Have access to a ball machine for a month. 3.0 player. Need some basic tips.

[fuzzybabybunny]

I've been playing since I was 15 (I'm 31 now) but because I never had formal lessons nor any innate talent I've never been able to progress past a solid 3.0, which is frustrating, because I really enjoy tennis. All my past "lessons" have been drills by so-called coaches, but they never ever told me how I'm supposed to hit, aim, what grip to use, etc. Just "hit the ball here, there, etc" and because they're drills you never actually get more than three similar balls in a row.

Well, now I've paid for a membership at a club and can rent out the ball machine. I've practiced for two days on it and combined with some YouTube vids I've already seen improvement on my stroke and aiming ability.

I'm 5'5" and a righty. I figure that my height should affect the way I play or even swing, right?

Over the years I've been using a semi-western or full-western grip. My shots are always loopy and high, but they still land in the majority of the time right around the baseline. But I'd like to bring the shot height down and produce more forward speed and drive, so I'm currently working on driving forward more than my usual low to high.

I'm confused on a number of things for now (more to come in the future):

- I've never learned how to aim. Most of my shots, no matter where I am on the court, land back almost dead-center. I suspect that this is because, after 15 years, I've become so accustomed to timing my strike at the same exact moment, and since aim can be caused by varying your timing... it's no wonder that if my timing is always the same, the ball will always go to the same spot? Does this make sense? Also, if I try to go for passing shots, even if my mental intention is to not hit the middle of the court, the ball still goes to the middle usually. There has often been times when I intend to hit, say, right, but the shot goes left. The intention is there, but it's not being translated into the correct action.

There seems to be two ways to aim - timing and feet position. I'm working on timing with an open stance but man, it's tricky. It requires a really really conscious effort to time the strike, and if I want to hit forehands to the left I feel like I have to make contact *really* early. If I want to hit to the right I feel like I have to hit *really* late - in fact, it feels like the ball has already flown past my body by the time I hit it and often times I feel jammed up. What's going on?

- Should I also be changing my follow through? If I want to hit to the right, should I be extending my arm towards the right on follow through? If I want to hit down the line, should I extend my arm down the line on follow through? I've heard that it's actually not necessary, that aim can be accomplished entirely through timing. If I have three exact same swings and three exact same follow throughs, the ball will go in three different directions if the timing is different each time.

- What should my eyes be looking at when I'm about to hit a shot? Should it be complete tunnel vision on the ball while keeping the head still on contact? Or should I open up my peripheral vision and try to visually line up the ball with my intended target on court?

- Should I ever be aiming for lines? Or should I simply be aiming for general areas on the court?

- Wrist movement screws everything up for me. If I try to whip my wrist the results are completely unpredictable because the wrist, as a joint, has so many different angles that it can move, which means it can be a huge source of error. I can have the same stroke starting from my feet to my waist to my shoulder, but a slight variance in the angle of the wrist at the end can completely change the shot, like send it sailing or drilling into the ground.

How do you keep your wrist angle consistent and predictable if you're supposed to whip it and/or keep it semi-relaxed at the same time?

- What else should I do now that I have the ball machine?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I'd suggest the SW over the full Western grip. More versatile. Might be easier for you to drive thru the ball. I would not focus too much on the follow-thru. It should be a byproduct of what happens before and during contact. Shortly after your forward swing starts, focus on your expected contact point rather than the ball (which will usually become "invisible" anyway). Important to keep your head still during this phase (and for a short time after contact). Players who look up to follow the ball coming off their strings will often start start moving the head before and during contact. Keep the eyes fixed and head still for a while. No need to see the outgoing ball before it crosses the net.

Set the ball machine to medium slow speed for a while. Too many players set the ball speed too fast or the feed interval too short and end up reinforcing old or bad habits.

