuming its happening) still struggles. To me Safina's problems are part her own and part her coaches...she has been going on like this for a year and her coach has done nothing to improve the situation for her and teach her how to self meditate...I have said before that she needs a new coach..and I still beleive that/

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

My theory is that the drop in the level in the WTA has to be somewhat related to the on-court coaching, which goes on in regular tourneys but not at the slams. The players have lost the ability to be out there and think on their own, and now have become too reliant on their coaches to help them get out of tough situations.

A sad example of this would be Dinara Safina. She's probably so used to her coach helping her on the regular tour, that when she gets in those tight moments in the slams, she has no answer and basically chokes. The coaching thing has made coaches become a crutch for the ladies. Instead of developing a different game plan on their own within a match, they can basically wait for their coach to come at the end of the set and help them out.

Not using a coach in the manner you're describing is just one of the marks of a pro (does not mean that person has the talent to win the most important events, but at least they're not getting help). Yes, we know some players occasionally look to the player's box (usually out of instinct or some emotional need), but i've seen players such as Henin & Sharapova shoot looks to their box during crucial moments of a match that appeared to be more than seeking emotional support. I'm sure everyone recalls Myskina's accusations against Sharapova's father about a '04 match in Los Angeles, then, there's his coaching incident during the '07 AO, and how that was percieved...

Bottom line: if one is not fully prepared to take that stage of one, then get out, and the game will not miss that type of person in any case. Tennis is about one facing one not one facing two or three.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

Just watching the Cincy final today reminds me how f'ed up on court coaching is. It really makes the women's game look even weaker in comparison to the men's game.

Players should fight their way out of tough situations on their own, and not be able to talk to a coach on changeovers.

 

[namelessone]

I posted this in another topic but it is fitting for the extremely pathetic of the WTA.

Here it is:"I couldn't sleep last night so I was switching channels and stumbled across the cincy women's final.I don't watch WTA much cause it sucks but I knew that they were allowed on-court coaching in non-Slam events.Seeing it live made me realize how ridiculous and silly it is.Safina was resting between games and her coach(at least i think he was her coach)was giving her a 5 minute lecture about tactics,what she should do,what she shouldn't do and so on.Seeing this made me realise why Safina looked lost in the RG final when she couldn't get any advice and frankly it's pathetic.What kind of a player are you if you can't analyze your own game while playing but have to have someone do it for you? Another reason why the WTA sucks ass.And people wonder why there are so many mental midgets in the WTA...."

 

[makinao]

I don't think so. If on-court coaching was such a bad idea, then team events such as Davis cup would be terrible since they have always allowed coaching.

 

[Grass_for_cows]

The problem is not with the on court coaching..its that many players do not seem to have been taught by these same coaches different tactics apart from hitting the ball at hard deep angles. We often Criticize the women for having no alternate plan ( I do it to), but I think that the coaches of many players do not teach them enough for them to be able to formulate plans. Many top women cannot seem to even hit a strong dropshot, lob, or swinging volley consistantly and follow after it..and part of that is on the coachs for not drilling the women on these things.

If those coaches are out there telling the women to start hitting some swinging volleys or strong dropshots then maybe on-court coaching is a bad idea.

 

[TheMagicianOfPrecision]

I don't want this to be another WTA bashing thread. If you're going to comment, please bring constructive criticism, not the same stuff heard 1000 times already.

My theory is that the drop in the level in the WTA has to be somewhat related to the on-court coaching, which goes on in regular tourneys but not at the slams. The players have lost the ability to be out there and think on their own, and now have become too reliant on their coaches to help them get out of tough situations.

A sad example of this would be Dinara Safina. She's probably so used to her coach helping her on the regular tour, that when she gets in those tight moments in the slams, she has no answer and basically chokes. The coaching thing has made coaches become a crutch for the ladies. Instead of developing a different game plan on their own within a match, they can basically wait for their coach to come at the end of the set and help them out.

This shows through in the slam matches, where the coaching is not allowed. This leads to several players suffering noticably. I think the WTA needs to end this immediately, in order to save the level of it's tour and not just have a bunch of coaching drones out there in 10 years. Thoughts?

Good thread jbf, id say yes. A very good example, i watched the Dane Caroline Wocniacki earlier this summer in Bastad, she was coached by her dad, EVERY time he went into the court coaching her she lost 2 games in a row! Every time, like 4-5 times during the match, at the end the commentators were laughing about it, lots of "self-made-daddy-coaches" on the WTA-tour that doesnt know very much about tennis except for the things they have read in books.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I don't think the on-court coaching has helped or hurt the quality of play.

