Have Nadal and Djokovic had greater competition in slams than Federer?

Have Nadal and Djokovic has greater slam competition than Federer?


  • Total voters
    125

Sunny014

Hall of Fame
In form Federer and Nadal playing close to prime tennis >>>>> Cryic, Bagdhatis, Philippousis, Roddick or any of those 04-07, 17 clowns lmao. :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
That still doesn't change the fact that Nole remains younger to to them, age is a real thing, everything else is subjective.
 

Sunny014

Hall of Fame
@metsman this is what I mean about building your confidence against second tier competition versus building it by breaking through prime ATGs. I was just too lazy to put up the actual names/felt you'd seen them before.
What tier was your Pete if this second tier kicked him out of tennis and made him retire ?
These guys have a wining H2H over Pete, why? Was Pete 3rd tier?
 

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
That still doesn't change the fact that Nole remains younger to to them, age is a real thing, everything else is subjective.
Age meaning they are weak players is also subjective from you, and very suspect. Federer said he was playing better than ever in 2015. Nadal posted his best HC stats ever aged 31-34. Big 3 won 14/15 previous slams in 30s.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Yeah I disagree and I think it's your bias or more accurately your different understanding of tennis quality that leads you to that conclusion. I do agree that 04-05 Federer would dominate 14-15 but that doesn't necessarily mean they're equal.
If you believe that, then there's nothing supremely tougher in 2014-2015 that 2004-2005 Fed was lucky not to face.

I mean, other than you actually being more specific, we'll never know what we disagree on.

Fair enough but I still do think young Djokovic does better in years Fed failed to fully capitalize on pre 2004. I think you agree but are just downplaying it a bit and of course Nadal does the best of all.
I mean, 20 year old Djokovic does better than Fed, but I don't think he wins a slam in 2001, 21 year old Djokovic obviously does much better, but might also win just 1 slam in 2002 as well if we're being honest.

Fair enough. I don't think the only slams of Fed's that aren't strong are 03-07 ones (some of his 03-07 ones are also good there's a lot of nuance to this) but again my final conclusion is that Djokodal have had it tougher. It's not something I have the time to fully explain why right now because there's so much that goes into it but you're familiar with me and my posting history so you have some idea as to my rationale.
We'll agree to disagree on this. Djokodal have had their share of strong slam wins, but so has Federer. And Djokodal themselves have had their fair share of weaker slam wins just like Federer. Like I said, Nadal has had 2010, 2017-present and 2013 USO. That's a lot of weaker slams.

Also, Fed has dealt with Djokodal and with every one of their competition too, on top of having his own guys and Agassi. So that's why I don't necessarily think Djokodal have had it tougher, because Fed has dealt with everything their generation has thrown at him plus his own and Agassi. And if he wasn't too old and injured, he would be dealing with Thiem and the Next Gen just as much as Djokodal.

Again this happens to everyone. 12 AO Nadal had to go through GOATing Berdych, Fed, and Djok. Djokovic likely wins CYGS in 2011 if Nadal draws Fed instead of him. There's plenty of cases where each guys gotten unlucky. I will say that Fed and Djok tend to have worse draw luck then Nadal. Hewitt has the all time worst draw luck by far though (might be my bias but I fully believe it)
Mostly referring to him getting that kind of draw at 38, not the draw itself.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I think that's most likely true, although it could depend a little on how high you set the bar for qualification as an all-time great.

Like I said, I'm not 100% sure that Auger-Aliassime or possibly even Sinner has displayed that talent, either. Perhaps they have. There's still time for them to improve.

I wonder whether Carlos Alcaraz will pass them all by and be the next big thing. Tough for him that his most likely breakthrough is on the surface where there's the biggest obstacle.
Well, Tsitsipas, Zverev and Medvedev are certainly not that young anymore and all should be in their primes right now. If any of them were ATG talents, they would have shown it by now.
 

Sunny014

Hall of Fame
Age meaning they are weak players is also subjective from you, and very suspect. Federer said he was playing better than ever in 2015. Nadal posted his best HC stats ever aged 31-34. Big 3 won 14/15 previous slams in 30s.
Bettering performance on stats cannot be equated with increase in level.
It only means the rivals are worse now.
 

