Having a 4 Star (or 3 star) 6th Grader (or 7th grader) repeat their grade?

H

hound 109

Semi-Pro
I'm not familiar with kids over 15.

But i am aware that of the top 8 kids in our section (in my kid's grade)......4 of them "dropped down" from higher grades in the past 2-3 months. (granted....maybe TRN had their info wrong.....but ALL of them are 12-18 mos. older than the "average" 6th grader.)

Two of them are a good 18 mos older than my kid (who's a Jan. kid in the middle of the age group)....& the other two are 12 - 16 mos. older. The reason i know this is that our section posts the "age up" lists each month. So we KNOW how old the kids are when they age up.


Maybe the drop down of middle schoolers....say from 7th to 6th grade (or 8th to 7th) is a recent trend BECAUSE of the new rule (forcing kids to finish HS in 4 years)? All i know is that for these 4 kids:

- One went from a 2 star 8th grader to a high 4 star 6th grader.
- One went from a 4 star 7th grader to a Blue Chip 6th grader.
- One went from a 3 star 7th grader to a 5 star 6th grader.
- One went from a high 2 star 7th grader to a low 4 star 6th grader.

Who knows how this will all play out (6 years to HS graduation). But these 4 kids will be 19 y/o HS seniors & a couple will be 20 y/o freshman. I know 2 of these are "academy" kids.....possibly home schooled.....not sure about the other two.

My kid only plays them now when he's playing up. Since they have been playing in 14s since aging up 6 - 12 mos ago. (& aren't allowed to play 12s where most 6th graders are located).

I'm not stating it's a "widespread problem". Just sharing info that i observe. If i ever decided to take my kid the "home schooled" route (in the next 2 years), maybe I'd drop him down a grade too. Doesn't sound like there's any reason why one shouldn't?
 
T

tennis5

Professional
Thanks for starting this thread.

I do wish that Tennis Recruiting Network would list the birthdate on the player's page...

If, after all, they list the:
high school, homeschooling agency or tennis academy,
and also the town, and state,
I am not sure why the birthdate would not be included too in order to round out the recruitment's profile.

If a coach wants a full picture, it most likely would be helpful to know is this a 17 year old senior or a 20 year old senior.

On the plus side, I do notice that TRN is open to suggestions and has made changes already by changing the stars to twice a year.
 
S

Sunbeam

New User
Yes, grading down your kid is a very common and tactical move. The way things are set up, one can't argue with it's logic.

TRN does not take into account age in it's data. If you grade down your player, his/her star rating will go up by one or two.

Over time this will affect your child's tennis future in so many ways.... the child will look like he/she is playing up, prestige (invoking fear in the opponents who look you up...kids will be kids), ultimately recruitment = $.

It may not be fair, but you can either fight the system or work within the system
 
H

hound 109

Semi-Pro
tennis5 said:
Thanks for starting this thread.

I do wish that Tennis Recruiting Network would list the birthdate on the player's page...

If, after all, they list the:
high school, homeschooling agency or tennis academy,
and also the town, and state,
I am not sure why the birthdate would not be included too in order to round out the recruitment's profile.

If a coach wants a full picture, it most likely would be helpful to know is this a 17 year old senior or a 20 year old senior.

On the plus side, I do notice that TRN is open to suggestions and has made changes already by changing the stars to twice a year.
Click to expand...

I can see why the birthdate might be an issue.

But the Month & Year of a Junior USTA competitor is already public knowledge (with the monthly age up list that is sent out).

Providing the month & year would be just as good as the "birth date".....& it would be good info for all....especially college coaches.
 
B

BMC9670

Hall of Fame
hound 109 said:
4 of them "dropped down" from higher grades in the past 2-3 months. (granted....maybe TRN had their info wrong.....but ALL of them are 12-18 mos. older than the "average" 6th grader.)
Click to expand...

Sunbeam said:
Yes, grading down your kid is a very common and tactical move. The way things are set up, one can't argue with it's logic.
Click to expand...

I may be naive here, but are you saying people are actually having their kids repeat grades in order to improve their TRN ranking? Really?
 
