Height to serve speed relation

RFGOAT1992

RFGOAT1992

Semi-Pro
i know that height dont really define how fast you can hit the ball but it does define the margin of error and taller players have more MOE then short player

how fast can guys with these height serve while still keeping a reasonable %

5'6
5'8
5'10
6'0

im around 5'6-5'7 with shoes and was just wondering what is the maximum speed i can serve at while still keeping a 50-60% i haven't measured with speed gun but im sure its not that fast my rating is 3.0-3.5 borderlined but i can say i have a better serve then most guys in that level range ( good form:)) note im currently not jumping serve yet im only doing cylinder stepping serve as it is more consistent for now

ideally i want to serve at least 90mph on first serve, is that possible?
and is pronation speed something that can help with this?
 
If your name in Benjamin Becker (5'11") and are a experimented touring pro with a shoulder of steel; you may be able to reach 110-120 regularly and peak at 140 when you're trying your absolute hardest (no I'm not joking, 140mph). Else, you gotta spin those balls in.
 
Lukhas said:
If your name in Benjamin Becker (5'11") and are a experimented touring pro, you may be able to reach 110-120 regularly and peak at 140 when you're trying your absolute hardest (no I'm not joking, 140mph). Else, you gotta spin those balls in.
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im probably not reaching 5'11. haha but i dont expect to serve 100+ flat, like i say 90mph is good for me as i think thats a much more realistic goal :)
but do you think at my height i can serve that speed consistently around 50%
 
If I were you I wouldn't be concerned with achieving a specific velocity. Get the form correct. Keep the arm loose and generate as much racquet head speed as tou can. That speed can go into flatter service or spinnier serves. Placement and using the same toss location to go to either side of the box is important too.
 
I think you can serve over 90 mph more than 50% of the time at your height. I'm around 5'10 in tennis shoes and I can hit 90 mph serves in the court 80% of the time.


Edit: A lot of it will depend on your technique, and how high you can get up into the ball. I am about a foot off the ground when I make contact (if I'm doing it right haha) so that helps give the height you need to get it into the court.

If you look at the smaller guys on tour (Ferrer, Nish) they get up around 18 inches off the court and they can easily hit 110+ more than 50% of the time.
 
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rkelley said:
If I were you I wouldn't be concerned with achieving a specific velocity. Get the form correct. Keep the arm loose and generate as much racquet head speed as tou can. That speed can go into flatter service or spinnier serves. Placement and using the same toss location to go to either side of the box is important too.
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yes defintely i agree placements are more important but it needs certain amount of speed to be effective
 
HotCarl said:
I think you can serve over 90 mph more than 50% of the time at your height. I'm around 5'10 in tennis shoes and I can hit 90 mph serves in the court 80% of the time.


Edit: A lot of it will depend on your technique, and how high you can get up into the ball. I am about a foot off the ground when I make contact (if I'm doing it right haha) so that helps give the height you need to get it into the court.

If you look at the smaller guys on tour (Ferrer, Nish) they get up around 18 inches off the court and they can easily hit 110+ more than 50% of the time.
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thats nice to know since i haven't jump on my serve yet so it looks like i can improve
 
RFGOAT1992 said:
i know that height dont really define how fast you can hit the ball but it does define the margin of error and taller players have more MOE then short player

how fast can guys with these height serve while still keeping a reasonable %

5'6
5'8
5'10
6'0

im around 5'6-5'7 with shoes and was just wondering what is the maximum speed i can serve at while still keeping a 50-60% i haven't measured with speed gun but im sure its not that fast my rating is 3.0-3.5 borderlined but i can say i have a better serve then most guys in that level range ( good form:)) note im currently not jumping serve yet im only doing cylinder stepping serve as it is more consistent for now

ideally i want to serve at least 90mph on first serve, is that possible?
and is pronation speed something that can help with this?
Click to expand...

Justine Henin could serve up to 110, maybe 112 or so, from what I recall, and was generally over 100 on her first serve. As a 5'5 female.