Right-handed? If so, line yourself up for FHs toward the right side (corner). This will make it easier to hit in that direction or any other direction. Likewise, line yourself up for BHs toward the left side. It's just a matter of contacting the ball slightly more in front of you (that is, toward the net) to his the crosscourt shot. Try to visualize your target area. Do this for one particular placement until your subconscious mind figures out how to get the ball to that area consistently. Then pick the other direction and work on that for a while.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I'd suggest the SW over the full Western grip. More versatile. Might be easier for you to drive thru the ball. I would not focus too much on the follow-thru. It should be a byproduct of what happens before and during contact. Shortly after your forward swing starts, focus on your expected contact point rather than the ball (which will usually become "invisible" anyway). Important to keep your head still during this phase (and for a short time after contact). Players who look up to follow the ball coming off their strings will often start start moving the head before and during contact. Keep the eyes fixed and head still for a while. No need to see the outgoing ball before it crosses the net.

Set the ball machine to medium slow speed for a while. Too many players set the ball speed too fast or the feed interval too short and end up reinforcing old or bad habits.

Right-handed? If so, line yourself up for FHs toward the right side (corner). This will make it easier to hit in that direction or any other direction. Likewise, line yourself up for BHs toward the left side. It's just a matter of contacting the ball slightly more in front of you (that is, toward the net) to his the crosscourt shot. Try to visualize your target area. Do this for one particular placement until your subconscious mind figures out how to get the ball to that area consistently. Then pick the other direction and work on that for a while.

Thanks! The tip on setting the feed speed and rate is especially useful - I was on the fence on what to set it at because I could see pros and cons to both slow or fast and couldn't decide.

When you mention contact point, do you mean like an area of 3-dimensional space around me where my racket is expected to meet the ball? Like for example, if I'm right handed and want to send the ball to the right, the contact point I need to focus on is an area along the same horizontal plane as my chest, the distance from my shoulder to the racket head? And if I want to send it to the left, the contact point is like two feet in front of my body, and again the distance from my shoulder to the racket head?

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I made this in the Tennis Elbow video game. Should I be visualising my strike zones like this?

Purple for to the right, red for center, and orange for left?

 

[Curious]

Put a camera behind you and watch the session once a week or so. It prevents you from getting delusional as to how awesome you hit the ball.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Thanks! The tip on setting the feed speed and rate is especially useful - I was on the fence on what to set it at because I could see pros and cons to both slow or fast and couldn't decide.

When you mention contact point, do you mean like an area of 3-dimensional space around me where my racket is expected to meet the ball? Like for example, if I'm right handed and want to send the ball to the right, the contact point I need to focus on is an area along the same horizontal plane as my chest, the distance from my shoulder to the racket head? And if I want to send it to the left, the contact point is like two feet in front of my body, and again the distance from my shoulder to the racket head?

I generally thing of the contact point or zone more in 2D rather than in 3D. I am concerned foremost with the proper height and spacing relative to the incoming ball. That point or plane will usually be more or less even with my front foot and not my mid-line. Some players, like Federer, might have their contact zone a bit forward (toward the net) of the front foot. For a 1-handed topspin BH, this contact zone will be more forward than this.

For me, it doesn't matter whether I'm hitting with a semi-open stance or with neutral stance, my contact point is generally even with my front foot in order to get the proper rotation of my body into the ball at contact. Of course there will be a 3rd dimensional aspect to the contact but the difference between hitting left and right is usually a fairly small angle -- perhaps 20 degrees or so. So I am thinking that my contact point for hitting left or right is a difference of inches rather than feet.

For placing the ball to the left, center or right, I visualizing the desired bounce location rather than how it changes my contact zone. Does that make sense? To make good contact, I visualize and then fixate on the expected contact point or area. To get the ball to go in a certain direction, I visualize the outcome instead.

The most important part is to keep the head/eyes quiet during the contact phase (before, during and after contact).

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

To make good contact, I visualize and then fixate on the expected contact point or area. To get the ball to go in a certain direction, I visualize the outcome instead.

Hmmmm...