ElisRF

Professional
If you believe that, then there's nothing supremely tougher in 2014-2015 that 2004-2005 Fed was lucky not to face.

I mean, other than you actually being more specific, we'll never know what we disagree on.


I mean, 20 year old Djokovic does better than Fed, but I don't think he wins a slam in 2001, 21 year old Djokovic obviously does much better, but might also win just 1 slam in 2002 as well if we're being honest.


We'll agree to disagree on this. Djokodal have had their share of strong slam wins, but so has Federer. And Djokodal themselves have had their fair share of weaker slam wins just like Federer. Like I said, Nadal has had 2010, 2017-present and 2013 USO. That's a lot of weaker slams.

Also, Fed has dealt with Djokodal and with every one of their competition too, on top of having his own guys and Agassi. So that's why I don't necessarily think Djokodal have had it tougher, because Fed has dealt with everything their generation has thrown at him plus his own and Agassi. And if he wasn't too old and injured, he would be dealing with Thiem and the Next Gen just as much as Djokodal.


Mostly referring to him getting that kind of draw at 38, not the draw itself.
2005-2007 Fed would have a good chance at CYGS in 2015 and 2016 in the same field.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Lol i noticed you changed it from a bit weaker to clearly weaker probably after reading the comments in this thread.
after seeing so many confidently saying Djokovic/Nadal had tougher competition, I thought they think "a bit" means very very close. Its not very very close.
So yeah, I changed it.

Also I see hilarious comments like 2014-15 tougher than 2004-05. That just makes me laugh.
 

RS

Legend
after seeing so many confidently saying Djokovic/Nadal had tougher competition, I thought they think "a bit" means very very close.
So yeah, I changed it.

Also I see hilarious comments like 2014-15 tougher than 2004-05. That just makes me laugh.
I knew it i could tell.

Still gonna make that thread you were planning?
 
P

PETEhammer

Guest
great Federer and prime Nadal/Djokovic are easier than baby Nadal/Nole and Roddick? :unsure: :unsure:
 

RS

Legend
great Federer and prime Nadal/Djokovic are easier than baby Nadal/Nole and Roddick? :unsure: :unsure:
Nadal RG 05 SF - 9/10
Nadal RG 06 F - 9/10
Nadal RG 07 F - 10/10
Nadal Wim 07 F - 9.5/10

Which slam match did Federer play vs Djokovic in 14-16 that was better than the above from baby Nadal?
 
Last edited:
P

PETEhammer

Guest
Nadal RG 05 SF - 8.5/10
Nadal RG 06 F - 8/10
Nadal Wimbledon 06 F - 6.75/10
Nadal RG 07 F - 8.5/10
Nadal Wim 07 F - 8.75/10

Which slam match did Federer play vs Djokovic in 14-16 that was better than the above?
Wimbledon '14 is certainly superior to 06 W Nadal and comparable to 07. Why are you forgetting baby Nole and Roddick though? :unsure: Federer was a constant threat to Nole at slams outside RG from '14-16 and was far superior to either player, or Hewitt, Baghdatis, Gonzalez, and Philippousis. Nole's utter dominance of Fed isn't a mark against Fed but a mark for Nole.

You also forgot about peak Nadal stopping Djokovic at RG in '14.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

RS

Legend
Wimbledon '14 is certainly superior to 06 W Nadal lol, and comparable to 07. Why are you forgetting baby Nole and Roddick though? :unsure: Federer was a constant threat to Nole at slams outside RG from '14-16 and was far superior to either player, or Hewitt, Baghdatis, Gonzalez, and Philippousis lol. Nole's utter dominance of Fed isn't a mark against Fed but a mark for Nole.

You also forgot about peak Nadal stopping Djokovic at RG in '14.
I only cared to mention Nadal for obvious reasons i do not consider Roddick or baby Djokovic harder than Federer in 2014-2015 nor was that said here :D

Federer of Wim 14 is ahead of 06 Nadal at Wim but not the rest i listed and he went 3 and a half sets without breaking Djokovic :p
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
More ad hominem instead of arguments. You're so predictable :-D :-D :-D
RG 2007 Nadal was peak Nadal, only behind RG 2008 (maybe arguably RG 2012). To say in seriousness that RG 2007 final Nadal is 8.5/10 shows either you have no idea what are you talking about or you have some serious damage due to insane level of butthurt.
 
