Having a hard time finding affordable instruction

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FatalStroke

New User
I started playing tennis last summer as a replacement for martial arts. Im quite used to teacher driven sports in this respect, some things cant simply be learned by just trial and error. I have been searching for an instructor since then unsuccessfully. I have found some group instruction, which begins soon, but 1 hour per week of shared instruction time doesnt seem significant to me. I've tried to double on these classes, getting them from two different local clubs, but one of the clubs cant get a class together, so im stuck with just the one.
Im located in cleveland ohio and would appreciate tips or maybe ill luck out and find one here.
 
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LeeD

Bionic Poster
Already hit the classified's for tennis instruction?
Hit the local college, approach the player's and ask if they want to teach for a little money, like 20/hour for a start, then 30/per if it works out.
Go to local tennis courts that have lots of players, ask them who teach's.
Some sports, you don't have ANY instruction, like surfing or motorcross.
Tennis, you need to play peers a lot, get instruction maybe one in 5 days of playing.
But some people are different, and need a coach on their sidelines for all competitive play.
 
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FatalStroke

New User
I've made huge progress using youtube videos and playing/practicing alot but im hungry for the next level.

I have searched google and craigslist religously for instruction. Found one coach but he is a couple hours away.
 
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FatalStroke

New User
Moveforwardalways said:
You are in Cleveland, Ohio, a metro of over 2 million in population, and you can't find a tennis teaching pro? Really?
Click to expand...

Idk quite the tone youre using but yea, thats the jist of it. I have the option to pay 70$ /hr at the local club, cant afford that. I have found group classes and signed up but doubt that will be enough for me, its a class for total beginners, im closing on a year of playing and starting to challenge rec players with many years experience.
 
wihamilton

wihamilton

Hall of Fame
Hey FS,

Try:

PlayYourCourt.com

They're basically the Uber of tennis - coach will come to you!

Hope that helps,

Will
 
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RetroSpin

Hall of Fame
This is a problem. I would say check craigslist. You can probably find someone who teaches on a public court and will charge 40-50/hr, which is about the bottom of the barrel for decent coaching.

Let me ask, what would you consider a fair price for one on one coaching? What would you pay for martial arts instruction?
 
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FatalStroke

New User
RetroSpin said:
This is a problem. I would say check craigslist. You can probably find someone who teaches on a public court and will charge 40-50/hr, which is about the bottom of the barrel for decent coaching.

Let me ask, what would you consider a fair price for one on one coaching? What would you pay for martial arts instruction?
Click to expand...

Well,, i trained at one of the best schools in my area, there i was payimg 55 a month for unlimited mat time, 2 hrs of group sparring a week and 4 hours of personal training and instruction per week. The most i ever paid was 110 a month for roughly 12 hrs of group class and unlimited practice time. Im kind of a commodity at schools, joining with years of experience, i make schools look good and was often recruited to teach classes, which wasn't really cool imo.

25/hr seems reasonable, seems at that price point you're making close to 35k a year working full time summers and part time winters.
 
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FatalStroke

New User
Theres nothing on my local craigslist. We have alot of big clubs locally, theres something like 5 indoor tennis clubs within a half hour of me, and none of the rec centers near me has classes, the one that has two indoor courts wants 56/hr just to play there, yea right.
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
If cost is an issue, why not just hit up youtube for free. Or even video tape youself, and throw it on here?

When you pay for a coach, he's looking for 1-2 things per stroke to work on.. I'm sure you can find someone on ttw to give you critical feedback :p
 
LakeSnake

LakeSnake

Professional
Congratulations, you have chosen an expensive sport. Contrast soccer, where 20 people can have a great time with an empty field and a $20 ball.

Our public courts has an "adult academy", two classes a week for $56/month. Other classes for $60/6 week sessions. There are local Meetups for $15/class.

One-on-one instruction there is $60/hour--and that is more or less how it's going to be.
 
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S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
nytennisaddict said:
If cost is an issue, why not just hit up youtube for free. Or even video tape youself, and throw it on here?

When you pay for a coach, he's looking for 1-2 things per stroke to work on.. I'm sure you can find someone on ttw to give you critical feedback :p
Click to expand...

This is the most affordable instruction site.
 
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FatalStroke

New User
Reality bites ehh? Thanks. The group class i signed up for is one of those 60 for 6 hours over 6 weeks classes. I already know 2 people i see semi regularly that are quite good and maybe could teach me, ill ask. It was quite a cheap sport to start, myself and my gf picked up old racquets and decided to go for a bike ride, heh.

Taping myself,,, i could try it, didnt realize it was an option. I do spend hours each week on youtube, its been a great asset.
 
