Having a hard time finding affordable instruction

[FatalStroke]

The guy gave me references, asked me to call one of the local big name clubs and talk to the director, im awaiting a call back on that.

Perhaps he read me and sold me a price point he thought i would buy, perhaps he loves a hungry student, maybe i made a good first impression, maybe he's a hack. For 20$ ill find out

 

[FatalStroke]

Oh and as far as drilling, my whole family is doing tennis now. I met my gf through martial arts, we've trained together in different things for many years now, as well as instructed many classes. so i live with a training partner. My daughter has just started and going out to a park with a court and a playground has become our pastime and excercise.

 

[PittsburghDad]

The guy gave me references, asked me to call one of the local big name clubs and talk to the director, im awaiting a call back on that.

Perhaps he read me and sold me a price point he thought i would buy, perhaps he loves a hungry student, maybe i made a good first impression, maybe he's a hack. For 20$ ill find out

Go for it. At $20 its worth a try. Maybe a diamond in the rough.

 

[PittsburghDad]

Oh and as far as drilling, my whole family is doing tennis now. I met my gf through martial arts, we've trained together in different things for many years now, as well as instructed many classes. so i live with a training partner. My daughter has just started and going out to a park with a court and a playground has become our pastime and excercise.

Im only saying what I'm going to say next based on the fact that you said "You were hungry for the next level."

Its not going to happen knocking around with the fam in the park. Im all for that though. Great family activity. But rallying with a kid learning is brutal. And pointless. If "the next level" for you is the goal. You really need two years of drilling. I love to golf and used to be a fair rugby player. This sport is unbelieveably hard in comparison. And the next level is earned in hours. and hours. And hours. Some people just respond to one on one coaching I suppose. If the coach is right and right for you especially. But if you really want to get better, you need tons of hitting against people who are at least significantly better and will work what you need worked. Or a ball machine.

Personally, I dont really even play. I can beat the local court knee wrap crowd, but its so ugly it kind of turns my own stomach. And I can help my daughter with her swing, but I have neither the time nor NEAR the $ to get my own game that much better. Quite frankly, it hurts to watch my own game in comparison to her elegance. I'd rather just help her. My hand feed game is solid! (Even that takes years of practice.)

Its a tough sport to get good at. Have fun with, absolutely. To get better so that it feels really good, be prepared to shut up, tune out and hit for a thousand hours and then reassess.

You said alot about martial arts. Those places have an active reason to make you think you're really good. You're paying them. In tennis, you gotta earn those W's. Nowhere to hide, no excuses. And its rough....

 

[FatalStroke]

I went through tons of schools to end up where I did, if you care to, look up james decore on youtube, one of my old sparring partners and teachers, marvin williams, another teacher, though his students videos are probably easier to find, frank the tank carabello is probably his best known student. Chance zurab who is world ranked in full contact point sparring, i fought and did well vs him on a weekly basis, he has many youtube vids as well. I know what you speak of and i surpassed those schools. Since i was 18 schools like that tried to draft me as a teacher all the time, i learned to promptly leave those places. If you need further credentials, the head of our organization was superfoot bill wallace, a retired undefeated kickboxer well known as the face of century martial arts. I only got to train with him for a couple of hours unfortunately but,, he is a legend.

 

[Bartelby]

As an adult learner, I regularly get beat by former children with doting parents with big wallets.

 

[FatalStroke]

And family court time makes up perhaps 10% of my playtime currently, youre correct i would never progress if that was the majority of what i did. My time is roughly:
6.5 hrs of doubles
3-8 hours singles with one of those doubles guys, the second best id say, or we meet with others.
3-5 hrs of solo practice or practice with the gf/daughter
10 hrs of reading online or books.
Damn i hadnt really put it all down like that. This is a part time job!

 

[FatalStroke]

As an adult learner, I regularly get beat by former children with doting parents with big wallets.

Recreationals usually cant beat professionals and children have little else to do if their parents can afford court time! They're like baby professionals with young spongey brains! I can only hope to get decimated by the kiddo in the next decade.

 

[PittsburghDad]

You practice 22.5 hours a week? Cool.

 

[FatalStroke]

You practice 22.5 hours a week? Cool.

Readings not really practice and i can fit that time in anywhere. That practice time is split up into chunks here and there, but it adds up.

