Head Ti S6: Am I the only stringer who hates them?

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by 10shoe, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    The first time I heard Led Zep's Stairway to Heaven I was really hoping it wouldn't get a lot of airplay. Now some 50 yrs later it's clear to me I'm not gonna get my wish. The same thing seems to be happening with the Head Ti S6. It looks like it's here to stay, dammit. And it seems to get worse every year, when they could be improving it instead.

    Am I the only one who sees this thing just keeps getting crappier?
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
    #1
  2. chrisingrassia

    chrisingrassia Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,065
    uummmmm........old people love those things.
     
    Smittithekitty likes this.
    #2
  3. jim e

    jim e Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    5,207
    You are correct that old hitters like them. Very light racquet.
    I don't care for the racquet to hit with, but to string them, it's a piece of cake.
    I string a number of those / year and it is one of the fastest to string.
    I actually like them when they come in to be strung. Its simple and does not take much time at all.
    Only a 16 main racquet and one of the few Head racquets you can string 1 pc top down if you prefer that as mains end at the head of racquet.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
    seekay and Rabbit like this.
    #3
  4. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,987
    Location:
    SF CA
    I see Wilson, Asics and Head fan shaped patterns once/twice a year from the same people. They're simple to string and I don't judge how well their owners play. They're just tennis racquets, so why should I hate them?
     
    #4
  5. graycrait

    graycrait Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,026
    Ti6 is really fun when weighted to 11oz about 2-4HL. Put some Ash Kevlar in the mains and Zyex crosses and listen to the lament coming from the spouses of the vanquished.
     
    #5
  6. Steve Huff

    Steve Huff Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    7,921
    Your feelings that they are getting crappier is probably correct. When HEAD finishes with a model, they sell the license to reproduce it. Places like *****, Big 5, etc (***** for sure) buy that license, but they are not obligated to make it the same. Obviously, they make it close in looks. Specs could be anywhere. Then, they sell them for $69.95. It's not the same as the original racket. Try putting grommets in it. Good luck with that one.
     
    #6
  7. jasonfoong

    jasonfoong New User

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    61
    Hate it, as in stringing?
    I strung quite a few using flying clamps (Stringway double & triple)
    No problem at all.
     
    Tennis_dude101 likes this.
    #7
  8. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I mostly string. But I have a smattering of new racquets here for folks who absolutely need a new racquet and don't want to spend a lot. It would be very easy to sell the Ti S6. But I don't because I hate them.

    1. I hate that a racquet with walls as thin as an eggshell has a tension range of 57-66 lbs.
    2. I hate trying to clean a racquet with this kind of finish.
    3. I hate that 7H and 8H are drilled so close together (and forced to support a double run of string) so that the graphite frequently collapses underneath.
    4. I hate that the grommet material is so thin that I have to tube every hole at the head or risk premature breakage. You guys don't inspect for rough holes on the outside of the bumper?
    5. I hate that after just one stringing (the factory stringing) the throat pieces are developing the same sort of holes I have been seeing at the head for years (see reason #4). This is the latest reason to hate them. None of you guys noticing #5? No string loops sticking when you are removing string? Here's a pic:


    [​IMG]
     
    R15 likes this.
    #8
  9. jim e

    jim e Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    5,207
    None of your issues to date, and I string a # of them/ year. I have never needed to tube one as yet as well!
    Then again,most of those racquets are older players that do not swing hard anymore so string breakage is minimal, as most of them just have restrung over time, and most are strung with the typical sun gut psgd 16g.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
    1HBHfanatic likes this.
    #9
  10. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    If someone does bring you a new TiS6 with the factory string still installed, please do pull out the throat piece and give it a look.

    In the meantime let me ask you a question. Suppose someone brought you a racquet today and you found the kind of wear shown in the photo in post #8? How would you address it? This is a throat piece in case that is not clear. Suppose they wanted Wilson NXT Power 18 at 63 lbs?

    1.Would you pretend the problem is not there and hope for the best?
    2. Prepare a lecture on how hitting off the frame edge causes shearing?
    3. Attempt to tube this throat piece? BTW, if this is your choice, I would love to see how you accomplish this.
    4. Cut up throat pieces from a collection of throat pieces you have accumulated over the years and piece them together?
    5. Tell the customer his brand new racquet needs a whole new grommet set?
    6. Install fittex grommets?
    7. Other?
     
