Head Speed Novak Edition

bobeeto

bobeeto

Hall of Fame
everyone obviously has asked for Head to release a pt346.1 for the public so us bums can think we’re novak - but what if they did try to make a user friendly model in his “spec”?

Let me know what you guys think about this for a speed, would it suck or be great?

Speed Tour / Speed Novak
98” head (95 is too small)
310 weight unstrung
18x19 string pattern
22mm beam
RA 62


now i totally get why head doesn’t have one, it’s basically a radical pro on paper but i think it would be fun to see the speed mold in a form factor like this! what do you think?
 
bobeeto said:
everyone obviously has asked for Head to release a pt346.1 for the public so us bums can think we’re novak - but what if they did try to make a user friendly model in his “spec”?

Let me know what you guys think about this for a speed, would it suck or be great?

Speed Tour / Speed Novak
98” head (95 is too small)
310 weight unstrung
18x19 string pattern
22mm beam
RA 62


now i totally get why head doesn’t have one, it’s basically a radical pro on paper but i think it would be fun to see the speed mold in a form factor like this! what do you think?
Click to expand...

That would generally be panned as too low powered, I think. But maybe a good platform racquet like the ET.
 
You're basically describing a Prestige MP (formerly Tour)
99 sq-in head
18x19
21.5mm beam
66 RA
305g
The Tour versions were pretty low-powered and didn't have a great feel. Have not tried the Auxetic version.

I'd settle for the Speed Pro to shave 1mm off the beam and keep everything else the same. Maybe make it more HL, but a thinner beam would be my preference.
 
bobeeto said:
everyone obviously has asked for Head to release a pt346.1 for the public so us bums can think we’re novak - but what if they did try to make a user friendly model in his “spec”?

Let me know what you guys think about this for a speed, would it suck or be great?

Speed Tour / Speed Novak
98” head (95 is too small)
310 weight unstrung
18x19 string pattern
22mm beam
RA 62


now i totally get why head doesn’t have one, it’s basically a radical pro on paper but i think it would be fun to see the speed mold in a form factor like this! what do you think?
Click to expand...
At the end the public would request to release the actual version when you are not selling the same thing lol...
I think the mold the specs should stay the same like what he gets , We should just receive the hairpin of the racket with a set of HEAD Finest Calf Skin and 2 sets of Grommets :)
 
bobeeto said:
everyone obviously has asked for Head to release a pt346.1 for the public so us bums can think we’re novak - but what if they did try to make a user friendly model in his “spec”?

Let me know what you guys think about this for a speed, would it suck or be great?

Speed Tour / Speed Novak
98” head (95 is too small)
310 weight unstrung
18x19 string pattern
22mm beam
RA 62


now i totally get why head doesn’t have one, it’s basically a radical pro on paper but i think it would be fun to see the speed mold in a form factor like this! what do you think?
Click to expand...
It is either going to be the exact mold (95) and retail (TGK) layup or nothing...
It is not going to be something in between (a 98) and definitely not the PT layup...
 
If Wilson can sell the RF97A at 340g, I think Head can beef this up a bit more and sell something in competition with the VCORE Pro 97D.

320g
330SW
15 Twistweight
22mm beam
98 sqin (but using old Head measurements so it's actually a 95 for memes)
18x19
RA 64
0.1inches extended
 
dr325i said:
It is either going to be the exact mold (95) and retail (TGK) layup or nothing...
It is not going to be something in between (a 98) and definitely not the PT layup...
Click to expand...

I pray that this happens, selfishly, so I can finally get backup grommets for the 18x19!!!!
 
dr325i said:
It is either going to be the exact mold (95) and retail (TGK) layup or nothing...
It is not going to be something in between (a 98) and definitely not the PT layup...
Click to expand...
Do you think Head would ever do this? The Speed line has long been associated with Novak, but now so many others endorse it. Maybe it’s a good time to bring Novak’s specs to market?
 
