swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
Serenity now!You're back?
How was banland?
Serenity now!You're back?
How was banland?
Well, the muddy conditions certainly gave Djokovic an edge, otherwise I feel Nadal would have won in straights.Do you think Nadal was playing poorly? I mean maybe compared to his 2012 god form but he was still playing well. Djokovic was dialed in after the SF and Nadal pretty much routined him outside of that one stretch where Novak was straight treeing and he dropped off a bit. 12 Nadal was insane. I think 10 Nadal gets slept on just because he didn't beat one of Djokerer.
So, just 2003-2004?The only thing that keeps Feds competition back a tad for me is his years before the other 3 got going. He had Nadal starting in 2005.
Machan ... being a Sampras fan has one advantage in that I can understand exactly what the Federer fans are going throughFair point and I agree with that.
They have gone off the rails man.
Complete mental breakdown.
It is like a swarm of locusts at this point.
When they get on a thread you can kiss it goodbye.
Eaten to the roots.
Super, welcome back and let the battles beginI had to step away. A Fed fan got to me and I hate it when one of them causes me to lose my temper.
They are not worth the time or energy.
Totally.Machan ... being a Sampras fan has one advantage in that I can understand exactly what the Federer fans are going throughWhen Sampras' records were broken by Federer, I was completely dismayed and unable to come to terms with it for a long time.
Now fast forward a few years and you have Federer who didn't just break Sampras' records but left Sampras so far back, you thought nobody would ever catch him. But here Federer is and his records are getting broken right before his eyes while he is still playing! It's just tough for fans to swallow. As you rightly said, complete mental breakdown.
Great post!Totally.
I was a huge Connors, Sampras and Agassi Fan yet when Fed blew them away I never had a temper tantrum.
I was like wow this guy is greater and accepted it when Fed got 15.
Just part of the game.
Fed was my favorite for a long time until I saw Djokovic play IW 2007.
Just like the 2hb and the baseline style of Djokovic the best.
A 5-6 years older and physically inferior version of him,.He already won 12 majors by the time Nadal matured off of clay though, and was at 16 by the time Nole entered his prime. Djokodal both had to fight through him (and each other) to get to where they are.
And 30 - 35 yo Agassi is stronger than current Tsitsipas. What's your point?Thiem is stronger than Safin because he shows up more consistently, and Tsitsipas is def. stronger than Baggy
LOL X 10,000! Brilliant Machan@Sunny Ali Indeed, this competition thing has been beaten to death and next comes Federer's record against Djokovic in Wimbledon Finals.
Better than Anderson and Thiem.Federer had it tougher, he had to face 1-slam Roddick, Marco The Beat Baghdhatis and Mighty Mark Philippoussis in some of his finals
Yeah, 35 year old Andre had better stamina after 3 five setters than 22.5 year old Tsitsipas. Embarrassing.And 30 - 35 yo Agassi is stronger than current Tsitsipas. What's your point?
Wait, I also forgot about One Shot Gonzalez LMFAOBetter than Anderson and Thiem.
This, so much this. They can't have it both ways.If 2004-2006 would have been that weak, like detractors say, then 2005-2006 Nadal should have had no problem reaching Federer on HC slams.They weren't that weak after all and I like the "fully mature" excuse, from the same posters who are quick to point out the age excuse from the Fed fanbase.Double standards much ? If Nadal needed to fully mature, in order to reach slam finals on hc, then Fed's hardcourt opposition wasn't weak.
You also forgot about Hewitt, Safin, Nadal, Djokovic and Agassi.Wait, I also forgot about One Shot Gonzalez LMFAO
Fed did a decent job against a 90 year old Agassi who had been in and out of the care home tbh, will give him thatYou also forgot about Hewitt, Safin, Nadal, Djokovic and Agassi.
But that's ok. Clearly Baghdatis is more important than those. And Karatsev too.
Yeah, true. I gotta credit Djokovic too for doing a good job against a Fed who was barely able to get out of bed to play those slam finals on a Sunday like every other pensioner.Fed did a decent job against a 90 year old Agassi who had been in and out of the care home tbh, will give him that
Federer had to go to church those Sundays tbh, to pray to his god Djokovic, so I can understand why he didn't want to wake up for those slams <3Yeah, true. I gotta credit Djokovic too for doing a good job against a Fed who was barely able to get out of bed to play those slam finals on a Sunday like every other pensioner.
I think he meant to say no set lost on red clay.Nadal lost to Verdasco at Madrid.
Novak GOATing will still not get him 8 games in a row if Nadal is playing well in that stretch.
Its not that Nadal lost that 3rd set, its that he lost 8 games in a row.
and 20-30 year old Agassi is stronger than all of them (save prime/Prince Nole) on hards bahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaAnd 30 - 35 yo Agassi is stronger than current Tsitsipas. What's your point?
03-06, baby Nadal off-clay doesn't really count as an ATG imoThat's a good point but that can be easily countered by the Federer fans by pointing out the current competition which lacks any potential all-time great. What Federer enjoyed in the period 2003-2005 (lack of an all-time great competitor), Nadal/Djokovic are enjoying now so all said and done, things get balanced out. I don't think any of them has had an unfair advantage over the others in terms of competition but the Federer fans are beating that point to death and I'm getting tired of it.
