Heaven Help Me! A Pusher Showed Up!

[Cindysphinx]

I've read the threads. You guys have read them too. "That guy was a pusher, but he beat me!! Waaaaaaaa!"

Yeah, well. Hand me a hankie, 'cause I lost to a pusher tonight. And pass the Advil, because we played on clay.

I don't think I played a dumb or bad match, really. In warm-up, I could see a lady with no net game. No overhead. No pace. No spin. Minimal agility. No serve. I knew this could be trouble. 'Cause the only thing left that could possibly justify her 3.5 rating was Relentless Consistency From The Baseline.

We started playing, and my opening strategy was to out-consistency her by hitting deep. I played conservative balls and waited for her to miss. She did not miss, ever. I had to resist the urge to check my watch *during* these dishwater-dull rallies we were having. Alas, I would miss a touch wide or a touch long before she would. Soon I was behind.

I started trotting out different strategies to throw her off or generate some offense, because the consistency thing was clearly her game and I was never going to beat her playing defense.

First I went with Wardlaw. Utterly useless. I mean, she was sending me pushes up the middle to the baseline. Wardlaw's directionals don't tell you what to do when balls have no direction, but instead just fall out of the sky.

Then I tried hitting corner to corner deep. This accomplished nothing, as she could reach my balls with ease unless I tried to spank them, and then I missed too much.

Then I tried to Moonball her backhand. She loved this. More time to set up to hit her own moon ball back by just waving at it with her 1HBH.

Then I tried hit everything to the backhand. No cigar. She was perfectly capable of pushing off of both wings.

Then I tried bringing her to net. This was a tall order, because the only way I know to bring someone to net is to walk over to their side and grab them by the hair. I do know how to slice my FH (not my BH), so I started slicing the FH or slicing it short or just pushing mid-court balls back short and daring her to come in. This led to some hotly contested games, but I missed too many times to offset her few misses because this is a pretty new shot for me.

First set: 0-6. I don't think she even missed a serve in that first set. I don't know how much time lapsed, but that first set took a looooooong time, and now I was under time pressure too.

For the second set, I figured I should be more aggressive because the only thing that would help me was a quick second set win, which wouldn't happen unless I shortened the points.

I started playing a game called "Create Your Own Shortball." I came in on everything rather than waiting for opportunities that never came. I served and volleyed, followed returns to the net, came in on anything I could get in my strike zone regardless of how deep it was. Mmmm, this worked OK and we had many deuces, but still I couldn't quite break through, partly because my approach shots aren't so hot.

Finally, I hit upon the strategy that had some potential: Hit Every Single Ball As A Crazy Aggressive Fernando Gonzalez Forehand. Hey, if she was going to hit with no pace and give me all day to set up, there was no reason I should ever hit a backhand, right? I hit most every FH inside out, 'cause that's all I really know how to do. I would serve wide, run around her return, and then take it down the line as hard as I could. I received serve from crazy positions, pretty much standing in the doubles alley to receive on the ad side. When I did hit a BH, it was because I just forgot to run around it.

Held. Then Broke.

Trouble was, I couldn't hit my FH crosscourt with any authority. I really needed that shot because she was camping on the BH side.

Anyway, we battled some more with me combining the Everything Forehand strategy with the Kamikaze missions to the net, and we were on serve when she . . . she totally hooked me on game point! My FH DTL was totally on the line, on account of how the ball kicked up and made a smacking sound. She called it out and went on to take the game. Instead of 4-4, it became 5-3 and ultimately 6-3.

We had about 10 minutes remaining, so we started a new set. I resolved to hit angled FHs crosscourt. And what do you know? I hit them. The bounced on the outside T and she couldn't reach them!

So. Now I know what to do with paceless pushers: To get the ball out of reach and get them moving, you have to have the ability to hit topspin angled short balls. Hitting deep to the baseline totally doesn't cut it.

I guess I'd better to get to work on that . . .

