Healthy serve style

FCarmo

New User
Hi people.... I'm recovering from GRID on shoulder because bad technique on serve...I was using a platform stance and I've three months to recover and comeback to tennis...
Do you recommend me any 'easy' (and healthier haha) pro´s player technique in platform stance
 
This seems more a question for your physical therapist or an athletic trainer. Someone who understands the mechanics of how a shoulder is supposed to work needs to look at what you do and help you make the corrections.
 

kaninfaan

Rookie
Hi people.... I'm recovering from GRID on shoulder because bad technique on serve...I was using a platform stance and I've three months to recover and comeback to tennis...
Do you recommend me any 'easy' (and healthier haha) pro´s player technique in platform stance
Usually, at least in my neck of the woods, a GIRD diagnosis is followed by 6 months rest from absolutely everything aka no throwing/serving/training/whatever, not even physical therapy, and then re-evaluate the injury.
Say another six months for therapy/rehab and trying to learn a non-injurious motion and another year to regain lost strength and imprint the motion.
fwiw

<!--edited because I could not spell GIRD the first time around. :p-->
 
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D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
except from finding an expert that knows about GIRD(?) and serving mechanics...
i personally would resort to learning to serve underhand or lefty to avoid exacerbating the issue.
 
.... I'm recovering from GRID on shoulder because bad technique on serve...I was using a platform stance and I've three months to recover and comeback to tennis...............
No experience with GIRD.

Here is a publication on GIRD.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3811728/

GLENOHUMERAL MOTION DEFICITS: FRIEND OR FOE?

"Abstract
In most shoulder conditions a loss of glenohumeral motion results in shoulder performance impairments. However, in the overhead athlete loss of glenohumeral internal rotation, termed glenohumeral internal rotation deficiency (GIRD), is a normal phenomenon that should be expected. Without a loss of glenohumeral internal rotation the overhead athlete will not have the requisite glenohumeral external rotation needed to throw a baseball at nearly 100 miles per hour, or serve a tennis ball at velocities of 120 miles per hour or more. Not all GIRD is pathologic.

The authors of this manuscript have defined two types of GIRD; one that is normal and one that is pathologic. Anatomical GIRD (aGIRD) is one that is normal in overhead athletes and is characterized by a loss of internal rotation of less than 18°‐20° with symmetrical total rotational motion (TROM) bilaterally. Pathologic GIRD (pGIRD) is when there is a loss of glenohumeral internal rotation greater than 18°‐20° with a corresponding loss of TROM greater than 5° when compared bilaterally. A more problematic motion restriction may be that of a loss of TROM in the glenohumeral joint. Recent evidence supports that a loss of TROM is predictive of future injury to the shoulder in professional athletes. Additionally, external rotation deficiency (ERD), the difference between external rotation (ER) of the throwing shoulder and the non‐throwing shoulder of less than 5°, may be another predictor of future shoulder injury and disability."




Have you been diagnosed with pathological GIRD as they describe it?

Do you have the second injury/symptom (TROM) that makes GIRD more concerning as described by the authors?
 

FCarmo

New User
No experience with GIRD.

Here is a publication on GIRD.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3811728/

GLENOHUMERAL MOTION DEFICITS: FRIEND OR FOE?

"Abstract
In most shoulder conditions a loss of glenohumeral motion results in shoulder performance impairments. However, in the overhead athlete loss of glenohumeral internal rotation, termed glenohumeral internal rotation deficiency (GIRD), is a normal phenomenon that should be expected. Without a loss of glenohumeral internal rotation the overhead athlete will not have the requisite glenohumeral external rotation needed to throw a baseball at nearly 100 miles per hour, or serve a tennis ball at velocities of 120 miles per hour or more. Not all GIRD is pathologic.

The authors of this manuscript have defined two types of GIRD; one that is normal and one that is pathologic. Anatomical GIRD (aGIRD) is one that is normal in overhead athletes and is characterized by a loss of internal rotation of less than 18°‐20° with symmetrical total rotational motion (TROM) bilaterally. Pathologic GIRD (pGIRD) is when there is a loss of glenohumeral internal rotation greater than 18°‐20° with a corresponding loss of TROM greater than 5° when compared bilaterally. A more problematic motion restriction may be that of a loss of TROM in the glenohumeral joint. Recent evidence supports that a loss of TROM is predictive of future injury to the shoulder in professional athletes. Additionally, external rotation deficiency (ERD), the difference between external rotation (ER) of the throwing shoulder and the non‐throwing shoulder of less than 5°, may be another predictor of future shoulder injury and disability."



