Head Velocity

[Holliman]

Holliman, would you care to describe your level and style of play so I can interpret this thread and assess whether I'm going to give Velocity a shot (pun intended)?

I'm a 3.5-4.0 player that grew up playing tennis. Semi Western FH that relies on top spin. Two handed BH. My racquet of choice lately is the new Pro Staff 97S. I average 80-90 mph first serve and a kick second. I play 2-3 times a week.

 

[Traffic]

"That's an interesting statement regarding balls going long and the correction factor. "

I think I commented to you once "missing long was an aiming problem". I have re-thought that comment. Let's take me and Origin @55 for example. I am a control player, not a power player... so accuracy is kind of my thing. Has to be... that and low UE. So I take my usual cut at the ball with moderate topspin ... or go for a flat shot ... and it sails on me. Well... all players (but control players in particular) are adaptable creatures. If I played tennis for a month with only Origin @55 ... by the end of that month I would have adjusted my previous neutral swing to where it fit Origin @55. That was why my knee jerk comment ... I've played with a lot of strings ... you figure it out. But I now think that is not the way to go ... at least if you have a grooved neutral stroke. You are just getting back into tennis, so you haven't probably defined that for yourself yet. But I'm at the tail end of 40 years of control tennis. I'm learning new tricks (2hbh) and how to hit that damn @Limpinhitter flip ... and have longer strokes now ... but I bet my swing speeds are pretty close across the years. So why not match the string to me ... rather than adapt. It's not like we don't have a few string choices out there. So I withdraw my original knee JERK comment ... but more to follow no doubt.

btw ... my 2' x 3' ball machine targets (Home Depot cheap mats) were inadequate. I'm going to need BIGGER targets.

So after 5 hrs of play with the SG V1P, I'm starting to warm up to the differences from the 97LS. I've started to put more consistent topspin on my FH. And I have to watch my swing when I go for more of a flat shot…typically when I'm late or pressured back. But I've been slowly adjusting my timing and getting a bit of success.

So now…here's my question, if your balls are sailing a bit long, if you had a touch more topspin potential, would those same swings land IN? With pace and kick to boot? I'm finding that I don't have to swing out of my shoes with the V1P and yet, I have just enough pace to keep my opponent honest. (remember I play in the 3.5 realm) And when they do hit a heavy ball to me, I can time it on the rise and it doesn't hurt when I strike the ball (OMG, what a great feeling!!)

The specific opponent I've hit against is a strong 3.5 with strong TS shots both FH and 1HBH. And I've been able to go toe to toe with him (…except for reflex drills at net.)

 

[ByeByePoly]

So after 5 hrs of play with the SG V1P, I'm starting to warm up to the differences from the 97LS. I've started to put more consistent topspin on my FH. And I have to watch my swing when I go for more of a flat shot…typically when I'm late or pressured back. But I've been slowly adjusting my timing and getting a bit of success.

So now…here's my question, if your balls are sailing a bit long, if you had a touch more topspin potential, would those same swings land IN? With pace and kick to boot? I'm finding that I don't have to swing out of my shoes with the V1P and yet, I have just enough pace to keep my opponent honest. (remember I play in the 3.5 realm) And when they do hit a heavy ball to me, I can time it on the rise and it doesn't hurt when I strike the ball (OMG, what a great feeling!!)

The specific opponent I've hit against is a strong 3.5 with strong TS shots both FH and 1HBH. And I've been able to go toe to toe with him (…except for reflex drills at net.)

After 5 years of rpm, I find it strange to be thinking about strings again, particularly the power and control. But as soon as you leave the poly world, you quickly find out many strings under 55lbs will be to powerful. I am finding the following tradeoff:

1) on my perfect full groundstrokes with moderate spin ... I love the extra power. It feels awesome to have a little help with effortless pace.

2) I don't hit perfect all the time (only 99% ) ... and a racquet face slightly open with multi has more consequences. My misses with RPM in warm up never made my friend laugh. We both had a couple of good chuckles lately ... neither of us had seen me launch shots like that.

So there is no answer to "perfect power / spin string and tension". It's a tradeoff for everyone, particularly when arm friendly matters. I think a veteran control player like me can pick closer to the "extra power" edge ... and it can work in my favor. I think players still in the process of grooving strokes (we all are forever to some degree) ... should err towards control. That's more difficult to work out without full bed poly. Sometimes I wonder if the best safe choice for those grooving strokes is sg or multi @60lbs. To me, the #1 thing that would stunt full stroke development would be balls sailing. We start hitting shorter swings ... try to guide, etc. It takes a lot of reps to hit mostly sweetspot with full swings ... might as well give your arm a break during the "grooving".

