Having The Woman Serve First In Mixed

Cindysphinx

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
I play 7.0 and 8.0 mixed. There have been very few times when my female opponent has served first. It has happened twice in 8.0 mixed (women were 4.0s). It has happened a few more times in 7.0 mixed when the guy had a really dodgy serve but was good at net.

Anyway, I have never served first in mixed. Last night, I was playing 7.0 mixed and I came thiiiiiis close to telling my male partner to hand me the balls.

In the first set, he served first. He's a lefty; opposing male is also a lefty. The game went to multiple deuces, with multiple DFs. Opposing male was having no trouble with my partner's serve -- sometimes crushing his return at me or past me for winners -- and we were lucky to win the game.

Then when I served, it was four first serves and four quick points. This is not because I am Karlovic. It is because the lefty guy was on the deuce court, and he had no BH to speak of. So I just kept slicing out wide to him, and he kept yanking the ball into the net. Meanwhile, the woman struggled with the slice and popped them up to my partner. We won the set 6-1.

In the second set, I seriously thought about asking to serve first. We were winning my service games easily, but it was a struggle on my partner's service games.

I chickened out. There just seems to be a feeling (in me, anyway) that it would be kind of emasculating to suggest that we change the service order. I mean, he has eyes. He could see what was happening. He could have suggested that we make this adjustment and didn't, so maybe it would be insulting if I brought it up. Sure enough, he served first, and had difficulty. We went down 1-4 before rallying to win in a set tiebreak.

So. Fellas. Would it be bothersome to you if your female partner suggested that she serve first? How does one bring this sort of thing up? Has any female partner ever suggested that she serve first?
 
I would have no problem with my mixed partner asking to serve first. My ego is also not so large that something of this nature would emasculate me to any degree.

As long as you discuss it for a moment with your partner on changeovers or between games, you should be able to find a resolution with no one getting upset.
 
I've played in 2 mixed leagues & my partner often served first to mix up strategy. I never noticed a difference whether she served first or not.
 
I serve considerably better than my female partner in our 9.0 mix team but the thing is she has so much spin variety and "junk" that we often agree that she serves first. From my experience playing mixed the majority of female players, especially younger mid 20's and up like to play that big hitting flat baseline game and an off pace player really drives them crazy. It's like clock work that the flat hitting opposing female player eventually gets frustrated and can't even put the ball in play and when she does I'm there to pick it off at the net. The match eventually turns into a 2 vs 1 match lol.

-Jon
 
while i don't play mixed very often, with good reason I'd let
my female partner serve first, no problem. heck even without
"good reason", all depends on the situation.

I'm generally a stronger server in my little 4.0 world, but
certainly have my off days, days with the yips on the toss, etc.
(i don't play enough to keep my serve consistent anymore, basically).

therefore, if having an off day/feeling i'll defer to my partner
without hesitation, mixed or not. it allows me to get in the groove
a little before i serve. again, no problems.

there also those days when i just know i'm going to bomb it.
then i say "hand 'em here!"
 
If it's social tennis, by all means, it may be ladies first. But, if you care about winning and it's competition, let the BEST server serve first, whether it be man or woman.
 
Maybe he was having a tough time winning his serve due to the lack of your net game and you were holding serve easier because of respect of his net game. No disrespect intended but just a thought
 
Only if the sun is in a really icky spot. With my weakest shot being the static volley it's just better if I serve first.

The normal deal with my pard is I serve first in a set when inside. Outside we pick the side we want and keep the rotation going unless something really odd is going on strategically.
 
A server winning his/her serve is oftentimes NOT due to strong serves, but to strong netplayer THREATENING the returns.
If you hold easily, you should ask to serve first. You had smart serves and your partner threatened their returns effectively.
However, EVERY strategy get's countered eventually, and by different teams. You apply the strategy that works for you, but it might not work the next time.
 
It doesn't matter who has the better serve. What matters is who is more likely to hold serve - and that depends on a lot of factors that have been listed in this thread. I always talk to my partner between sets to decide who should serve first in the second.
 
OK, this is not what I expected at all.

When I play ladies doubles, partners tend to defer quite a lot. There's always a conversation in the beginning of a match with a new partner. It goes: "Would you like to serve?" "Oh, I dunno. How are you feeling?" "I tend to do OK when I serve, but you never know." "Did you have a good warm-up?" "Not really." "Well, maybe I should serve." And so on.