So to make good contact, you fixate on the expected contact point. So let's say that the ball is travelling towards you, but hasn't reached you yet. You mentally extrapolate the flight path of the ball and then visually fixate on where you *estimate* the ball and the racket to meet. What you're visually fixated on at this point is empty space, because the ball and racket haven't reached that area yet. For me, when I go for a swing, I stare at and try to swing at the ball. What you're saying is that I should stare at and swing at the empty space where I think the ball will be by the time it reaches my racket?

And to get the ball in a certain direction, you visualize where the ball will bounce when it lands on your opponent's side?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Hmmmm...

So to make good contact, you fixate on the expected contact point. So let's say that the ball is travelling towards you, but hasn't reached you yet. You mentally extrapolate the flight path of the ball and then visually fixate on where you *estimate* the ball and the racket to meet. What you're visually fixated on at this point is empty space, because the ball and racket haven't reached that area yet. For me, when I go for a swing, I stare at and try to swing at the ball. What you're saying is that I should stare at and swing at the empty space where I think the ball will be by the time it reaches my racket?

And to get the ball in a certain direction, you visualize where the ball will bounce when it lands on your opponent's side?

Affirmative response to your last question.

Yes, I am essentially staring at empty space shortly before the ball gets there. Most of the time, it is impossible to track the ball all the way into the strings. When the ball get very close to us (a meter or so), it traverses our field of vision too rapidly for our smooth pursuit tracking system to keep up and see the ball. It effectively becomes "invisible". Instead of trying to follow a ball that we can no longer see, it is best to stop moving the eyes/head shortly before contact and keep the "quiet" during the contact phase.

In the video below it appears that Roger's eyes are no longer looking at the ball at the 0:16 mark. At 0:17 his head is not moving at all and his eyes have gotten to the contact point before that ball gets there. Contact at the 0:18 mark.

Also notice how long he keeps his head still, eyes on CP after the ball has left his strings. Keeping the head still before and after contact helps us to keep the swing on the right path. If we attempt to follow the ball too soon after contact, there is a good chance that we will actually lift the eyes & head even before contact. The can alter the swingpath and cause us to hit so low in the stringbed that the ball hits the frame.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Affirmative response to your last question.

Oh man this is seriously blowing my mind right now.

This all seems so tricky. I'm basically staring at empty space, and timing my racquet head to meet a ball (which could be travelling at various different speeds) outside my vision so that both eventually meet at this empty space. And before I strike I'm controlling the direction of my shot by visualising where the ball will bounce on the other side of the court, long after I've made the strike, all while staring into the empty space in front of me.

 

[Curious]

Oh man this is seriously blowing my mind right now.

This all seems so tricky. I'm basically starting at empty space, and timing my racquet head to meet a ball (which could be travelling at various different speeds) outside my vision so that both eventually meet at this empty space. And before I strike I'm controlling the direction of my shot by visualising where the ball will bounce on the other side of the court, long after I've made the strike, all while staring into the empty space in front of me.

It feels so good to do that but it's such a stubborn habit to break and not turn your head and look where the ball is going. It's been a huge struggle for me.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

It feels so good to do that but it's such a stubborn habit to break and not turn your head and look where the ball is going. It's been a huge struggle for me.

Yeah, I've worked on keeping the head still in the past as well. It's so natural for me to look immediately after I've hit. It's like a reflex.

When I'm consciously trying to keep my head still I often find that I jerk my head *back* with my efforts. Instead of turning my head towards my opponent after the strike, in my effort to not do this I just end up turning my head in the opposite direction at the moment of impact, both of which still lead to the same thing - a head that's not still.

 

[Curious]

Yeah, I've worked on keeping the head still in the past as well. It's so natural for me to look immediately after I've hit. It's like a reflex.

When I'm consciously trying to keep my head still I often find that I jerk my head *back* with my efforts. Instead of turning my head towards my opponent after the strike, in my effort to not do this I just end up turning my head in the opposite direction at the moment of impact, both of which still lead to the same thing - a head that's not still.

No worries. It looks like it's not that common even in the pro circle anyway. How many apart from Federer and Dimitrov?

