Has recreational tennis ever changed?/no such thing as ''modern recreational tennis''

DonDiego

Hall of Fame
Just a random (and probably pointless) thought...

We often hear about ''modern tennis'', or how tennis has changed, how serve and volley is disappearing, how fitness is now so important, how everyone is suddenly a baseline basher, etc.

And of course, all this translates into the new rackets that... rec players buy and use.

But I remember playing tennis at the park 25 years ago, and it was all baseline bashing. S&V? Are you kidding me? Maybe former top juniors can testify in a different way, but as a lifetime rec player, to me tennis hasn't changed one bit. Even the good players that were around us, the ones that would go to tourneys, they played a baseline game. Big serve, big forehand was what you bragged about, just like today.

I also remember that I learned my tennis by watching the pros on tv. And although there were some guys like Pat Cash, Becker, Edberg in my younger years, it never crossed my mind to try to volley. I could spend a whole summer, playing every day, without going to the net. And if it ever happened, it was like ''holy ****! How did I end up here? What am I supposed to do? Hit out, just hit it out!! Got to get the hell out of here!''

I guess my point is: I understand that professional tennis has changed a lot, but recreational tennis hasn't changed one bit in 25 years in my opinion. Yet a lot the products that are sold to us (racket, strings, technique) is marketed with the idea that we would need this for ''modern'' tennis. Heck, us week-end warriors have been playing (very bad) modern tennis for ages...
 
I'm too young to know what rec players played like 25 years ago, but I know middle aged people who used to play college/pro tennis, and their games have a more classic feel. They hit flatter, mainly have one handed backhands, and play more of an all court style.
 

DonDiego

Hall of Fame
yeah, I know what you mean. Guys with one-hand backhand with conti grip...

That would be older than my time. But still, I feel like this ''modern tennis'' buzzword is rather recent, yet I'm 40 and when I was 15 it was already all about topspin and baseline rallies. Seems like some people would like us to believe that modern tennis was introduced by Federer and Nadal, while Agassi was already a star in 1986.
 
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Jim Lefty

Rookie
I can see how modern techniques have made their way down the to rec level. It's mainly with the youngsters.

Heavy topspin is the norm. Two-handers are much more prevalent. Older rec players tend to have a more "traditional" approach to the game.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
I do agree, we have been playing very bad tennis for ages....... but....
My good playing days were the late '70's. Every decent A/Open or aspiring player played S/V tennis, talking men's tennis.
Yes, some pusher baseline B players existed, and thrived, in cheating B or 4.5 levels, guys who had played tennis for 10-20 years, and never got better.
My practice partner's of CCSF, No. 1 and 2, were both S/V players, although No.1 was a soft angle player, while No.2 was a hammerhead.
My practice partners of MissionHigh 1 and 2, were both S/V players.
" No.1 for Lowell High was a S/V player.
I will admit, No. 1 for Washington High was a baseliner, but SHE did win a couple of WTA tourneys by the time she turned 20.
So, maybe 25 years ago they played a lot of baseline tennis, but no decent A/Open player of the late '70's did. From NickSaviano to PeterPearson, GregShepard to RockyMcQuire, Dan Hepner to ArtLarsen (well those two were over the hill by the time I won a C tourney to play A's), Dan and Chuck Bleckinger to WendellPierce, ALL PLAYED S/V.
 

TennisLogic

Semi-Pro
Just a random (and probably pointless) thought...

We often hear about ''modern tennis'', or how tennis has changed, how serve and volley is disappearing, how fitness is now so important, how everyone is suddenly a baseline basher, etc.

And of course, all this translates into the new rackets that... rec players buy and use.

But I remember playing tennis at the park 25 years ago, and it was all baseline bashing. S&V? Are you kidding me? Maybe former top juniors can testify in a different way, but as a lifetime rec player, to me tennis hasn't changed one bit. Even the good players that were around us, the ones that would go to tourneys, they played a baseline game. Big serve, big forehand was what you bragged about, just like today.

I also remember that I learned my tennis by watching the pros on tv. And although there were some guys like Pat Cash, Becker, Edberg in my younger years, it never crossed my mind to try to volley. I could spend a whole summer, playing every day, without going to the net. And if it ever happened, it was like ''holy ****! How did I end up here? What am I supposed to do? Hit out, just hit it out!! Got to get the hell out of here!''