Have you been diagnosed with pathological GIRD as they describe it?

Do you have the second injury/symptom (TROM) that makes GIRD more concerning as described by the authors?
thks for the info!

...I do the test and it seems that i loss of internal rotation of 20-25° aprox and loss of TROM greater than 5°, my god....that´s bad no? :(
 
thks for the info!

...I do the test and it seems that i loss of internal rotation of 20-25° aprox and loss of TROM greater than 5°, my god....that´s bad no? :(
I don't know.

How are you accurately measuring these joint locations?
 
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StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
You got any old video of your serve motion?
Are you seeing someone about this? Sounds pretty bad.

I just recovered from tennis elbow with very intense massage (pushing my elbow muscle into a desk and then moving my wrist around), stretching and very intense exercise (working forearm to fatigue)... as well as a racquet change and 2 weeks of total non-playing. My shoulder didn't feel great either, but it seems the rest was fine for that. I think my racquet sent vibrations all the way through my arm. Damn you, babbolat.
 

beltsman

Legend
Hi people.... I'm recovering from GRID on shoulder because bad technique on serve...I was using a platform stance and I've three months to recover and comeback to tennis...
Do you recommend me any 'easy' (and healthier haha) pro´s player technique in platform stance
Underhand
 

FCarmo

New User
You got any old video of your serve motion?
Are you seeing someone about this? Sounds pretty bad.

I just recovered from tennis elbow with very intense massage (pushing my elbow muscle into a desk and then moving my wrist around), stretching and very intense exercise (working forearm to fatigue)... as well as a racquet change and 2 weeks of total non-playing. My shoulder didn't feel great either, but it seems the rest was fine for that. I think my racquet sent vibrations all the way through my arm. Damn you, babbolat.
Hi! I uploaded a video from 1 year ago...
 
Hi! I uploaded a video from 1 year ago...
The frame rate is slow. I can't tell if you are doing ISR properly. Looks from the elbow bones as if your upper arm rotated before impact, I guess. But does the elbow rotate enough by the frame after impact?

You need high speed video, 240 fps is a good rate for tennis strokes.

Or you can repeat many serves, collect frames from each serve, put them all together, assume your serves were similar and that the frames you get in this way are representative of your serve. This wastes time, is a poor way to do video analysis and may give misleading conclusions.

Other approach is to get a high speed video. Cheaper camera about $100 or smartphone with high speed video mode.

GIRD is a normal consequence of tennis. I don't know what causes the GIRD that is classified an injury so it might be hard to spot in video comparisons. ?
 
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FCarmo

New User
The frame rate is slow. I can't tell if you are doing ISR properly. Looks from the elbow bones as if you upper arm rotated before impact, I guess. But does the elbow rotate enough by the frame after impact?

You need high speed video, 240 fps is a good rate for tennis strokes.

Or you can repeat many serves, collect frames from each serve, put them all together, assume your serves were similar and that the frames you get in this way are representative of your serve. This wastes time, is a poor way to do video analysis and may give misleading conclusions.

Other approach is to get a high speed video. Cheaper camera about $100 or smartphone with high speed video mode.

GIRD is a normal consequence of tennis. I don't know what causes the GIRD that is classified an injury so it might be hard to spot in video comparisons. ?
Yes I had an horrible camera in this moment haha.... I´m not playing tennis until december to recover me well....Seeing me I think that I rotated before the impact, more than I should do (sorry my poor english)
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
Hi! I uploaded a video from 1 year ago...
It looks like a pretty good serve motion! Are you hitting flat in this? I find slice and topspin a lot less jarring on the body. Its more of a 'whippy' motion on the ball that kind of skids across it, rather than thumping it dead on. If you have shoulder issues id forget about the flat serve
 

MotoboXer

Professional
Your problem is both your feet/knees in a straight line. Should be 45 degree angle before toss (see Federer)
 
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FCarmo

New User
It looks like a pretty good serve motion! Are you hitting flat in this? I find slice and topspin a lot less jarring on the body. Its more of a 'whippy' motion on the ball that kind of skids across it, rather than thumping it dead on. If you have shoulder issues id forget about the flat serve
Thanks! It was flat serve...agree with this, I would return with no-flat serve, thanks god there are only clay courts, so flat isnt too important haha
 
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