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Ok, I have another question, but on the forehand.

When I take my racquet back, I should have wrist extension at this moment.
I then drive the rotation with my hip followed with my arm. At the point of contact, should my wrist still be in a little bit of extension, but in the process of moving from extension to flexion?

After the ball has left my strings and during my follow through is when my wrist should be fully transitioned into flexion, right?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Ok, I have another question, but on the forehand.

When I take my racquet back, I should have wrist extension at this moment.
I then drive the rotation with my hip followed with my arm. At the point of contact, should my wrist still be in a little bit of extension, but in the process of moving from extension to flexion?

After the ball has left my strings and during my follow through is when my wrist should be fully transitioned into flexion, right?

Take another close look at Federer. His wrist is pretty much neutral on his takeback. In the previous clip, you should notice that it still neutral as his racquet drops. His wrist extension happens at the start of his forward swing. The act of rotating (uncoiling) the hip & torso and pulling the butt of the racquet forward allows his wrist to lay back (extension). The racquet head lag that you see at the start of his forward swing is responsible for his significant wrist extension.

Contrast this some WTA and many non-elite players. Many of these players appear to actively flip the wrist back prior during the takeback (prior to the forward swing). I am not a fan of this technique at all. Better to let the wrist extension happen rather than force it to happen.

The wrist does not need to assume a flexed position at all. (Or it should flex VERY slightly). It will likely assume a neutral position some time after contact but it does not need to go past neutral into flexed position. We should be careful with terms like flexion (and extension). It can refer to a position (wrist bent forward) or it can refer to an action. For the latter, we can call the action of moving the hand/wrist from an extended position to a neutral position as a flexion (movement).

At contact, it appears that Roger's wrist is still laid back somewhat -- not quite as much as it was earlier in his forward swing. Some players might be closer to neutral at contact. Once you have let your wrist lay back at the start of your forward swing, I would not really concern yourself too much with what the wrist is doing later. As long as your wrist never assume an strong flexion (position), don't give it a 2nd thought.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

No worries. It looks like it's not that common even in the pro circle anyway. How many apart from Federer and Dimitrov?

Not exactly. Not all pros take it to the same extreme that Roger does on his follow-thru but you should find that nearly all will keep the head still before and during the contact phase. They generally will not look up right after contact either -- even tho' they might not keep the head still quite as long as Roger does.

Rafa's gaze technique is very similar to Roger's. I believe that he copied this gaze strategy early in his career. Roger and Rafa arguably have 2 of the best FHs of all time. Many other pros and elite junior and collegiate player have adopted this gaze strategy. Let's take a look at the head & eyes of Sharapova and Kyrgios as examples.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ss5BTXLCvI&t=63
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS5cZuxsjPE

There are also players who do not fix their gaze directly on the CP. Andre Agassi fixes his gaze slightly forward of the CP. I believe that Murray does something similar. They turn the head less for the incoming ball. Andy appears to stop watching (tracking) the incoming ball earlier than Roger and Rafa do. He may be using his peripheral vision to track the ball when it gets very close to him. Andy and Andre keep the head still before/during the contact phase and for a short time afterward even tho they fix their gaze forward of the CP.

 

[Curious]

At contact, it appears that Roger's wrist is still laid back somewhat -- not quite as much as it was earlier in his forward swing. Some players might b

Not exactly. Not all pros take it to the same extreme that Roger does on his follow-thru but you should find that nearly all will keep the head still before and during the contact phase. They generally will not look up right after contact either -- even tho' they might not keep the head still quite as long as Roger does.