I guess my point is: I understand that professional tennis has changed a lot, but recreational tennis hasn't changed one bit in 25 years in my opinion. Yet a lot the products that are sold to us (racket, strings, technique) is marketed with the idea that we would need this for ''modern'' tennis. Heck, us week-end warriors have been playing (very bad) modern tennis for ages...

Recreational tennis will never change. it is still all about who's going to make the unforced errors.
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
Just a random (and probably pointless) thought...

We often hear about ''modern tennis'', or how tennis has changed, how serve and volley is disappearing, how fitness is now so important, how everyone is suddenly a baseline basher, etc.
...

I think technique wise, we have seen more movement in rec than Pro, and the same for overall instruction. Pro technique has always had a lot of modern in it and that is what Oscar noticed in how the instruction didn't match up. That is what is modern about technique...teaching form of the pros instead of the old classic style of before.

As to the game style of modern, Rec has followed pro game pretty much with everyone playing mainly baseline based games and going for big first serves if the can. In the 70's, there was way more S&V in Pro and rec.
 

goran_ace

Hall of Fame
I know middle aged people who used to play college/pro tennis

I have an issue with definitions here. Is that really 'rec tennis'? Just because you don't get a paycheck doesn't mean it's rec. It's not just pro vs rec; rec does not equal amateur. To me, rec means unsanctioned play. You play league, whether that's 3.5 or 4.5 that's all competitive play. No former college or pro player plays 'rec' level. 4.5+ is high level competitive play.

That said, the so-called 'modern' technique has been around long enough where you do see a lot of guys who play semi-western to full western grips and play tweeners with poly. The modern game is not that modern.
 
I have an ise sue with definitions here. Is that really 'rec tennis'? Just because you don't get a paycheck doesn't mean it's rec. It's not just pro vs rec; rec does not equal amateur. To me, rec means unsanctioned play. You play league, whether that's 3.5 or 4.5 that's all competitive play. No former college or pro player plays 'rec' level. 4.5+ is high level competitive play.

That said, the so-called 'modern' technique has been around long enough where you do see a lot of guys who play semi-western to full western grips and play tweeners with poly. The modern game is not that modern.

I agree. This is why I included the qualifier that I wasn't around to see rec tennis 25 years ago. I'm just commenting on what I see now.
 
depends on what you mean with rec Players. there are a lot of rec Players who played somewhat competitively as a kid and those guys will have modern strokes.

and then there are hacks who just bunt the ball back over the net.
 

GuyClinch

Legend
Damn OP is some kinda Debbie downer eh?

First its useless to work on your technique - and then the game hasn't changed..

So the game is the same and you can't get better... What's next - we are always going to have wars and death? Mankind will never travel to other stars? Ice Cream will always make you fat..
 

colowhisper

Semi-Pro
I have an issue with definitions here. Is that really 'rec tennis'? Just because you don't get a paycheck doesn't mean it's rec. It's not just pro vs rec; rec does not equal amateur. To me, rec means unsanctioned play. You play league, whether that's 3.5 or 4.5 that's all competitive play. No former college or pro player plays 'rec' level. 4.5+ is high level competitive play.

That said, the so-called 'modern' technique has been around long enough where you do see a lot of guys who play semi-western to full western grips and play tweeners with poly. The modern game is not that modern.

Yep, I agree too, and interesting observation about the racquet choices. I notice 4.5 level under 40 years old is mostly tweener with poly, 4.5 level over 40 mostly still traditional players sticks with gut or multi.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
For Joe Dali's eyes only.....
Rocky was a top 3 NorCal A/Open in the later '70's. I lost to him twice in 2nd and 3rd rounds of A tournaments, no bagels, no breadsticks. He was 6'2" and easy 190 lbs.
Pea OTOH, was a 5'5" girl, around 117 lbs., Open womens, maybe 4.5 mens in those years.
So, you are correct, Rock would crush a Pea.
 

TennisCJC

Legend
I'm too young to know what rec players played like 25 years ago, but I know middle aged people who used to play college/pro tennis, and their games have a more classic feel. They hit flatter, mainly have one handed backhands, and play more of an all court style.

Yep, I am in my late 50s and am little different from most "middle aged people" in that I have a E/SW FH grip with a WW finish, hit medium+ top and a 2HBH. But, I hit with a lot of over 50 guys with E and conti FH grips that hit most flat and they come in to net much more than younger guys. When I was playing in the internet singles leagues, it was not to common to see someone under 40 that came to net a lot. I remember one really tall guy in probably his early 30s who came in but he was so tall he was difficult to pass or lob. But, the other younger guys stayed back predominately.