R

racket-e

New User
Well, I am personally very young for my grade. I am a junior but I still have 5 full months of 16s. I could easily be a sophomore but from my experience at my age it does not really matter nearly as much as it does from 6th to 7th grade. For example I know a top 10 6th grader in the country and he routinely loses to 7th graders outside the top 100. This does not happen say between top 10 juniors and outside top 100 seniors. So, yes, right now they have an advantage, but this advantage gets less and less and by the time real recruitment comes around it will be minimal.

Plus, colleges will know that the kid is say 19, so they know their room for growth is less than a kid whos 17 since even 17 year olds are not completely matured. Is it really worth it to lose 1 year of your life in education just to get a little advantage in tennis recruitment? Well, I guess thats up to the parents although in my opinion definetely not (though I do find my self wishing I was a sophomore sometimes).
 
C

cmb

Semi-Pro
you dont have to actually "fail" the grade either...I mean you could just take a year off from school right?
 
C

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
The portion of this discussion that deals with what TRN should try to do about the situation has already been held in greater detail. Search the forum.

The only recent case I know of in Virginia involved a kid who was already too young for his grade, so no one objected to him repeating a grade. He was two months older than my son, but was two grades ahead. Now he is only one grade ahead.

Repeating a grade so that you are 18 months older than other kids in your grade is sad.
 
H

hound 109

Semi-Pro
BMC9670 said:
I may be naive here, but are you saying people are actually having their kids repeat grades in order to improve their TRN ranking? Really?
Click to expand...

No.

What i am saying is that for some reason the occasional 6th or 7th grader will repeat a grade. (or maybe he/she repeated a grade earlier in life).


If this kid happens to be a tennis player, then TRN will report a new ranking in the lower grade.

If this kid graduates HS, then he likely will do so at age 19.
 
H

hound 109

Semi-Pro
Excellent post. Thanks for sharing your thoughts as a Junior.

racket-e said:
Well, I am personally very young for my grade. I am a junior but I still have 5 full months of 16s. I could easily be a sophomore but from my experience at my age it does not really matter nearly as much as it does from 6th to 7th grade. For example I know a top 10 6th grader in the country and he routinely loses to 7th graders outside the top 100.

I've also observed this.

This does not happen say between top 10 juniors and outside top 100 seniors. So, yes, right now they have an advantage, but this advantage gets less and less and by the time real recruitment comes around it will be minimal.

Interesting perspective. I wonder if others believe this to be the case most of the time?

Plus, colleges will know that the kid is say 19, so they know their room for growth is less than a kid whos 17 since even 17 year olds are not completely matured.

Again.....great take. & I'm not sure how a college coach would view this scenario. Maybe different coaches would have different preferences?

Is it really worth it to lose 1 year of your life in education just to get a little advantage in tennis recruitment? Well, I guess thats up to the parents although in my opinion definetely not (though I do find my self wishing I was a sophomore sometimes).
Click to expand...

racket-e....actually the kid would be gaining an extra year, not losing one. So given your situation & perspective....imagine that you were a sophomore in HS (instead of a junior in HS)....& your TRN ranking was 1.5 - 2 levels higher?

How would things be different at the club (or rec center) that you're training at? How would it be different on your HS team? How would it be different (if you were 1.5 -2 stars higher)....to the kids across the net? How would it be different socially....if you were an old sophomore & not a young junior?

Thanks for your great post racket-e.
 
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T

TennisCoachFLA

Banned
Oh yes, it is done on purpose for tennis.

One of the tip offs is when you see Laurel Online School as the boy's school. Several kids on TRN have dropped out of regular school and do the online thing. I noticed several boys who were going to be almost 20 and still 'seniors' in high school.

One boy had a write up when he was 12 about how he was teaching tennis at a country club with his dad, super smart at school. Now he is 18 and only a junior in his online school. He must have gotten very dumb the last few years to have slowed down that much in his schooling!

I asked Dallas to put age on the profile so it jumped out. If you see the 4th ranked boy is 16 years old yet the 3rd ranked boy is 18, that should jump out.

It won't stop it and college recruiters certainly find out the ages.....but there should be some stigma attached to it on TRN.
 
B

BMC9670

Hall of Fame
TennisCoachFLA said:
Oh yes, it is done on purpose for tennis.

