Discussion in 'Classic Racquet Talk' started by Meaghan, Apr 9, 2010.
That's a great deal for $20.
For those who use the off-hand at the throat of the racquet, remember the unusual feel of the Twin Tube's surface? It felt somehow 'softer' than the surface of the Bumblebee, almost as if one could scratch it with a fingernail. Was that just its unique paint job, or did the polyamide outer layer of the frame have anything to do with it?
I'm guessing that was the outer Twin Tube layer. LOL. My Head TT Premiere Tours were like that. It's like a thin clear film that wraps around the racket. Mine have all but scratched off on the hoop.
(I got it)
so get this-if you look at the pics i put online and see the one of the butt cap, you can see the sticker and the grey ring around it. well, the grey ring is a thin and bendable metal disk, and i know this because it fell off my racket the other day. ive had the racket for 3 years and this is the first time its happened. i tried to stick it back on with a sealing glue today, but it kept shifting and wouldnt stick. it weighs a little less than a nickle, so no more than 5grams (.18 ounces)-would I feel a difference in the swing weight with that not on the racket? and are there more hologram stickers I can buy like the one I had to stick on the racket?
I tried for ages to get hold of a Trysis 260 (or bumblebee)... I really wanted to experience some of that felt-ripping power for myself, but to no avail though, and moved on... ah well, along with a PC600, I'll hopefully have the opportunity to hit with 1 of these legendary frames 1 day! ("Wipes tear from eye". )
Sorry to say than that I've picked my old 630 radical and took it for a spin the other day Indeed an almost new tin of wilson us open balls have been carried on to their next lives. I was stupid/excited enough to not consider that the racquet had spent the last 15 years or so in the closet and went with the original leather grip (it's a 4 5/8) which has been somewhat bruised as a result, painting my hands black. The reason I had not liked the racquet the first time around had had to with playability, and although much older now I still feel that when carrying a larger grip size this stick will twist your arm on a less then carefully executed forehand. The double backhands are a blaze no matter what you do though, courtesy of the longer grip.
By the way, does anyone know if the YT prestige pro/mp match up to the original radical? I am in the market for one and since I did not like the beam on the YT radical I spotted the other day (too much like a babolat), I'd like to find out. Any advice appreciated.
Wow, those look in mint condition...nice find. I have a pair of those in OS size as I prefer 100-107 headsizes (yeah yeah, I suck, blah blah). To me, the original Radical Tour 260 (Bumblebee) has the best feel...it was made of of Graphite/Twaron construction and not Twin Tube and I absolutely love the crispiness of it has. The next closest to those would be the Blue/Black Pro Tour 280 model, which seems to be even more rare, especially the 690/OS version. I also own a Pro Tour 690 (Pro Tour 280 OS) and it feels like my Radical Tour 260 OS, but a little more flexy...more "smooth and buttery" as some would say. Though actually, I do often see the Pro Tour 630 pop up for sale here and there and so you might want to give those a try too.
Extremely jealous am I......
i've been messing around w/ the Radical Tour OS (made in china bumblebee version) and a Radical Tour OS TwinTube (made in austria version). both very solid sticks. i agree that the bumblebee is a serious ballcrusher. the TT definitely has a softer, more muted feel to it. kinda similar to the newer YT Radical OS except w/o the tinny hollow feel. love both racquets. in fact, i'm liking them so much, they're now getting more use than my beloved POG OS and mids. my wife loves hitting w/ the bumblebee so much that i don't get to use it much since she reaches for that one first when we go hit. but hey, i can't complain. after all, she's allowed me to acquire a collection of over 50 racquets and hasn't given me any crap over it.
Curious, is this the Radical Tour Twin Tube Zebra? If so, what year did they come out and how much do they sell for? The specs seem awesome.
The Radical Tour TwinTube 630 in that photo is the 1998. The "Zebra" was grey, light grey, and yellow and that came out in 1995. The only difference was cosmetic.
Just bought today one zebra midplus in mint conditions for 20 euro. The frame looks great. I have one question for you Vsbabolat:it's the head size of this frame exactly the same of the prestige intelligence mp, or it is slighty wider? thanks.