    #10
  11. jim e

    jim e Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    5,207
    My response would be #5 as it was not my problem .
    I can suggest to string it if that's what they want and they take the risk, if they did not want option 5, noting it is their risk not mine, or tell them I can replace with fittex , and let them know I never seen throat piece damaged as such and would recommend new grommet set rather than a fix with fittex, although fittex has worked in many other racquets, but to be honest never used one in the throat grommet before..Would be sad to have to fittex a new racquet grommet.could even cut up an old throat piece and fit it in like a fittex, as I typically have a bunch of throat sections as they typically stay in good shape when grommets fail, so I usually save the extra throat sections.
    I have not seen this as yet, thankfully.To be honest I really don't look at throat grommets that close as they typically don't give issues, but if a racquet I have strung had that grommet, I would suspect it would have come back, and that has yet to happen.and I have strung a # of these.like I said most of the Ti S6 racquets are older hitters and they don't even swing that hard. I know many of them as when I hit doubles in summer months I call them the oldtimers group, and it is incredible that most of them have this racquet.
    It is easy enough to pull out the throat sections and reinstall so I will look next time.
    Most grommet issues are typically not with the throat pieces that I have seen. usually when I replace grommet sets the throat section still look okay.
    If I did see a grommet like you posted then I would let customer deal with it and give him the options listed and if was new racquet advised to contact seller.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
    #11
  12. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Well, as I said Jim, this is a relatively new problem. So the throat pieces on older models will probably be fine. If you see a new Ti S6 come in though you will probably see the problem on both the left and right of the throat piece. Personally, I have run out of used throat pieces I can put in there and have moved on to Fittex grommets. I can't see myself asking someone to shell out for a new grommet set on a new racquet. But I am surprised you don't find it necessary to tube at the head. The wear through up there has been going on for years.
     
    #12
  13. R15

    R15 New User

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2017
    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    UK
    I have one of these in...the racket has had factory strings and a set of syn gut, though I do not know the age of the racket, certainly not abused.

    I took the throat grommet out to have a closer look and sure enough there is a hole on either side in the same place as the picture above.
    No apparent damage to the frame (3x magnification).

    I have tried a couple of spare throat grommets and other than poking through a little further they fit OK so no panic.

    For me this is something useful to be aware of - thanks @10shoe.
     
    1HBHfanatic and 10shoe like this.
    #13
  14. jim e

    jim e Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    5,207
    One more thing to look out for.
     
    1HBHfanatic likes this.
    #14
  15. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    8,694
    my dad had this racquet... i had issues stringing it on a drop weight, as the walls seem really thin, and appeared to collapse in one area... i won't string it anymore.
     
    #15
  16. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Yes, exactly. One more thing on top of having to tube 10 to 12 holes at the top of the racquet and several minutes and several alcohol soaked rags trying to get the Hartru dust off.

    As I said, it would be easy to sell these racquets, I have plenty of older clients who like them and see new ones coming in all the time. Instead I offer them the Wilson Hyper Hammer 5.3 110. Not nearly as light but trouble free.
     
    #16
  17. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Long Island, NY

    Thanks for the confirmation.
     
    #17
  18. Steve Huff

    Steve Huff Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    7,921
    I just strung one of those. The throat grommets looked ok, but I did have to tube a few of the holes on the side and 1 of the tie off holes at the top. Part of the reason I think is that these are not "true" Head rackets. This is a long discontinued model where Head has licensed out the model to some sporting goods company like *****, Big 5, Sports Authority, etc. They get some company to make them as cheaply as possible and make them look like the original TiS6, but in reality, they aren't the same racket. They're cheap imitations. Find out where the racket was purchased. I'm betting that it came from one of the big sporting retailers listed above.
     
    Rabbit likes this.
    #18
  19. spdskr

    spdskr Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    175
    I have rejected a couple of these in the past because the upper hoops were worn so thin I could see through them. I wasn't going to risk having the frame collapse while stringing. While I haven't noticed the throat grommet problem, it doesn't surprise me. Each time I do string one of these frames, I'm amazed at their lack of substance.
     
    #19
  20. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,987
    Location:
    SF CA
    If I see or suspect problems due to wear, I will ask the customer if I should continue before doing so [cut out old strings, etc.] I will tell them the frame could break due to structural issues and that I would not do it unless they assumed the responsibility for the frame. Most say "Go Ahead"; others say "Don't Bother". Most players know when they are on borrowed frame time, so they're not that surprised by warnings or breakage.
     
    #20
  21. 1HBHfanatic

    1HBHfanatic Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Messages:
    1,647
    Yeah, im with most on this one; no real issue with these rakets in my history..
    I dont inspect rakets as much as I should, or with your diligence, but now I dont think twice about turning away a raket due to abuse..
    Example,, worn babolat bumpers guards and prince grommets... rrrg

    Dont stress over things that are not your doing,,,

    btw, OP, my nightmarish rakets are the prince O-ports, hate them thingss :mad:,,
    i have similar gripes about them, that you do about these :mad:
     
    #21
  22. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    3,472
    Location:
    Toronto
    Were any of these made in Austria? I think I have one of these somewhere in my stash
     
    #22
  23. Tennis_dude101

    Tennis_dude101 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    390
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    Piece of cake, I've never had a problem stringing Ti S6's on my Pro Stringer.
     