One of the tip offs is when you see Laurel Online School as the boy's school. Several kids on TRN have dropped out of regular school and do the online thing. I noticed several boys who were going to be almost 20 and still 'seniors' in high school.

One boy had a write up when he was 12 about how he was teaching tennis at a country club with his dad, super smart at school. Now he is 18 and only a junior in his online school. He must have gotten very dumb the last few years to have slowed down that much in his schooling!

I asked Dallas to put age on the profile so it jumped out. If you see the 4th ranked boy is 16 years old yet the 3rd ranked boy is 18, that should jump out.

It won't stop it and college recruiters certainly find out the ages.....but there should be some stigma attached to it on TRN.
Click to expand...

This then begs the question of the pace of home/online schooling. Does it follow the same pace or grade level as traditional schooling? I can see a 15 to 18 year old home schooled serious player taking more time to complete an education with all the training and traveling. But if that's the case, it certainly skews the "grade" ranking on TRN.
 
T

TennisCoachFLA

Banned
BMC9670 said:
This then begs the question of the pace of home/online schooling. Does it follow the same pace or grade level as traditional schooling? I can see a 15 to 18 year old home schooled serious player taking more time to complete an education with all the training and traveling. But if that's the case, it certainly skews the "grade" ranking on TRN.
Click to expand...

I home school and know lots off others who do. Kids in almost every pace are ahead of the others.

In the case of tennis, many times this is done on purpose to allow them to be older.

The interesting thing is the girls who do the home school and online schools move quite fast through the system. Obviously they mature earlier so the parents don't have the incentive to hold them back nearly as much as with the boys.
 
J

justinmadison

Semi-Pro
hound 109 said:
But these 4 kids will be 19 y/o HS seniors & a couple will be 20 y/o freshman
Click to expand...

We are in the process of moving to Stockholm Sweden and the kids here start school at an older age. The HS seniors here are all 19. We were talking to one of the high school counselors and he said the HS clubs pride themselves on their ability to negotiate good happy hour rates and the local pub.

My son is 14 now and will be a sophomore this year. He will turn 18 late in the summer after he graduates from HS. The councilor recommended that we have him retake his freshman year as a 15 year old. I have to admit that I considered the benefit of that from a tennis perspective. My wife thought it was a good idea from an exposure to older peers in his grade and how that might lead him astray.

My son absolutely vetoed the idea. He pointed out that he has almost all A’s and is taking the hardest classes he can. He felt like repeating a grade was a failure and was adamantly opposed to it. I have to wonder if the other kids who went the repeat a grade route felt the same way.

I do think he is at a disadvantage because we started him so early in school. Looking at his tennis recruiting record he almost always plays against kids in a lower grade. There is a big difference in perception between a low 4 star and a mid to high 5 star.
 
H

hound 109

Semi-Pro
ClarkC said:
The portion of this discussion that deals with what TRN should try to do about the situation has already been held in greater detail. Search the forum.
Click to expand...

Thanks....i did a search & this thread was the best match i came up with.

(The thread focuses in on this topic on Page 4 with Dallas at TRN's comment on post #71):

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=357224&highlight=TRN&page=4

Lots of comments from many of us in this thread (including some great comments from Dallas). He made it clear that TRN is grade focused (& not age focused) & that it's mission is to provide info for College Coaches.

But what wasn't answered.... & it seems like an easy fix.....Is why not put the month/year (of birth) on the players profile?

& if TRN can't (because the info isn't available)....or won't. Then why not have a place on the profile so the kid (or parent) can enter this info themselves??

Good info for the college coach (or academy director) to have.....that could be entered on the profile page along with their coach/training center, favorite shoes & preferred racquet.
 
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A

andfor

Legend
hound 109 said:
Thanks....i did a search & this thread was the best match i came up with.

(The thread focuses in on this topic on Page 4 with Dallas at TRN's comment on post #71):

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=357224&highlight=TRN&page=4

Lots of comments from many of us in this thread (including some great comments from Dallas). He made it clear that TRN is grade focused (& not age focused) & that it's mission is to provide info for College Coaches.

But what wasn't answered.... & it seems like an easy fix.....Is why not put the month/date (of birth) on the players profile?