Rafa's gaze technique is very similar to Roger's. I believe that he copied this gaze strategy early in his career. Roger and Rafa arguably have 2 of the best FHs of all time. Many other pros and elite junior and collegiate player have adopted this gaze strategy. Let's take a look at the head & eyes of Sharapova and Kyrgios as examples.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ss5BTXLCvI&t=63
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS5cZuxsjPE

There are also players who do not fix their gaze directly on the CP. Andre Agassi fixes his gaze slightly forward of the CP. I believe that Murray does something similar. They turn the head less for the incoming ball. Andy appears to stop watching (tracking) the incoming ball earlier than Roger and Rafa do. He may be using his peripheral vision to track the ball when it gets very close to him. Andy and Andre keep the head still before/during the contact phase and for a short time afterward even tho they fix their gaze forward of the CP.

I wonder if Federer does it extremely or others don't do it properly. Also Kyrgios doesn't seem to be a good example, at least in that video in my view.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

^ For the gaze technique, Maria is closer to Roger (and Rafa, Grigor, etc) than Nick. Nick doesn't turn his head quite as much to fix his gaze on the CP point. He might move his eyes a bit more (relative to his head) to compensate. Or he might be using his peripheral vision a bit more. He does keep his head still during/after contact.

Andre was one of the best ball strikers of all time. He hit the ball very cleanly (but did not hit his FH with quite as much tospin as Roger does). His gaze was a bit forward of his CP point (did not turn his head as much to fix his gaze). He did keep his head still but not quite as long (to the extreme) that Roger does.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Take another close look at Federer. His wrist is pretty much neutral on his takeback. In the previous clip, you should notice that it still neutral as his racquet drops. His wrist extension happens at the start of his forward swing. The act of rotating (uncoiling) the hip & torso and pulling the butt of the racquet forward allows his wrist to lay back (extension). The racquet head lag that you see at the start of his forward swing is responsible for his significant wrist extension.

Contrast this some WTA and many non-elite players. Many of these players appear to actively flip the wrist back prior during the takeback (prior to the forward swing). I am not a fan of this technique at all. Better to let the wrist extension happen rather than force it to happen.

The wrist does not need to assume a flexed position at all. (Or it should flex VERY slightly). It will likely assume a neutral position some time after contact but it does not need to go past neutral into flexed position. We should be careful with terms like flexion (and extension). It can refer to a position (wrist bent forward) or it can refer to an action. For the latter, we can call the action of moving the hand/wrist from an extended position to a neutral position as a flexion (movement).

At contact, it appears that Roger's wrist is still laid back somewhat -- not quite as much as it was earlier in his forward swing. Some players might be closer to neutral at contact. Once you have let your wrist lay back at the start of your forward swing, I would not really concern yourself too much with what the wrist is doing later. As long as your wrist never assume an strong flexion (position), don't give it a 2nd thought.

Is this guy incorrect then?

http://lockandrolltennis.com/forehand/

"Wrist is fully cocked back, ready to snap through the ball;"

"Hitting arm is extended through contact." - I know that this doesn't mention the wrist, but in his photos it appears as though the wrist starts cocked back (extension) and at contact it is neutral and during the follow through it is in flexion. So I have to assume that during the entire swing path his wrist is also moving from full extension to full flexion.

IMO, this wrist movement would create a lot of problems. The direction the ball goes is directly related to the angle the strings are facing at the moment of impact, and there's no easier way to change that angle by mistake or randomness than by introducing movement into the wrist during the swing.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Is this guy incorrect then?

http://lockandrolltennis.com/forehand/

"Wrist is fully cocked back, ready to snap through the ball;"

"Hitting arm is extended through contact." - I know that this doesn't mention the wrist, but in his photos it appears as though the wrist starts cocked back (extension) and at contact it is neutral and during the follow through it is in flexion. So I have to assume that during the entire swing path his wrist is also moving from full extension to full flexion.

IMO, this wrist movement would create a lot of problems. The direction the ball goes is directly related to the angle the strings are facing at the moment of impact, and there's no easier way to change that angle by mistake or randomness than by introducing movement into the wrist during the swing.