Believe it or not, I know 2 or 3 old guys who are actually better at the net than at the baseline. I don't think I have seen any young guys other than the one tall guy I mentioned above under 40 that is better at the net than the baseline.

You also see a lot more topspin and WW finishes in the under 40 group. Some of the older guys have added it to there game but a lot of the older guys are still using conti and E grips with a flatter more linear stroke.

For me, tennis at the 3.5 to 4.5 level has changed but not as drastically as the pros.
 
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LeeD

Bionic Poster
Hey, I"m an old fart who hit's better volleys than groundies, often volley stroke my service returns, and totally get frustrated running back and forth along the baseline.
 

JoelDali

Talk Tennis Guru
Hey, I"m an old fart.


twins1.jpg
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
JoeDali....
Today I got to hit and play some points with President, aka Josh, who's like 21 years old.
Talking singles.
That's like TWO generations apart.
And then some guy from the backcourt comes to the fence and says "Are you Lee from the SunsetDistrict in SanFrancisco? I say yeah, and he remembered me teaching him tennis back in the mid 70's, and I encouraged him to join in the GoldenGatePark tourney, junior division. He didn't, was too shy. That tourney, my first, I lost in finals of the C, or now 3.5, in 1977. Won the OaklandCity in C's the following tourney.
 

JoelDali

Talk Tennis Guru
You have reached the pinnacle of rec tennis immortality both in real life and online.

Braveheart level respect for your legendary tennis knowledge GOATjuice.

MENS45-DISTRICT-CHAMPS.jpg
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Just reporting what happenned today.
Josh, President, was there at the opposing end and heard the whole thing.
Sorry.
 

shindemac

Hall of Fame
I'd say the biggest difference in even the last 5 years is the rise in usage of words like "rec player" or "rec tennis". It's simple, concise, and describes most of us pretty well. Better than "weekend warrior", amateur, "tennis hack", etc.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
I'd say the biggest difference in even the last 5 years is the rise in usage of words like "rec player" or "rec tennis". It's simple, concise, and describes most of us pretty well. Better than "weekend warrior", amateur, "tennis hack", etc.

+1. I wasn't aware, but I've been using the term extensively in the past few years. :) Let's continue to spread it!!! :)
 

Maximagq

Banned
Recreational Tennis has changed.

It's not about finesse, or strategies.
It's not even about nuance, variety, or point construction.

It's an endless series of baseline bashing,
fought by grinders and machines.

Recreational Tennis, and its rich history of leisure and upperclass past time,
has become a rational, well-oiled athletic war zone.

Recreational Tennis has changed.

Recreational Tennis players carry graphite rackets,
use poly strings.

Microfibers inside their compositions
enhance and regulate their spin and power.

Spin control.. racket head control..
speed control.. ball control.

Everything is monitored, and kept under control.

Recreational Tennis has changed.

The age of serve and volley is now the age of consistency,
averting errors due to massive topspin.

And he who controls the graphite rackets, controls history.

Recreational Tennis has changed.

When the recreational tennis racket is under total control,

Recreational Tennis becomes routine.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Nah, you guys just never saw very many recreational tennis players in the past, since you're just newbie humans.
Plenty of Okker/Kriek clones back in the '70's, guys who hit the ball as hard as they can with topspin, and they used 1hbh's.
Courier is another prime idol, where tons of bad rec player's tried to copy his ground pound style, since they couldn't stand the sight of Connors/McEnroe and those stunted strokes....
 

Maximagq

Banned
Nah, you guys just never saw very many recreational tennis players in the past, since you're just newbie humans.
Plenty of Okker/Kriek clones back in the '70's, guys who hit the ball as hard as they can with topspin, and they used 1hbh's.
Courier is another prime idol, where tons of bad rec player's tried to copy his ground pound style, since they couldn't stand the sight of Connors/McEnroe and those stunted strokes....

Lee you didn't understand my reference. Youtube "War has changed Metal Gear Solid 4"
 

UCSF2012

Hall of Fame
More puny guys are serving bombs. Tiny little girls in high school are bashing the balls. The inside out forehand is easier to execute. Extreme spin is easier to generate (but if you don't know how to spin a ball, you end up buying an S racket.)

The 4.0+ players are stronger. The 3.5 and below are about the same,
 
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