& if TRN can't (because the info isn't available)....or won't. Then why not have a place on the profile so the kid (or parent) can enter this info themselves??

Good info for the college coach (or academy director) to have.....that could be entered on the profile page along with their coach/training center, favorite shoes & preferred racquet.
Click to expand...

Looks like the problem is more widespread than I thought. I concede. However, and as I like to guess, I bet not posting the birthdate has something to do with protecting the child's identity from identity thieves.

Dallas Oliver would be able to answer why the birthdates are not published........I hope.
 
H

hound 109

Semi-Pro
andfor said:
Looks like the problem is more widespread than I thought. I concede. However, and as I like to guess, I bet not posting the birthdate has something to do with protecting the child's identity from identity thieves.

Dallas Oliver would be able to answer why the birthdates are not published........I hope.
Click to expand...

rats.....i meant to say month & year.....not birthdate. DON'T need birthdate.

Month Year....is what the USTA sections provide indirectly when a kid ages up.

Month Year wouldn't put an identity at risk.

Month Year is what should be considered.....not the birthdate.

Month Year is what Dallas should comment on.....or TRN should have a field for entering. (not birthdate)

:)
 
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T

TennisCoachFLA

Banned
hound 109 said:
i meant to say month & year.....not birthdate. DON'T need birthdate.

Month Year....is what the USTA sections provide indirectly when a kid ages up.

Month Year wouldn't put an identity at risk.

Month Year is what should be considered.....not the birthdate.

Month Year is what Dallas should comment on.....or TRN should have a field for entering. (not birthdate)

:)
Click to expand...

Agree 100%. I must admit I was disappointed in Dallas's stance on this one. One guy I pointed out to him was ridiculously flaunting the online school thing.

TRN nailed Shishkina the second she took sponsorship money, they should put the same focus on this issue.
 
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T

tennis5

Professional
hound 109 said:
rats.....i meant to say month & year.....not birthdate. DON'T need birthdate.

Month Year....is what the USTA sections provide indirectly when a kid ages up.

Month Year wouldn't put an identity at risk.

Month Year is what should be considered.....not the birthdate.

Month Year is what Dallas should comment on.....or TRN should have a field for entering. (not birthdate)

:)
Click to expand...

Birth month/year is given on the USTA site by looking up when the kid ages out.
 
T

TennisCoachFLA

Banned
tennis5 said:
Birth month/year is given on the USTA site by looking up when the kid ages out.
Click to expand...

I think that was his point to privacy advocates, that the info is already available.

We just think it should be on the TRN profile and easily seen just for the integrity of it. When checking the rankings it would be nice to easily know if any boys are way older than others.
 
T

tennis5

Professional
BMC9670 said:
This then begs the question of the pace of home/online schooling. Does it follow the same pace or grade level as traditional schooling? I can see a 15 to 18 year old home schooled serious player taking more time to complete an education with all the training and traveling. But if that's the case, it certainly skews the "grade" ranking on TRN.
Click to expand...

Some misc. comments/observations:

Not to go off on a tangent here,
but homeschooling is less hours a day than regular school and homework.

Leave for school at 7:30 am
Start school at 8:00 am
Home by 4:00 pm
4-5 hours of hw

Not to generalize, but I have observed talking to tennis parents that homeschooling seems to work well for the majority of the girls.
The girls are more dedicated and devoted to their schoolwork,
and will put in the time and effort.

The boys while not lazy with their tennis, are with the homeschooling.
 
T

tennis5

Professional
TR.net feels that their responsibility is to make sure that the tennis player is in the right grade. For example, that a 11th grader isn't pretending to be a 9th grader. In regards to that, they do an excellent job and catch kids who are lying about their grade.

The problem is the parents who are leaving the kids back a grade and the home schoolers ( sorry, if I am offending anyone here) who really can be any grade they want.

I think it would make the coaches job easier to evaluate a player quickly if they knew whether it was a 17 year old who still was maturing or a 20 year old....
 
C

chalkflewup

Hall of Fame
tennis5 said:
Some misc. comments/observations:

Not to go off on a tangent here,
but homeschooling is less hours a day than regular school and homework.