Sounds like ZX might very well be a arm friendly poly for grooving tamed with sg. Your arm has voted ... and passed. I've never hit zx ... I might pick up your racquet with zx/sheep and sail the ball also.

 

[Traffic]

After 5 years of rpm,

I don't know that I have 5yrs of consistent play in my life. Just goof off at the local court growing up. Then walk onto HS tennis team. Then back to goof off at the local tennis court...though less frequently.

This is the first time that I've played consistently and with organized skills classes and match play. Not to mention all the knowledge available on the internet. So what I'm hearing is I need to stick with this setup or maybe a good multi and work on grooving my strokes. (Quit trying to take short cuts.)

This doesn't go well with picking up 3 different strings each month. But I guess we gotta do what we gotta do. BTW, Velocity is part of my latest order.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I don't know that I have 5yrs of consistent play in my life. Just goof off at the local court growing up. Then walk onto HS tennis team. Then back to goof off at the local tennis court...though less frequently.

This is the first time that I've played consistently and with organized skills classes and match play. Not to mention all the knowledge available on the internet. So what I'm hearing is I need to stick with this setup or maybe a good multi and work on grooving my strokes. (Quit trying to take short cuts.)

This doesn't go well with picking up 3 different strings each month. But I guess we gotta do what we gotta do.

My main point was 1) groove with controllable setup 2) within that ... don't hurt your arm.

You are restringing after a short time, maybe no string will hurt your arm.

I don't think anything you are doing is "short cutting". Your experimentation is all input to what is "controllable" for you... and comfortable. I would be the first to say @55 controllable is better than @60 controllable imo. Also ... it might help to know what your stroke goals are. I've never seen you hit, maybe you are full strokes on both sides. If so ... keep building off that. But lets say you have shorter strokes. I have played countless players with short strokes that would destroy most full stroke 4.0 (and many 4.5) players. It's a myth that rec players need to hit "the modern" or "ATP w/flip" to be great rec players.

 

[Traffic]

My main point was 1) groove with controllable setup 2) within that ... don't hurt your arm.

You are restringing after a short time, maybe no string will hurt your arm.

I don't think anything you are doing is "short cutting". Your experimentation is all input to what is "controllable" for you... and comfortable. I would be the first to say @55 controllable is better than @60 controllable imo. Also ... it might help to know what your stroke goals are. I've never seen you hit, maybe you are full strokes on both sides. If so ... keep building off that. But lets say you have shorter strokes. I have played countless players with short strokes that would destroy most full stroke 4.0 (and many 4.5) players. It's a myth that rec players need to hit "the modern" or "ATP w/flip" to be great rec players.

I'm gonna have to figure out a way to record my hitting session.
I had a bit of the modern FH going, but would start to hurt as I dialed up the pace. I've reverted back to more of the classic. I had a huge grin on my face watching the video of McEnroe's FH swing called a 3.0 swing.

Yeah, in terms of string time in my racquet, I'll cut it out as soon as I think some of the desirable properties are starting to diminish. As I mentioned, the cost of stringing is cheaper than court time. Although, with the weather getting nicer, court time is getting closer to free...

 

[392Hemi]

I played doubles last night with the full bed of Velocity and was impressed. It is right up there with my reigning favorite, Gamma Ocho TNT. I had been playing the Gamma crossed with OGSM at 54/49 but was a bit launchy, so at the advice of one of my instructors, I strung the Velocity at 56/54. I could have maybe gone 56/52 to get a little more pocketing and plushness, but then again maybe it needs another session to settle in. It's not at all boardy where it is, but just thinking where the ideal might be for me.

I will be hitting some singles with the wife tonight, so I will see how it plays on a more open court. I already liked it enough after 1 session to order a few more sets and will be trying it next crossed with Cream and with OGSM. And so I can do an apples to apples, I also want to retry the Gamma a couple pounds higher. So many strings, so little time.

