Have Sinner’s physical issues so far been worse than Alcaraz’s, and if so will this continue?

[jl809]

People talk about Alcaraz as if his body might be as big a barrier to him winning 20+ slams as any rival, with his playstyle causing him physical issues (like Nadal who won 22 slams anyway in the era of Fedovic so idk why people don’t think Raz can’t get injuries AND get to 20 but that’s another discussion)

But over the last 2 years, it’s been this main potential rival who has also struggled to sort out his body… arguably even more than Alcaraz

Here are some of Sinner’s issues since the start of 2022:

• Indian Wells 22: withdraws with illness before Kyrgios match
• Miami 22: retires against Cerundolo with illness
• French 22: retires with knee injury vs Rublev
• Sofia 22: withdraws after ankle injury vs Borges
• China 23: wins with illness (vomits in a bin during win over Dimitrov)
• Paris 23: withdraws citing scheduling on body
• (I feel like I am missing an example of Bo3 cramping vs Alcaraz here too somewhere, couldn’t remember the year)
• MC 24: cramps in loss vs Tsitsipas
• Madrid 24: withdraws with hip injury after match vs Khachanov
• French 24: cramps (+ possible other issues) in loss vs Alcaraz
• Wimbledon 24: loses with illness vs Medvedev

Is this something to keep an eye on long term?

 

[bigR]

Sick boi can't hold his guts

 

[FeroBango]

For Alcaraz, his body will not hold up. For Sinner, 'wait til his body holds up'.

For Sinner, hip issues and flu, but for Alcaraz, lol just a non-existent forehand, minor quad issues and ankle roll.

We view things the way we want to.

 

[travlerajm]

People talk about Alcaraz as if his body might be as big a barrier to him winning 20+ slams as any rival, with his playstyle causing him physical issues (like Nadal who won 22 slams anyway in the era of Fedovic so idk why people don’t think Raz can’t get injuries AND get to 20 but that’s another discussion)

But over the last 2 years, it’s been this main potential rival who has also struggled to sort out his body… arguably even more than Alcaraz

Here are some of Sinner’s issues since the start of 2022:

• Indian Wells 22: withdraws with illness before Kyrgios match
• Miami 22: retires against Cerundolo with illness
• French 22: retires with knee injury vs Rublev
• Sofia 22: withdraws after ankle injury vs Borges
• China 23: wins with illness (vomits in a bin during win over Dimitrov)
• Paris 23: withdraws citing scheduling on body
• (I feel like I am missing an example of Bo3 cramping vs Alcaraz here too somewhere, couldn’t remember the year)
• MC 24: cramps in loss vs Tsitsipas
• Madrid 24: withdraws with hip injury after match vs Khachanov
• French 24: cramps (+ possible other issues) in loss vs Alcaraz
• Wimbledon 24: loses with illness vs Medvedev

Is this something to keep an eye on long term?

Most of those aren’t injuries just invented ego saving excuses.

 

[Kralingen]

You’re forgetting US Open 2023 which was one of the most ridiculously up and down matches I’d ever seen, both guys looked on the verge of death multiple times. Sinner had like 15 different moments where his body looked like it was giving out, I think it was just cramps, but it was still crazy in real time.

I agree. Sinner is more fragile than Alcaraz and I don’t even think it’s arguable. Especially in Bo5 where he’s always running into issues.

However I am still very concerned about Carlos.

My issue with Alcaraz is his arm problems. You can heal the legs, you can get surgery on them, but if your elbow/wrist is messed up it’s usually curtains for you at the top of the game. He really needs to find a solution because if we have an ATG career ruined by tennis elbow it’ll be horrible for the sport.

 

[placebo]

You’re forgetting US Open 2023 which was one of the most ridiculously up and down matches I’d ever seen, both guys looked on the verge his body looked like it was giving out, I think it was just cramps, but it was still crazy in real time.

I agree. Sinner is more fragile than Alcaraz and I don’t even think it’s arguable. Especially in Bo5 where he’s always running into issues.

At the moment, I am not favoring Sinner to pick up the USO title for this reason. Humidity + potential fatigue from Olympics run and lead-up events + current fragility in Bo5 = bad mix. I don’t doubt his abilities and that he could surprise me, but I think there’s a good explanation why he hasn’t made it past QF there.

 

[Rovesciarete]

Is this something to keep an eye on long term?

Good thread, it is certainly quite a long list and there were quite a few before. Would not put Paris 23 there, IW 24 maybe but there are some important question:

1) How serious are the injuries/illnesses?

