Height over the net - 4.5 tennis

AnyPUG

Professional
If you look at the height of the ball on the ground shots, would you say it's normal at this level?



 
Last edited:

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Pink can hit normal shots, but chooses to probe with high bouncers.
Why not? Not much net play, so lengthen the points.
 

Dragy

Legend
More interesting is, it was described previously as “fast indoors court”, but guys seem ok to extend rallies...
And once again, it’s highlights reel, but those coming in and saying Mark is a typical 4.5... cmon guys (y)
 

AnyPUG

Professional
More interesting is, it was described previously as “fast indoors court”, but guys seem ok to extend rallies...
And once again, it’s highlights reel, but those coming in and saying Mark is a typical 4.5... cmon guys (y)

He played 4.5 level with 7-1 winning record last year. Won 2 in 3 sets.

 

WildVolley

Legend
The shots at the beginning of that match highlights had more net clearance than what I've observed as normal in Southern California 4.5.
 

TypeRx

Semi-Pro
I don't think their match play was abnormal in terms of net margin. Just really depends on the playstyle of each opponent and their game day strategy. There was no real floating or pushing I saw - mainly hitting with heavy topspin with LOADS of margin to keep the ball deep and minimize unforced errors into the net.

That all said, of course I've been or observed 4.5 matches where net clearance is much lower...but that is usually when playstyle favors a more flat, penetrating ball.
 

TypeRx

Semi-Pro
What is "upper end 4.5 proceeding to 5.0 anytime soon"? Is it still 4.5 or not?
From my observation and play in SoCal, he is definitely very strong 4.5 and probably would be one of those guys at risk of getting bumped to 5.0. I don't think he would be 50/50 at 5.0 though.
 

WildVolley

Legend
Gee, I hope you guys don't rate Rafael Nadal by his net clearance.
Has anyone in this thread rated anyone by net clearance?

Before I watched professional hard court tennis in person at court level, I'd been told on TTI that ATP pros hit with massive net clearance. This is simply untrue as a factual matter, though net clearance does vary by player.

I've never watched a professional clay court tournament in person, but I assume that net clearance is higher in those matches.
 

WildVolley

Legend
This whole thread is about rating based on net clearance.
No it isn't.

This is about a video showing a college player (so assume 5.0+ equivalent NTRP) playing a good adult player who is said to be rated a 4.5, and most consider him high 4.5. Early in the match the players are testing each other with high net clearance rally balls. It was asked if that is a usual net clearance at 4.5. It isn't in my experience, and if you watch the whole highlights, the net clearance drops as play progresses.

I should state that you can't tell a 4.5 level player by net clearance. Some 4.5 players hit very flat. Others will almost lob on every shot, though some of these guys are doubles specialists.
 

TypeRx

Semi-Pro
Before I watched professional hard court tennis in person at court level, I'd been told on TTI that ATP pros hit with massive net clearance. This is simply untrue as a factual matter, though net clearance does vary by player.
Funny you mention that because coincidentally I shared the following short video last night with someone to help articulate that it is important to hit with a lot of net clearance unless you are an amazing, precision-focused, flat hitter.

 

Jake Speeed

Professional
The "player" has control of net clearance. And this can change from shot to shot. If you have "shots." Plural.

Some only have one shot and are lucky to have that. :)

If your pulled wide and deep, that "shot" is going to be different than the "shot" at 6 feet in front of the base line with plenty of time to set up. High net clearance plus a slow ball, can give you time to get out of the bleachers and back on the court.

This should explain the variables in net clearance. Also, you can change "tempo" with speed, spin, depth and loft, i.e., Net clearance.

Well, if you have the ability to do this on command. :love:
 

WildVolley

Legend
Funny you mention that because coincidentally I shared the following short video last night with someone to help articulate that it is important to hit with a lot of net clearance unless you are an amazing, precision-focused, flat hitter.
...
First of all, you've picked Nadal, who is one of the heaviest topspin hitting players on tour, targeting Federer's backhand with high kicking balls. Second, I don't consider any of Federer's shots on that video to be particularly high net clearance.

The Ultimate Tennis Showdown videos show a lot of court-level play.

 

TypeRx

Semi-Pro
First of all, you've picked Nadal, who is one of the heaviest topspin hitting players on tour, targeting Federer's backhand with high kicking balls. Second, I don't consider any of Federer's shots on that video to be particularly high net clearance.