Im ADHD, and one way it expresses itself is the opposite of an attention deficit, hyper focus. to others its like im not paying attention, but my brain is really just chugging through whatever is my obsession. It sounds counterintuitive but thats how it works for me, if i get this way about something, particularly something of intricate physical skill, i do it like an ocd maniac till i hit a wall or become complacent with my skill level.

 

[sureshs]

Recreationals usually cant beat professionals and children have little else to do if their parents can afford court time! They're like baby professionals with young spongey brains! I can only hope to get decimated by the kiddo in the next decade.

He said "former children." You missed his sarcasm.

 

[julian]

By Jimmy Royalty

Ball feeders and ball feeding, two totally different things Julian

The full quote -just to let you know the full text
----->
Feeding
It is important that you feed to the level of the student. For example, when working with beginners, don’t hit with massive amounts of spin. Maybe you should be hand tossing to certain students. Your job as a coach is to make your players feel successful and confident when leaving your program. The ball should be fed into the strike zone (waist high) of the player. The higher the level, the tougher the feed can be. Make sure you are feeding with a continental grip as this will allow the ball to sit. Feeding with a semi-western or western grip will not allow for your players to succeed. Using these grips will also more than likely fatigue your arm and energy in the long run.

 

[FatalStroke]

First beginner class was tonight, some feedback on my strokes and an instant level up to my serve was well worth 10$ nice to play at my own pace too, difficult to get a long flowing stroke as a newb vs a faster player

 

[sureshs]

Julian I was also referring to the same article. Was it in Inside Tennis or Tennisview? I forget. I read them in the toilet or over dinner and throw them awah

 

[julian]

The context is important

Julian I was also referring to the same article. Was it in Inside Tennis or Tennisview? I forget. I read them in the toilet or over dinner and throw them awah

My point is subtle. The context/full quote is of some importance
The quote is "driven" by the first sentence.

 

[GuyClinch]

6.5 hrs of doubles
3-8 hours singles with one of those doubles guys, the second best id say, or we meet with others.
3-5 hrs of solo practice or practice with the gf/daughter
10 hrs of reading online or books.
Damn i hadnt really put it all down like that. This is a part time job!

Way to much reading..You might pick up one or two tips and try to use that during your 12 hours of on court practice - but that shouldn't take more then an hour. Tennis is a sport - and you need to treat it like such. I'd suggest doing some gym work instead of reading. <g>

 

[tennis_balla]

Julian, there are ball feeders and there are tennis coaches. Ball feeders don't coach cause they don't know how. They get paid minimum, are used by the tennis director, don't educate themselves on how to coach, constantly adapting, learning etc. They are about as useful as a handbrake on a canoe.

Unfortunately 80% of "tennis coaches" are nothing more than ball feeders.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

And family court time makes up perhaps 10% of my playtime currently, youre correct i would never progress if that was the majority of what i did. My time is roughly:
6.5 hrs of doubles
3-8 hours singles with one of those doubles guys, the second best id say, or we meet with others.
3-5 hrs of solo practice or practice with the gf/daughter
10 hrs of reading online or books.
Damn i hadnt really put it all down like that. This is a part time job!

Wow, I thought I spent alot of time on tennis!
Only thing I see missing here is critical analysis. Do you video tape yourself? Do you take notes on things you did well vs. things you didn't do well. Do you have an improvement goal for *every* hitting session? Do you actively go out to play without the fear of losing for the sake of making an improvement (eg. to a stroke or specific shot, etc...)?

I've seen alot of people that spend alot of time playing, or reading etc... but don't actually make changes. They spend 10+ or more years, "knowing" what they need to change, but never actually making the change.

My dad is like a 3.0-3.5 player.. who introduced me to the game... He asked me decades ago, what changes he could make to his game that would help him be a better player. I prescribed 2 changes:
1. continental/eastern bh grip for his server (he has a frying pan grip)
2. contintent grip on his volleys (he holds an eastern fh grip)
Everytime I see him play, he still hasn't changed.. he says it feels uncomfortable, and he doesn't have time to practice (and he plays dubs 6-8hrs a week)... but that was like 15 years ago since I first showed him...

It's hard "dropping in the tennis pecking order" when you're making changes (eg. I lost a year switching from "hawaiian" fh grip to "semi-western"), and I find most public court recreational players wont do it.