Tae Byon hits very well and does provide some excellent insight but I would take a phrase like "snap through the ball" with a grain of salt. There is some moderate wrist action to be sure. But "snap" will often lead many to believe that wrist ends up significantly flexed (or even fully flexed) after contact. The exaggerated wrist action that many see is actually forearm rotation. Tae ends up with some minor flexion on his follow-thru -- nothing close to full flexion. Stop his video at 0:52 (late in his follow-thru). His wrist is very close to neutral at that point. You may see some minor flexion with some elite players and no flexion with others.

Note that full flexion would be 80-90 degrees (mine is abt 80 degrees):

 

[Todd Hicks]

I've been playing since I was 15 (I'm 31 now) but because I never had formal lessons nor any innate talent I've never been able to progress past a solid 3.0, which is frustrating, because I really enjoy tennis. All my past "lessons" have been drills by so-called coaches, but they never ever told me how I'm supposed to hit, aim, what grip to use, etc. Just "hit the ball here, there, etc" and because they're drills you never actually get more than three similar balls in a row.

Well, now I've paid for a membership at a club and can rent out the ball machine. I've practiced for two days on it and combined with some YouTube vids I've already seen improvement on my stroke and aiming ability.

I'm 5'5" and a righty. I figure that my height should affect the way I play or even swing, right?

Over the years I've been using a semi-western or full-western grip. My shots are always loopy and high, but they still land in the majority of the time right around the baseline. But I'd like to bring the shot height down and produce more forward speed and drive, so I'm currently working on driving forward more than my usual low to high.

I'm confused on a number of things for now (more to come in the future):

- I've never learned how to aim. Most of my shots, no matter where I am on the court, land back almost dead-center. I suspect that this is because, after 15 years, I've become so accustomed to timing my strike at the same exact moment, and since aim can be caused by varying your timing... it's no wonder that if my timing is always the same, the ball will always go to the same spot? Does this make sense? Also, if I try to go for passing shots, even if my mental intention is to not hit the middle of the court, the ball still goes to the middle usually. There has often been times when I intend to hit, say, right, but the shot goes left. The intention is there, but it's not being translated into the correct action.

There seems to be two ways to aim - timing and feet position. I'm working on timing with an open stance but man, it's tricky. It requires a really really conscious effort to time the strike, and if I want to hit forehands to the left I feel like I have to make contact *really* early. If I want to hit to the right I feel like I have to hit *really* late - in fact, it feels like the ball has already flown past my body by the time I hit it and often times I feel jammed up. What's going on?

- Should I also be changing my follow through? If I want to hit to the right, should I be extending my arm towards the right on follow through? If I want to hit down the line, should I extend my arm down the line on follow through? I've heard that it's actually not necessary, that aim can be accomplished entirely through timing. If I have three exact same swings and three exact same follow throughs, the ball will go in three different directions if the timing is different each time.

- What should my eyes be looking at when I'm about to hit a shot? Should it be complete tunnel vision on the ball while keeping the head still on contact? Or should I open up my peripheral vision and try to visually line up the ball with my intended target on court?

- Should I ever be aiming for lines? Or should I simply be aiming for general areas on the court?

- Wrist movement screws everything up for me. If I try to whip my wrist the results are completely unpredictable because the wrist, as a joint, has so many different angles that it can move, which means it can be a huge source of error. I can have the same stroke starting from my feet to my waist to my shoulder, but a slight variance in the angle of the wrist at the end can completely change the shot, like send it sailing or drilling into the ground.

How do you keep your wrist angle consistent and predictable if you're supposed to whip it and/or keep it semi-relaxed at the same time?

- What else should I do now that I have the ball machine?

Go for shots down the center and down the line. You can try going down the line simply by putting an underhand inside-out stroke on the ball. Keep your head level while looking at the ball.

 

[rchjr2091]

Affirmative response to your last question.

Yes, I am essentially staring at empty space shortly before the ball gets there. Most of the time, it is impossible to track the ball all the way into the strings. When the ball get very close to us (a meter or so), it traverses our field of vision too rapidly for our smooth pursuit tracking system to keep up and see the ball. It effectively becomes "invisible". Instead of trying to follow a ball that we can no longer see, it is best to stop moving the eyes/head shortly before contact and keep the "quiet" during the contact phase.