The Ultimate Tennis Showdown videos show a lot of court-level play.

Thanks for sharing -- but I still see a lot of net clearance from even the very best players in the world. These guys have the capability to hit with a couple inches of clearance regularly if they want, yet they generally choose not to.

Not even sure what we are talking about anymore.

Point being, the players in the original video don't seem to be doing anything atypical to me. All depends on playstyle, play strategy, and the chosen execution of that particular point.
 

AnyPUG

Professional
. These guys have the capability to hit with a couple inches of clearance regularly if they want, yet they generally choose not to.
If they have the capability to hit with each other with a couple of inches of clearance, why don't they?
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Tennis is way more than hitting hard into an unmanned corner of the court.
If that was the only winning strategy, then players WOULD try to hit flat, low, fastmoving rocketships.
But that also is a way to lose the match quickly when the shots aren't falling.
 

TypeRx

Semi-Pro
If they have the capability to hit with each other with a couple of inches of clearance, why don't they?
LOL -- can't tell if rhetorical or serious. NOBODY has the capability do this 100% of the time, especially considering their opponent is trying to make them as uncomfortable as possible. So, they obviously do this to give themselves more margin, more angle possibilities, more depth, and more variety!

Still not sure why we are talking about this.
 

AnyPUG

Professional
LOL -- can't tell if rhetorical or serious. NOBODY has the capability do this 100% of the time, especially considering their opponent is trying to make them as uncomfortable as possible. So, they obviously do this to give themselves more margin, more angle possibilities, more depth, and more variety!

Still not sure why we are talking about this.
I thought you mentioned they have the skill to hit with low clearance if they want to.
So you agree nobody has the capability to hit with inches clearance if they want to.
 

TypeRx

Semi-Pro
I thought you mentioned they have the skill to hit with low clearance if they want to.
And they do, what's your point?

So you agree nobody has the capability to hit with inches clearance if they want to.
100% of the time, sure, I agree. Regularly, no, I don't agree. Of course top pros can do this if they want. They CHOOSE not to for a variety of reasons. And we all could learn from this.

You are honestly just being petty, but you already knew that. If you want to keep dialoguing about this, have at it. Someone else here will likely indulge you. LOL.
 
D

Deleted member 771407

Guest
LOL -- can't tell if rhetorical or serious. NOBODY has the capability do this 100% of the time, especially considering their opponent is trying to make them as uncomfortable as possible. So, they obviously do this to give themselves more margin, more angle possibilities, more depth, and more variety!

Still not sure why we are talking about this.
I think that is exactly his point...
 

AnyPUG

Professional
And they do, what's your point?



100% of the time, sure, I agree. Regularly, no, I don't agree. Of course top pros can do this if they want. They CHOOSE not to for a variety of reasons. And we all could learn from this.

You are honestly just being petty, but you already knew that. If you want to keep dialoguing about this, have at it. Someone else here will likely indulge you. LOL.
They can if they want to, but won't.
I'm not sure what are trying to communicate. I guess it's being petty if I ask for clarification.
 

GuyClinch

Legend
Some guys don't hit with much net clearance at all and play at 4.5. 50 year old man was hitting some very low slice shots to GSG.. Pinks level of topspin on some shots is unusual. Those guys are both upper 4.5 almost 5.0 guys.

In rec play I have noticed some women don't hit with much net clearance at all. On the tour women hit pretty flat as well..at least compared to the men.
 

Dragy

Legend
Playing a chest-height ball and going for minimal net clearance will result in ball bouncing inside service box unless it’s a total flat screamer. Why would they? Well, they sometimes go for sharp angles.
 

socallefty

Legend
If you hit with heavy topspin and higher ball trajectories, you can aim for bigger targets as you don’t have to hit deep all the time - if an advanced player hits with good pace and topspin and their shot lands near the service line, it still has so much action that few opponents will try to take it early before it bounces high. Early in a match, both of these players might have both been more nervous in a match being videotaped for public streaming and they might have been trying to just hit bigger targets more conservatively till they figure out the optimal risk level they have to play at to beat their new opponent. Once they know whether the opponent will take short balls on the rise, hit swinging volleys off high balls or approach the net, they can then tweak their match strategy and risk level.

Often against new opponents, advanced players will have this ‘figuring-each-other-out’ phase early in the match and it might extend to more conservative serve placement also. So, nothing unusual to see higher ball trajectories early in a match and it is a good example for other rec players to follow.
 