2) What are the specific trends?

3) How are Sinner and his team handling them?

——————-

1) So far we had only one ‘bigger’ injury issue, the hip question which seems to be no longer a problem per se. The lack of athletic preparation and the illness before RG have more consequential in my opinion. However his margin over most players was large enough to not get exposed in RG before meeting Alcaraz - similar actually to Djokovic in Wimby.

2) Seems to me we are seeing more illnesses. Athletes are susceptible to illnesses, late developers likely more. Family members of mine have been and are quite successful at the national level in various sports and illnesses are surprisingly frequent.

We might also see the effects of heavy ‘catch-up’ training. Jannik was quite outspoken about the need to push hard even during Madrid and we might have entered areas of overtraining before the forced stop. Adjusting loads could help even if it would flatten the ramp up.

3) Some niggles and problems seem to have been solved or mitigated. I’m thinking about the blisters and the pollen allergy respectively. This is certainly positive and seems to indicate a team willing to analyse problems and work out solutions.

I was actually quite relieved that he was willing to sacrifice Rome to avoid a potential long-term problem in the hip. He is in for the long haul.

 

[NoleFam]

Sinner is already at 11 retirements/walkovers and he's not even 23 yet.

 

[Deleted member 810491]

I don't think Sinner or Berrettini have the right bodies for tennis, those ultra-thin legs, don't give them enough balance.
Musetti will be the most successful Italian.

 

[ollinger]

Continue?? His physical problems may get worse.

 

[TheGoldenEra1990’s]

The safest bet is probably neither of their bodies hold up. For sinner though he’s got more promise because alcaraz has already peaked early. He will be on the downhill side of his career in 2-3 years like Nadal and once that movement/explosion off the ground is gone that spells trouble. He’s not a naturally great server either. Yea he can get it cranking but it’s not going to cranking. Like nadals crapped the best after 2010. . Sinner can play winning tennis for another 5-6 years. His physique isn’t really one for tennis though


People needs to realize the Big 3s longevity was RARE. They are an exception to the rule. Not the rule

Plus there is so many hardcourts now. That’s where your body gets destroyed.
If I had to place a big time bet I would say neither guy makes it to 30 playing winning tennis. I’ll say alcaraz is done by 26. Sinner will be done by 29

 

[Angrybirdstar]

(I feel like I am missing an example of Bo3 cramping vs Alcaraz here too somewhere, couldn’t remember the year)

Would not put Paris 23 there, IW 24 maybe but there are some important question:

i think Alcaraz and Sinner cramped against each other (at different times) in Miami '23 and then Sinner had some issue (leg?) in IW '24

You’re forgetting US Open 2023 which was one of the most ridiculously up and down matches I’d ever seen, both guys looked on the verge of death multiple times. Sinner had like 15 different moments where his body looked like it was giving out, I think it was just cramps, but it was still crazy in real time.

MC 24: cramps in loss vs Tsitsipas

can't find the original interview for the Zverev loss (for Tsitsipas: http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=196408) but Sinner attributed both of these to nerves and not his body failing (similar to Alcaraz's against Djokovic in RG '23)

 

[Incognito]

I don't think Sinner or Berrettini have the right bodies for tennis, those ultra-thin legs, don't give them enough balance.
Musetti will be the most successful Italian.

Musetti unfortunately has problems with his brains. At least Sinner Will be healthy most of the time. There’s no Cure for stupid.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

My issue with Alcaraz is his arm problems. You can heal the legs, you can get surgery on them, but if your elbow/wrist is messed up it’s usually curtains for you at the top of the game. He really needs to find a solution because if we have an ATG career ruined by tennis elbow it’ll be horrible for the sport.

Heavier racquet with atleast 15% more swing & hold weight, I'd be conveying that to Ferrero at USO.

 

[Kralingen]

i think Alcaraz and Sinner cramped against each other (at different times) in Miami '23 and then Sinner had some issue (leg?) in IW '24


can't find the original interview for the Zverev loss (for Tsitsipas: http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=196408) but Sinner attributed both of these to nerves and not his body failing (similar to Alcaraz's against Djokovic in RG '23)

He can say whatever he wants but if you watch the match back he's on death's door from basically the end of the second set onwards.

He limps after every point and his box looks nervous af the entire time

 

[Angrybirdstar]

He can say whatever he wants but if you watch the match back he's on death's door from basically the end of the second set onwards.