Not saying you do this, but given the amount of time you spend playing, just a checkup question to make sure you're not just logging hours vs. actually spending quality time to improve (ala "10,000hrs of painful flow-less quality practice... not just 10,000 hrs of being on the court hitting a ball)

to add to what others have said, finding a ball feeder is a waste of money... better off buying a ball machine or go to the wall. a quality coach however (even $100-150hr) will shortcut your learning process (presuming you actually apply the feedback), by years. My 2 best sets of lessons, were from former touring pros. They charged $100-150 each time, and each time I learned a ton. I tend to only get them once a year so. Similarly I've spent $100/hr for a "hitting lesson" (I was deperate one day to hit).... I got a good workout, but the only advice I got was "don't hit so hard all the time"... I mostly got praise on how well i hit (great, if i needed to stroke my ego).

 

[julian]

Pointers?

Julian, there are ball feeders and there are tennis coaches. Ball feeders don't coach cause they don't know how. They get paid minimum, are used by the tennis director, don't educate themselves on how to coach, constantly adapting, learning etc. They are about as useful as a handbrake on a canoe.

Unfortunately 80% of "tennis coaches" are nothing more than ball feeders.

Any pointers how to move from 80 percents to 20 percents ?
Please share some magic
I can send you some chocolate by e-mail
I am desperate

 

[andrehanderson]

What martial art did you do?

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Any pointers how to move from 80 percents to 20 percents ?
Please share some magic
I can send you some chocolate by e-mail
I am desperate

I like to ask to watch a lesson they are giving,.. otherwise it has to be by recommendation from someone I trust (eg. another high level player) etc....

 

[Deleted member 23235]

What martial art did you do?

yeah I'm curious too..
fellow martial artist here (bj, muy Thai, fma)

 

[FatalStroke]

Way to much reading..You might pick up one or two tips and try to use that during your 12 hours of on court practice - but that shouldn't take more then an hour. Tennis is a sport - and you need to treat it like such. I'd suggest doing some gym work instead of reading. <g>

vic bradens mental tennis instantly gave me results, i was compensating for feeling in the way at doubles nights by beating up on myself verbally and going into death spirals of stress and frustration, reading that book gave me insight into myself and let me get back to focusing on improvements and not stressing. Its been awhille since i was poor at my chosen sport. Theres quite a bit to learn on the front end, from racquets to strings, shoes, balls, strategy, some of the "reading" is actually watching youtubes of anything tennis related. Digging into the "feel tennis" channel of youtube this week. Need to finish mental tennis and start "the art of doubles". I cant go to the court and hit at work or before bed or on crappy weather days but i can study.

Wow, I thought I spent alot of time on tennis!
Only thing I see missing here is critical analysis. Do you video tape yourself? Do you take notes on things you did well vs. things you didn't do well. Do you have an improvement goal for *every* hitting session? Do you actively go out to play without the fear of losing for the sake of making an improvement (eg. to a stroke or specific shot, etc...)?

I've seen alot of people that spend alot of time playing, or reading etc... but don't actually make changes. They spend 10+ or more years, "knowing" what they need to change, but never actually making the change.

My dad is like a 3.0-3.5 player.. who introduced me to the game... He asked me decades ago, what changes he could make to his game that would help him be a better player. I prescribed 2 changes:
1. continental/eastern bh grip for his server (he has a frying pan grip)
2. contintent grip on his volleys (he holds an eastern fh grip)
Everytime I see him play, he still hasn't changed.. he says it feels uncomfortable, and he doesn't have time to practice (and he plays dubs 6-8hrs a week)... but that was like 15 years ago since I first showed him...

It's hard "dropping in the tennis pecking order" when you're making changes (eg. I lost a year switching from "hawaiian" fh grip to "semi-western"), and I find most public court recreational players wont do it.

Not saying you do this, but given the amount of time you spend playing, just a checkup question to make sure you're not just logging hours vs. actually spending quality time to improve (ala "10,000hrs of painful flow-less quality practice... not just 10,000 hrs of being on the court hitting a ball)

to add to what others have said, finding a ball feeder is a waste of money... better off buying a ball machine or go to the wall. a quality coach however (even $100-150hr) will shortcut your learning process (presuming you actually apply the feedback), by years. My 2 best sets of lessons, were from former touring pros. They charged $100-150 each time, and each time I learned a ton. I tend to only get them once a year so. Similarly I've spent $100/hr for a "hitting lesson" (I was deperate one day to hit).... I got a good workout, but the only advice I got was "don't hit so hard all the time"... I mostly got praise on how well i hit (great, if i needed to stroke my ego).

i actually took the lessons i got last night and went to the court today, just got back. I used a forehand backhand drill we did, on my daughter as a game and then she went to the playground and i drilled a new serve mechanic the guy showed me last night. Yes i do have in mind priorities when i drill and train, today was making sure im cracking a whip with my serve instead of just going to trophy pose and trying to force pronation. Big difference in power but it will take me a week or so to get my accuracy and comfort back.