Cindy -- who was shocked whenever this lady made an UE, because it happened so infrequently

 

[Sentinel]

Cindy, that was engrossing. I had to cover the next para, so I could not peek at what was coming!

When i applied wardlwaw the other day, when balls came on the center: if they were slightly on my fh side I sent them cc to the opp fh. Otherwise i recall sending many DEEP to my opp's bh, cos his returns were weak from that side.
However, I am more consistent than my opp, who;s better but v. impatient.

 

[Topaz]

Cindy, I need to get your phone number, so we can call each other and commiserate after matches.

I didn't get a pusher, I got a 6 foot amazon!!!

Lost first set 3-6 (boy howdy, was I nervous!!!), did manage to come back and win the second 6-4 (after blowing a 5-2 lead), then we were neck and neck in the 10 point tiebreak when...yup, you guessed it, we ran out of time! 5-5, so next point won the match.

I had had some success bringing her up to the net (my DTL passes were working), so I did it again, and for some *stupid* reason tried to go crosscourt...amazon at net had no problem with it, put away the volley...game, set, match with her ahead 6-5 in the TB.

*sigh*

I was playing #2 singles, though, and our #1 got blown out, so I think, even though I lost, I'm getting promoted to #1!!!! :shock:

Though, I have to admit, I was much happier playing singles then doubles...even though I lost.

And, after a bit of checking, turns out I lost to someone who was 8-2 in singles last year. Oh man...that makes that one point even a bit more painful!

 

[samster]

Thanks for the wonderful story, Cindy. Your experience sounded like one of mine several weeks back. I lost to a PUSHER several weeks back, 2-6, 6-7. I was actually up the entire second set until the bitter end, but the thought of playing a third set was just too much to bear.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Oh, Topaz. I'm sorry. Amazons are almost as bad as pushers, except at least people respect you if you lose to an Amazon. Me, I lost a lot of Tennis Cred last night.

The other thing is that the match made me decide my pro is a flippin' genius. We've been working on singles this year, and he has tried to disabuse me of the notion that short balls are bad and deep balls are good. Instead, he says you need to know how to place the ball outside "The Circle." Meaning an imaginary circle around the T. A short ball to the side T is, in his opinion, a better shot than a drive deep to the baseline. That is because the opponent must cover more ground and is off the court. He told me a story of how he almost lost to a top-ranked *girl* when he was a young player because she hit such fierce angled shots to the T.

Had I been able to execute that one shot -- angled shots to both Ts -- I would have won last night. They needn't have had blistering pace, either. The topspin would have made the travel even wider, and if my consistent opponent had reached them, she still could never have made it back into position.

I think I will make it a priority to learn to hit these shots well.

 

[Topaz]

Yes, like I said, I had a lot of success bringing my opponent up with short, low balls last night.

I disagree, though, that losing to a pusher somehow makes you lose credibility. The thing that pushers have that all of us want is that amazing focus and consistency to get that ball back over the net. In the end, that is the person who wins...the one who gets the ball back over one more time than the other. The reason we all dread them so much is because they are so tough to beat!!!

 

[smoothtennis]

Great story Cindy. Quite funny reading your story the way you phrase things, LOL. Boy howdy, those are the hardest types to deal with, good job trying out different things. It's easy to put on paper how to beat a pusher sure, but doing it can be quite the challenge eh? Been there done that.

And a steady pusher on clay at 3.5 ---- oh man oh man, that has to be a very hard combination. It takes a lot of different skills and all that time to develop in practice to beat these folks, so don't feel bad at all, you did a great job. You have lost any tennis credibility - rather - you have been rightfully 'baptized' into the real tennis world!

 

[TennisProdigy]

I'll be glad to say that of the around 8 pushers I've encountered in tournaments,
I have never lost to one, I have never dropped a set to one. Whenever I see a "pusher" usually after the first game I'm thinking, "Yes! Easy win!" Why? Because I have 3 strategies and at least of if not all always work.