Gonzo was a monster in AO 07.Wait, I also forgot about One Shot Gonzalez LMFAO
Nadal was the undeniable best of 2008/09/10Well Federer had 12 slams before Nadal was at his best and 16 before Djokovic was. Too be fair they all combine for 57 slams every opposition bar themselves is easy enough for them. They all had periods where they far away the best player on tour, maybe not Nadal overall but Clay for say 15 years
Fed was better overall in 2009. Nadal couldn't maintain his form the whole year.Nadal was the undeniable best of 2008/09/10
He was a claycourt Specialist adapting to the tour off his best surface, and still younger than Federer was when he won his first hardcourt major (22 v 23), staaaaaahpppp this nonsenseThis, so much this. They can't have it both ways.
If the then no.2 Nadal couldn't reach a HC slam final for 4 years, Fed's HC competition clearly wasn't weak. Otherwise, we'd be hearing how baby clay courter Nadal was able to reach HC slam finals LMAO.
Sure, but everyone knew what a lifeline Feddy was thrown that year is my point. If Rafa had maintained his form he would have beaten everyone at slams.Fed was better overall in 2009. Nadal couldn't maintain his form the whole year.
Federer lost every match to Nadal at RG so what's the big deal? Sampras could do that too. Heck, so could I.Sampras never faced anybody as good as Nadal at RG at his best.
It counts as competition even so.Federer lost every match to Nadal at RG so what's the big deal? Sampras could do that too. Heck, so could I.
So I'm supposed to throw Feddy a bone because of one guy who ensured he didn't get a free pass to the @CYGS every single year? Yeah, NO. Lmao.It counts as competition even so.
Got destroyed by broken hipped Kuerten while having one of the best seasons in history. RG clay is also faster these days than during Pete's time. And Pete played clay specialists, Fed played hardcourters on clay, aside from Rafa who destroyed himYes and Federer was a better clay player than Pete as well.
lmao you're not actually making the argument for Pete being a better clay player than Fed, are you?Got destroyed by broken hipped Kuerten while having one of the best seasons in history. RG clay is also faster these days than during Pete's time. And Pete played clay specialists, Fed played hardcourters on clay, aside from Rafa who destroyed him
Anyways thread is about Djokodal and Fed's competition, so nice deflect ROFLMAO!!!
Nailed it! 100% agreed, Hammer!03-06, baby Nadal off-clay doesn't really count as an ATG imo
But yeah it's hilarious how much they push this stuff when they ridiculed Sampras fans and acted so much the victim when Samp fans brought up Fed's weak era. Now they're doing it for the ATG about to pass their guy, which shows they never had a problem with the Weak Era talk on any principle, but just because it was directed to their guy.
Sad.
Kuerten was on fire that day.Got destroyed by broken hipped Kuerten while having one of the best seasons in history. RG clay is also faster these days than during Pete's time. And Pete played clay specialists, Fed played hardcourters on clay, aside from Rafa who destroyed him
Anyways thread is about Djokodal and Fed's competition, so nice deflect ROFLMAO!!!
Gap is prolly not as big as we think is all I'm saying.lmao you're not actually making the argument for Pete being a better clay player than Fed, are you?
LOL X 10,000! Peach of a post!Federer lost every match to Nadal at RG so what's the big deal? Sampras could do that too. Heck, so could I.
As I've mentioned before, tangents of a few posts or so are completely natural in a forum like this, so shutting them down like so is kind of a waste of breath. Besides, I'm merely continuing the topic that was started up several posts ago.Gap is prolly not as big as we think is all I'm saying.
And, please, stay on topic.
Natural for you perhaps. The rest of us are trying to have a serious, mature discussion. Please feel free to join us.As I've mentioned before, tangents of a few posts or so are completely natural in a forum like this, so shutting them down like so is kind of a waste of breath. Besides, I'm merely continuing the topic that was started up several posts ago.
btw, I see you FFW
This is a reasonable perspective imoFederer is the pioneer whom improvised consistent all court tennis. He started everything hence he deserved all the slams even if is weak era. His style made everyone weak.
In a weak era thread? Nonsense.Natural for you perhaps. The rest of us are trying to have a serious, mature discussion. Please feel free to join us.
He still can improve by training more defensive skills, focused too much on attacking. I felt he stopped developing after 2006 and 2017, its one of the things he should have done to become the best by far. The competition overtook him by 2011. He needs better defense as his serve and ground strokes are good enough to hurt anyone. Many points he needs to slide and push.This is a reasonable perspective imo
Fed clearly pioneered a new way to play, just too bad the tour didn't go more into the baseline/all court direction instead of grinder/counterpuncher territory
Favorite Fed forehand is '08 bazooka when he went for it. Favorite Fed overall is 2017erer. Driving every point, taking the ball early yet hitting heavy, backhand an offensive weapon, and finishing points at net. It was too good to last.He still can improve by training more defensive skills, focused too much on attacking. I felt he stopped developing after 2006 and 2017, its one of the things he should have done to become the best by far. The competition overtook him by 2011. He needs better defense as his serve and ground strokes are good enough to hurt anyone. Many points he needs to slide and push.