He limps after every point and his box looks nervous af the entire time

isn't this, along with Zverev struggling (a certified stamina merchant), more evidence that it's not about Sinner's fitness? iirc this match along with the Rublev-Medvedev match had really high humidity that would have made for horrible conditions no matter who was playing

 

[metsman]

Sinner makes Nishikori look like Cal Ripken Jr.

 

[metsman]

He can say whatever he wants but if you watch the match back he's on death's door from basically the end of the second set onwards.

He limps after every point and his box looks nervous af the entire time

Zverev winning a grand slam 5th set against non-early round fodder is basically a paranormal event. That's the level of Sinner's fitness.

 

[Rosstour]

Sinner is already at 11 retirements/walkovers and he's not even 23 yet.

Legs too long, torso too short.

He is the only ATP player to do that crouch we've seen Swiatek and Kerber employ, because his proportions are close to those of a woman

 

[Thundergod]

How many illnesses can a guy have? He probably got more illnesses in those 2 years than I have in like 10.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Sinner has the bigger problem because his body or health can’t hold up in a long beat of 5 emslan.

Whereas Alcaraz body holds up fine when he’s fit and playing slams. Alcaraz gets small layoffinjuries between slams that could cost him playing a few over time.

However, it worse when it affects you in most slams like it does to Sinner if he has 1 or 2 long brutal matches. It will be difficult for Sinner to win a lot of slams unless this changes. As he won’t always be able to save energy.

 

[Rovesciarete]

isn't this, along with Zverev struggling (a certified stamina merchant), more evidence that it's not about Sinner's fitness? iirc this match along with the Rublev-Medvedev match had really high humidity that would have made for horrible conditions no matter who was playing

Zverev has been a bad match-up for him. Better server and great pace absorbtion, more so on the backhand wing. Quite Meddy-like.

Actually the US Open match was quite positive for me as it showed a surprising amount of stamina in terrible conditions.

There is no doubt that his physical condition is improving - slowly but surely.

 

[Kralingen]

Sinner makes Nishikori look like Cal Ripken Jr.

 

[_phantom]

Wimbledon 24: loses with illness vs Medvedev

Some Italian media blamed his relationship with Kalinskaya for this.

They said he shouldn't have spent so much time attending her matches in the lousy London weather.

 

[tudwell]

Sinner seems to have more minor issues, especially those that aren't strictly speaking injuries (illness, allergies, cramp). Alcaraz has had more that's forced him out of the game for longer periods – although I also think he's a bit better at fighting through/covering up those issues in big matches.

 

[NeutralFan]

Sinner has the bigger problem because his body or health can’t hold up in a long beat of 5 emslan.

Whereas Alcaraz body holds up fine when he’s fit and playing slams. Alcaraz gets small layoffinjuries between slams that could cost him playing a few over time.

However, it worse when it affects you in most slams like it does to Sinner if he has 1 or 2 long brutal matches. It will be difficult for Sinner to win a lot of slams unless this changes. As he won’t always be able to save energy.

Your opinion changes with fair weather , when Sinner was dominating you were singing his praise now out of blue Carlos won then you seem to have changed your opinion.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Your opinion changes with fair weather , when Sinner was dominating you were singing his praise now out of blue Carlos won then you seem to have changed your opinion.

Sinner hasn’t proved he can play long matches at the level alcaraz has. Bar the Australian open he’s mainly been a great best of 3 player. He will need to get fitter for slams if he wants to catch up to Carlos.

Even the Australian open was fairly plain sailing but in the final he nearly lost to a guy who was physically burnt out from his tough draw. I think sinner can match or maybe better Carlos in best of 3 but in best of 5 there is a clear gap at the moment.

Sinner hasn’t really dominated the big events though. He only has a couple of masters and a slam. He won more smaller events but he hasn’t set the tour a light yet. That can still change but we need to realise he’s not quite there yet in majors.

 

[NeutralFan]

Sinner hasn’t proved he can play long matches at the level alcaraz has. Bar the Australian open he’s mainly been a great best of 3 player. He will need to get fitted for slams if he wants to catch up to Carlos.

Even the Australian open was fairly plain sailing but in the final he nearly lost to a guy who was physically burnt out from his tough draw. I think sinner can match or maybe better Carlos in best of 3 but in best of 5 there is a clear gap at the moment.