1. No pusher is faster or has more stamina than I. Therefore, I can play his game and hit 50 ball, no pace rallies all day long without missing a single shot the entire match. This may take 2.5 hours but I got all the time in the world.

2. If I think that he has little stamina, run him corner to corner with little pace balls to ensure that I don't miss and I will force him to make an error.

3. Bring him to net on a drop shot, doesn't have to be good because pushers can't hit with pace anyways just good enough so he has to run up. Now once he is at the net I will aim the ball right at him because aiming for a passing shot will decrease my margin for error and when I aim for him even if I hit a ball that is grossly out, chances are he WILL try to hit it b/c he has no net experience.

GL on your next pusher match, hopefully you will be able to pull it out.

 

[johnny ballgame]

Congratulations, welcome to the club of singles players. Until you've lost to a pusher, your membership is not complete.

 

[PushyPushster]

Then I tried bringing her to net. This was a tall order, because the only way I know to bring someone to net is to walk over to their side and grab them by the hair.

This is what I hate. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, either - just a soft shot a few feet in front of the service line. I can either run back and forth all day long - which is much more tiring than running side to side - or I can (very incompetently) try to defend the net.

Anyhow, thanks for losing to a pusher. If someone doesn't occassionally take one for the team, then we'd just stop playing altogether - and that would be horrible.

 

[ten10]

Had I been able to execute that one shot -- angled shots to both Ts -- I would have won last night. They needn't have had blistering pace, either. The topspin would have made the travel even wider, and if my consistent opponent had reached them, she still could never have made it back into position.

I think I will make it a priority to learn to hit these shots well.

You said she didn't have great agility, so I do believe that executing the short angled shots would have improved your odds of winning. Still, if that was all you were doing, this person might very well have adjusted her game and you might have lost anyway. The trick is to mix it up, I think.

Your posts indicate that you like net--are good at net, etc. Those topspin angled short shots are excellent balls to come in on. If she is barely getting to them--on the run, she isn't going to "hurt" you with the ball if she gets to it (it'll be defensive). So be at net and place her soft hit, softly away from her.

This is my first season at 4.5 singles (injured now). I was 2-3. My last two losses, however, were in 3rd set tie-breakers. But the real story is that I won my first sets solidly in both matches, 6-2 and 6-3. But because they are more seasoned mentally and skill-wise, they were able to completely revamp what they were doing, while I kept trying to do the same thing for a little too long and got into trouble. I also choked everytime I had a match point. Which happened 5 or 6 consecutive times with me at 5-4 in a second set. The point is, you are fairly new to league singles play. If you are up against seasoned players, then I caution you against getting one strategy in your head that you think will be the magic bullet. They can and likely will make the adjustments and the chessgame will continue.

Clearly, you are always thinking out there on the court. I'm sure you will enjoy much success at singles. I don't know what Wardlaw is (I probably should find out since I have down time while getting PT 2X/week). But tennis is not like a vending machine that, you put in a coin, push a button, and get your desired result with 100% predictability. Also, you can play smart and still lose and you can play dumb and still win. Any given day.

 

[raiden031]

I'll be glad to say that of the around 8 pushers I've encountered in tournaments,
I have never lost to one, I have never dropped a set to one. Whenever I see a "pusher" usually after the first game I'm thinking, "Yes! Easy win!" Why? Because I have 3 strategies and at least of if not all always work.

1. No pusher is faster or has more stamina than I. Therefore, I can play his game and hit 50 ball, no pace rallies all day long without missing a single shot the entire match. This may take 2.5 hours but I got all the time in the world.

2. If I think that he has little stamina, run him corner to corner with little pace balls to ensure that I don't miss and I will force him to make an error.