I would eliminate on-court coaching except for cases of injury time-out. That would eliminate the Mary Pierce variety of gamesmanship. I like that the opponent gets something useful to do during the break (get coached), and I like the disincentive it provides for gamesmanship.

That said . . . I really enjoy hearing Dinara Safina's coach talk to her. He is so spot on in what she is doing wrong. And she responds well to it and plays better . . . for five minutes. It's a bummer when the coaching isn't in English. You'd think the network could spring for a translator, but nooooo.

 

[Fedfan1234]

I don't want this to be another WTA bashing thread. If you're going to comment, please bring constructive criticism, not the same stuff heard 1000 times already.

My theory is that the drop in the level in the WTA has to be somewhat related to the on-court coaching, which goes on in regular tourneys but not at the slams. The players have lost the ability to be out there and think on their own, and now have become too reliant on their coaches to help them get out of tough situations.

A sad example of this would be Dinara Safina. She's probably so used to her coach helping her on the regular tour, that when she gets in those tight moments in the slams, she has no answer and basically chokes. The coaching thing has made coaches become a crutch for the ladies. Instead of developing a different game plan on their own within a match, they can basically wait for their coach to come at the end of the set and help them out.

This shows through in the slam matches, where the coaching is not allowed. This leads to several players suffering noticably. I think the WTA needs to end this immediately, in order to save the level of it's tour and not just have a bunch of coaching drones out there in 10 years. Thoughts?

I agree on the long run, I doubt we have seen the effects already. On court coaching is a bad idea, because it makes players lazy. They can start to think "I will ask the coach what to do after this set". At the slams they would have to think for themselves and this will prove to be more difficult if you are not used to it.
The mental aspect is also reduced, if you are used to a coach saying words to motivate you after you just lost a set it is different when you suddenly have to find some kind of inspiration from your own game. It is like an addiction.
I say remove the on court coaching and if they still catch players being coached from the stands and you really don't want this to happen, let them lose 2 consecutive games,this would solve the problem of unfairness.

I would eliminate on-court coaching except for cases of injury time-out. That would eliminate the Mary Pierce variety of gamesmanship. I like that the opponent gets something useful to do during the break (get coached), and I like the disincentive it provides for gamesmanship.

I can agree on this, would not be wise to fake a injury in this case.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

I don't think the on-court coaching has helped or hurt the quality of play.

I would eliminate on-court coaching except for cases of injury time-out. That would eliminate the Mary Pierce variety of gamesmanship. I like that the opponent gets something useful to do during the break (get coached), and I like the disincentive it provides for gamesmanship.

That said . . . I really enjoy hearing Dinara Safina's coach talk to her. He is so spot on in what she is doing wrong. And she responds well to it and plays better . . . for five minutes. It's a bummer when the coaching isn't in English. You'd think the network could spring for a translator, but nooooo.

Mary Jo Fernandez usually translates the coaches who don't speak English.

 

[motrengaw]

I don't see that the level of play has dropped.

 

[flyinghippos101]

I don't see that the level of play has dropped.

Then you probably didn't watch the past few grand slams. Imagine, less than four aces, atleast 15 DFs and players who look like a lost child on the court on the big stages.

 

[Rippy]

I don't think so. If on-court coaching was such a bad idea, then team events such as Davis cup would be terrible since they have always allowed coaching.

Nope, that's not what the OP is saying. The standard at the events where coaching takes place will of course be high - think of the help they are getting!

It's when you compare it to events where coaching it NOT allowed, a drop in standards is apparant, since the WTA players are so used to the coaching.

 

[TheMusicLover]

Just watching the Cincy final today reminds me how f'ed up on court coaching is. It really makes the women's game look even weaker in comparison to the men's game.

Players should fight their way out of tough situations on their own, and not be able to talk to a coach on changeovers.

Exactly. Tennis is an INDIVIDUAL sport, the players themselves should be as intelligent to acknowledge which part of their game, tactics and such, needs adjustment when it's not working for them.
It is in fact an insult to the players that do manage without the on-court coaching, and YES it does make the WTA look even worse than it already is.

Should this ever become allowed at the ATP as well, I might even stop watching it altogether.

 

[SourStraws]

This is professional lvl...Not High School tennis...On court coaching is a joke

S.S.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

Nope, that's not what the OP is saying. The standard at the events where coaching takes place will of course be high - think of the help they are getting!

It's when you compare it to events where coaching it NOT allowed, a drop in standards is apparant, since the WTA players are so used to the coaching.