As for the Gamma Ocho TNT, I encourage you guys to give it a try. On paper / spec with a stiffness value of 186 lb it appears that it would be harsh, but it is a very responsive and comfortable string. Kind of the V1 Pro of strings

 

[ByeByePoly]

I played doubles last night with the full bed of Velocity and was impressed. It is right up there with my reigning favorite, Gamma Ocho TNT. I had been playing the Gamma crossed with OGSM at 54/549 but was a bit launchy, so at the advice of one of my instructors, I strung the Velocity at 56/54. I could have maybe gone 56/52 to get a little more pocketing and plushness, but then again maybe it needs another session to settle in. It's not at all boardy where it is, but just thinking where the ideal might be for me.

I will be hitting some singles with the wife tonight, so I will see how it plays on a more open court. I already liked it enough after 1 session to order a few more sets and will be trying it next crossed with Cream and with OGSM. And so I can do an apples to apples, I also want to retry the Gamma a couple pounds higher. So many strings, so little time.

As for the Gamma Ocho TNT, I encourage you guys to give it a try. On paper / spec with a stiffness value of 186 lb it appears that it would be harsh, but it is a very responsive and comfortable string. Kind of the V1 Pro of strings

"As for the Gamma Ocho TNT, I encourage you guys to give it a try."

Noooooooooooooooooo

That's big praise for Velocity ... sounds like it was not a rocket launcher.

549 seems kind of high for tension on a cross.

 

[392Hemi]

"As for the Gamma Ocho TNT, I encourage you guys to give it a try."

Noooooooooooooooooo

That's big praise for Velocity ... sounds like it was not a rocket launcher.

549 seems kind of high for tension on a cross.

I felt very confident with the control of velocity. BTW, great name for a string (speed of an object in a given direction; i.e. controlled speed/power)

And Yeah I usually string crosses at 535-540

(meant to put 49)

 

[ByeByePoly]

I felt very confident with the control of velocity. BTW, great name for a string (speed of an object in a given direction; i.e. controlled speed/power)

And Yeah I usually string crosses at 535-540

(meant to put 49)

V1 Pro #1 Full bed Velocity @55
V1 Pro #2 Velocity @55 / Cream @50

I really need to get these thoughts out of my head.

I wonder if my full bed Cream ... or option 1 or 2 above play better at the 6 week mark. Not saying I would make 6 weeks with any of them, but assuming they all lasted to 6 weeks, which one is playing best for the duration?

I doubt I will beat cream full bed for my preferences, but I do like the fact that the setups above would be pretty close with the ball machine setup and match setup.

 

[Traffic]

V1 Pro #1 Full bed Velocity @55
V1 Pro #2 Velocity @55 / Cream @50

I really need to get these thoughts out of my head.

I wonder if my full bed Cream ... or option 1 or 2 above play better at the 6 week mark. Not saying I would make 6 weeks with any of them, but assuming they all lasted to 6 weeks, which one is playing best for the duration?

I doubt I will beat cream full bed for my preferences, but I do like the fact that the setups above would be pretty close with the ball machine setup and match setup.

Did you say, "hybrid?"

 

[ByeByePoly]

Did you say, "hybrid?"

Not a hybrid ... just different strings in mains and crosses.

 

[Holliman]

I've discovered something with my newest full bed of Velocity. For some crazy reason on my first racquet I decided to hit the strings with some silicone spray before playing. I've read about its advantages and thought I would give it try. I didn't notice any extra spin so I quit using it when I restrung my second racquet. Now my strings are moving like crazy and not snapping back like the first go round. I'm also noticing a bit more wear. I'm going to start using the spray again to see if I can get the snap back I experienced with my first stringing.

 

[Muppet]

Is natural color Velocity 16 softer and/or more elastic than the black color?

 

[ByeByePoly]

I've discovered something with my newest full bed of Velocity. For some crazy reason on my first racquet I decided to hit the strings with some silicone spray before playing. I've read about its advantages and thought I would give it try. I didn't notice any extra spin so I quit using it when I restrung my second racquet. Now my strings are moving like crazy and not snapping back like the first go round. I'm also noticing a bit more wear. I'm going to start using the spray again to see if I can get the snap back I experienced with my first stringing.

Not good ... I am a non-sprayer.

That said, most of other reviews including playtest gave thumbs up for strings staying straight. I get very little movement with ppc @6 hours ... but fairly tight string pattern.