3. Bring him to net on a drop shot, doesn't have to be good because pushers can't hit with pace anyways just good enough so he has to run up. Now once he is at the net I will aim the ball right at him because aiming for a passing shot will decrease my margin for error and when I aim for him even if I hit a ball that is grossly out, chances are he WILL try to hit it b/c he has no net experience.

GL on your next pusher match, hopefully you will be able to pull it out.

I don't see these working for most people. Pushers are known for their good retrieving ability as well as their consistency. You are better at both so right there you would make a better pusher than them. Most people can't hit corner to corner and out-rally a pusher who by definition is more consistent than them by virtue of being a pusher. Also I don't know any opponents who I can win points by just hitting to them at the net. Even if they are not a great volleyer, they are likely to just block the ball short and win the point if I don't attempt to pass, keep it very low, or lob.

The only way I can beat a pusher is to come to the net every chance I get because the one thing pushers cannot do is hit passing shots very well. They will attempt lobs that will often fall short because they don't have good ball control skills. The problem is that it is difficult to play the net consistency in singles especially if you are still a developing player. So for me it really depends on the kind of day I'm having more than how my opponent reacts to my net play.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Ten10, how right you are!

This whole experiment in singles has been fascinating. As you say, there is no one strategy that works against everyone. I played two practice matches to gear up for this match. I won by patiently hitting to the baseline. They made the UE before I did. I was mighty surprised to see that this opponent wouldn't cough up an UE, period.

Well, even though I lost, I still feel better about it than one of my singles wins in 2007. In that match, I quickly realized that pushing every ball up the middle was enough to win, so that's what I did. 6-1, 6-2. Very ugly stuff, that.

This time, I actually hit the ball (or tried to hit the ball) the way I'm supposed to hit it. That part felt pretty good.

Here's a question about bringing someone to net: What shot should I go practice to make this happen? Are we talking a classic dropshot from the baseline (which I always thought was a no-no)? Should the shot be directed toward the sideline or the middle, and what does that decision depend on?

 

[Cindysphinx]

I don't see these working for most people. Pushers are known for their good retrieving ability as well as their consistency. You are better at both so right there you would make a better pusher than them. Most people can't hit corner to corner and out-rally a pusher who by definition is more consistent than them by virtue of being a pusher. Also I don't know any opponents who I can win points by just hitting to them at the net. Even if they are not a great volleyer, they are likely to just block the ball short and win the point if I don't attempt to pass, keep it very low, or lob.

The only way I can beat a pusher is to come to the net every chance I get because the one thing pushers cannot do is hit passing shots very well. They will attempt lobs that will often fall short because they don't have good ball control skills. The problem is that it is difficult to play the net consistency in singles especially if you are still a developing player. So for me it really depends on the kind of day I'm having more than how my opponent reacts to my net play.

Raiden, I am with you.

I think the only way to beat a pusher is to generate some controlled offense. Certain shots are required to do this: Overheads, approach shots, and those sharply angled topspin groundstrokes. My successes occurred when I yanked her out of her comfort zone, as her one significant weakness was recovering her position if I got her off the court.

The weird thing about bringing her to net was that she still won many points because, well, I'm no Nadal my own self. If I cracked it at her, she blocked it into the court by sticking that big ol' 120 sq inch racket out. If I tried to pass, she moved over and blocked it. If I tried to lob, I would sometimes do OK, but she was remarkably good at hitting a defensive overhead (even off of her BH) and then scooting back to the baseline. But mostly, she would take my short ball and loop it back deep and refuse to come in. So I was taking risk hitting these short balls and not getting much of a payoff.

 

[babar]

Good Luck next time Cindy! I have trouble with pushers too. My whole game is built on hitting short angles, then down the line deep. The short angle not only brings your opponent out, but also up in the court. So, hitting their next ball deep is very effective. If they are really fast, I try to hit behind them, which works well on clay. If your net game is good, then on that next ball, you would want to come in b/c the goal is to make the opponent hit a weaker shot with every stroke you hit. I;m not sure how good a drop shot you have, but that would really help you to increase the yankning of the opponent around. I win a lot of points by hitting high, loopy moon balls down the middle or to backhands, then hit drop shots. Anyway, Raiden's advice of controlled aggression is spot-on! Good Luck in your next match.