When I play mixed, one of two things happens. Either the guy grabs the balls and goes back to serve, or I hand him the balls and he goes back to serve.

Maybe the only guys who are responding are those who are secure in their masculinity . . . :)
 
I almost never play mixed and have low expectations on the winning part, though a high expectation on the fun part. Whatever they want to do is fine by me.
 
The sun was mentioned in a previous post. That's often a good reason for a lefty-righty team to determine who serves from which end, mixed or not (unless it's at night and/or indoors.)
 
Cindysphinx said:
OK, this is not what I expected at all.

When I play ladies doubles, partners tend to defer quite a lot. There's always a conversation in the beginning of a match with a new partner. It goes: "Would you like to serve?" "Oh, I dunno. How are you feeling?" "I tend to do OK when I serve, but you never know." "Did you have a good warm-up?" "Not really." "Well, maybe I should serve." And so on.
Click to expand...

That part of playing with women drives me crazy. I understand why it happens, but you have to coax the women to tell you which side she'd rather play. I don't care which side I play, so if my woman partner has a preferred side, I'd like her to play it. But pulling that information out of her can take for-EVER!

As for who serves first, I don't care as long as it gives us a better chance to win. There are times where I don't feel fully warmed up and suggest my partner serve first.

Just win, baby. ;)
 
Cindysphinx said:
I play 7.0 and 8.0 mixed. There have been very few times when my female opponent has served first. It has happened twice in 8.0 mixed (women were 4.0s). It has happened a few more times in 7.0 mixed when the guy had a really dodgy serve but was good at net.

Anyway, I have never served first in mixed. Last night, I was playing 7.0 mixed and I came thiiiiiis close to telling my male partner to hand me the balls.

In the first set, he served first. He's a lefty; opposing male is also a lefty. The game went to multiple deuces, with multiple DFs. Opposing male was having no trouble with my partner's serve -- sometimes crushing his return at me or past me for winners -- and we were lucky to win the game.

Then when I served, it was four first serves and four quick points. This is not because I am Karlovic. It is because the lefty guy was on the deuce court, and he had no BH to speak of. So I just kept slicing out wide to him, and he kept yanking the ball into the net. Meanwhile, the woman struggled with the slice and popped them up to my partner. We won the set 6-1.

In the second set, I seriously thought about asking to serve first. We were winning my service games easily, but it was a struggle on my partner's service games.

I chickened out. There just seems to be a feeling (in me, anyway) that it would be kind of emasculating to suggest that we change the service order. I mean, he has eyes. He could see what was happening. He could have suggested that we make this adjustment and didn't, so maybe it would be insulting if I brought it up. Sure enough, he served first, and had difficulty. We went down 1-4 before rallying to win in a set tiebreak.

So. Fellas. Would it be bothersome to you if your female partner suggested that she serve first? How does one bring this sort of thing up? Has any female partner ever suggested that she serve first?
Click to expand...

Emasculating?! Like in that other sentence above :wink: ?

Seriously though, it depends. I suppose it could be. I don't play mixed (other than social) so not sure of the dynamics there. Personally, I like to warm up my game before having to serve. I always choose to receive at the start of the match if I have an option, singles or doubles (with my partner's agreement of course if it's doubles). I'm also of the "eat dessert last" school of thought; I look at my service games as an opportunity to solidify the lead, or dig out of trouble (it doesn't always works that way admittedly).
 
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Variation on this: a few years ago when I had to play with a much weaker woman, I used to just grab the balls and say "shall I serve first?", or "do you mind if I serve first?". A few times I got the impression the women were annoyed at my attitude, so I switched to asking them if they would would like to serve first, hoping they'd understand that I was just being polite. Most did, but then you'd come across the odd one that didn't, would say "yes", then I'd be annoyed.

These days I just don't consider these games serious enough to care if we win or lose. None of my regular mixed partners are going to ask to serve first :-) (Not even the wife!)
 