Seth said:
Do you think Head would ever do this? The Speed line has long been associated with Novak, but now so many others endorse it. Maybe it’s a good time to bring Novak’s specs to market?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a Novak edition soon. Like you mentioned, it's no longer just Novak's racquet and I'm sure Head's aware of how popular the RF97 is. The Rafa Aero (even though it's just cosmetic) seems do be selling well too - I've seen a lot of Pure Aero users with at least one with the special PJ. It's not like Novak's just some random guy - he's the #1 and the rest of the big 3 have some sort of signature frame.

I'm just hoping a Novak Speed is actually to his specs. I don't think the average player will care if it's hard to use since it's all about the name. Wilson was willing to release the RF97A and the SW102 which are both beasts so I don't think accessibility should be a factor.
 
oh_ yuzzz said:
I wouldn't be surprised if we see a Novak edition soon. Like you mentioned, it's no longer just Novak's racquet and I'm sure Head's aware of how popular the RF97 is. The Rafa Aero (even though it's just cosmetic) seems do be selling well too - I've seen a lot of Pure Aero users with at least one with the special PJ. It's not like Novak's just some random guy - he's the #1 and the rest of the big 3 have some sort of signature frame.

I'm just hoping a Novak Speed is actually to his specs. I don't think the average player will care if it's hard to use since it's all about the name. Wilson was willing to release the RF97A and the SW102 which are both beasts so I don't think accessibility should be a factor.
Click to expand...
He's #1? I think you'll fine he is 7th in the ATP rankings.
 
oh_ yuzzz said:
I wouldn't be surprised if we see a Novak edition soon. Like you mentioned, it's no longer just Novak's racquet and I'm sure Head's aware of how popular the RF97 is. The Rafa Aero (even though it's just cosmetic) seems do be selling well too - I've seen a lot of Pure Aero users with at least one with the special PJ. It's not like Novak's just some random guy - he's the #1 and the rest of the big 3 have some sort of signature frame.

I'm just hoping a Novak Speed is actually to his specs. I don't think the average player will care if it's hard to use since it's all about the name. Wilson was willing to release the RF97A and the SW102 which are both beasts so I don't think accessibility should be a factor.
Click to expand...

I have one of Novak’s personal PT346’s, speed x gold/black anniversary PJ. Obviously untouched by me and all his mods/specs, overgrip…as is.

I don’t personally play at a 360sw, but I must say it doesn’t feel unmanageable when I swung it, not actually playing with it as it’s a collector piece, just a dry swing. The balance is really remarkable and I can see why it works for him. It doesn’t feel like a 360SW frame.

It would amazing if the Head used his mold and string pattern in a retail frame even if it’s not my everyday frame. I would buy it for fun without a doubt.
 
I don't know about you guys... but every racquet in my collection, once it touches my hands, turns into the Speed Novak Pro (PT346.1).

I thought that with the release of the Boom Pro, Head might have been doing a sneaky sneaky Novak release... but it wasn't to be once the official specs came out.

If it ever happens, I'll probably buy a few... but these days I've stopped hoping, found myself a couple of LM Radical Tour MPs, modified my Blade Pro into specs I like (approx. 360g strung, 314mm balance, 353 SW) - which I call my Wilson Novak Speed Pro/PT346.1, and modified my Extreme Tours to a spec I like (which is my "modern" Speed Novak Pro).

Good times.
 
dl32 said:
I have one of Novak’s personal PT346’s, speed x gold/black anniversary PJ. Obviously untouched by me and all his mods/specs, overgrip…as is.

I don’t personally play at a 360sw, but I must say it doesn’t feel unmanageable when I swung it, not actually playing with it as it’s a collector piece, just a dry swing. The balance is really remarkable and I can see why it works for him. It doesn’t feel like a 360SW frame.

It would amazing if the Head used his mold and string pattern in a retail frame even if it’s not my everyday frame. I would buy it for fun without a doubt.
Click to expand...

You lucky man!!!

I'd be hitting with that thing like there was no tomorrow (provided it's in playing condition).
 
dl32 said:
Haha, fortunately and unfortunately it’s mint.