 

[markwillplay]

Hell, I ordered a fee sets. I will try it after the ppc breaks. Cream did not work well for me in my POG.just did not like the feel and don't think the stick plays as well. I have played ppc for a while now so velocity should be interesting.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Hell, I ordered a fee sets. I will try it after the ppc breaks. Cream did not work well for me in my POG.just did not like the feel and don't think the stick plays as well. I have played ppc for a while now so velocity should be interesting.

I will be very interested in your ppc vs velocity comparison. I hope your ppc breaks quickly.

I got to hit with a friend a couple of days ago with both ppc and cream (about 6 hours on both strings). We didn't have a long hit, because rain was coming (and it did). I was reminded it makes a difference in testing strings and tension preferences whether or not you open a new can or not. I used to show up to USTA matches having to adjust quickly. I always open new balls for a match, but practice a lot with balls that were opened the last match. Also, I'm convinced Penn Pro Marathon used once are still better than all others new. Never seen balls last like them ... perfect for my ball machine.

Anyway ... long way to get to the fact in that hit ... ppc started to match cream control for me. Maybe getting used to ppc more, maybe because worked better with slightly deader balls, maybe because ppc plays more consistent @6 hours then Cream. I will play sets soon with new balls and Cream and check again.

I really like Cream and PPC. It looks to me like I would break ppc quicker ... notching happening quicker. If Velocity plays better than ppc with similar power ... that will be a great string. PPC takes me back to nylon years ... feels great.

 

[Holliman]

Played two sets yesterday. Went back to using Silcone spray. Strings barely needed adjustment.

 

[Holliman]

Not good ... I am a non-sprayer.

That said, most of other reviews including playtest gave thumbs up for strings staying straight. I get very little movement with ppc @6 hours ... but fairly tight string pattern.

I hear you. I'm normally not into gimmicky stuff but the spray really keeps the string snapping back and I can only think that's helping with spin. Even if it's not, it saves me from having to straighten my strings after every point.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I hear you. I'm normally not into gimmicky stuff but the spray really keeps the string snapping back and I can only think that's helping with spin. Even if it's not, it saves me from having to straighten my strings after every point.

The silicone probably helps you keep slice BHs low and skidding.

 

[Traffic]

So are we talking generic silicone spray you might pick up at auto parts store? Or hardware store?

 

[ByeByePoly]

So are we talking generic silicone spray you might pick up at auto parts store? Or hardware store?

Don't do it ... just say no to spraying. It's a gateway spraying ... next you will spray the balls with something sticky so those slippery strings grab the ball more. It will lead to pingping floating slice. Also ... get a little silicone on your hands and your racquet will fly out of your hand on an overhead and kill an opponent.

Downhill slide ....

 

[Traffic]

Don't do it ... just say no to spraying. It's a gateway..

Just gathering data points.
I was just about to string up full bed Cream until I just saw your post about the twinge.
Cream/Velocity is sounding pretty good...

At least until June when I can try gut/cream.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Just gathering data points.
I was just about to string up full bed Cream until I just saw your post about the twinge.
Cream/Velocity is sounding pretty good...

At least until June when I can try gut/cream.

Two things:

- I don't think Cream would hurt any elbow that wasn't already hurt/degraded. It's quite possible I would have had a twinge with full gut breaking back in to match play. I was hitting my full serve.

- the best way to guage a string is first play as full bed. If you already are locked in on a main ... then just trying different crosses makes sense. I'm afraid you are heading to the @Muppet rabbit hole of infinite hybrids.

 

[woodje12]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet but as a resident TW String Database data geek, I have to note the stats for this string are super compelling for the variables that I care most about anyway (these are for the 17 gauge):

Stiffness: 153.3 (on the very soft end even for multi's)
Tension Loss: 14.7% (about the least loss for any string granted multi's outperform poly here)
Spin Potential: 5.5 (better than just about any other multi and better than many, many polys)

When you combine that with a reasonable price and the anecdotal evidence on this thread about durability: winner, winner. This is going into my wife's racket as a hybrid next but I may have to think about it too...

 

[Muppet]

Two things:

- I don't think Cream would hurt any elbow that wasn't already hurt/degraded. It's quite possible I would have had a twinge with full gut breaking back in to match play. I was hitting my full serve.

- the best way to guage a string is first play as full bed. If you already are locked in on a main ... then just trying different crosses makes sense. I'm afraid you are heading to the @Muppet rabbit hole of infinite hybrids.