Nope, the better server does NOT necessarily serve first.
The server with the best chance to HOLD SERVE serves first.
 
ryan sc said:
Maybe he was having a tough time winning his serve due to the lack of your net game and you were holding serve easier because of respect of his net game. No disrespect intended but just a thought
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/l\ This is often the case in mixed and not mixed, and I always serve first in men's bc my partner is an animal at net.
 
AtomicForehand said:
Not true. I am playing a doubles league right now, and my serve is much more powerful and accurate than my partner's. However, I am also better at net, so she holds more.
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This was exactly my situation last mixed league I was in. I was much better at the net than my partner.
 
AtomicForehand said:
Not true. I am playing a doubles league right now, and my serve is much more powerful and accurate than my partner's. However, I am also better at net, so she holds more.
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If you are playing against real players, they are not going to hit the ball to the net-man, the return will be cross-court and out of your reach, I don't care how fast you are.
 
tennis tom said:
If you are playing against real players, they are not going to hit the ball to the net-man, the return will be cross-court and out of your reach, I don't care how fast you are.
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I'm only 3.5 so I can get to many attempts at crosscourt returns, plus my partner's strongest part of her game is the serve.
 
I think it depends on the guy Cindy. Me, I don't really care and often do feel like my mixed partner and I have a better chance of holding with me at the net than when I'm serving. I know guys though who absolutely DO care and would be annoyed if their female partner wanted to serve first.

I would hazzard a guess that you have played primarily with guys of the second type, and you are reading that on some level. You might have played with a guy here or there who wouldn't feel that way, but perhaps the majority have affected your perceptions overall.

At the end of the day I say, suggest what you believe to be the best strategy at that time. If your partner doesn't like it, better to find out early that he might not be a good fit as a long term partner.
 
I always let my partner serve first. I always need more time than the allotted 10 minutes of warmup to warm up my legs and shoulder :)
 
Tennis Tom...
Quite often, the big server get's the poorest player, the opposition hits to the netperson (the poorest player), and he gets broken every time.
A bad server needs only hit one more shot after his serve, and if it's anywhere near forcing, the netman takes over the point.
In my 3.5-4.5 doubles experience, that is almost always the case. That's why we put the worst player with the best, while the two middling players play together and give the opposition a tough match.
 
I don't play much mixed, but when I do, I usually serve first in the match. But then in the second set, I like to keep serving from the same side, so sometimes that means I prefer my parter to serve first in the second set.

If my partner actually wants to serve first in the match, I'd have no problem with that. However usually the expectation (from my female partner) is that I start off serving.

On a side note: I find it odd that the OP's 3.5 male partner (the lefty) can't serve wide in the deuce court to the oppenent's (also lefty) backhand. This is a common serve for right handers (serve wide from the ad court to the righty opponent's backhand).
 
LeeD said:
Pretty bad when a tournament 3.5 can't serve to a spot.
Click to expand...

Indeed, I was thinking that. Not the most orthodox strategy serving wide in doubles but I guess at that level (says me from the lofty heights of, erm, 4.5) not too many opponents are going to make the shot up the line to the corner....
 
cindy after the first set it would not have been "EMASCULATING"
to mention to your partner something like this

"we seem to be holding serve easier when i serve
do you think i should start us off this set??"

if the woman player is the better player than probably she should serve first
 
I just realized I will be playing another match with this fellow next week.

Funny thing . . . Just because things worked better off of my serve last time doesn't mean the same thing will happen next time.

There's a lot of pressure serving first. Maybe I should just let him serve first again . . . .
 
So what? That means Cindy should still serve first, because then they will win more of their service games.


ryan sc said:
Maybe he was having a tough time winning his serve due to the lack of your net game and you were holding serve easier because of respect of his net game. No disrespect intended but just a thought
Click to expand...
 
ryan sc said:
Maybe he was having a tough time winning his serve due to the lack of your net game and you were holding serve easier because of respect of his net game. No disrespect intended but just a thought
Click to expand...

Nope, he was having a tough time winning his serve because his serve wasn't bothering the opponents as much as mine was. It was hardly a case of me botching set-ups.
 
Cindysphinx said:
Nope, he was having a tough time winning his serve because his serve wasn't bothering the opponents as much as mine was. It was hardly a case of me botching set-ups.
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Were you poaching? Were you being agressive at net? or just guarding 3 feet of the net?

