Short answer yes.My coach explained to me the difference, heavy balls as it's name implied, not necessarily high pace, the balls have plenty of force that will twist the racket on off center hit.
High pace balls aren't necessarily heavy balls.
Is it true?
What about balls with lots of underspin? Underweight?Fast balls have pace, Heavy balls usually just feel heavy on your racket because they have lots of topspin.
Underspin minimizes vertical component of ball velocity, and particularly after bounce balls retain much less pace.What about balls with lots of underspin? Underweight?
I think it’s the amount of spin on the ball when you’re returning it. It can be very difficult to handle as it pushes the racket around. I had to face extremely spinny balls (both top and under) a couple of times from advanced players when I played doubles. I simply couldn’t hit a single ball cleanly.Underspin minimizes vertical component of ball velocity, and particularly after bounce balls retain much less pace.
I don’t share same experience. The most amount of unclean contacts I’ve got against strong lefties. Because their spin is unfamiliar. And balls end up in different spot than I expect.I think it’s the amount of spin on the ball when you’re returning it. It can be very difficult to handle as it pushes the racket around. I had to face extremely spinny balls (both top and under) a couple of times from advanced players when I played doubles. I simply couldn’t hit a single ball cleanly.
I don’t usually face balls with a lot of rotational energy. When I do rarely, I don’t know what to do. Just too much weird energy transferred to my strings. I still feel the same when I volley an incoming ball with plenty of underspin.I don’t share same experience. The most amount of unclean contacts I’ve got against strong lefties. Because their spin is unfamiliar. And balls end up in different spot than I expect.
I’ve hit enough clean blasts against heavy balls from strong players. Never felt like spin is pushing my racquet around — but I use pretty hefty ones.
But of course I’m not going to ultimately deny the experience. I just suggest that next time you play someone with “heavy” shots you are aware of what causes you trouble, how you can solve it… and film your strokes and analyze ones you miss or get pushed — what actually happens?
Pro players put away heaviest kick serves more frequently than fast first serves. The ball spin doesn’t cause the ball to rebound all over the court, while high pace and lack of time does. It’s extreme example, but gives the idea.
In the meantime, fast, high and spinny balls are a nightmare to face, no doubt.
The point of underspin when used offensively, aside from getting to the target with a hard to read trajectory, and keeping the bounce low, is to mess up the sense of launch angle.I don’t usually face balls with a lot of rotational energy. When I do rarely, I don’t know what to do. Just too much weird energy transferred to my strings. I still feel the same when I volley an incoming ball with plenty of underspin.
Argument for a heavy racquet. And also higher tension.I think it’s the amount of spin on the ball when you’re returning it. It can be very difficult to handle as it pushes the racket around. I had to face extremely spinny balls (both top and under) a couple of times from advanced players when I played doubles. I simply couldn’t hit a single ball cleanly.
I found underspin, be it offensive or defensive, is very tricky. This is one of the most challenging shot to counter.The point of underspin when used offensively, aside from getting to the target with a hard to read trajectory, and keeping the bounce low, is to mess up the sense of launch angle.
It's useful to understand the partitioning between spin and speed, because there is a limit of energy one can generate without too many errors and you need them to achieve different tactical purposes later.My coach explained to me the difference, heavy balls as it's name implied, not necessarily high pace, the balls have plenty of force that will twist the racket on off center hit.
High pace balls aren't necessarily heavy balls.
Is it true?
I agree but I still think the ball’s rotational energy makes the impact on strings very tricky. It may not push the racket out of your hand but gives a similar ‘not in control’ feeling.This is another one of those debates over feel vs. real. Heaviness feels the way the OP described and slice can cause the effect Curious mentioned. But really it’s just about the ball bouncing in a place we don’t expect it causing us to hit off center, off balance and to adjust the swing path at the last second to cope for where the ball really is. But at the end of the day it’s all about being balanced and in the right place, heavy spin just makes it trickier to time.
If you have the techniques and set up, you can attack it. Slice often robs you the proper set up position. That's why it can be effective even for pros.I found underspin, be it offensive or defensive, is very tricky. This is one of the most challenging shot to counter.
Not only it disturbs the rhythm, you cannot be aggressive countering it.
Again it’s not only the weird bounce, it’s the weird behaviour of the ball even when it reaches the strings. I didn’t experience this many times but only a few quite advanced players made me feel that. I couldn’t return any of the not so fast but extremely spinny( mostly slice) serves of one guy for example.it's half physics half experience.. a high spin ball does have more energy and it will look more jumpy on the bounce because the trajectory becomes more vertical prior to impact...on clay it;s more exaggerated due to the ball upon landing pushes some dirt forward and form a little 'hill' to climb up on.
more vertical trajectory on the landing and the rebound causes more timing problems because it goes in and out of the strike zone so fast. in the amateurs far more people have problem with spin than with flat pace.