What martial art did you do?

Started in chinese hawaiin kenpo with kenpo jitsu when i was a kid, 8 years at that school. did tae kwon and hapkido at two different schools for another 2 or 3 years, one of my teachers trained in korea during korean war and was a green beret, another was the first olympic coach whose student brought back a gold medal from korea in tkd full contact fighting. I then went to an american kenpo/superfoot system/brazilian jui jitsu, literally three different heads of the school each specializing in one of those. I did stand up full contact point fighting there, american kenpo which is closely related to my original chinese hawaiin kenpo, and a bit of kickboxing.

 

[FatalStroke]

Oh and no, i cannot care about winning or losing, i literally ignore score, practice is practice and if i make my goal to simply hit as best i can, i have faith the points will eventually take care of themselves. It aggravates my team mates sometimes because obviously i drop the ball the most and then seemingly dont care anymore, and i dont even know the score! Haha, welp, sorry my mind was on "get the racquet back, coil my body, swing with my shoulders, uncoil, step through, ok good"

 

[t135]

Good luck finding a good coach at $25 per hour. You can rent a ball machine for $25 and hour usually. Tennis isn't like martial arts. Just join a team at your level and get out and practice with your teammates a couple times a week, take a team/group lesson once a week, and hit the ball machine once a week. Then splurge on a private lesson a month with a good coach.

Good luck.

 

[FatalStroke]

Good luck finding a good coach at $25 per hour. You can rent a ball machine for $25 and hour usually. Tennis isn't like martial arts. Just join a team at your level and get out and practice with your teammates a couple times a week, take a team/group lesson once a week, and hit the ball machine once a week. Then splurge on a private lesson a month with a good coach.

Good luck.

Actually found a retired professional coach for 20 an hr and, basically im doing everything else you suggest other then the ball machine time. i do have a sampras ball picker upper/holder coming tomorrow, along with some gel speed 2s from tw. Intend to use the ball holder to improve training time and my gf and i can take turns feeding each other.

 

[t135]

Glad to hear it. A good ball machine can be a wicked workout and provide great training of you use them right. And you can really groove strokes.

 

[FatalStroke]

Glad to hear it. A good ball machine can be a wicked workout and provide great training of you use them right. And you can really groove strokes.

If i keep seeing the wilson burn commercial on youtube i might have to rent some time on one

Man. So i played my main partner tonight,, ugh did so bad. Warmed up and then he beat me 6-1. my serve is off due to this new form, will take alot more practice before it gets dialed in.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Just join a team at your level and get out and practice with your teammates a couple times a week, take a team/group lesson once a week, and hit the ball machine once a week.

Joining a USTA team, at the appropriate level, is probably the best way to improvement.

Just make sure to find a team/captain that is not obsessed on winning the championships. There are lots of those to be sure but there are also teams and captains that are less competitive and players get a chance to play.

I think USTA membership is about $50/year plus $25 team registration, so hopefully that is an affordable option to OP.

 

[FatalStroke]

Joining a USTA team, at the appropriate level, is probably the best way to improvement.

Just make sure to find a team/captain that is not obsessed on winning the championships. There are lots of those to be sure but there are also teams and captains that are less competitive and players get a chance to play.

I think USTA membership is about $50/year plus $25 team registration, so hopefully that is an affordable option to OP.

Sounds quite interesting but AFAIK the only way to do this is via one of the local clubs, maybe im ignorant of how it works but they are the only places ive heard of usta leagues. I am a member at Clevelandtennis.com and im starting to meet some people through that.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Sounds quite interesting but AFAIK the only way to do this is via one of the local clubs, maybe im ignorant of how it works but they are the only places ive heard of usta leagues. I am a member at Clevelandtennis.com and im starting to meet some people through that.

USTA teams can be formed from either private clubs or public park courts. In the case of private clubs you will have to pay high club membership fees.