The problem for me here is that I've never narrowed it down to whether I prefer silver, red, or black polys for my main strings in my signature racquets. The three colors play differently and have a different feel. So I got the three different reels. Then comes zyex. So now I go 'round and 'round trying to decide which 2 setups I want to keep in my 2 MuscleWeave racquets. But I won't be getting another reel of Mosquito Bite. To damaging to the arm. Probably Red Devil 1.19 for less than half the price. That's if I decide that red is the way to go.

 

[ByeByePoly]

The problem for me here is that I've never narrowed it down to whether I prefer silver, red, or black polys for my main strings in my signature racquets. The three colors play differently and have a different feel. So I got the three different reels. Then comes zyex. So now I go 'round and 'round trying to decide which 2 setups I want to keep in my 2 MuscleWeave racquets. But I won't be getting another reel of Mosquito Bite. To damaging to the arm. Probably Red Devil 1.19 for less than half the price. That's if I decide that red is the way to go.

Like I said

 

[scotus]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet but as a resident TW String Database data geek, I have to note the stats for this string are super compelling for the variables that I care most about anyway (these are for the 17 gauge):

Stiffness: 153.3 (on the very soft end even for multi's)
Tension Loss: 14.7% (about the least loss for any string granted multi's outperform poly here)
Spin Potential: 5.5 (better than just about any other multi and better than many, many polys)

When you combine that with a reasonable price and the anecdotal evidence on this thread about durability: winner, winner. This is going into my wife's racket as a hybrid next but I may have to think about it too...

There's one string almost never mentioned with even better numbers: Gosen AK Control 17.

I will be testing it out in a few days.

 

[Traffic]

Two things:

- I don't think Cream would hurt any elbow that wasn't already hurt/degraded. It's quite possible I would have had a twinge with full gut breaking back in to match play. I was hitting my full serve.

- the best way to guage a string is first play as full bed. If you already are locked in on a main ... then just trying different crosses makes sense. I'm afraid you are heading to the @Muppet rabbit hole of infinite hybrids.

So here is my latest dilemma:

Do I keep full bed Cream constant to compare my experience with yours? (full bed Cream in a V1Pro) Or do I keep OGSM in the cross as a constant to the 7 different poly I've crossed with for comparison?

 

[Muppet]

There's one string almost never mentioned with even better numbers: Gosen AK Control 17.

I will be testing it out in a few days.

I have AK Pro 17 in my signature racquet w/Black Force crosses @56/51. I haven't tried it yet, but it feels really good. I also tried AK Pro 17 in the crosses with a Black Magic main @50/53. In the same racquet, there was early onset notching, but it had a very solid feel. When we have better weather I'll take the AK/BF racquet out for a practice.

 

[hotasice]

can someone here comment on what Velocity feels like on impact? ie. soft/mushy versus crispy

 

[ByeByePoly]

So here is my latest dilemma:

Do I keep full bed Cream constant to compare my experience with yours? (full bed Cream in a V1Pro) Or do I keep OGSM in the cross as a constant to the 7 different poly I've crossed with for comparison?

Easy ... my experience doesn't matter. Work on yours .. whatever that is.

Say again what you are looking for that zx/sheep ain't doing right ... other than not handling the pingpong floating slice.

All things being equal, would you rather end up with a hybrid, or full bed... or does it matter. I was always full bed x @ tension y. KISS method.

Edit:
I thought about this. My guess is zx is to powerful for you as a main. Most of the zx main guys need it because they are major string breakers. If I remember correctly, you did zx as a more arm friendly durable main than poly. So cream/sheep might very well be the smartest first test. When I was joking in an earlier post to "keep that sheep away from the Cream" ... I was thinking it might not help with "arm friendly". Cream is stiffness 178+ ... less than many syn guy. Just looked up sheep 16 ... 163. Even though Cream was suppose to maintain play-ability longer than most soft poly... you would have to bet on the sheep for longest play. Then again... you restring every 4 days ... won't matter. The Cream stays straight... I'm guessing you will get less spin with cream/sheep than full be cream.

I think you want "max spinny" .... Cream is not going to match stiff textured poly main. You might as well just mail me the Cream.

btw ... I live in a very humid state, and the coated VS handled it fine the end of last summer and fall. I have heard comments here unless you are playing on wet clay, the coated guts hold up pretty well, even in humidity. I'm about to find out. Racquet is as stringer now ... tonic 16g @55/Cream @50.