@Curious a slice with lots of spin is called a heavy slice lol.
@Dragy how to define 'retain'... a topspin ball naturally loses horizontal speed faster due to the trajectory bending. and the landing on the court is heavier than the ball's own weight due to the Bernoulli effect, so the friction shaves off more speed.. on the contrary, a slice skids, because the Bernoulli effect causes the landing to be lighter than the ball's own weight, so the friction shaves off less speed... and this is exaggerated on fast services... e.g. try on artificial grass you can basically time a slice as if there is zero speed loss (like hitting an air ball).
@C.H - generally you need to switch to a different tempo when you see a skiddy slice coming in. time the shot assuming zero speed loss. this is similar to hitting a swing volley - no incoming speed loss on the rebound.If you have the techniques and set up, you can attack it. Slice often robs you the proper set up position. That's why it can be effective even for pros.
Yes, this is why I say it is underused by most players, especially on the FH wing. You can still be aggressive countering it but it demands a bit different mindset and usually higher degree of execution.I found underspin, be it offensive or defensive, is very tricky. This is one of the most challenging shot to counter.
Not only it disturbs the rhythm, you cannot be aggressive countering it.
This is a legitimate feeling because the spin interacts with the hitting surface.Again it’s not only the weird bounce, it’s the weird behaviour of the ball even when it reaches the strings. I didn’t experience this many times but only a few quite advanced players made me feel that. I couldn’t return any of the not so fast but extremely spinny( mostly slice) serves of one guy for example.
Yes often you can basically block it with a short stroke and get it placed right.@C.H - generally you need to switch to a different tempo when you see a skiddy slice coming in. time the shot assuming zero speed loss. this is similar to hitting a swing volley - no incoming speed loss on the rebound.
Stringbed stiffness helps…Again it’s not only the weird bounce, it’s the weird behaviour of the ball even when it reaches the strings. I didn’t experience this many times but only a few quite advanced players made me feel that. I couldn’t return any of the not so fast but extremely spinny( mostly slice) serves of one guy for example.
I’m not sure, topspin shot definitely gets more resistance from the “front” after it passes the peak, compared to same speed of no-spin ball, but it’s really a small part of the flight, and not sure how significant. Overall topspin allows the ball to go faster, clear the net safely and stay in. Hence rally balls with heavy spin are obviously “heavier” than same-shape flatter rally balls.a topspin ball naturally loses horizontal speed faster due to the trajectory bending
It didn't.Stringbed stiffness helps…
Swinging through confidently denies all spin effect (if making clean contact).It didn't.
So was this with the 50lb tension?It didn't.
Yes, it was 52-56 range around that time.So was this with the 50lb tension?
Weight then. I wished i lived down the street. I could let you hit with my racquet among other things.Yes, it was 52-56 range around that time.
Advanced players use tempo to win points. I must say this is a higher mind game because once club players got into the groove, they have only one pace, bang, bang, bang. I also have this problem, using pace to force a mistake from my opponent.@C.H - generally you need to switch to a different tempo when you see a skiddy slice coming in. time the shot assuming zero speed loss. this is similar to hitting a swing volley - no incoming speed loss on the rebound.
if it's just a floaty defensive slice, then it's likely gonna sit up and you can time it like a regular top spin ball... but keep them feet active as the bounce maybe tricky.
Top spin deals well with top spin and flat shots, so with slices against slices.Swinging through confidently denies all spin effect (if making clean contact).
The more you block it, the more spin affects how ball rebounds.
Argument for a heavy racquet. And also higher tension.
Not really. I have seen D1 players tackle balls with tons of action on them with a stock frame much lighter than yours. It is about anticipation and technique.Argument for a heavy racquet. And also higher tension.
The legend speaks the truth.Not really. I have seen D1 players tackle balls with tons of action on them with a stock frame much lighter than yours. It is about anticipation and technique.
Perhaps but i was talking to curious. He is no d1 player. Even Nadal had to add weight to his racquet later in his career.Not really. I have seen D1 players tackle balls with tons of action on them with a stock frame much lighter than yours. It is about anticipation and technique.
But still Nadal was never as heavy as you.Perhaps but i was talking to curious. He is no d1 player. Even Nadal had to add weight to his racquet later in his career.
He he. Imagine how he would have dominatedBut still Nadal was never as heavy as you.
I mean his racket.