P

PETEhammer

Guest
I only cared to mention Nadal for obvious reasons i dont consider Roddick or baby Djokovic harder than Federer nor was that said here :D

Federer of Wim 14 is ahead of 06 Nadal at Wim but not the rest i listed :p
So 2/3 of Federer's supposed great opposition is weaker than Djokovic's competition (Nadal, Federer, Murray) and yet we're arguing who had tougher competition overall? :unsure:
 

RS

Legend
So 2/3 of Federer's supposed great opposition is weaker than Djokovic's competition (Nadal, Federer, Murray) and yet we're arguing who had tougher competition overall? :unsure:
Take that my with poll and other users i only went after the comment about Nadal being a baby in those years IDC about much the rest.
 
P

PETEhammer

Guest
RG 2007 Nadal was peak Nadal, only behind RG 2008 (maybe arguably RG 2012). To say in seriousness that RG 2007 final Nadal is 8.5/10 shows either you have no idea what are you talking about or you have some serious damage due to insane level of butthurt.
You get owned and degrade into more and more severe forms of ad hominem, LULZing, and gif posting and I'm the butthurt one?
 
P

PETEhammer

Guest
Take that my with poll and other users i only went after the comment about Nadal being a baby in those years IDC about much the rest.
He was a baby. 2008 Nadal would wreck 2005-07 Nadal on and off clay, as would 2009, 10, 11, and 12 Nadal (off-clay)
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
A meme...I think we know we're in for an abmk m-e-l-t-down. Gonna keep my distance, thanks.
RG 2007 Nadal was peak Nadal, only behind RG 2008 (maybe arguably RG 2012). To say in seriousness that RG 2007 final Nadal is 8.5/10 shows either you have no idea what are you talking about or you have some serious damage due to insane level of butthurt.

Hilarious to see butthurt melting down clown talking about meltdown of others.

that butthurt is leading to lot of delusions as well for you. Poor chap. Get some help.
 
P

PETEhammer

Guest
What would you rate Federer of the Wim 14 final though out of 10.

Noticed you spoke of him very highly.
Well I struggle to say, his ground game was great but Federer is not merely his ground game of course. He has that little extra something, that magical spark that makes him, him. And he brought that spark to '14 F. If it was a non-Federer player I would say 8.5/10, but given Federer has that spark I'll say 9/10.
 

RS

Legend
Well I struggle to say, his ground game was great but Federer is not merely his ground game of course. He has that little extra something, that magical spark that makes him, him. And he brought that spark to '14 F. If it was a non-Federer player I would say 8.5/10, but given Federer has that spark I'll say 9/10.
What about the Wim 15 and USO 15 finals now?
 
P

PETEhammer

Guest
What about the Wim 15 and USO 15 finals now?
Another thing to keep in mind is that not all ratings are created equal. For example, Federer playing 8/10 equals Roddick's 12/10, and Nadal on clay playing 5/10 is like Federer's 9/10 on clay and so on, hence competition mattering...
btw I know you're trying to use me as bait :p
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
Arguing for any RG final Nadal below a 9/10 (unless you're using a special scale for him) is absolute nonsense. Never mind his third or second best RG form.
 

RS

Legend
Another thing to keep in mind is that not all ratings are created equal. For example, Federer playing 8/10 equals Roddick's 12/10, and Nadal on clay playing 5/10 is like Federer's 9/10 on clay and so on, hence competition mattering...
btw I know you're trying to use me as bait :p
I have heard this saying from another Djokovic fan before but not so sure i agree with it.

2nd part is wrong not using you for bait :p
 
P

PETEhammer

Guest
Arguing for any RG final Nadal below a 9/10 (unless you're using a special scale for him) is absolute nonsense. Never mind his third or second best RG form.
Obviously we're using a special scale for all these players. Pete's Third Serve on grass for example is greater than Nadal's first.
 
Top