WildVolley

Legend
OP updated with match play vid.
The match play video shows that the high net clearance balls were the exception rather than the rule.

The play looks better than most 4.5 matches I've seen, but then that makes sense given that it is probably more accurately a match between a 5.5 and a 5.0.
 

Jake Speeed

Professional
I would love to watch your own match play, after all your comments you better be very good !
I was at one time. I can still hit a decent ball with ATP style but only for a short period.

You have to remember, when you instruct tennis you play very little tennis. Especially the way I worked.

I would rather see a video of racket work and shot making. You can also hit against the end of the net and show this. In fact, I teach all my students how to hit and work out using the net. You can "drop and hit" a ball and practice ground strokes. Speed, spin, and loft.

J
 

AnyPUG

Professional
Watching paint dry can be quite an experience.
When folks say mean stuff, it's a reflection of themselves, their values, and thoughts. These folks show what they really are.
These folks with general negativity are yet to realize that when they have nothing positive to think and say, silence is the best idea.
What they think is irrelevant.
 

Jake Speeed

Professional
When folks say mean stuff, it's a reflection of themselves, their values, and thoughts. These folks show what they really are.
These folks with general negativity are yet to realize that when they have nothing positive to think and say, silence is the best idea.
What they think is irrelevant.
Watching grass grow can be really soothing. Might take a bit of time, but the effort could be worth it.

BTW and FYI. I give plenty to this Forum in spite of the foolishness I see here every time I pop in. Check out my Posts before you jump on me.

I have never showed a video of other players playing, but I have shown a student of themselves playing.

Give this some thought.

J
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Started watching but then realized it was one of those mic'ed up "matches" and closed the window.
I really enjoy mic'd matches when the people are sincere and not trying to entertain. The guy in pink is obviously relishing his platform and making catchy, snarky, re-tweetable remarks. His face time with the camera is more revealing where he talks about strategy and tactics and analyzing the opponent.
 
I really enjoy mic'd matches when the people are sincere and not trying to entertain.
Yeah and that almost never happens.

Also when I started watching I had headphones on, and while I understand that some people might enjoy the sound of a dude breathing hard on their ear, it is definitely not something I enjoy :D
 
D

Deleted member 771407

Guest
Watching grass grow can be really soothing. Might take a bit of time, but the effort could be worth it.

BTW and FYI. I give plenty to this Forum in spite of the foolishness I see here every time I pop in. Check out my Posts before you jump on me.

I have never showed a video of other players playing, but I have shown a student of themselves playing.

Give this some thought.

J

I'm sorry if I was a bit too direct, it's always nice to have more active people on tennis boards. But there is no need to be condescending towards anyone. Those two players are pretty damn good as far as amateurs are concerned, and yet closer to our level than the pro, if you add to that the court view and the banter, many of us find it very entertaining.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Watching paint dry can be quite an experience.
If that match was "watching paint dry", what do you consider worthy of watching? Qualies? Satellites? Collegiate? >= NTRP X?

Did you note where Mark commented that his opponent would be rated NTRP 5.5 if he played USTA? That's in the 99th percentile of registered players. I don't see how that could be drying paint unless one only watched pro matches. I am hugely impressed because, as a mid-4.5, both these guys would steamroll me.

Trying to figure out what analogy is best to describe my matches if this video was paint drying...perhaps the entropic death of the universe?
 

GuyClinch

Legend
Latest tennis troll match has two hard hitters who in the first set seemed to never go for net clearance. So this kinda 'coachy' rules about needing to do this or that are more like rules of thumb.. Could this yellow shirt guy beat Mark or Cole? I dunno.. I wouldn't bet against it. Dude's serve is pretty sick.. Guy also seems like super quick around the court..

 

Jake Speeed

Professional
If that match was "watching paint dry", what do you consider worthy of watching? Qualies? Satellites? Collegiate? >= NTRP X?

Did you note where Mark commented that his opponent would be rated NTRP 5.5 if he played USTA? That's in the 99th percentile of registered players. I don't see how that could be drying paint unless one only watched pro matches. I am hugely impressed because, as a mid-4.5, both these guys would steamroll me.

Trying to figure out what analogy is best to describe my matches if this video was paint drying...perhaps the entropic death of the universe?
Improve.

This is the secrete to winning tennis, not hitting the ball where the other guy ain't.
 
Top