There's not much gap, you're overhyping Carlos and underselling Sinner. Like Djokovic Sinner is a late bloomer and as Sampras Bruguera said @TheGoldenEra1990’s Sinner will dominate everywhere once he matures fully and hits his peak.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

There's not much gap, you're overhyping Carlos and underselling Sinner. Like Djokovic Sinner is a late bloomer and as Sampras Bruguera said @TheGoldenEra1990’s Sinner will dominate everywhere once he matures fully and hits his peak.

Well he needs to prove it. He is already 3 majors behind Carlos and is a couple of years older. He can rectify it but clearly alcaraz has made a much better start. He has to win the us open because if Carlos wins that or beats him again there it starting to look bleaker for the Italian. He’s at nearly the age Djokovic was when he started to dominate. No more excuses for him if he can’t now.

 

[FeroBango]

Once Sinner matures when he hits the age of 29, then it's over for y'all.

 

[NeutralFan]

Well he needs to prove it. He is already 3 majors behind Carlos and is a couple of years older. He can rectify it but clearly alcaraz has made a much better start. He has to win the us open because if Carlos wins that or beats him again there it starting to look bleaker for the Italian. He’s at nearly the age Djokovic was when he started to dominate. No more excuses for him if he can’t now.

We Sinner fans didn't make excuses, he was having one of the most dominant season on tour but unfortunate injury happened at Madrid masters and it totally messed up with his rythem, I didn't want him to play Madrid but he did. Even with disrupted momentum he had 2-1 lead at RG against Carlos. Sinner has proved himself, he's far more talented than Carlos and unfortunate injuries can't stop him all the time. You will join Sinner train soon when he wins USO this year.

 

[NeutralFan]

Once Sinner matures when he hits the age of 29, then it's over for y'all.

Naah Djokovic won his second slam quite late, Sinner just turned 23

 

[socallefty]

One of them has sticks for legs. Hard to look like a grasshopper and dominate the tour. He is still playing well enough to be #1 though.

 

[FeroBango]

Naah Djokovic won his second slam quite late, Sinner just turned 23

That's some dking logic tho. These are two different people separated by several years. Sinner is Sinner and once he hits 30, it's death knell for the tour.

Jk ofc. Sinner for USO

 

[Pheasant]

Sinner is working on his endurance and fitness. In his interview, he mentioned that he retired from a few matches in 2022. He sounded ashamed of that fact. I looked it up. He retired from 3 of them in 2022. He also retired from another one in 2023. I believe that he will get fitter. And I believe that it's a massive focus for him.

That said, here's what an "unfit" and "fragile" Sinner has done since September 27th of last year(Beijing tourney):

62-6, .912 overall
16-4, .800 vs top-10
1 slam title
1 Masters title
6 titles overall

I'm not writing this kid off yet. He has hit some scary levels at times. If he can fix his fitness and endurance issues, then watch out.

Note: Lendl at the age of his age-24 season in 1984 went to the doctor to fix his endurance issues. He came out a new beast in 1985 after he shaved over 100 points off of his cholesterol levels. LOL> He was eating fatty bacon and sausage nearly every day and washing it down with several bottles of Coca Cola each time.

Djokovic really fixed his issues when he discovered his gluten allergy at the end of his age-23 season in 2010.

Let's see if Sinner can step up. I hope that he can, since I want a close rivalry between Carlos and Jannik. I don't care who wins that rivalry, as long as it's close.

 

[Racquet_smash]

One thing that worries me about Alcaraz is his serving speed. He consistently hits at 200+ kph and players of his height either have Sampras' shoulders or don't last. See Nadal at USO 2010, he couldn't sustain it more any longer than that tournament.

Sinner has atrocious fitness, but i don't think it's something a training change can't fix.

 

[tudwell]

Sinner is working on his endurance and fitness. In his interview, he mentioned that he retired from a few matches in 2022. He sounded ashamed of that fact. I looked it up. He retired from 3 of them in 2022. He also retired from another one in 2023. I believe that he will get fitter. And I believe that it's a massive focus for him.

That said, here's what an "unfit" and "fragile" Sinner has done since September 27th of last year(Beijing tourney):

62-6, .912 overall
16-4, .800 vs top-10
1 slam title
1 Masters title
6 titles overall

I'm not writing this kid off yet. He has hit some scary levels at times. If he can fix his fitness and endurance issues, then watch out.

Note: Lendl at the age of his age-24 season in 1984 went to the doctor to fix his endurance issues. He came out a new beast in 1985 after he shaved over 100 points off of his cholesterol levels. LOL> He was eating fatty bacon and sausage nearly every day and washing it down with several bottles of Coca Cola each time.