 

[ByeByePoly]

can someone here comment on what Velocity feels like on impact? ie. soft/mushy versus crispy

From original TW playtest:

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/head-velocity.586942/#post-11113600

 

[ByeByePoly]

So here is my latest dilemma:

Do I keep full bed Cream constant to compare my experience with yours? (full bed Cream in a V1Pro) Or do I keep OGSM in the cross as a constant to the 7 different poly I've crossed with for comparison?

It occurs to me I could coach you on singles tactics ... but you could coach me on hybrids. You have been a busy guy since Jan. So you tell me the difference you expect between full bed Cream vs Cream/Sheep.

 

[Traffic]

It occurs to me I could coach you on singles tactics ... but you could coach me on hybrids. You have been a busy guy since Jan. So you tell me the difference you expect between full bed Cream vs Cream/Sheep.

We all have different needs. One of my primary needs is to support my JR player with proper equipment.
I started down the poly/sgut road as a result of putting a rev limiter on strings. Specifically poly strings. I do believe a full bed of poly will yield performance benefits beyond a hybrid for the right player. I think for my son, he could possibly hit better with full bed of poly. But that would also entail vigilant monitoring of duration and tension of his strings. And I think it can be done. But...

With a hybrid, I know that the performance of the string combo will most likely fall before the dangers of hitting with dead poly surfaces. So if we don't re-string in time, it's ok. Performance suffers, but arms shouldn't. Cream is comfortable. But Cream is still a poly and subject to the dark side of poly.

A secondary benefit (and a really good one at that) is that by crossing any poly with an inexpensive sgut, I am able to experiment with different strings for essentially half the price. Let's take the example of Cream:
If I were to use full bed, then I have committed a full set to a single tension. Depending on my impression, I may want to string again at a higher/lower tension to confirm. It will cost me two sets of Cream to confirm whether I like it, or I only like it at XX tension. If I like, then order more.
With a hybrid, I can get two stringings and thus two tries at the correct tension to rule yay or nay. If it is a yay, I can keep playing with the acceptable hybrid performance or I can venture into getting the full impact with a full bed.

Again, my primary goal is the right equipment for my junior player. My needs come second.

Having said that, I don't think I'd be using Cream for my son. He's onto Cyclone and HyperG hybrid. Restring every other week. It's possible he can get double the life if he went full bed and most likely get a bit more performance with negligible comfort issues. Again, IF we are vigilant in cutting his strings on time.

But the third benefit is by having the sgut help tone down some of the performance, it helps him stay focused on good technique and not relying on his spin monster strings to bail him out. Maybe halfway through his HS tennis, we can take the rev limiter off and let him go for whatever top performance is available...

Now. If I didn't have a Junior player in the house. I'd be less inclined to hold the line on hybrids.

My guess is that having a slick cross with durable surface would provide a bit more spin, comfort in a different manner and possibly more durability for the average player. I still wonder about the playability if you don't use a lot of spin? Now you have two strings with 170 stiffness instead of one at 170 and one at 145.

So now that I've made a short story long, I think while I am experimenting and gathering data, I may hold the line on hybrid setup. Then once I've got to a point where I really, really like a string, I'd like to try full bed at least once. Then I can decide if I keep going full bed factoring performance, cost, durability, comfort.

One gotcha that I need to express is that some strings may not work well in hybrid form. I found my results with Cyclone Tour to be bad while I've heard some others find it to be fantastic. It may be that there is quite a difference in performance from full bed to hybrid.

 

[ByeByePoly]

We all have different needs. One of my primary needs is to support my JR player with proper equipment.
I started down the poly/sgut road as a result of putting a rev limiter on strings. Specifically poly strings. I do believe a full bed of poly will yield performance benefits beyond a hybrid for the right player. I think for my son, he could possibly hit better with full bed of poly. But that would also entail vigilant monitoring of duration and tension of his strings. And I think it can be done. But...

With a hybrid, I know that the performance of the string combo will most likely fall before the dangers of hitting with dead poly surfaces. So if we don't re-string in time, it's ok. Performance suffers, but arms shouldn't. Cream is comfortable. But Cream is still a poly and subject to the dark side of poly.