Head size is the same as i.Prestige MP. The Radical Tour TwinTube 630 is from teh same mold as the Pro Tour 630.
Actually, if the 630s follow the example of the 690s, the difference between the 'Zebra' 1995 and 'Candycane' 1998 is not only cosmetic.
The Candycane has a slightly lower static weight and a considerably lower swingweight than the Zebra. I have two Candycanes and have been playing primarily with Zebras for the last few years and I notice a large drop in power, swingweight and awesome when I switch to the Candycane.
is that a zebra in your avatar?
Heh actually no it's a Candycane! I switched briefly to the 1998 version for it's lighter swingweight - I must have set my avatar during that period. I soon began to miss the plowthrough and power of the Zebra though and switched back - I should get around to doing the same with my avatar.
How much is the Candycane worth used?
i am more familiar with the prestige line, but i got a radical made in austria in vg condition and i guess it´s a candycane. i have to search the forum for a picture of a zebra to confirm. do they look very different?
Sorry to revive and old thread, but i'm wondering what the correct answer here is. In essence i'm seeking to understand the difference (other than PJ) between the bumblebee, zebra and candycane radical tour MPs. Also, if the PT630 has the same mould i assume it has a different lay-up. So again, how does that compare to the Rad Tours?
PS: By way of explanation i have picked up a couple of Rad Tour OS (bumblebee) and am so enthused by them i want to consider an MP, but not sure which.
so are you asking for more tiny phisical differences among the 4, other than the pj, now that you master the fact of the same mould?
All four frames you mention were made in Austria and are very highly regarded even today. The Zebra and Candycane were very similar: both were TwinTube, meaning they had an outer polyamide layer to damp vibration, and the Zebra packed a heftier punch.
The earlier Radical (Trisys 260) and the Pro Tour (Trisys 280; marketed in Europe as "Pro Tour 630") were also very similar: both were graphite-Twaron composites, with the Twaron (an aramid fiber like Kevlar) damping vibration, and though their specs were nearly identical (look 'em up on TW's racquetfinder.com), the Radical was a little more powerful, as Head's Trisys number and a higher average swing weight suggest. They are both rated RA 58 for stiffness, but people who have played both seem to think the PT630/PT280 plays slightly more flexible than the Bumblebee.
If you like more feedback, you'll probably like the feel of the graphite-Twaron composites better. If you prefer more muted frames (still not as muted as frames of the past decade, though; vibe damping has come a long way), you may like the feel of the TwinTube frames more.
Extra Note: in later years there were China-made Radical Tours (Bumblebee PJ) that were good frames but contained neither Twaron nor an outer polyamid layer and therefore would feel a little different. They are usually identified by the lack of "Trisys 260" inscribed on the side of the frame.
Great - thanks very helpful thanks.
I just picked up a few first gen Radicals. I've only measure the 630 but man is it a beefsteak: 367g 32cm 352sw ...now to cap it...
here is the 690, haven't measured it yet.
Is that expected for a radical tour mp Plus leather (bumblebee, no trisys)?
Seems heavy to me
I'm using SwingTool app, so I think I mismeasured the balance point and that overcooked the swingweight slightly.
Now that I have it capped it is 369.5g, I'll measure the rest in a few passes later to reduce jitter.
my trysis 260 go all the way up to 360+ with a leather grip and without dampener.
BTW, one of my PT280 is at exactly 360g with two OG no leather no cushion.
Yep, beefy beef beef.
My bumblebee Radical MP does not say "Trisys 260" or "IDS" but it does say "made in austria". I changed the pallet and it did have the red sorbothane under it.
My friend's bumblebee Radical OS says "Trisys 260" and "IDS" but says "designed in austria".
Does this give a clue to the origin or layup of them?
Graphite/Twaron composite, made in Austria. I believe the lack of "Trisys 260" means that frame was sold in Europe rather than the U.S., but I'd feel better if VSBabolat or one of the other Headheads could confirm that.