In the video below it appears that Roger's eyes are no longer looking at the ball at the 0:16 mark. At 0:17 his head is not moving at all and his eyes have gotten to the contact point before that ball gets there. Contact at the 0:18 mark.

Also notice how long he keeps his head still, eyes on CP after the ball has left his strings. Keeping the head still before and after contact helps us to keep the swing on the right path. If we attempt to follow the ball too soon after contact, there is a good chance that we will actually lift the eyes & head even before contact. The can alter the swingpath and cause us to hit so low in the stringbed that the ball hits the frame.

In the beginning I went out and bought a ball machine. I was so obsessed with learning a good topspin forehand, every shot for over a year I was popping my head up immediately at contact looking for " was it a good shot?"
I mean days of nothing but forehands and looking up...needless to say I have developed a horrible habit of raising my head up ...now me and my coach are trying to have faith in my shots and keep me eyes on contact.
Good luck and don't make the same mistake I did.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

In the beginning I went out and bought a ball machine. I was so obsessed with learning a good topspin forehand, every shot for over a year I was popping my head up immediately at contact looking for " was it a good shot?"
I mean days of nothing but forehands and looking up...needless to say I have developed a horrible habit of raising my head up ...now me and my coach are trying to have faith in my shots and keep me eyes on contact.
Good luck and don't make the same mistake I did.

i'm in the same boat... trying to break this stupid habit!

 

[rchjr2091]

i'm in the same boat... trying to break this stupid habit!

But coach I want to see where the ball went !! lol

 

[Deleted member 23235]

But coach I want to see where the ball went !! lol

maybe hanging onto a star wars dream for me.... if i watch where the ball is in flight, i can use the force to guide it in...

 

[heninfan99]

I would rent it out to others for $$$

 

[ByeByePoly]

i'm in the same boat... trying to break this stupid habit!

I learned to look up to check my old doubles league line calls ... brutal.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I learned to look up to check my old doubles league line calls ... brutal.

i gave up on line calls.. i just presume any ball i hit on the line is gonna be called out.

 

[TnsGuru]

If your machine oscillates then use it this way. Having balls fed to the same spot will groove the stroke but not your footwork. Also video yourself and see how you look while hitting and fix it now before it becomes an ingrained habit.

 

[chikoo]

Not exactly. Not all pros take it to the same extreme that Roger does on his follow-thru but you should find that nearly all will keep the head still before and during the contact phase. They generally will not look up right after contact either -- even tho' they might not keep the head still quite as long as Roger does.

Rafa's gaze technique is very similar to Roger's. I believe that he copied this gaze strategy early in his career. Roger and Rafa arguably have 2 of the best FHs of all time. Many other pros and elite junior and collegiate player have adopted this gaze strategy. Let's take a look at the head & eyes of Sharapova and Kyrgios as examples.

I do not naturally follow the ball to the CP like Fed, but every time I have tried following the ball all the way to the CP, the resulting FH has been spectacular by my own standards.I only wish I had the focus & concentration to keep doing that.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I do not naturally follow the ball to the CP like Fed, but every time I have tried following the ball all the way to the CP, the resulting FH has been spectacular by my own standards.I only wish I had the focus & concentration to keep doing that.

The point that I made earlier is that, while Roger tracks the ball for quite a while, he does NOT follow the ball all the way to his CP (which is usually physically impossible anyway). His eyes actually get to his expected CP a bit before the ball does -- which means than he is not watching the ball all the way.

 

[chikoo]

The point that I made earlier is that, while Roger tracks the ball for quite a while, he does NOT follow the ball all the way to his CP (which is usually physically impossible anyway). His eyes actually get to his expected CP a bit before the ball does -- which means than he is not watching the ball all the way.