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FatalStroke

New User
tennis_balla said:
If you pay peanuts you get monkeys
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You do get what you pay for, sure, but peanuts in this sport equates to what you pay for top of the line instruction, nationwide, in others. Also i consider full contact fighting a more difficult sport to learn, (try to nail a perfect forestroke while you're getting punched in the liver) and very good teachers are willing to teach in a school with overhead for a fraction of what some of these guys charge to teach outdoors for free. I find it hard to believe people make progress with so little instruction. It would take years of instruction at 2 to 4 hrs per week to get a kid up to competing nationally in martial arts at a black belt level. Perhaps theres less demand for full contact martial arts then tennis, i know i hit a wall where i couldnt go full professional, and i couldnt tolerate training with less then professionals, yet i could never catch up to guys who made a living doing it in the ring.
 
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LeeD

Bionic Poster
It would take at least 4 years of the same amount of instruction in tennis, plus at least 10 hours a week of court practice time, for you or anyone else to make a mid level 4.5 in tennis, and that only if you're a gifted athlete with some superior traits that few around you possess.
Learning contact sports, you are not getting hit full power or speed, until you can compete at higher levels.
And contact sports, you can allow your natural aggression to take over match's, while in tennis, that same aggression often leads to your breakdown and failure.
Remember, Brock Lesner might quickly become fighting champ, but that won't work at all on a tennis court, playing tennis.
 
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FatalStroke

New User
I disagree on the fighting angry thing, its the same as the court really, you will not do something "right" when you do it in a different mind set then you practiced it in. You need the same precision as tennis, and an angry opponent offers the same possibilities, cooler heads often prevail. So far as training at ones level, you'd be correct i guess? Its definitely been hard trying to learn being the only guy without years of experience, the main place i play we always play doubles too,, for a long time i was merely in the way..
 
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LeeD

Bionic Poster
Contact fighting, you can go pretty far, not above maybe lower brown belt, using pure aggression and overpowering your opponent.
Worked in judo for me, in wrestling, in fencing sports (foil, saber, and epee').
In tennis, you are fighting the ball, not the opponent, so it works much less, the pure angry aggression, the animal Tyson like power.
And in tennis, the lob can be a game resetter, patience trying strategy, while in the ring, or mat, there is no running away for sustain periods.
 
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FatalStroke

New User
Its a debatable point, aggression vs cold calculation. To get mad and overpower you have to actually be stronger in the first place, aka you could've done it angry or not, perhaps you had a mental block only overcomed with anger but its not like rage magically increased your true ability. Watch a ten year old wrestle his dad, he can get as mad as he wants, aint gna stop dad.
 
Moveforwardalways

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
LeeD said:
Contact fighting, you can go pretty far, not above maybe lower brown belt, using pure aggression and overpowering your opponent.
Worked in judo for me, in wrestling, in fencing sports (foil, saber, and epee').
In tennis, you are fighting the ball, not the opponent, so it works much less, the pure angry aggression, the animal Tyson like power.
And in tennis, the lob can be a game resetter, patience trying strategy, while in the ring, or mat, there is no running away for sustain periods.
Click to expand...

^^^ best poster on this site ^^^

you start dropping "foil, saber, and epee'" and I give you an unequivocal golf clap.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Swords sports are really fun.
I just wish I had the chance to learn some Katana fighting techniques, a wishful dream now.
I know, I can buy some practice wooden swords, and have at it in my backyard, but with windsurfing, tennis, surfing, biking, no snowboarding this year due to drought, I just don't have the physical stamina to keep up with all my sports.
 
LakeSnake

LakeSnake

Professional
Fatalstroke might be right about the relative costs of instruction, though. My brother-in-law studies judo and the teacher, who apparently was world-class, is a true believer who really just operates the dojo as a way of giving back. Costs are essentially nominal.
 
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FatalStroke

New User
I watched pros teaching tonight while my daughter took a group lesson. The teaching is so impersonal and dull, pro stands on one side by bucket of balls, looks half asleep, feeds balls to person doing same thing again and again. Maybe twice in the hour the pro would actually demonstrate what to do. Must be really boring teaching like that. The group class looked kind of fun, sleeping pro stood next to class of four women who did hand eye coordination drills, forehanding cross service courts in an x pattern. They were having fun with each other and when they messed up the pro fed them another ball. Theres a missing link in this chain of instruction thats killing efficiency, they need kids between college and teaching level to feed the balls and keep existing drills going so the pro can move between two or three courts. If you can double the number of students and only pay that teachers assistant 10$/hr then student rates can be more affordable and yet more profitable..
 
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LapsedNoob

Professional
You shouldn't need to a of one on one coaching.

What you need after those beginner groups sessions is a few short sessions to poit out what you should work on followed by a few later sessions of feedback. In amongst all this should be as much court time as possible.
 
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FatalStroke

New User
LapsedNoob said:
You shouldn't need to a of one on one coaching.