Graphite/Twaron composite, made in Austria. Everything but the finishing touches (grip, maybe paint) happened in Kennelbach, then they put the cherry on top in the Czech Republic, so the law – which in that faraway time corporate entities sometimes still obeyed – would not allow them to claim that it was made in Austria. It's the ones that read simply "Austria" that were made later in China, all graphite and no Twaron.
There is at least one monster thread that goes into much more detail about those days and those frames, and it probably includes an exception or two to the above.
I am grateful everyday for my Austrian made HEAD racquets.
They made some magic, for sure, that has evidently been hard to replicate. Do you like the current Austrian pro stock PT57's as much as the original retail frames?
Something related, that I've long wondered, having seen contradictory claims about it: do those current pro stock versions use Twaron in their layups?
Is this a tricky question?
It's sincere. Is there a mistaken assumption in the question itself? Or has VSBabolat already expressed an opinion on the matter?
It seems reasonable to wonder. On the one hand, the old retail and the new pro stock are, in *some* sense at least, the same frame, and I recall a post in which a tour player described his PT57A to a fan as "the old blue one." On the other, Twaron is a proprietary fiber that Head couldn't currently buy at much of an economy of scale (and that did not appear in the Agassi Limited Edition, for whatever that's worth as an indicator), the available carbon composite has changed in a quarter-century, the engineering requirements are more stringent for a light hairpin, and of course the weight distributions would be radically (heh) altered –- and all that would point to the current incarnation feeling quite different.
So, having hit only with some of the old ones, I'm interested if those who appreciate the classic Austrian frames think highly of the currently-sort-of-available ones... if, you know, anyone feels like talking about that.
^PT57A is made in China since ~2012. That is the tricky part of your question.
I have a couple of PT57A in Graphene Prestige paint and they play/feel just as good as all my other PT57A and Pro Tour 630/280
Ah, I see. Thanks for the info. I remember reading on these boards that the last bits of Austrian production were being phased out, but I never read that they finally did it. Seems a shame. (For variety-in-the-world and economic decentralization reasons, that is; I have no doubt about the capabilities of 21st-century Chinese OEMs.)
How about the Twaron, then? I always associated the distinctive way the 80s and 90s Prestiges shed vibration with the aramid fiber they included for vibe-damping purposes; they all had that distinctive feel, and so did Agassi's Rad OS, and no later Head frame did. Do they still use it for PT57 frames? Did they use it in the years after it was retired from retail frames but before pro stock production was concluded in Austria?
OP, if we've wandered too far from the center of the topic, just say so.
I have retail Pro Tour 280 made in Austria, Pro Stock PT57A with LM, FXP, MG, and Graphene paint jobs and they all play and feel the same. It feels like they have twaron but I don't know. I can break a string in my Pro Tour 280 and pick up my PT57A in Graphene Prestige Paint job with them feeling identicle to me.
I have a Zebra and a Candycane...first is a little bit heavier and more flexy, with more plow...second is stiffer, more power and less control....I like to buy a trysys...this was the ancient prestige mp for sure...and frames what pros play nowadays...Djokovic, Zverev, Murray and the 90% of the Head players...I've got two Head Ti. radical set up to 335-350gr...but I've to restring them and test
I have the Bumblebee and the Zebra Rad Tour MP's. IMO, the Zebra has lots more power and slightly less feel. I can absolutely crush the ball with the Zebra, even harder than I hit with my RF97's ---- it's unreal the power that frame has. The only mod was a leather grip, making them 10pts hl, and almost 13 ounces --- but, still sooooo maneuverable it's nuts.
They are the same racket, the candy cane was just an updated PJ.
The weight and feel is different... I can swear it cause I've got both strung with the same setup
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I agree, it may just be the ones we have but my candycane is lighter and lower swingweight as well as feeling softer in comparison to my zebra.
I can manage better the Candycane but more mutted and softer feel is for the zebra
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Yes, the candy cane and zebra are not the same despite what Head or others claim. I used the bumblebee and my friend used the zebra back in the 90's. When the candy cane came out, we tried it too. The candy cane was noticably lower in swingweight. Every single one in the shop we looked at was lighter. At least in the 90's when the racquet first came out, no one thought the zebra and candy cane were identical racquets outside of a paintjob.
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