Leave for school at 7:30 am
Start school at 8:00 am
Home by 4:00 pm
4-5 hours of hw

Not to generalize, but I have observed talking to tennis parents that homeschooling seems to work well for the majority of the girls.
The girls are more dedicated and devoted to their schoolwork,
and will put in the time and effort.

The boys while not lazy with their tennis, are with the homeschooling.
Click to expand...

LOL! You are generalizing! This has nothing to do with gender or time spent in the classroom. It's all about parenting and teaching accountability, regardless of whether it's traditional education or alternative schooling.
 
T

tennis5

Professional
chalkflewup said:
LOL! You are generalizing! This has nothing to do with gender or time spent in the classroom. It's all about parenting and teaching accountability, regardless of whether it's traditional education or alternative schooling.
Click to expand...

Maybe, I am generalizing, but all of the comments are based on talking to parents at tournaments ( informal survey).

Based on that...
I am not a fan of homeschooling for boys.
( unless for religious reasons or dangerous high school situations)

Every parent of every homeschooled boy describes a situation where the boys are not enthusiastic about doing the work or the projects. Instead of the teacher nagging them, ( really embarrassing them in class), the parent takes on the role.

My concern as a parent would be an injury that prevents them from playing college tennis and then they have received an education that might not hold up in an academic college.

I know this is a tennis site, and I hate to add a dash of reality here, but these kids are going to grow up in a very challenging job environment where education is going to be key.
 
B

BSPE84

Semi-Pro
mojojojo said:
If you are raising a player that wants to play at a top tier D1 school or go pro, whether a boy or girl - distance learning/online is a great thing (versus homeschooling with mom teaching calculus - can't endorse that at my house!) These student athletes are usually much more disciplined and focused than the average student because they have to teach themselves calculus and physics from the same text books your high school uses. They take the same AP tests in the spring and SAT tests to get in as any other student, so they have to learn the material. Tennis does not take the stereotyped "dumb athlete" - these kids have it going on in all aspects of their life. I know many boys that went the distance learning/online route at Duke, USC, Stanford, Baylor, Georgia, BYU, Notre Dame, etc., and the Ivys. What this non alternative approach gives you is the flexibility to travel and play when you want and concentrate your school work when you want/can. It takes extreme discipline to manage your studies around a travel schedule. That is why the top tier school love these kids, they know how to time manage better than anyone else and they understand the responsibility these student-athletes carry to finish their work and maintain those top 25 rankings. Most prominent high schools aren't going to grant even a top 10 player in the country the time off a tennis player needs to obtain a top ranking, so this is the only way to go for those high achievers. If the boy or girl can't handle this type of discipline and responsibility they shouldn't do it. Nor should they consider playing at a top tier D1 school.
Click to expand...

The boys you made reference to may be able to time manage and self learn, but I would be curious to find out what they actually majored in when they got to college. The #1 NCAA mens lists his major as "Human Performance" at USC :confused:. I've heard of USC's Kaes van't Hof becoming a successful Wall Street analyst (Accounting major?), but he's probably more the exception than the norm.

I believe it is important to instill disciplined study habits while in grade school if the parents are serious about junior earning a meaningful college degree. In my view, that is simply not something distance learning/home schooling can provide. A kid just cannot spend 6-8 hours a day practicing and have the same state of mind as a regular kid to tackle calculus or physics so he can later major in a technical field like engineering. It's just not going to happen, something WILL give eventually for most of them.

Getting that tennis scholarship may actually end up being more of a curse for some after the four years are up.
 
S

slice bh compliment

G.O.A.T.
^You don't get it do you?^
Here is whut I no, as a pretty high-level sports parent and former coach:

1] Tennis is moar important than school.
2] Having your son be a 5 star recruit and GETTING that full ride is more importent than his actual education.
3] The college degree, whether he learned anything or not, is what we look at over whut the kid will actually do when he is out of college. Nobody looks that far ahead, man. I mean, I don't know what I'm gonna be having for dinner Sunday night, how am I gonna worry about my kid's gonna do when he's all growd up? As a parent, I just want that bumper sticker that says he goes to college. The zero tuition bill's going to be a nice bonis.