If it were beat up, absolutely I’d hit with it. I just don’t have the heart give its nearly perfect.
I’m hetting it framed and hopefully signed one day.
Click to expand...

I gotta find myself a sweet looking kid to bat their eyes at Djokovic, so he can give them a racquet that they can then pass onto me. ;) :whistle::giggle:
 
Austrian point of manufacture will presumably pose problems for Head when it comes to providing retail replicas with the verisimilitude of the RF97A for example.
 
bobeeto said:
now i totally get why head doesn’t have one, it’s basically a radical pro on paper but i think it would be fun to see the speed mold in a form factor like this! what do you think?
Click to expand...

Basically you want Head to remake the liquidmetal series, which would be great!:) Basically the whole reason the nextgen haven't been able to stop him... is that racquet. I used the retail version modded until recently, where I switched to the Gravity Pro.
 
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Lorenn said:
Basically you want Head to remake the liquidmetal series, which would be great!:) Basically the whole reason the nextgen haven't been able to stop him... is that racquet. I used the retail version modded until recently, where I switched to the Gravity Pro.
Click to expand...

I’m personally a huge fan of 95sqi Heads.
I believe just about all of the old school retail 95’s were 1820’s.

That said, if you ever get your hands on 1619 95’s, PT113B, TGT231.3…they are special.

It’s a shame that it’s nearly impossible to find grommets not to mention the frames. CAP grommets work, but they make these frames too stiff with the exception of the PT57A 1619, which was designed for CAPs. 113b/346.1 or 231.3 in 1619, CAPs are not great.

Larger frames are not my thing I’m realizing. The 95 is just a really nice balance. The funny thing is if you put a 95 on top of 98, the size difference is negligible. But when I’m playing with a 98, it feels like I’m swinging a frying pan where as with the 95, it feels like a precision instrument.

Finally, my everyday frame is a PT113B in 1619. What I find interesting is the amount of spin I can generate exceeds what I generate with my extreme tour, spin grommets and all. It’s actually wild. The ball really explodes off the frame (340 SW, 322, 340 Static). On paper, it doesn’t seem like this should be the case, but it’s kind of wild that this 95 is so versatile. The obvious things, flat shots, precision….are a given. Really crazy on the spin factor. I expected better spin out of a 1619 vs 1820, but not the level I’m getting out of it. Good times!
 
dl32 said:
I’m personally a huge fan of 95sqi Heads.
I believe just about all of the old school retail 95’s were 1820’s.

That said, if you ever get your hands on 1619 95’s, PT113B, TGT231.3…they are special.

Finally, my everyday frame is a PT113B in 1619. What I find interesting is the amount of spin I can generate exceeds what I generate with my extreme tour, spin grommets and all. It’s actually wild. The ball really explodes off the frame (340 SW, 322, 340 Static). On paper, it doesn’t seem like this should be the case, but it’s kind of wild that this 95 is so versatile. The obvious things, flat shots, precision….are a given. Really crazy on the spin factor. I expected better spin out of a 1619 vs 1820, but not the level I’m getting out of it. Good times!
Click to expand...

The nice thing about being an Agassi fan is very little was taboo. Larger head sizes, different string patterns all were acceptable. SO switching from a 95 to a 100 was not problematic as I had already learned to change my swing with the 107 Princes. Liquid metal series is where I stopped upgrading as I didn't enjoy the microgels. It is scary how many good frames came out of the radical series and the 95 16x19 and 18x20 are something special. They are so surgical and just gives a player so many options. The flex of the frame and the rewarding sweet spot are just insane. I have a good collection of the frames, but just no longer found it fun to find parts. I still will play with them from time to time, but the Gravity Pro is my daily driver.
 
