Head Tgt 345.1 anyone?
- Thread starter mattimag
- Start date
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
The TGT345.1 is the Graphene 360+ Prestige MP
mattimag
Rookie
Yes but it is the pro stock version and I would like to know if it's very different to the old prestige frame pro stock (293.2)
the_faceless_player
Hall of Fame
If I remember my Head codes correctly, TGT is the exact same as retail TGK just with the commercial weights removed from the handle for easier customization and consistency. It would be a PT345 that would make it substantially different. Might be off here, but @vsbabolat and @dr325i are the go to experts.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
Let me try again, the TGT345.1 is the Graphene 360+ Prestige MP. The only difference is the TGT345.1 does not have the commercial weights in the hairpin that the retail 360+ Graphene Prestige MP has. Other than that same racquet. Same layup. It’s very muted has a low flex and I quite enjoy playing with it.
mattimag
Rookie
any chance you can do a comparison between tgt 293.2 and 345.1?
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
Yes, the 345.1 is a true 98, has a 1mm thinner beam at 20mm wide, is more muted, and feels softer. Both are great racquets and have a nice feel. It depends on what you prefer. The 293.2 to me feels a little crisper
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@vsbabolat Can those commercial weights in the hairpin be easily removed and what’s their weight? I’m looking to create a Prestige 360+ S/ Auxetic 1 or 2 MPL of 280-285 gram.
The ones in the head you can't remove without destroying the racquet.
You can drill the weights out of the handle by opening/removing the buttcap.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
You can’t remove them.
Thanks! Am I correct in understanding that in the TGT hairpins the commercial weights in both the handle and the head are absent?
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
It’s in the hairpin that there is no commercial weights.
@vsbabolat
Just to be sure if I understand you correctly:
1. The hairpin of the pro stock/TGT/PT rackets does not contain commercial weight in the handle or head.
2. The hairpin of the retail/TGK rackets does contain commercial weight in the handle and head. And these commercial weights in these retail/TGK rackets can practically not be removed.
Is this correct?
I am asking because I am looking to ‘build’/have ‘built’ Head Prestige rackets (360+ S / Auxetic 1 or 2 MPL) weighing 280-285 gram for my son. If 1 and 2 are correct, the only way forward is finding hairpins of pro stock rackets (TGT) and then building it up to 280-285 gram, as opposed to buying retail racket (TGK) and stripping them (including stripping the commercial weights) to the hairpins and then building them up to 280-285 gram. The stripping of retail rackets (TGK) won’t work then because the hairpins of the retail rackets contain commercial weights that can practically not be removed.
Thanks for your patience.
Just to be sure if I understand you correctly:
1. The hairpin of the pro stock/TGT/PT rackets does not contain commercial weight in the handle or head.
2. The hairpin of the retail/TGK rackets does contain commercial weight in the handle and head. And these commercial weights in these retail/TGK rackets can practically not be removed.
Is this correct?
I am asking because I am looking to ‘build’/have ‘built’ Head Prestige rackets (360+ S / Auxetic 1 or 2 MPL) weighing 280-285 gram for my son. If 1 and 2 are correct, the only way forward is finding hairpins of pro stock rackets (TGT) and then building it up to 280-285 gram, as opposed to buying retail racket (TGK) and stripping them (including stripping the commercial weights) to the hairpins and then building them up to 280-285 gram. The stripping of retail rackets (TGK) won’t work then because the hairpins of the retail rackets contain commercial weights that can practically not be removed.
Thanks for your patience.
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DropvolleysRhard
Rookie
I think the weights are only in the handle. That’s what it appears to be in my pro stock vs retail speed pros.
If that’s the case, it would mean the pro stock TGT hairpin without the commercial weight in the handle would be severely head-heavy compared to a retail TGK hairpin with the commercial weight in the handle, and I guess therefore near to impossible to tune towards a light racket as it would always require added substantial weight in the handle to offset the head-heaviness, right? And, otherwise (when absence of commercial weight in the handle only would not lead to severe head-heaviness), the retail hairpin would have a very different weight distribution compared to its pro stock hairpin equivalent. This would lead me to believe that @veelium is right in stating that the commercial weights are in the handle and the head. @vsbabolat @dr325i What are your views in this?
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
I have seen the rackets made in KB and yes, they add weights in the handle and some in the head too (not a steel rod like in the handle)
DropvolleysRhard
Rookie
Makes. my pro stock XT speeds are 255g hairpins. I added pallets, leather grips and had to add probably15 grams of tungsten putty in trapdoor and several strips of lead on pallet to get them to 9 pts HL so that’s why I thought there was no weight in the head and that they would be very head heavy in hairpin form with no pallet or grip. But we now got conformation from an expert that there is weight in the head as well.
The speed pro prostock I have has substantially less SW and TW than the retail one on the other hand. Haven't had a prostock where this wasn't the case.
Maybe it depends on the model but from my experience there are weights baked into the head too.
Yes that’s what we concluded in the last couple of messages too.
Do you know what they use in the head?
1. ProStock TGT rackets definitely do not have a cap cover with a weight; pros simply don’t need one.
2. This cap weight (TK219HR) weighs 5 grams, you can carefully bite it off with clear cutters without damaging the cap itself, and no need to look for the regular TK219(TK186) cap.
3. The TGT345.1 and TGK345.1 matrices are very similar in feel in the game. This is probably the first time similar grades of carbon fiber were used in 1999 in both places.
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vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
The same carbon fiber is used in TGT and TGK. TGT293.2 and TGK 293.2 were the exact same frame just one is without commercial weights. True of many many other frames.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
You cannot remove commercial weight from a HEAD retail racket.