What you need after those beginner groups sessions is a few short sessions to poit out what you should work on followed by a few later sessions of feedback. In amongst all this should be as much court time as possible.
Click to expand...

My current court time is 10+ hours a week, but 6.5 of that is doubles with guys with 5+ years, learning curve is challenging to say the least. Im an auto loss for my team most times.
 
G

GuyClinch

Legend
You are not likely to find good inexpensive instruction.. I'd go with plan B.

Plan B..

1) Join an inexpensive group class - you will at least meet people around your level that you can play regularly.
2) Get video of your play on a regular basis - buy a mount for your cellphone.
3) Compare our play to tennis pros - even for the casual fan they can generally spot quite a bit they are doing wrong.
4) Watch video of the pros doing it right. Watch video of teaching pros that try to explain what pros are doing and how to mimic it.
5) Join a league.
6) Rent a ball machine at least 1x per week.
7) play a lot of tennis.. as close to year round as you an handle.
8) work to improve your fitness and diet.

Scary as it seems - I still think money to burn and teaching pro beats all that. But if you can't afford a pro - this will get you going..
 
tennis_balla

tennis_balla

Hall of Fame
Fatalstroke, you need to see a real coach in action. What you saw on court in your post above was a ball feeder, not a coach. Although they like to call themselves that.
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
GuyClinch said:
You are not likely to find good inexpensive instruction.. I'd go with plan B.

Plan B..

1) Join an inexpensive group class - you will at least meet people around your level that you can play regularly.
2) Get video of your play on a regular basis - buy a mount for your cellphone.
3) Compare our play to tennis pros - even for the casual fan they can generally spot quite a bit they are doing wrong.
4) Watch video of the pros doing it right. Watch video of teaching pros that try to explain what pros are doing and how to mimic it.
5) Join a league.
6) Rent a ball machine at least 1x per week.
7) play a lot of tennis.. as close to year round as you an handle.
8) work to improve your fitness and diet.

Scary as it seems - I still think money to burn and teaching pro beats all that. But if you can't afford a pro - this will get you going..
Click to expand...
good list,...
I might put "improve fitness and diet" on top of the list... IMO that's the hardest :)
 
F

fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
FatalStroke said:
My current court time is 10+ hours a week, but 6.5 of that is doubles with guys with 5+ years, learning curve is challenging to say the least. Im an auto loss for my team most times.
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Well the good news is that you've got the bug and you're playing a pretty busy schedule. What's NO fun from a teaching perspective is working with folks who take perhaps a lesson every week, but don't do any "homework". I'd say that if you get even a little decent input (instruction) - not necessarily even once a week - you'll do a good job of digesting that guidance and learning to put it to work before your next session.

It can take a while to find the sort of person you're looking for out there. Networking and eventually tracking down maybe a college player or even a strong high school slugger to help you out could take some time, but I'm sure that a few of these people exist near you.

I'm not the greatest teacher/coach on the planet for sure, but the high profile teaching pros with the steep price tags are certainly not a universal fit for every developing player. Don't feel like you're not going to get anywhere with your game without hiring one of those people.

Bottom line: If you're hungry, you're going to learn and get better. The tricky part is that you sound as though you're headed into what's a sort of "phase two". In phase one, you put in a little work and got a good bit better, started playing more competitively, etc. But in phase two, you now have to put in a lot of work to get only a little better. Much harder now to recognize or track your progress, but if you keep your eyes on the horizon, your development will continue.
 
N

Nellie

Hall of Fame
I would e-mail the coach at a local college tennis team and ask if any of the players would be interested in giving some lessons or offering some hitting sessions. I know Case Western has a team.
 
T

TennisCJC

Legend
I live in Atlanta where tennis is very popular and here are options:

1. public tennis centers have good instructors for private lessons and group clinics.
2. use videos and books to supplement lessons and clinics
3. once you are improve to say 3.0 level, take a tennis clinic. There are several at resorts where you can get 3 or more hours of instruction/clinics per day for a week. You might find adult clinics at the local tennis centers or colleges too. They are usually expensive if you live on-site but local ones can be a good deal. IMG/Bolleteri Academy in Florida used to offer adult packages.
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
There needs to be more group coaching for adults where four people of similar ability are put together to share coaching and costs.
 
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bobtodd

Rookie
This -https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOau_eZu2kaRoqjR4xcA-Hg
The instructor (Brady) puts videos on youtube or will send to your email for free.

Free videos around 4 minutes each. Brady does a great job explaining the topic, then demonstrating the shot/strategy.
 
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cincyMike

Rookie
I have had great success working with a local college player. He really takes the time to analyze the things I am doing and will not only work on technique, drills etc.. but also has been the most helpful with the mental/strategy game as well. Plus only paying $25 an hour is a nice benefit. I have also taken professional instruction, but with a limited budget shelling out $70+ an hour for something that isn't going to have any kind of financial return is a bit steep at this stage of my life.
 