But there are also teams formed from public parks (with no club membership fees). In CA, for example:

http://www.norcal.usta.com/CommunityTennis/parks_and_rec/

Tennis in the Parks is a partnership between the United States Tennis Association (USTA) and the National Recreation and Park Association (NRPA) for the purpose of providing ideas and resources to grow tennis programming in public parks across the nation, as well as helping public parks create programs that are affordable and self-sustaining.

USTA Member Organizations - Parks and Recreation

Alameda Recreation & Parks Department ALAMEDA (510) 747-7586
Boyle Park MILL VALLEY (415) 388-6523
City of Atwater Parks & Rec ATWATER (209) 357-6322
City of Gilroy/Community Services GILROY (408) 846-0460
City Of Live Oak Parks and Recreation LIVE OAK (530) 695-2112
City of Oakland Parks & Recreation OAKLAND (510) 444-5663
Cosumnes Community Services District ELK GROVE (916) 405-5645
Dublin Parks & Community Services DUBLIN (925) 556-4558
Fremont Tennis Center FREMONT (510) 790-5510
Gridley Recreation Dept GRIDLEY (530) 846-3264
Hayward Area Recreation & Park District HAYWARD (510) 881-6700
Hercules Parks-N-Community Tennis HERCULES (510) 612-3962
Incline Village Tennis Center INCLINE VILLAGE (775) 832-1323
Livermore Area Recreation & Parks/Future Stars 200 LIVERMORE (925) 784-5338
Marinwood Community Center SAN RAFAEL (415) 479-0775
Morgan Hill Tennis Club MORGAN HILL (408) 779-4575
Pleasanton Tennis and Community Park PLEASANTON (925) 931-3449
Richmond Youth Tennis Center RICHMOND (510) 620-6904
Sacramento City Recreation & Parks Dept. SACRAMENTO (916) 808-5236
San Francisco Recreation & Parks Dept. SAN FRANCISCO (415) 753-7001
Sherwood Tennis Center SALINAS (831) 758-7318
Stockton Parks & Recreation STOCKTON (209) 937-8285
Town of Discovery Bay CSD DISCOVERY BAY (925) 634-1733
West Sacramento Parks and Recreation WEST SACRAMENTO (916) 617-4620 x4636

 

[FatalStroke]

I will look around, summertime sports dont get quite the attention here in cleveland as in the sunshine States. We were playing in wind and snow last night here, and its a low 30s windy snow rain mix today here at the end of april ill talk to my coach and see maybe we can put together such a league if it doesnt exist already, he talked about tennis in our area "caving in on itself" the last 15 years, said it used to be big and now its almost dead. My friend and i were the only ones at the park at all last night, and i went next door to the bowling alley to get a rosin bag, and it was packed full of people.

 

[LakeSnake]

There you go, bowling. A perfect sport... you're always in the shade, you don't have to change clothes if you don't want to, you can drink beer while you're playing. Do they even have bowling teachers?

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Sounds quite interesting but AFAIK the only way to do this is via one of the local clubs, maybe im ignorant of how it works but they are the only places ive heard of usta leagues. I am a member at Clevelandtennis.com and im starting to meet some people through that.

Gotta agree, breaking into tennis circles can be tough. 3 options i've used
1. join a club
2. get recruited/word of mouth/meeting people
3. start your own team

Side note, I recall moving to my current area, and going to a local court where it was common for folks to just find other players (eg. not prearranged players)... took me a month of begging people to play (3.0-4.0) before I was accepted into the fold as someone that can play. So it definitely takes time to break into tennis circles.

 

[FatalStroke]

There you go, bowling. A perfect sport... you're always in the shade, you don't have to change clothes if you don't want to, you can drink beer while you're playing. Do they even have bowling teachers?

Yes, at community colleges.

Gotta agree, breaking into tennis circles can be tough. 3 options i've used
1. join a club
2. get recruited/word of mouth/meeting people
3. start your own team

Side note, I recall moving to my current area, and going to a local court where it was common for folks to just find other players (eg. not prearranged players)... took me a month of begging people to play (3.0-4.0) before I was accepted into the fold as someone that can play. So it definitely takes time to break into tennis circles.

Yep many players around here are older then me as well, they get rather sour about a young athletic guy, even one who cant win yet.

 

[LakeSnake]

Yep many players around here are older then me as well, they get rather sour about a young athletic guy, even one who cant win yet.

The way I solved that was I always run around and pick up the balls. It seems to have mostly won them over.

 

[heninfan99]

Look for a good college player to teach you for cheap.

With group lessons if the group is larger than 4 you don't get much out of it besides a workout.