There are many factors to holding serve in doubles, being a good server is just half of the story.
 
we typically defer if we win the toss anyway

if we break serve, i serve ..otherwise my partner serves...

there's a better chance if you are serving 2nd you will be serving to close out the set/match..ie..at 5-4 I want to be serving..
 
Totai said:
Were you poaching? Were you being agressive at net? or just guarding 3 feet of the net?

There are many factors to holding serve in doubles, being a good server is just half of the story.
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:shrug:

I was playing the way I play. I try to be aggressive and finish points. Many things affect how well I will do that in any given match.
 
No matter how good you are at net. If your female partner serve soft like a floater. You are a sitting duck at the net. Just hope the returner don't come into the court and blast the shot at you.

It happened to me two weeks ago in 8.0 Mixed. A 4.5 return serve from my partner. He pick up the ball just on the rise and it was about two feet behind service line. Just imagine how dangerous for the net person standing there. He blast the ball like crack open a peanut and man enough not into the net person body. Against 3.5 I would agree a good net person manage to win lots of point at the net. But not against solid strong 4.0 and above players when your partner have no serve.
 
tennis tom said:
If you are playing against real players, they are not going to hit the ball to the net-man, the return will be cross-court and out of your reach, I don't care how fast you are.
Click to expand...

Thats true but if you do have a good net player it makes the returner hit a better shot then needed or the returner is hitting more angle away from the net player and may cause shots to go wide due to intimidation factor at net. Also a strong net player takes away a couple of options away from returner. Hitting a crosscourt return back to the server isn't always the best play .Going down the line , right at net player with a strong return is good as well, lobs . All these shots sends a message to other team that they can't just expect a cross court return and keeps them off balance.
 
Amazingly someone writes it and then it happens on the court.

Today in a mixed match I serve first and hold and the other team's guy goes back to serve and we break him at love. Fast forward to the end of the set and we are back on serve and we break him again to take the set 6-4. The woman held her two games at duece.

So to start the second set I hold and who goes back to take the ball ... the other guy again who we promptly break on our way to serving them some carbs. Over all he was broken 4 out of 5 service games and I could have told you at the beginning the woman was a better server than he was.

I think I have served first in every match that counted unless the sun was a factor but if my partner could hold more easily than me I would hand her the balls in a minute.
 
My mixed doubles partner always serves first, especially if we are the first to serve. We almost always win her serve, due to my net play (I stink as a player but am solid at the net). ALSO, this strategy often makes the other team have THEIR woman serve first. We very frequently start matches up 3-0 (we hold, we break the woman's serve, I hold).
Today we employed this strategy, and, yes, got up 3-0. Ended up winning the first set 6-1.
 
dizzlmcwizzl said:
Amazingly someone writes it and then it happens on the court.

Today in a mixed match I serve first and hold and the other team's guy goes back to serve and we break him at love. Fast forward to the end of the set and we are back on serve and we break him again to take the set 6-4. The woman held her two games at duece.

So to start the second set I hold and who goes back to take the ball ... the other guy again who we promptly break on our way to serving them some carbs. Over all he was broken 4 out of 5 service games and I could have told you at the beginning the woman was a better server than he was.

I think I have served first in every match that counted unless the sun was a factor but if my partner could hold more easily than me I would hand her the balls in a minute.
Click to expand...

To be fair I think that in doubles how good your partner is makes a huge difference. I am an average server but I can see how important my partner's play is when I serve. There are times when I look like an amazing server because my partner makes my serve look amazing. Then there are times when you constantly get broken on your serve even though you are serving the same exact way you always do simply because your partner is backing you up very poorly.

Also a lot of times when you feel that your partner isn't backing you up well, your serves go down the shredder. You try to do more with the serve to win the points outright, which causes your % to drop down. There is also more pressure for you to serve better... its just different. Everything changes depending on your partner.
 
It isn't just your partner either. Match-up problems play a role as well. Some types of serves (and they can come from men or women) just give certain people fits. Some people love pace and may struggle with a weak woman's serve and some love to crush the puff balls. The minor variations in spin we all have can throw people off as well.