Lorenn said:
The nice thing about being an Agassi fan is very little was taboo. Larger head sizes, different string patterns all were acceptable. SO switching from a 95 to a 100 was not problematic as I had already learned to change my swing with the 107 Princes. Liquid metal series is where I stopped upgrading as I didn't enjoy the microgels. It is scary how many good frames came out of the radical series and the 95 16x19 and 18x20 are something special. They are so surgical and just gives a player so many options. The flex of the frame and the rewarding sweet spot are just insane. I have a good collection of the frames, but just no longer found it fun to find parts. I still will play with them from time to time, but the Gravity Pro is my daily driver.
Click to expand...
honestly i play some of the easiest and best tennis with my bumblebee OS. so fun. you’re right on the nose
 
dl32 said:
I have one of Novak’s personal PT346’s, speed x gold/black anniversary PJ. Obviously untouched by me and all his mods/specs, overgrip…as is.

I don’t personally play at a 360sw, but I must say it doesn’t feel unmanageable when I swung it, not actually playing with it as it’s a collector piece, just a dry swing. The balance is really remarkable and I can see why it works for him. It doesn’t feel like a 360SW frame.

It would amazing if the Head used his mold and string pattern in a retail frame even if it’s not my everyday frame. I would buy it for fun without a doubt.
Click to expand...
Oh man, your missing out..!!!

You need to let a ball touch the strings..it will be just fine. :)
 
dl32 said:
I’m personally a huge fan of 95sqi Heads.
I believe just about all of the old school retail 95’s were 1820’s.

That said, if you ever get your hands on 1619 95’s, PT113B, TGT231.3…they are special.

It’s a shame that it’s nearly impossible to find grommets not to mention the frames. CAP grommets work, but they make these frames too stiff with the exception of the PT57A 1619, which was designed for CAPs. 113b/346.1 or 231.3 in 1619, CAPs are not great.

Larger frames are not my thing I’m realizing. The 95 is just a really nice balance. The funny thing is if you put a 95 on top of 98, the size difference is negligible. But when I’m playing with a 98, it feels like I’m swinging a frying pan where as with the 95, it feels like a precision instrument.

Finally, my everyday frame is a PT113B in 1619. What I find interesting is the amount of spin I can generate exceeds what I generate with my extreme tour, spin grommets and all. It’s actually wild. The ball really explodes off the frame (340 SW, 322, 340 Static). On paper, it doesn’t seem like this should be the case, but it’s kind of wild that this 95 is so versatile. The obvious things, flat shots, precision….are a given. Really crazy on the spin factor. I expected better spin out of a 1619 vs 1820, but not the level I’m getting out of it. Good times!
Click to expand...
the Vcore 95D has more power than a pro stock frame with the same stability.

I don't string the last cross. It feels like it does something..lol. :)
 
I like the 95D and I still have 3 or 4 new in plastic.

That said, it needs a lot of weight to get really performing the way I like.
 
Does anyone have any sales numbers (even for a single pro shop) of relative sales between RF97 and the Speed? I see a lot of Speed racquets out there every year while the RF97 seemed to be common only for the first 2-3 years when it was released. Most players seemed to realize pretty quickly that it was too heavy and stiff for them with a small sweet spot.
 
socallefty said:
Does anyone have any sales numbers (even for a single pro shop) of relative sales between RF97 and the Speed? I see a lot of Speed racquets out there every year while the RF97 seemed to be common only for the first 2-3 years when it was released. Most players seemed to realize pretty quickly that it was too heavy and stiff for them with a small sweet spot.
Click to expand...
Don’t know exact numbers but at my buddies shop they sell dozens of speeds a month and even before they were pulled he sold about 5 RF a year.
 
As a more contemporary US comparison, how about Blades vs Speeds?
I see very few of either on the courts of my 9,000 member club; it’s all EZones, VCores & Aeros, despite the coaching staff having switched from Head to Wilson a few years ago. (Shrug emoji.)
 
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jmacdaununder2 said:
As a more contemporary US comparison, how about Blades vs Speeds?
I see very few of either on the courts of my 9,000 member club; it’s all EZones, VCores & Aeros, despite the coaching staff having switched from Head to Wilson a few years ago. (Shrug emoji.)
Click to expand...
In my club in the US, you see more Blades among older 4.0/4.5 men, more Speeds amongst younger 4.0/4.5 men and more Speeds amongst 3.5 men of all ages. Of course, you see many more Aeros in all the groups and more Pure Drives amongst the 3.5s. The women are mostly playing with Pure Drives and Yonexes with more of a sprinkling of Blades/Speeds etc. at higher levels. If I had to guess, I would say you would see more Speeds than Blades as there are more 3.5s than any other group, but Aeros/Drives are the bestsellers.
 