The one in the handle you can (with some work). Likely not the one you would want to remove though.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
Wrong again the layups on a lot TGK and TGT are identical just without commercial weighting which has NOTHING to with layups.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
If you want to ruin the racket.
Doesn't ruin the racquet, just takes out a slob of metal from the handle. Anyway, who cares.
DropvolleysRhard
Rookie
When I removed one once a large piece of graphite came off still glued to it.
How can they be identical if the hardness RA differs from retail rackets by 3-6 units!!? You seem to be such an experienced specialist, and you’ve probably been in production...
You may have tried to remove lead weights directly embedded in the graphite rim. We're talking about a weight in the cap in the racquet handle, any experienced stringer can remove it in a minute!
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
I know that in other makes with PU moulded handles, you often see a slug of metal within the PU. Apart from in the butt-cap, where and how are the weights attached in Head handles with pallets?
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
On retail and pro stock racquets I have measured stiffness that were same frames except one being pro stock and the other being pro stock they have been identical. An example is TGK293.2 and TGT293.2. Same racquets just one doesn’t have commercial weights.
Inside the handle, follow the middle strip of graphite when you open it.
I remember Babolat have them under the PU, haven't opened any other brand.
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
I've seen large slabs of metal in channels cut into the PU, and thin slithers that look like they've just been forced into it when drying. I guess it depends whether they are pre-arranged weights as part of the specs, or just final balancing additions. I would have thought the Head mods would be to pump silicone into the pallet, rather than risk have some metal rattling around, or do you mean the metal was inserted between the two hairpin pieces before baking?
This, I'm pretty sure. Silicone is for the pro stocks where they don't bake anything in.
DropvolleysRhard
Rookie
No, it was the slugs on the middle divider in the handle.
I’m wondering how retail (TGK) and Pro Stock (TGT) Prestiges relate to each other. On the one hand, I understand from @vsbabolat and @dr325i that TGT rackets are (just) TGK rackets without commercial weight. On the other hand, then I don’t manage to understand how, for instance, TGT345.1 rackets can be equivalent for the Prestige 360+ MP 2019 (TGK345.1), the Prestige Auxetic Pro 2021 (TGK345.2) and the Prestige Auxetic 2.0 2023 (TGK345.3), while several reviewers observe that when testing these three respective TGKs, they all three play and feel quite differently, i.e. more dampened and less stiff the newer the model is. @vsbabolat and @dr325i can you enlighten us?
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Not as knowledgable as those two but TGT334.1 is a mold and can come in different layups.
Also you probably you mean the TGT345.1 which is the prostock mold equivalent of TGK345.1 2 3.
For example I have a TGT312.1 which is an older mold and mine is a T4 (also written on the pallet), which if I understood correctly is the 360+ layup.
I imagine there is something similar written on the pallet for the different layup generations of the TGT345.1 corresponding to 360+, auxetic, or aux 2.0.
Also reviewers rarely match specs. Especially the often higher twistweight on the retail frames can change/take away some feel.
Someone correct me plz if I have misunderstood something.
To make things even more complex, within the 360+ range, the 360+ MP was the first in a TGK-series of TGT345.x-equivalents, i.e. TGK345.1, TGK345.2 and TGK345.3. But, within that same 360+ range, I was told, the 360+ S (TGK334.3), was the last in a TGK-series of TGT291.x-equivalents. (The successor of the 360+ S, the Auxetic MPL (TGK334.5) was the first in TGK-series of TGT334.x-equivalents.)
I’m trying to find out the exact TGT-equivalent (including the Tx) of the Prestige 360+ S (TGK334.3) for two of my children. For the third, I‘m trying to find TGT hairpins of these (or of the TGK334.5 or TGK334.7), so that the racket is light and he can thus use it. And I haven’t succeeded yet. Hence my digging. 
Any help is welcome.
Any help is welcome.
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DropvolleysRhard
Rookie
The pro stock version of the retail racket will be the same except for weights. Each of those you mentioned are the same layup as their retail counterparts. They are made in the same place. TGT 345.1 is the same as TGK 345.1 except for the weights. TGT pro stocks are not special except for being easier to weight to your specs.
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dr325i
G.O.A.T.
This is partially correct.
First, TGT334.1 is not a mold, it is the layup, part of it though. TK334 would be the mold for the frame.
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
As you pointed out, TGK345.1, 345.2, 345.3 and 345.4 correspond to 360+MP, Auxetic Pro, Auxetic 2.0 Pro and Auxetic 2.0 16x19 (small batch release in specific markets).
The TGT345.1 denotes the 18x20 pro stock version. It will also have the T1, T2 and T3 layups designators to differentiate between the 3 variations as some pros may prefer the 360+ layup with the latest PJ.
The TGT345.2 corresponds to the 16x19 pro stock and similarly, the Tx layups denote to which retail version layup.
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DropvolleysRhard
Rookie
Thanks for this info. I always thought the pro stock had alternative layups. Do you know which layup would correspond to the retail one? My guess would be the middle one so there is a softer and stiffer option.
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
They ALL have identical layups as the retail frames.
The TGK and corresponding TGT frames have identical layups, as mentioned above in the thread.
The feel difference comes from hollow handle vs silicone filled. Sometimes the RA measurements will vary between the TGK and equivalent TGT but that is purely due to variations between the frames
DropvolleysRhard
Rookie
What about the T1, T2 and T3 layups you mentioned. Are all three offered in the retail versions? Sorry I’m just confused on that part.
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
Yes, they correspond to 360+, Auxetic and 2.0 retail layups