Djokovic really fixed his issues when he discovered his gluten allergy at the end of his age-23 season in 2010.

Let's see if Sinner can step up. I hope that he can, since I want a close rivalry between Carlos and Jannik. I don't care who wins that rivalry, as long as it's close.

Yeah I think a lot of people overstate Jannik's fragility. He's physically fit enough to be by far the most consistent player of the last, like, 10 months. He's lost two best-of-three matches this year, to Alcaraz and Tsitsipas, both in three sets. He's also lost two best-of-five matches, to Alcaraz and Medvedev, both in five sets. It's taken top players going to the absolute brink to bring him down this year. You can nitpick any old thing in matches of such fine margins. It's not like he hits a physical wall halfway through a slam and then gets routed in straights. He's right there, and even with the physical issues he's suffered this year, if just a little bit of luck went the opposite way in either of those slam losses the entire tenor of this conversation would be completely different. It's very small margins, and yeah, his physicality may be what's stopped him from already sitting on three slams this year, but it's not some massive weakness in his game or he wouldn't be as dominant as he's been lately in the first place.

 

[BigThreeForever]

Harder to stay fit when you're built like this and do nothing to improve it.

 

[legcramp]

Musetti unfortunately has problems with his brains. At least Sinner Will be healthy most of the time. There’s no Cure for stupid.

 

[Sudacafan]

Sinner's issues haven't been worse than Del Potro's, for the time being.

 

[jl809]

Hmm. another withdrawal for sick boy, sad times. Hope he gets well soon

 

[socallefty]

Yes, the ailments will continue. He should be beaten with a bamboo cane like the good old days till his health (and morale) improves

 

[nolefam_2024]

Yes, the ailments will continue. He should be beaten with a bamboo cane like the good old days till his health (and moral) improves

Agreed

Need to be far fitter far faster. He could have skipped 5 masters it wouldn't have mattered but skipping Olympics which comes once only in 4 years?

This is his worst one yet.

 

[socallefty]

Agreed

Need to be far fitter far faster. He could have skipped 5 masters it wouldn't have mattered but skipping Olympics which comes once only in 4 years?

This is his worst one yet.

Stick legs will remain stick legs - he doesn’t look like he has a man’s body yet.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Stick legs will remain stick legs - he doesn’t look like he has a man’s body yet.

1 more year. He will be same as as Djokovic 2011

 

[socallefty]

1 more year. He will be same as as Djokovic 2011

Djokovic never looked frail physically and his talent jumped off the pages as a teen in a way that never happened with Sinner when I saw him play. Just had allergy/respiratory issues that he never got treated by a western doctor for. Alcaraz is the 1st player who looked impressive in the same way as a teen like Nadal and Djokovic, When I watched him play in person, Sinner has looked lIke the likes of Medvedev/Zverev rather than a transcendental star like Djokovic, Nadal or Alcaraz. Never understood the fuss or hype about him on this forum by a few crazy fans. He is good enough to be #1 for a while like Murray, Hewitt, Medvedev etc., but he is not going to be a Big 3 kind of player.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

I’d question his fitness and diet.
If I eat like crap or don’t workout for a bit - I feel Ill on court especially at a level where the match is a grind.

Somethings off. He clearly wasn’t fit enough to go 5 sets with medvedev recently. And in AO had medvedev not played 3 matches til 3 am - I don’t think he wins that grand slam.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Djokovic never looked frail physically and his talent jumped off the pages as a teen in a way that never happened with Sinner when I saw him play. Just had allergy/respiratory issues that he never got treated by a western doctor for. Alcaraz is the 1st player who looked impressive in the same way as a teen like Nadal and Djokovic, When I watched him play in person, Sinner has looked lIke the likes of Medvedev/Zverev rather than a transcendental star like Djokovic, Nadal or Alcaraz. Never understood the fuss or hype about him on this forum by a few crazy fans. He is good enough to be #1 for a while like Murray, Hewitt, Medvedev etc., but he is not going to be a Big 3 kind of player.

I disagree but who knows the future.

 

[Deleted member 810491]

Alcaraz can afford to get injured regularly, because he's won 4 slams since 2022 US Open, while being injured regularly.
Maybe the injuries are a good thing, and keep him fresh.
Anyway, they fixed the elbow problem, or maybe he's just playing less golf...

 

[FeroBango]

It's the Sinner USO