My main hitting partner has a Speed and a Pure Drive and sometimes he plays with one and sometimes the other. He's retired but he used to play with more old-school players frames 20 years ago.

I see more Pure Drives and Pure Aeros than anything else. There's a guy that plays with his sons and they use Yonex but they're the only players that I see using Yonex despite the popularity in the WTA and ATP. Retail availability is just poor for the brand.

I thought that the RF97 was a great idea and it has clearly sold well. I like the idea of Rafa's racquet though I have a hard time paying for something that I'd just use once and then put in my closet. It's a racquet that I'd love to try though I doubt that I would play with it.

Djokovic's real racquet is something that I might play with more than once.
 
socallefty said:
Does anyone have any sales numbers (even for a single pro shop) of relative sales between RF97 and the Speed? I see a lot of Speed racquets out there every year while the RF97 seemed to be common only for the first 2-3 years when it was released. Most players seemed to realize pretty quickly that it was too heavy and stiff for them with a small sweet spot.
Click to expand...
Well if you say “Speeds” you should add all Pro Staffs, not just RFs, into mix.

I guess the sell many more Speed MPs than they-say-Djokovic’s Speed Pros…

But anyway, Speed Pro is a great modern racquet, Speed MP is one of the best and widely suitable racquet today. RF97 is an artifact almost, or artifact replica more precisely.
 
Dragy said:
Well if you say “Speeds” you should add all Pro Staffs, not just RFs, into mix.
Click to expand...
My post was to address those on TTW stating that Head should put out Djokovic’s actual stick instead of having him endorse and be associated with the Speed line including all its models as is the case today. Federer used to be associated with the Prostaff line until they introduced the RF97 - after that he was associated only with the RF97. Before that, he likely helped sell all Prostaffs, but after the RF97, he likely helped sell only RF97s. The same thing would happen if Head introduced a Novak racquet as being the actual one he used - his effect on general Speed sales would go away and his name would affect the sales of only his actual stick. That is my opinion anyway.
 
socallefty said:
My post was to address those on TTW stating that Head should put out Djokovic’s actual stick instead of having him endorse and be associated with the Speed line including all its models as is the case today. Federer used to be associated with the Prostaff line until they introduced the RF97 - after that he was associated only with the RF97. Before that, he likely helped sell all Prostaffs, but after the RF97, he likely helped sell only RF97s. The same thing would happen if Head introduced a Novak racquet as being the actual one he used - his effect on general Speed sales would go away and his name would affect the sales of only his actual stick. That is my opinion anyway.
Click to expand...
I understand your logic, but I think you oversimplify marketing and consumer behavior. There are a lot of factors to it.

What we can conclude is RF97 definitely made its way to bags/basements of a lot of nerdy fans and wannabes. Like many of us. No single Speed frame could do it, as it wasn’t “his actual…”

Now if you talk wider tennis population, who you can sell Speed Team as Nole’s racquet… here you have Pro Staff 97UL just as frequently.
 
Why would Head put in all the money and resources to make a line devoted to a 97 Speed at Novak specs to sell only a few hundred? It's not like people are lining up to buy the Rafa origin as outside of collectors, people want racquets they can play with.
 
I’ve played with and own just about every iteration of the 113’s and 346’s. They are great frames and certainly more friendly than 57’s in my opinion. That said, it’s not going to help you much and its limits are your limits. No club payers hit with 95’s these days. A Novak reproduction would be a novelty only.

There are great playing retail frames like the gravity/speed/blade lines or more friendly pro stocks I prefer like the H22. Any extra help in the right places are welcome as I get up in age.