A secondary benefit (and a really good one at that) is that by crossing any poly with an inexpensive sgut, I am able to experiment with different strings for essentially half the price. Let's take the example of Cream:
If I were to use full bed, then I have committed a full set to a single tension. Depending on my impression, I may want to string again at a higher/lower tension to confirm. It will cost me two sets of Cream to confirm whether I like it, or I only like it at XX tension. If I like, then order more.
With a hybrid, I can get two stringings and thus two tries at the correct tension to rule yay or nay. If it is a yay, I can keep playing with the acceptable hybrid performance or I can venture into getting the full impact with a full bed.

Again, my primary goal is the right equipment for my junior player. My needs come second.

Having said that, I don't think I'd be using Cream for my son. He's onto Cyclone and HyperG hybrid. Restring every other week. It's possible he can get double the life if he went full bed and most likely get a bit more performance with negligible comfort issues. Again, IF we are vigilant in cutting his strings on time.

But the third benefit is by having the sgut help tone down some of the performance, it helps him stay focused on good technique and not relying on his spin monster strings to bail him out. Maybe halfway through his HS tennis, we can take the rev limiter off and let him go for whatever top performance is available...

Now. If I didn't have a Junior player in the house. I'd be less inclined to hold the line on hybrids.

My guess is that having a slick cross with durable surface would provide a bit more spin, comfort in a different manner and possibly more durability for the average player. I still wonder about the playability if you don't use a lot of spin? Now you have two strings with 170 stiffness instead of one at 170 and one at 145.

So now that I've made a short story long, I think while I am experimenting and gathering data, I may hold the line on hybrid setup. Then once I've got to a point where I really, really like a string, I'd like to try full bed at least once. Then I can decide if I keep going full bed factoring performance, cost, durability, comfort.

One gotcha that I need to express is that some strings may not work well in hybrid form. I found my results with Cyclone Tour to be bad while I've heard some others find it to be fantastic. It may be that there is quite a difference in performance from full bed to hybrid.

Like I said ... you know WAY more about strings. That kid made dad go to string boot camp. Does he read your posts?

The two times I tried hybrid ... rpm/sg ... pro line 2/sg ... I didn't see the point. I got max ts with full rpm, and very little with rpm/sg. That said ... pros hybrid ... obviously works for the elite.

Great reply ... lots of string research happening at the Traffic house.

fyi ... when I told my stringer tonic/cream ... he shook his head and said that is an expensive mistake.

 

[Traffic]

Does he read your posts?

No. But I think he's developed a level of trust as he knows I go full dive gear head on our equipment.

The two times I tried hybrid ... rpm/sg ... pro line 2/sg ... I didn't see the point. I got max ts with full rpm, and very little with rpm/sg. That said ... pros hybrid ... obviously works for the elite.

Not saying it would have made any difference, but it's possible you could have traded a bit less TS for a bit more comfort and a sort of "fuse" to have your strings visibly worn or performance falling away from strings locking to tell you to restring again sooner. So RPM can hit 0-60mph in 5 sec. But with hybrid, you do it in 7 sec. The trade off is if you can accept 7, you don't destroy your transmission.

fyi ... when I told my stringer tonic/cream ... he shook his head and said that is an expensive mistake.

Ouch! I'm about a month out from trying that experiment (VS Team/soft poly like Cream)

 

[ByeByePoly]

No. But I think he's developed a level of trust as he knows I go full dive gear head on our equipment.


Not saying it would have made any difference, but it's possible you could have traded a bit less TS for a bit more comfort and a sort of "fuse" to have your strings visibly worn or performance falling away from strings locking to tell you to restring again sooner. So RPM can hit 0-60mph in 5 sec. But with hybrid, you do it in 7 sec. The trade off is if you can accept 7, you don't destroy your transmission.

Ouch! I'm about a month out from trying that experiment (VS Team/soft poly like Cream)

I played with RPM 3+ months ...

 

[Traffic]

I played with RPM 3+ months ...

Water under bridge.

Full bed soft poly for you if you can for max ts in comfort, control racquet. And you know not to leave in too long. Or the only real hybrid to try is gut/soft poly.

I still need to develop my strokes just a bit before I run to the spinny strings.

 

[Holliman]

can someone here comment on what Velocity feels like on impact? ie. soft/mushy versus crispy

More on the soft side mushy side and less on the crisp. Depends a lot on the the tension too. My only experience is at 53-55 pounds.

 

[Holliman]

So are we talking generic silicone spray you might pick up at auto parts store? Or hardware store?

Yep. It works like a charm to keep the strings lubed up and snapping back into place.

