Have you ever wondered who owns what on the ATP circuit ?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Otacon, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. Otacon

    Otacon Professional

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    The limited power of tennis associations result in a profesionnal tennis structure consisting of hodgepodge of varios organizations with different juridictions. Players' groups, tournament owners and sponsors exercise control. Companies such as IMG and Octagon frequently own tournaments, and at the same time represent players, as well as sit on the tour boards.

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    The ATP, like the WTA, is a hybrid of labor and management under one roof: the tournaments and players each get three board votes, with the tour president holding the seventh and potentially tie-breaking vote.

    Current Board of Directors

    Chairman
    Chris Kermode

    Player Representatives
    Roger Rasheed
    Justin Gimelstob
    Giorgio di Palermo

    Tournament Representatives
    Gavin Forbes
    Mark Webster
    Charles Smith

    It's been reported that players on the ATP tour receive between 15 and 28 percent of revenue from tournaments, with the cut reportedly even less from lucrative Grand Slam events.

    That pales in comparison with leagues like the NBA, where players receive between 49 and 51 percent of basketball-related income in the current seven-year agreement. The minimum salary for an NBA rookie this season is $815,615, while a 10-year-veteran is guaranteed $2.2 million.

    Yes, the take for players at major tournaments has increased in recent years, with this year's winners at the Australian Open receiving $3.1 million (an increase from $2.7 million from last year) and first-round losers walking away with $34,500 this year. But when you're at a non-major, you don't get that kind of money for just showing up.

    And if you're a player ranked outside the top 100 in singles (and the top 50 in doubles), playing tennis continues to be a struggle. Between flights, hotels gear and training facilities, the hardships of professional tennis players who exist outside the limelight have been well-documented.

    Do you think it is acceptable that professional players continue to not have their own union defending their interests ?

    ATP's No.1 asset is professional players, and as long as they are not better represented, tennis will remain a niche sport.
     
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  2. EloQuent

    EloQuent Legend

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    hey do you have this in like a google doc you can share instead of just an image? If not can you email it to me?
     
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  3. Otacon

    Otacon Professional

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    vive le beau jeu ! and EloQuent like this.
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  4. ojo rojo

    ojo rojo Hall of Fame

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  5. Hydrocella

    Hydrocella Hall of Fame

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    What exactly does the ATP do? It hardly seems to have any voice with any of the four major tournaments. It can’t negotiate broadcasting rights for them. Determine wild cards policy, or even seeding. Or dress code.

    Yep, players need to band together as a union. And someone needs to set up an official league. The league ought to determine what tournaments do, not the other way around.

    An individual sport doesn’t have to exist in an individual bubble. It’s time tennis got organized.

    Great thread.
     
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  6. EloQuent

    EloQuent Legend

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  7. EloQuent

    EloQuent Legend

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    Fedr
     
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  8. Bartelby

    Bartelby Talk Tennis Guru

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    The ATP performed a service for players by disrupting the ITF and national tennis associations, but the disruption needs disruption.
     
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  9. paranoidandroid

    paranoidandroid G.O.A.T.

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  10. Otacon

    Otacon Professional

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    - 1972 : ATP formed
    - 1973 : Wimbledon boycott freed players from ITF control.
    - 1990 : Moore/Solomon driven move got rid of ITF from Players Council.
    - ???? : Independent players movement to get rid of tournaments from ATP board.
     
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  11. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    This line of discussion has been leveled a few times and it needs pointing out that you can't compare the NBA to tennis in terms of percentage of revenue which makes its way to the athletes. This is because every single ATP event is a distinct, individual event which has to do its own marketing, hold the event itself, and do it for 1, sometimes 2 weeks of the year. NBA by contrast is a single competition where the marketing is mostly grouped, and the individual venues - despite marketing locally - get 20+ weeks a years guaranteed use to cover costs on a fixed asset. The only things they pay more for the more they use the venues are things they sell (food, merchandise) which are all sold (I assume) for a profit.

    This means the NBA is probably a couple of hundred per cent more efficient to run than a sole tennis event when you compare the costs vs revenue ratio. That's why there is so much more money available for the athletes - not because tennis is (necessarily) ripping players off.
     
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  12. EloQuent

    EloQuent Legend

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    I'm no expert but tennis events take place once a year on grounds that need year round maintenance and employees. The single event has to cover all that overhead before there's any profit and prizes. Then, as has been mentioned, there are more advertising costs. You also have to take into account that the number we hear about is just the prize money and not attendance fees (I think).

    So maybe players should get more money. But it's not so easy to compare to other sports.
     