BSPE84 is a square, man. Way to concerned about what happens after collage.

chalkflewup said:
When it comes to junior tennis, nothing, I mean nothing surprises me.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/news/story?id=2360023
Click to expand...

Though this man is french, he shows a uniquely American commitment to sports. I applaud his courage and his will -- a beacon of light in a dark sea of weak-azz fatherhood.
 
K

klu375

Semi-Pro
slice bh compliment said:
^You don't get it do you?^
Here is whut I no, as a pretty high-level sports parent and former coach:

1] Tennis is moar important than school.
2] Having your son be a 5 star recruit and GETTING that full ride is more importent than his actual education.
3] The college degree, whether he learned anything or not, is what we look at over whut the kid will actually do when he is out of college. Nobody looks that far ahead, man. I mean, I don't know what I'm gonna be having for dinner Sunday night, how am I gonna worry about my kid's gonna do when he's all growd up? As a parent, I just want that bumper sticker that says he goes to college. The zero tuition bill's going to be a nice bonis.

BSPE84 is a square, man. Way to concerned about what happens after collage.

Though this man is french, he shows a uniquely American commitment to sports. I applaud his courage and his will -- a beacon of light in a dark sea of weak-azz fatherhood.
Click to expand...

Yea, and we want a prestigious collage not just any collage. Preferably Standford.
 
B

BSPE84

Semi-Pro
mojojojo said:
A kid just cannot spend 6-8 hours a day practicing and have the same state of mind as a regular kid to tackle calculus or physics so he can later major in a technical field like engineering. It's just not going to happen, something WILL give eventually for most of them.

Getting that tennis scholarship may actually end up being more of a curse for some after the four years are up.


I think we are comparing two different players, "regular" players and the top players. Most kids can't be a 5 star or blue chip either. The difference between 5 star and blue chip is HUGE. But the ones that do reach the top and excel in school are exceptional people, and they are out there. I didn't know many top achieving tennis kids that wanted to spend their life in a cubicle doing engineering work like a certain group of parents tell them they are doing at age 12. I did not plan my child's major, but if he wanted to major in business, zookeeping or surfing for goodness sake, it is his life. btw, he is third year pre-med playing D1 tennis, 2-3 in the line-up at a top 20 school. I think he was able to work through "homeschooling" high school calculus and physics, in addition to organic chem lab in college. However, it is not for the regular or average 3-4 star player, or the weak or timid for sure.
Click to expand...

Again, I don't deny that there are kids out there who can excel in both, I just think they are the outliers. I used engineering as an example because you made reference to physics and calculus. Making sure kids are adequately prepared academically for college is not about picking a life career for a 12-year old; it is about responsible parenting, pure and simple :).

And btw, I would go out on a limb and say those distance learning schools would all go bankrupt if it were only those outlier kids enrolled in their program (no weak and timid or 3-4 stars :oops:). Nobody in their right mind does distance learning for academic merits, so that leaves the rich albeit misguided parents of "regular" players to support their existence. And of a handful of tennis home schooled 12-14 year olds I know around here, I am certain that whichever college major they choose won't have calculus, physics, and O chem as freshman prerequisites...
 
T

tennis5

Professional
mojojojo said:
.... ( Online students) they have to teach themselves calculus and physics from the same text books your high school uses. They take the same AP tests in the spring and SAT tests to get in as any other student, so they have to learn the material. .
Click to expand...

There is a difference between learning calculus or biology from a textbook
versus a classroom with lively, engaging discussions, different questions posed from students, and real science labs.

( Many colleges, for example, University of California, do not accept certain online science courses and labs).

Your homeschooler ( online learner ) is studying for the AP tests.

Most high schools don't teach to the AP test, what they offer instead is a rich curriculum,
studying the actual material for the AP test is the student's job during their spare time.

If a student is just memorizing the facts for algebra, bio, or calculus, good luck...

The same student in India already memorized it 100 times over, and we will be outsourcing the job to him.

As our manufacturing base dies out, American ingenuity and creativity are the driving forces in this country, Ipad?

Just because junior at age 12 wants to be a pro and play at the US Open,
doesn't mean that the parents should say, "Ok, we will help you follow your dream."