 

[ten10]

Here's a question about bringing someone to net: What shot should I go practice to make this happen? Are we talking a classic dropshot from the baseline (which I always thought was a no-no)? Should the shot be directed toward the sideline or the middle, and what does that decision depend on?

Having read your response to Raiden, I think, this person you played was successful at net against your shots. I'm not sure why you want to practice bringing someone to net. I like bringing people to net because I have reliable passing shots and I want out of the baseline rally.

Anyway, a middle of the court short shot --service T--should get someone in.

With your doubles experience though, I see you as the one taking the net once they are in even the slightest defensive position. When I say take the net, I don't mean all at once. Shorten the court based on how defensive they look. A mid-court volley does not have to be a hard hit put away. A well-placed volley will have them on the defensive even more, and then the 3rd shot (in this type of progression) should be your "winner".

Hitting high and deep to a pusher's backhand can allow you to really sneak in. They can't watch the ball and you. They don't hit with pace, and a short volley angled into the deuce court--point over.

 

[Nellie]

Whenever I play mixed doubles, I am really impressed by the angles that the women hit off the groundshots/ service returns (ball consitently landing right near the corner of the side/service lines.) With guys, it seems to be all about pace. Since I see my female partners hit this shot so often, I think that must be a needed shot in the women's league. Keep on hitting it, because there is no response, except to be really fast.

Speaking from experience, my biggest difficulties on clay come from soft slices down the middle (landing near the service line) that force me to come
in and take the ball around my ankles while running forward in no-man's land. I see this shot constantly at high level open tournements as well because it puts the returner in a position of having to hit a good shot on the run since the next shot is either a passing shot (when the returned continues to the net) or a deep
grounds shot when the returner is retreating from no-man's land. I do not think for most people under 4.5, a drop shot is a good percentage play.

Please take these thoughts with a grain of grain of salt since I am 0-11 on clay this year in league play

 

[Fedace]

I do feel for you. However, with pushers with Limited mobility as you put it, can be beaten by using topspin angles and drawing off the court, especially on clay courts. Nadal(i know he is a clay king) uses this to perfection and that is why he is so tough to beat. Ball bounces much higher on clay, so you can hit down easier which means you can create sharper angles.
1. If possible, Use short Angle shots to either side and draw them off court and move in slightly to nowomen's land and look for a moonball. if you get a moonball, move in and hit a swing volley or Overhead to the open court and expect another lob if she reaches the ball. Or if you get a floater, even better, close in tight and hit a sharp angle volley to the open court. Now at my level, the guys who hit slow balls, are extremely fast so this is little more difficult but i use this tactic very effectively against so called pushers.
2. also draw them in with short slice shots to the backhand side, if they hit it and retreat, then step in and rip it hard to their backhand corner. this will usually give you a shorter ball that you can hit hard down the line and come in. this works as well.
3. also use the drop shots even if it doesn't work too well in the beginning. they hate coming to the net so this will make them uncomfortable. and taking your opponents out of their comfort zone is the name of the game.

 

[NiteFly]

What a great write-up! I've played 3 pushers so far. One I could beat by serving hard and running em front to back. One I lost 0-6,4-6 to, but the slice and dice was starting to work in that second set. The third guy was the least technical of them all. He blocked 90% of the time, but still managed to double bagel me. He was just so incredibly fast. I need to be able to hit with more pace and get more quality serves in to beat that guy.

Since that last pusher, I have a much better second serve, so maybe next time. It sounds like your aggresive approach at the end might have been effective against the number three pusher I described. Anyway, it seems to be a right of passage to be able to beat these types of players. Get em next time!