Exactly. 10.

 

[Terr]

I agree yeah, but if on court coaching helps them keep good form in a match during WTA tournies then please God let's keep it.

I don't feel that it keeps them in good form.

That biblical proverb springs to mind, 'Give a man a fish...Teach a man to fish...'

The end result is that it's hindering them more than helping them since they might play well usually but they all choke during GS without their coach holding their hand.

 

[anointedone]

Probably. One of the biggest problems for the WTA tour today is the players are so mentally weak. Being allowed to rely on your coach to help you during matches only makes them softer and even less tough than they already are. It does nothing to help them become more steely competitors, and tougher under pressure.

 

[JeMar]

I'm not sure... on-court coaching isn't allowed at the slams and the level of play is about the same as it is in non-slam events, so I don't think it's making a huge difference.

 

[grafselesfan]

If they got some better coaches it might help. One big problem with the current WTA is the lack of decent tactics, court smarts, point construction, or ability to make adjustments. A good coach should be able to make recommendations during a match to their player. The problem is the WTA has been overtaken by a bunch of Bolliteiri clones who know nothing other than to tell their girl to club the forehand even harder until it starts to work for them.

 

[Benefactor]

personally, i think it's ridiculous that some of the tournaments offer on court coaching. having to figure things out yourself is what makes tennis different than any other sport. regardless, they either need to allow it at all tournaments (including grand slams) or don't allow it at any tournaments. it's ridiculous the number of WTA players that look up to their coaches after every point.

i remember an interview with federer several years ago where they asked him why he doesn't look up to his box very often. he responded by saying "what if everyone in his box got sick for a big match; i would then be totally lost"

Not really.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

The recent spate of upsets week 1 of the USO, and Safina's continual struggles in the slams,lend creedence to my theory that on court coaching in regular tour events leaves players mentally handicapped when they're left to figure things out on their own in the slams, without the help of a coach.

 

[drwood]

The recent spate of upsets week 1 of the USO, and Safina's continual struggles in the slams,lend creedence to my theory that on court coaching in regular tour events leaves players mentally handicapped when they're left to figure things out on their own in the slams, without the help of a coach.

I don't see what one has to do with the other.

 

[drwood]

If they got some better coaches it might help. One big problem with the current WTA is the lack of decent tactics, court smarts, point construction, or ability to make adjustments. A good coach should be able to make recommendations during a match to their player. The problem is the WTA has been overtaken by a bunch of Bolliteiri clones who know nothing other than to tell their girl to club the forehand even harder until it starts to work for them.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

The lack of variety in the WTA is shocking, theres no S&V or change or pace with slice and topspin basically everything is just about smacking the crap out of the ball and Serena does that better than anyone.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

I don't see what one has to do with the other.

If a player's used to having the coach there in regular tour events, it's naturally gonna be different when they're left to fend for themselves in tough situations in the slams instead of calling the coach out for comfort.

 

[drwood]

If a player's used to having the coach there in regular tour events, it's naturally gonna be different when they're left to fend for themselves in tough situations in the slams instead of calling the coach out for comfort.

That makes sense, but it doesn't explain why there would be so many upsets early in the tournament...the handicap is the same for all players.

 

[darrinbaker00]

Just watching the Cincy final today reminds me how f'ed up on court coaching is. It really makes the women's game look even weaker in comparison to the men's game.

Players should fight their way out of tough situations on their own, and not be able to talk to a coach on changeovers.

Would you rather they use hand signals from the stands like the men do?

 

[speckles]

Would you rather they use hand signals from the stands like the men do?

Agreed - it makes official what has been unofficially going on from the stands for years.

 

[TennisandMusic]

I actually thought the on court coaching rule was a result of how bad things have gotten, a response to try and improve things.

I think maybe the power game has ruined the womens game. When you can't outbash someone, then what? They aren't taught to play a game of variety from a young age, it's all about hitting big, hitting big.

 

[OrangePower]

Actually I think the overall standard in regular WTA events has also dropped in recent years, despite the coaching change.

So in general I don't think that the standard drop in slams can be attributed to the lack of coaching.

Of course there will be individual examples where maybe that is the case (player's slam level is lower than WTA level), and maybe some of those is due to lack of coaching, but I'm talking overall.

And of course there are also some players that are the opposite - have a higher level in slams than in WTA.

I think the coaching rule is a wash and personally I don't care one way or the other whether it's allowed and at what events. I don't think it's going to have a significant impact on overall level of play (across all players) either way.

 

[lambielspins]

I dont think it makes much difference either way.