    #23
  24. graycrait

    graycrait Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,026
    I've strung these quite a few times mostly at 75lbs in the mains with Ashaway Kevlar using my Neos 1000, never had an issue.
     
    #24
  25. Wes

    Wes Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Messages:
    536
    Kevlar?... at #75?... in that beastly frame?? :eek:
    Careful there... you're approaching Shroud territory. :p
     
    #25
  26. R15

    R15 New User

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2017
    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    UK
    I assume you are not seeing any issues with Kevlar cutting through the grommets then? I ask because I have a string breaker* who has a pair of these things and I have suggested trying Kevlar / ZX hybrid next time as an alternative to moving to full bed poly, but this thread has sown the seed of doubt in my mind.

    *I have already recommended moving to something with a smaller head and denser string bed to help reduce the frequency of re-stringing, but he does not want to change (yet).
     
    #26
  27. graycrait

    graycrait Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,026
    Nope, My buddy has 4 of those Ti6's weighted up to 11oz, 2 strung with Ash Kev mains x Zyex crosses at 75/60 and 2 strung with Ash Kev mains and syn gut crosses at 75/60. No issues with the grommets yet and he has been using these for about 4 yrs. He loves to rip the ball with them. His brother was a major league baseball player with a serious batting average and his nephew is a NFL linebacker, no lack of muscle in that family. I string them when necessary. I also have an old retired professor acquaintance who swats at tennis balls using a Head iS12 strung with Ash Kev x Zyex at 75/60. I found the blue version of that racket, iS11, and strung it up for him and gave him the racket. He won't need a racquet or string job for a long time with that pair of Heads.
     
    R15 likes this.
    #27
  28. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I learned shortly after the Ti S6 was introduced why you should not string it with Kevlar.

    Typically, with a Kevlar hybrid, you string the mains 10% lower than the crosses. The purpose of this is to return the racquet to its original shape. Overcoming Kevlar's resistance to elongate requires additional pressure. My experience with the Ti S6 was that instead of returning the racquet to its original shape the Kevlar mains simply pulled through the walls of the racquet resulting in pulled holes especially at 7 & 8H.

    If you are instead dropping tension 20% on the crosses as your subsequent posts indicate I would expect you are ending up with a racquet that is shorter and wider than intended. If you are not distorting the racquets then I would be interested in knowing what method you use to determine whether the Ashaway Kevlar is sliding through your Neos clamps when you release the tension head.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
    #28
  29. graycrait

    graycrait Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,026
    One of these days I'll have my buddy measure his Ti6 lengths and the RH width. Then maybe someone can compare those measurements to a bone stock factory strung Ti6. Whatever the case I have hit with these "heavy" Ash Kev/Zyex strung Ti6s as well and it can be a lot of fun. We haven't had one break yet on the court or in the stringing machine - haven't had to tube or replace with a Fittex any grommets. Ashaway "braided" Kevlar is not like all the other coated stranded aramids.

    Prestretching it with a winch provides an interesting stringbed as does triple pulling. The highest I have strung Zyex in an OS frame is 86lbs, the limit of the Neos I think. I have used Ash Kev in many many rackets and have yet to have issues with it damaging a racket, but then I am only on my 4th or so reel of Ash Kev. I never string it less than 62lbs prestretched, most often depending on racket somewhere between 68-75lbs. Tension loss off the stringer can be pronounced, then 24 hrs later more and after hitting a couple of hours even more. Increasing tension on the last main on each side is a must and I think using a cam pliers and awl on the tie off can be helpful. Ash Kev x Zyex is an interesting string combo and I have it in a few of my own rackets.

    Lately I have become enamored with Tour Bite mains and Outlast crosses in the upper 40s lower 50s depending on racket. But for a "fire and forget" stringbed that offers comfort, some spin, durability and long term playability Ash Kev x Zyex is hard to beat.
     
    #29
  30. 10shoe

    10shoe Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    @graycrait

    I am familiar with Ashaway Kevlar. It has about as much clampability as a wool sock. I suspect you are not getting the lbs you are putting in. Again, what method do you use to check for string slippage?
     
    #30
  31. CosmosMpower

    CosmosMpower Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2014
    Messages:
    1,414
    I refuse to string these or any other goofy fan pattern racquets
     
    #31
  32. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,987
    Location:
    SF CA
    Only frames I refuse to do are racquetball frames, damaged frames or ones in need of parts. Will also turn down frames from complete strangers who managed to find out that I string for a hobby. 'The ones who want BBO and expect it back in 60 minutes' when I am in the middle of a tennis session AND a string which I don't carry. Your NEOS can easily do a S6 with the included flying clamp. :)
     
    1HBHfanatic likes this.
    #32
  33. Steve Huff

    Steve Huff Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    7,921
    I did 2 of them this week. No problem with the throat grommet.
     
    #33

Share This Page