 

[Xisbum]

The third guy was the least technical of them all. He blocked 90% of the time, but still managed to double bagel me. He was just so incredibly fast. I need to be able to hit with more pace and get more quality serves in to beat that guy.

Hmmm. So this kind of player gave/gives you trouble, huh? I'll have to remember that when we finally get on the court.

Me - A big F in high tech, but 0 to 60 in 4.4 seconds!!

 

[Cindysphinx]

Ten10, I think you may have nailed the problem here.

A pusher like this is the singles equivalent of a lob queen!!

One effective strategy that I never tried would have been to change my own court position in response to the push/moonballs. Shorten the court, take away her time. Hit swinging volleys, mostly. Sneak in when she was pushed way back, hit overheads if she tries to lob.

You know, I'll bet that would have worked.

 

[NiteFly]

Hmmm. So this kind of player gave/gives you trouble, huh? I'll have to remember that when we finally get on the court.

Me - A big F in high tech, but 0 to 60 in 4.4 seconds!!

Heh, in the little bit we got hit, Im afraid to say Xisbum that you wouldn't have to move much to beat me.

 

[Xisbum]

Heh, in the little bit we got hit, Im afraid to say Xisbum that you wouldn't have to move much to beat me.

Don't know about that, but you are oh so kind to say so, good sir. I look forward to our next court encounter.

 

[burosky]

Reading all the responses, I see a lot of good and very sensible advise. The only trouble is not every one can execute those shots. If a particular tactic or strategy requires a specific shot and you don't have it in your shot inventory, it may easily make it worse for you.

Personally, it doesn't matter if I'm playing a pusher or some other player type. I just ask myself two questions. How am I getting points and How is my opponent getting points? If I can answer that, it dictates what I have to do until things change again. Basically, the idea after answering the questions, is to do more of the things that wins me a point and doing less of what allows my opponent to win points. The rest boils down to execution. If I can execute, I have a good chance of winning. If I can't maybe I need to hone up on certain shots.

 

[Sakkijarvi]

I've had my share of losses to pushers, yes and the aggravation too. Over time I've developed some tools that makes them more fun to play. For me.

One thing I added as an extreme sidespin 1HBH. I use it in a bunch of wacky ways, like from deep in my backhand corner, deep to theirs, with a big, looping curve-ball the kicks parallel to the net upon bouncing. And if they try to hit a BH, it bounces right into their body. It also works as a drop shot.

Cranking off some hard serves, followed by a dying quail that barely clears the net, complete with grunt and realistic swing, gets them scrambling in, setting up a pass.

Basically, I've moved away from counter-pushing. And also away from bashing, trying to hit a lot of winners. Both of those approaches in the past have brought me grief. Another point is I've found concentrating on my footwork makes a big difference in these matches.

The above stuff has helped me move past some pushers that used to give me fits. Now I be playin' wit them...

 

[Topaz]

So Cindy, now that we've finally met, I'm wondering if we should start a separate thread for our tennis adventures? The Cindysphinx/Topaz Official 2008 USTA Season thread? Lol, or something along those lines?

Or, considering my slow start to the season, maybe not!!!

 

[dgrave2]

oy pusher.. playing in a tournament and i saw the guy im playing next... he's got to be in his 70s.. so that just tells me: consistent. i'm gonna need a lot of patience for this match.

 

[Cindysphinx]

So Cindy, now that we've finally met, I'm wondering if we should start a separate thread for our tennis adventures? The Cindysphinx/Topaz Official 2008 USTA Season thread? Lol, or something along those lines?

Or, considering my slow start to the season, maybe not!!!

OK, that's just weird.

I had the same idea this afternoon while slaving away in the garden this afternoon.

Maybe you're my long lost sister?

 

[Topaz]

OK, that's just weird.

I had the same idea this afternoon while slaving away in the garden this afternoon.

Maybe you're my long lost sister?

Heh, heh...hope your match today went well.

Shall you start the thread, or shall I?