Fintft

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
RetroSpin said:
This is a problem. I would say check craigslist. You can probably find someone who teaches on a public court and will charge 40-50/hr, which is about the bottom of the barrel for decent coaching.
Click to expand...

I agree with you and further more: maybe the OP will be lucky enough to find a gem for about 40/h if he's lucky and looks hard enough.

Minor tip that works in my Canadian city: look for immigrants, i.e. some of the best and most affordable instructors are from South America or Eastern Europe.

Actually my main coach now, is a young co-national, fromm Eastern Europe, also a student that teaches in that price range (or even lower) over the summer, but also at $100/h during the winter at an expensive club (the club probably takes the lion's share out of that during winter).

Those 40/h spend during summer are, imho, worth double the value of the $70/h at my club, from any instructor, b/c she really applies herself to the lesson (like Balla says), comes up with new drills each time, tailors strategy to your streghts but also teaches you extra stuff etc.
 
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L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Seems to me......
If 2/3rds of your time is playing doubles against guys who always beat you, you have THREE instructors right there, most days.
Learn what they do, figure out how to do it, then apply it against them.
Best lessons ever.
 
Fintft

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
^^^^
It's true that sometimes it helps too peak at your partner/opponent or even a junior/advanced player on a nearby court, but it might depend on your level/experience as well if you can pick it up like that.
 
J

julian

Hall of Fame
Your point is well taken but ...

tennis_balla said:
Fatalstroke, you need to see a real coach in action. What you saw on court in your post above was a ball feeder, not a coach. Although they like to call themselves that.
Click to expand...
Interestingly enough "ball feeding" is a skill as well
One may design "ball feeding" to develop certain footwork skills,etc,etc
 
F

FatalStroke

New User
I lucked out big time this weekend. First i went out to practice serves yesterday, around #90 i see something stuck in the fence, find a 20$, terrific, but merely a taste of how the weekend was to go. This morning i go to thar place we play doubles and theres only 3 of us, 2 of the times i was on my own i beat both of these guys, and 1 of those times i shut them out.

They both quit early today, so i picked up my gf and we went to play at a new court we found near us. While there we see a guy instructing a hs age player, the teacher was involved, ran drills, encouraged, chided. I stopped by and got his number.

Turns out he taught tennis for a career , and has retired now. he used to run a tennis center in florida for 30yrs. He still coaches a hs team and he runs my local rec centers children's tennis program, which my daughter will attend during summer break. I start with him in a month, right around when my beginners class finishes. His price is 20 an hr, im thrilled.
 
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FatalStroke

New User
LeeD said:
Seems to me......
If 2/3rds of your time is playing doubles against guys who always beat you, you have THREE instructors right there, most days.
Learn what they do, figure out how to do it, then apply it against them.
Best lessons ever.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. Even with these guys, i see things they do wrong, poor strokes theyve learned to make work. Mental weaknesses, i know what i WANT to do to tear them apart i just dont have the execution. One of them is my most consistant hitting partners, and i tell you what, i will have him by summers end, he isnt as hungry as i am and i have a big advantage in physically, currently most sets with him i lose 6 to 2 or 3. I already know more about tennis then him because i read and research voraciously, i attack youtube and guides and books with a mental fork and knife. Another guy is much better then him, except he is worse then any of us mentally, he is easy to anger and annoy and he only cares for winning games, he isnt trying to progress, he just wants to be the big fish in our small pond. If teams are unfairly in his favor, you will see his best game, if you pair him with me, the greenest player, his game collapses, he doesnt even try, starts double faulting and gets verbally aggressive. My personal approach, i dont even keep score usually, everything is "hit this ball as best as i can" whether im up, down, i dont care about score,,, yet.
The third player is slightly better then me, started playing a month before me, he grew faster then i did, but he played in hs too. His fitness is suspect and his schedule recently sucked up most of his hitting time. Personal goal is to whoop him next time we meet.
 
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
Just one opinion from a similar rustbelt town.

From what I've seen, there's really only two types of coaches.
1) the forty to fifty an hour that dont give you anything at all you cant find with your own burning desire to get better and the internet.

2) The one or two truly elite who probably live in our cities. These are a different breed completely and are life changing. Its a marvel to watch them work. They are only going to take you on with a compelling reason or huge pockets.

The amount of dedication and intense practice time it would take to really use the expertise of a coach beyond what you could do yourself is massive. Its a full time job. I know alot of really good golfers. I dont know anybody that sees a coach once a week. There are some very smart people on these boards, as well as free internet instruction. You can get a ton.

You still need someone to drill with though. And for that, I know Ive never had a problem getting very good college and high school kids to hit with my daughter. Price is less than a coach will charge you. Or a ball machine. $500. Done deal.
 
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