I'm not too proud to recognize that someone happens to be teeing off on my serve and to adjust by letting my partner serve first. Anything else just hurts the team.
 
li0scc0 said:
My mixed doubles partner always serves first, especially if we are the first to serve. We almost always win her serve, due to my net play (I stink as a player but am solid at the net). ALSO, this strategy often makes the other team have THEIR woman serve first. We very frequently start matches up 3-0 (we hold, we break the woman's serve, I hold).
Today we employed this strategy, and, yes, got up 3-0. Ended up winning the first set 6-1.
Click to expand...

Really? A team will have their woman serve first just because the opposing woman serves first?

Man, that would never occur to me. When the opposing woman steps up to serve first, I figure either the man's serve is erratic or he is a terror at the net. I think there can also be times when the woman is so hapless at the net that it is better to have her back hitting groundies as much as possible, so that's another reason she might serve first.
 
tennis tom said:
If you are playing against real players, they are not going to hit the ball to the net-man, the return will be cross-court and out of your reach, I don't care how fast you are.
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Tennis Tom, what are "Real players? :confused:

I watch "Good Players" at the 3.5/4.0/4.5 and 5.0 levels drive the ball at net players when they get the shot they want. Do they do this on most shots? No. But they do and will pick times to drive the ball directly at a the net person and win a large percentage of the points.

Any in each of those divisions, each level of players especially the 4.0/4.5 and 5.0s will drill forehands directly at the net guy and win points. It happens at the pro level, it happens in college and it happens to players who don't play that slow "ping-pong" tennis, a term a 4.5 friend uses to describe the slow lobs that go back and forth as he refrains from gouging his eyes.

If you hit directly at the forehand side in the breast area of the chest, it's a tough play at the net, and easy point for someone with rocket forehand. The forehand volley is awkward, as you have to move the racquet low and directly in front of you. A backhand volley is equally difficult, as you have to rotate the handle up to the sky and place the head down to hit the volley. If you hit every shot crosscourt to your opponent, your missing the point. It's part of the game for "Good Players". You just have to have the right opportunity. I got plenty of points this way off guys at the net yesterday, as they were expecting a cross-court shot, instead of a blistering forehand at their chest. If you can't play the net, back up. I stand 12-15' from the net at least, when my partner serves. Once the ball is in play, I'm moving. It amazes me all the 3.5 guys who stand 3' from the net. I don't care how fast they are, when I hit a forehand directly at them, I'm going to win 90% to 95% of my forehands. The 4.0s and 4.5s all stand back off the net, but not the 3.5 "Real Players". They are up at the net, waiting to pounce. They problem is when they get pounced by someone with a blistering groundstroke.

I played in a a mixed tournament yesterday. My female partner served first, and her serve isn't better than mine. She is solid, but she gets a little tired as the day goes on. I like her serving first because I'm fast and aggressive at the net. In 66 games played, she lost her serve six times. I lost my three times. We both served 15-16 times each.

So IMO, you are wrong about two things.

1) "Real players" don't allows go cross court. Guys and girls with great groundstrokes will drill someone at the net. Most 3.5 and lower players aren't that good at the net, and it's easy to pick them off. My partner picked off 5 different women at the net yesterday, intentionally. She is aggressive and said "Why hit the ball back to the stronger player, when I can drill the net player who can't volley"? :) She knows how to play and how to win.

2) The person with the best serve, doesn't always serve first.

My ego was checked at the door. My female partner is solid, and I don't worry when a ball comes court court, that I'll have to hit a volley that I have to stretch way out of potion for. I know she is there to hit the ball where she feels comfortable, either crosscourt or down the line. My female partner would beat at least half the 3.5 men in my league, without question. She is a much better doubles partner than half of my men's team, and I am fortunate she asked me to be her partner.

P.S. We won the tournament. She was the strongest lady on the court, and that is why we won.
 
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anantak2k said:
To be fair I think that in doubles how good your partner is makes a huge difference. I am an average server but I can see how important my partner's play is when I serve. There are times when I look like an amazing server because my partner makes my serve look amazing. Then there are times when you constantly get broken on your serve even though you are serving the same exact way you always do simply because your partner is backing you up very poorly.

Also a lot of times when you feel that your partner isn't backing you up well, your serves go down the shredder. You try to do more with the serve to win the points outright, which causes your % to drop down. There is also more pressure for you to serve better... its just different. Everything changes depending on your partner.
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Spot on anantak2k2.
 
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