Just posted in the toroline string thread. Put a toroline poly/poly hybrid in a low RA 1619 H22. It was a beautiful combo in a raw frame like the H22.
 
dl32 said:
I’ve played with and own just about every iteration of the 113’s and 346’s. They are great frames and certainly more friendly than 57’s in my opinion. That said, it’s not going to help you much and its limits are your limits. No club payers hit with 95’s these days. A Novak reproduction would be a novelty only.

There are great playing retail frames like the gravity/speed/blade lines or more friendly pro stocks I prefer like the H22. Any extra help in the right places are welcome as I get up in age.

Just posted in the toroline string thread. Put a toroline poly/poly hybrid in a low RA 1619 H22. It was a beautiful combo in a raw frame like the H22.
Click to expand...
So you think TW should put the 2023 Prestige Tour & the Prestige Classic 2.0 in the can?
 
heavyD said:
Why would Head put in all the money and resources to make a line devoted to a 97 Speed at Novak specs to sell only a few hundred? It's not like people are lining up to buy the Rafa origin as outside of collectors, people want racquets they can play with.
Click to expand...
As mentioned elsewhere release the actual real deal without the lead dumbed down to the 4.0 level - as Babolat should have done with the Origin - and it will sell, and provide brand halo.
Purchasers can customise - or pay specialists to customise - as needed.
dl32 said:
Limited releases and I cannot imagine those lines are driving the P&L metrics.

Sometimes, you do limited drops for fans.
Click to expand...
No one has a problem with limited releases except the bean counters.
TO can't get enough Regnas to meet demand - and they're mighty expensive retail.
 
jmacdaununder2 said:
As mentioned elsewhere release the actual real deal without the lead dumbed down to the 4.0 level - as Babolat should have done with the Origin - and it will sell, and provide brand halo.
Purchasers can customise - or pay specialists to customise - as needed.

No one has a problem with limited releases except the bean counters.
TO can't get enough Regnas to meet demand - and they're mighty expensive retail.
Click to expand...
Personally, if they sold a real Novak, I’d prefer it be a true platform frame so you could make it yours.

That’s a hard sell however. Most people are too scared to customize or do it haphazardly and they don’t consider things beyond the basics at best. So they’ll add some lead, a leather grip and call it a crap frame because the didn’t consider the full range of metrics related to a specific player; MrGI, recoil weight, polarization for swing style…. bla bla bla to most. But all that needs to come together to really mate the frame to the player.

Don’t get me wrong, i think it would be cool to see a Novak. At best it would work as a limited drop without profit expectations. Pure marketing expense for Head promote the “coolness” of the brand or to simply honor Novak’s achievements.
 
If people think it's beyond their abilities to customise successfully they can always pay an expert; it's relatively inexpensive, especially considering the current cost of racquets.
 
dl32 said:
I’ve played with and own just about every iteration of the 113’s and 346’s. They are great frames and certainly more friendly than 57’s in my opinion. That said, it’s not going to help you much and its limits are your limits. No club payers hit with 95’s these days. A Novak reproduction would be a novelty only.
Click to expand...
Just curious, what “iterations” of the PT113B and PT346.x have you played with?
Do you mean string patterns or PT113B1, B2, C1, C2 and PT346.1 and PT346.2.

I can point a few of these that I seriously doubt you have tried since they are extremely rare. For example, there is only o e PT346.2 in 18x19 string pattern.
 
Hi Dr,

Mostly String patterns and some variations. Should have been more clear.

113 18/20 b1 b2. 346.1 16/19 verdasco and 346 18/19 without Novak logo. The 18/19 for example Came new uncostomized in the reverse speed 360 pj. The ones that are mostly white. Never took pallet of 18/19 to see if it’s a .1 or .2, but they came from good sources.

Probably fell off a truck in Europe but I didn’t ask questions. If I remember correctly, Novak never liked the mostly white frames and probably why some reached the market.

Also have a personal 346 in Speed X Black/Gold PJ, basically direct from his team. This one I’m hoping to get signed at Indian Wells to frame in a display case. Probably my favorite PJ of them all.

Good little stash and are fun to pull out every now then.
 
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