Give or take 6 to 18 inches, yes. Regardless, my normal method of taking my eyes off at about 3-4 feet and relying on anticipated trajectory is not that awesome.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Give or take 6 to 18 inches, yes. Regardless, my normal method of taking my eyes off at about 3-4 feet and relying on anticipated trajectory is not that awesome.

It may be even more than that for Roger in many cases. In the post #8 vid, he may no longer be tracking the ball at the 0:14 mark. It appears that his eyes may already be ahead of the ball as he turns hit head to fix his gaze on the CP. Agassi stopped turning his head even sooner since he fixed his gaze a bit in front of the CP. Murray may be looking even further ahead than Agassi. But they all keep the head still for a while -- Roger, longer than the other two. I'd go with the gaze technique of either Roger or Andre for this.

I would often myself mis-hitting more in the 3rd set because my head started moving too early to follow the outgoing ball. When I caught myself doing this, I would perform shadow swings between games or points. At the start of the shadow swing motion, I would be looking up as if watching an incoming ball. Shortly after I start the forward swing phase, I turn my head to fix my gaze on an imaginary CP.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

In the beginning I went out and bought a ball machine. I was so obsessed with learning a good topspin forehand, every shot for over a year I was popping my head up immediately at contact looking for " was it a good shot?"
I mean days of nothing but forehands and looking up...needless to say I have developed a horrible habit of raising my head up ...now me and my coach are trying to have faith in my shots and keep me eyes on contact.
Good luck and don't make the same mistake I did.

I can fix that for you @nytennisaddict
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...-not-look-up-and-keep-eye-on-the-ball.589295/

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Thanks for all the tips guys.

I have another question about the forehand.

My forearm and wrist are now getting sore. I'm using the semi-western grip which I haven't used before and I find that my wrist is not as well supported or used to the shock when the momentum of the ball knocks back on the racquet on contact.

But could it be because my wrist is too tight?

*When you swing the racquet, should you be loosening your grip and relaxing your wrist (just letting it swing naturally with the centrifugal force) and letting the momentum of the racquet head absorb the impact of the ball?*

Right now what I'm doing is driving through the ball with my core, shoulder, but also wrist. In fact, I kinda sorta feel like my wrist, being firm, is "guiding" the ball at the very end.

In slow motion replays I often see the head knocked and twisted around right after impact, even for the pros. This quick sudden knock I think is what is causing my pain because I might be gripping too tightly and having my wrist too firm and allowing this knock to transmit directly into my wrist and forearm with maximum force.

If I held the racquet less forcefully and kept my wrist relaxed (instead of trying to drive through the ball) I would imagine that this sudden knock and any twisting would get damped a lot more.

Does this make sense?

Put another way, in a lot of videos the wrist is in extension before the swing. After contact is made, the wrist is in *less* extension than when it started. Is this change in extension due to the player purposefully flexing and driving the wrist (and in the process using the wrist muscles through this shock period), or is this change in extension simply due to the centrifugal forces naturally throwing the relaxed wrist into a neutral position?

 

[Nellie]

It is pretty easy to get sore with a ball machine, so be careful. With a ball machine, you are often making numerous hits in short time, whereas you would hit a few balls and stop to pickup when hitting with a friend or even hitting against a wall. Be especially careful with volleys because they can be hard on your wrists.

To improve, I would sit up a target like a chair or bag on the other side of the court (or use the ball machine as a target). Place the target well inside (maybe 5 feet) the side/base lines.
Then set up the machines to fire balls to a first location at a fairly slow rate (like one ball every 2 seconds). Find a starting spot at a second location that is spaced apart (maybe 10 feet) from where the ball machine is aimed, so you have to move to the first location before hitting. Aim at the target when you hit, and return to the second location after every shot. In another example, you can put down a bag or other obstacle, and circle around the obstacle between every stroke.

I do maybe 10-20 balls and take a break. I mostly work on hitting with relaxed strokes and accurate aim. After a few sets, move the aiming location/target. I like to do cross court sets, then up the middle sets, and then down the line sets on both bh/fh sides. This goes pretty fast - maybe 30 minutes.