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  13. Zoolander

    Zoolander Hall of Fame

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    You can be sure that if someone like Djokovic formed a players union as has been threatened, they would only care about the top playrs getting even MORE money to add to their squillions, and not about Joe Blow ranked 195 who lives out of a van trying to scrape by on the tour.....
     
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  14. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    You can be sure, if you had bothered to listen to Djokovic, that his view is the opposite of what you're sure about.

    He was championing the growth of the prize pool per se, nothing to do with the top players at all. He was using his clout to get the ball rolling and it will have had some effect already too - tournaments will now be looking at their finances/modeling to see how they can lead the pack and stay ahead of the (likely growing) issue. The threat alone from a top player and the potential for embarrassing public discussion about it is a great incentive for tournaments to take a look at how they run things.
     
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  15. EloQuent

    EloQuent Legend

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    of course, because why would djokovic lie?
     
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  16. Bartelby

    Bartelby Talk Tennis Guru

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    We can actually be sure of the exact opposite. In order to gain support, such a proposal needs to be inclusive and not be susceptible to the accusation you are making.

     
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  17. Bartelby

    Bartelby Talk Tennis Guru

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    The recent prize money increments may also have had a little to do with Roddick's agitation and this may be Djokovic's purpose given a union is a long-term possibility.

     
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  18. AiRFederer

    AiRFederer Hall of Fame

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  19. titoelcolombiano

    titoelcolombiano Hall of Fame

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    Is it worth having teired tennis leagues where you can group players and tournaments together in a coherant organised fashion? E.g. the top 128 players in the world play set events each year like say a formula 1 calendar. These could be the four slams, the nine M1000 events and the WTF. The second teir league could play the ATP 500 series tournaments and the third teir league could play the ATP 250 series tournaments and so on down the line.

    There could be some sort of promotion / relegation system for players between the leagues (or qualifying system) but once the line-up is set for the year it is set. Any injury withdrawals are covered by a bye in the first round. Player's do not play tournaments that are not in their league for that season.

    This system can help the ATP sell sponsorship and TV rights to each league and can help limit and condense the players' schedules. The Davis Cup and Olympics will then have some special significance as players from different leagues will face off and could create some nice stories.

    I know there are drawbacks to this system but there will be drawbacks to any system.
     
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  20. EloQuent

    EloQuent Legend

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    That's pretty much the system already to an extent. If you make it rigid you're not going to get fans paying to see players 129-200
     
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  21. titoelcolombiano

    titoelcolombiano Hall of Fame

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    Well something needs to change - I guess there will be multiple system proposals, all with their weaknesses and strengths
     
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  22. Zoolander

    Zoolander Hall of Fame

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    Hmm what Djoko SAYS and what he MEANS may be 2 different things. If such a union happened and the players negotiated an agreement where the top players who already earn big bucks got nothing extra, and extra money was only distributed among the lower ranked players who lose in the first rounds of a tourney, then I might believe him.

    But it wont happen like that, will it? Top players will say that they are the big drawcards people pay to see, we are the ones who win and generate revenue etc etc and they will be the big beneficiaries. And then they will tell poor Joe Blow (whos now slipped to 235 in the world) look! We got you an extra grand! While Djoko pockets an extra 900K for winning. Thats the thing, tourneys only have to keep the top players happy, because no one cares what Joe Blow thinks when he struggles to even make a draw, and no one wants to interview him, do they?
     
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  23. Bartelby

    Bartelby Talk Tennis Guru

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    When there is a union or association, the members usually have a say on who is elected as their representatives and on what agreements get signed off on.

    There is no reason to believe Djokovic's proposal would be any different.
     
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  24. Harry_Wild

    Harry_Wild Legend

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    Must be profitable to own tennis tournament franchise! Kind like own NFL or MLB team!
     
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  25. Gary Duane

    Gary Duane G.O.A.T.

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    Pretty much tells the whole story, doesn't it?
     
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  26. MLRoy

    MLRoy Professional

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  27. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    I have always been curious about this number..that is crazy. Players could argue that prize money needs to be DOUBLED at all levels.
     
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  28. PMChambers

    PMChambers Hall of Fame

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    Which players The top players IE Federer Nadal often get signifigantly more appearance money than prize money on offer at 250 &500. Why would they want prize money over guarantee appearance money. Mr 20+ can boycott whatever he choosed and no onr will listen. The players with power are already well buttered with gravy
     
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  29. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    Which players? All players.
    What do appearance fees have to do with anything? Why would top players not also enjoy increased prize money on top of appearance fees?
    Who said anything about a boycott?
    Fed Nadal Djokovic have all spoke favorably about more $$ for lower ranked players and better player representation.

    In short, not sure what you're on about. 15% of revenue, if accurate, is an absurd figure and players should work for more wherever/however possible.
     
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