I was speaking to a former college coach from a southern school who told me about this great kid they had from a Florida academy who dominated in college tennis, but could barely pass his classes.

He really didn't care about the future of this kid, he just used him for tennis.

That is where the parents have to say that unless junior won the 16's Easter Bowl at age 14,
the focus should be on education, not playing 5 hours of tennis a day.

And I don't recall the Ivy's or the select academic colleges accepting many, any tennis online scholars.
 
dallasoliver

dallasoliver

Rookie
tennis5 said:
Thanks for starting this thread.

I do wish that Tennis Recruiting Network would list the birthdate on the player's page...

If, after all, they list the:
high school, homeschooling agency or tennis academy,
and also the town, and state,
I am not sure why the birthdate would not be included too in order to round out the recruitment's profile.

If a coach wants a full picture, it most likely would be helpful to know is this a 17 year old senior or a 20 year old senior.
Click to expand...

I am really busy with the Recruiting Class Rankings right now, so I don't have time to comment fully...

One thing I will say off the top of my head... We DO show birthdates to coaches for all players. We chose to leave birthdate off of the public profile information because it is somewhat sensitive information that is not widely available elsewhere. Same goes for address, etc.

Best regards,
Dallas
 
dallasoliver

dallasoliver

Rookie
hound 109 said:
But i am aware that of the top 8 kids in our section (in my kid's grade)......4 of them "dropped down" from higher grades in the past 2-3 months. (granted....maybe TRN had their info wrong.....but ALL of them are 12-18 mos. older than the "average" 6th grader.)
Click to expand...

A few quick comments...

(1) TRN provides a "provisional grade" (we call it a provisional graduation class) to every player based on birthdate or approximate birthdate. That provisional grade is our best guess using their age - and it seems to be correct around two-thirds of the time. We make a lot of mistakes for kids who have summer birthdates - those kids tend to fluctuate.

When players "link" to their profile, they have the opportunity to correct that graduation date. We do not police the initial setting. We DO police later changes - once a graduation date is set, our policies make it much more difficult to change.

Back to the point... Most players find out about our website during the 12s or 14s - in middle school - and they correct their grade at that point. For that reason, there is a lot of movement (which you are seeing) for the 6th-, 7th-, and 8th-grade classes.

(2) People are welcome to submit what they believe to be fraudulent graduation years to us. We have had few problems with that in the past, and so we have been able to keep up with the volume. We have required documentation from the school of players' graduation year in some cases.

(3) As for the "grading down" issue, I do not think there is much we can do there. It seems like a legal thing to do, although it (obviously) does not seem to be in the child's best interests. That strategy will actually be detrimental to a player's TRN ranking in the long run - once they turn 19 and cannot play junior tournaments, their ranking will start to drop, and their record will be completely blank if they turn 20.

Best,
Dallas
 
dallasoliver

dallasoliver

Rookie
hound 109 said:
But what wasn't answered.... & it seems like an easy fix.....Is why not put the month/year (of birth) on the players profile?

& if TRN can't (because the info isn't available)....or won't. Then why not have a place on the profile so the kid (or parent) can enter this info themselves??
Click to expand...

We will consider this one again. Month and year is certainly better than birthdate (which our lawyer friends tell us not to do).

One thing that everyone has to realize is that we have a lot of legal exposure. We get calls/emails weekly from people who threaten to sue us for what we do at TRN - hurting their kids' futures, etc. Most of them are frivolous, but there are a lot of tennis parents who are lawyers out there. We just don't have time for that - we are small and a real lawsuit with some merit would kill us. Our strategy to minimize our exposure is to not to cross any lines... indeed, we try to make sure that we never even APPROACH the lines.

Best,
Dallas
 
dallasoliver

dallasoliver

Rookie
hound 109 said:
Month Year....is what the USTA sections provide indirectly when a kid ages up.

Month Year wouldn't put an identity at risk.

Month Year is what should be considered.....not the birthdate.

Month Year is what Dallas should comment on.....or TRN should have a field for entering. (not birthdate)
Click to expand...

Again, will run this by our lawyer friends. (We do not actually pay lawyers - we have some friends that we can run things by.)

Best,
Dallas
 
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