 

[Roketz]

Does it make sense to use Velocity in a hybrid setup (Velocity/Syngut) for better snap back effect?

 

[Holliman]

Does it make sense to use Velocity in a hybrid setup (Velocity/Syngut) for better snap back effect?

I really don't think it's necessary. Velocity black snaps back pretty well on its on.

 

[Roketz]

Holliman, thanks!

 

[Traffic]

Does it make sense to use Velocity in a hybrid setup (Velocity/Syngut) for better snap back effect?

Is your question to use Sgut to get more snap-back for Velocity or use Velocity to get more snap-back for the Sgut? The former doesn't make sense but could Velocity be used as a cross for Sgut since Sgut essentially has not snap back?

 

[Traffic]

So I just got done stringing my PS97LS with full bed Velocity 58/57. I'm not sure why I decided to string so tight. But I guess never having played with multi before, I followed a general guide of going a little tighter than middle range with multi, middle with sgut and lower with poly. I like sgut around 54#. So I figured I'd go 58 with the multi and then 57 in the cross to let it pocket a little better. At least it sounds good…

We'll see how it plays. My son just strung his racquet with HyperG18/OGSM @ 49/53 (the other racquet with 47/52 didn't feel as good). So we'll probably be just hitting drills and swapping racquets around to see how they compare. I'll have my V1Pro with Cream/OGSM in the mix as well.

While stringing, it did feel a bit softer than sgut. Not necessarily slippery. But maybe that's just the coating on the OGSM. Once you get past the coating and hit the actual jacketing of the string, it may be different.

 

[392Hemi]

So I just got done stringing my PS97LS with full bed Velocity 58/57. I'm not sure why I decided to string so tight. But I guess never having played with multi before, I followed a general guide of going a little tighter than middle range with multi, middle with sgut and lower with poly. I like sgut around 54#. So I figured I'd go 58 with the multi and then 57 in the cross to let it pocket a little better. At least it sounds good…

We'll see how it plays. My son just strung his racquet with HyperG18/OGSM @ 49/53 (the other racquet with 47/52 didn't feel as good). So we'll probably be just hitting drills and swapping racquets around to see how they compare. I'll have my V1Pro with Cream/OGSM in the mix as well.

While stringing, it did feel a bit softer than sgut. Not necessarily slippery. But maybe that's just the coating on the OGSM. Once you get past the coating and hit the actual jacketing of the string, it may be different.

I did velocity at 56/54, basically "straddling" my mid value. Works nicely for me.

Coincidentally, just strung my sons Ultra 100 with Hyper G 18/CoFocus 17L. He'll try it out later today

 

[Traffic]

I got a chance to hit with Velocity in a 97LS. Not bad. Good pocketing, comfort and control. Pretty much zero power strung at 58/57. But it didn't play as stiff as I thought it was going to be. I actually found I needed to swing harder to get the ball to the other baseline. Serves were going in nicely. For a minute there, I was tempted to come back to the 97LS for this next round of Flights. But I think I'll just use today as a good reference for if I need to pick up this racquet as a back-up. But I may add a few sets of Velocity into the inventory as well as look into PPC and V-wrap. Since I'm not a string breaker, the multis might be a good option to continue looking into.

I pretty much ran out of steam before the end of the four time. I had gone mountain biking in the morning, so didn't have much in the tank to go up against my son.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I got a chance to hit with Velocity in a 97LS. Not bad. Good pocketing, comfort and control. Pretty much zero power strung at 58/57. But it didn't play as stiff as I thought it was going to be. I actually found I needed to swing harder to get the ball to the other baseline. Serves were going in nicely. For a minute there, I was tempted to come back to the 97LS for this next round of Flights. But I think I'll just use today as a good reference for if I need to pick up this racquet as a back-up. But I may add a few sets of Velocity into the inventory as well as look into PPC and V-wrap. Since I'm not a string breaker, the multis might be a good option to continue looking into.

I pretty much ran out of steam before the end of the four time. I had gone mountain biking in the morning, so didn't have much in the tank to go up against my son.

Spin?

 

[Traffic]

Tough to say with limited play time. I think it's definitely more than full sgut.

Not as much as full shaped poly. But poly/sgut hybrid? Hmm...I'd say it's pretty close with a nod to the hybrid.

I think I need to try it again at a lower tension.

The LS with velocity has more spin than V1pro with Cream/sgut though.

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