Being 5'6 is definitely a disadvantage on serve, but it doesn't mean you can't have a good serve. A guy I play with a lot is about 5'6 and can serve just over 100 when he really goes after it (tested on radar gun) and can get 90mph or so serves in with pretty good consistency. 90mph is plenty fast for most levels, especially if you can place it.

One thing I found interesting is that this particular player likes to practice serves sitting on his knees, I think he does that about once a week. Sometimes when he's having issues with his serve, he'll hit a few from the knees during a changeover or after a set. I'm amazed when I see him do it, because it seems roughly as fast as his normal standing up serve.
 
RFGOAT1992 said:
yes defintely i agree placements are more important but it needs certain amount of speed to be effective
Click to expand...
Agreed. Just don't get hung up on a number (easier said than done, I know). Get good rhs with good form. If the form is correct then you'll be able to adjust how much of that rhs goes to spin.

Ultimately you're trying to mess with your opponent's returns. If he's missing returns, or you're getting a ball that you can do something with, then your serve is doing its job. If you find yourself neutral in the rally after the return you're not getting an advatage from your serve. If the guy is actually hurting you off the return, then there's a real problem.

There are lots of ways to hurt an opponent with your serve. Spins, placement, disguise, as well as pace are all tools that you can use. A solid top slice serve, a lot slower than 90, is beautiful tool to have in the the toolbox. Murray was hitting 75 mph top slice second serves at the USO and wasn't getting completely murdered by Djokovic. That serve would be total money at the rec level.
 
RFGOAT1992 said:
i know that height dont really define how fast you can hit the ball but it does define the margin of error and taller players have more MOE then short player

how fast can guys with these height serve while still keeping a reasonable %

5'6
5'8
5'10
6'0

im around 5'6-5'7 with shoes and was just wondering what is the maximum speed i can serve at while still keeping a 50-60% i haven't measured with speed gun but im sure its not that fast my rating is 3.0-3.5 borderlined but i can say i have a better serve then most guys in that level range ( good form:)) note im currently not jumping serve yet im only doing cylinder stepping serve as it is more consistent for now

ideally i want to serve at least 90mph on first serve, is that possible?
and is pronation speed something that can help with this?
Click to expand...

Yes, 90 mph is possible but that will take many years. Shorter term goal would be ~65 at 50%. If u can do that, then bump it up 5mph. You want a goal that is achievable and just out of your reach. I mean, we all want to serve 100mph+, but many don't set smaller goals to attain.

I'm 5'8" and I have a radar gun. It takes a lot of practice and I have to jump to get additional power and height. Well, not jump but use my legs.
 
Michael Chang's height is usually listed at 175 cm (just shy of 5'9"). At one point in his career he was able to hit his 1st serve up around 130 mph. However, this was probably somewhat later in his career when he improved his service action and he was using an extra-long 28" racket.
 
Michael was on the short side of 5'8".
In the French, like 5 years or more after he won it, he was timed at 125 something during match play.
His fastest serves in his teens would probably go high teens, but he spun his first serves in for a higher percentage rather than go for the quick point.
Figure, in their top years, match play, Connors and McEnroe seldom hit faster than 110, and they were 5'10" and 6' tall.
 
shindemac said:
Yes, 90 mph is possible but that will take many years. Shorter term goal would be ~65 at 50%. If u can do that, then bump it up 5mph. You want a goal that is achievable and just out of your reach. I mean, we all want to serve 100mph+, but many don't set smaller goals to attain.

I'm 5'8" and I have a radar gun. It takes a lot of practice and I have to jump to get additional power and height. Well, not jump but use my legs.
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i think you're on point im willing to work at it and yes it will probly take years but if thats what it takes... oh and adding even just 5mph is pretty difficult haha, not as easy as it sounds
 
90 mph at 60% is possible once you've played tennis for over 10 years, playing 5 days a week, 3 hours a day, coaching, drills, serious practice, and you're a 5.0 level player
Otherwise, it's basically impossible for someone shorter than say...5'10" to get those numbers.
 
Serena williams is 5"9 and has served 128 mph, she often serves above 120. the current women's record holder is lisicki at 131 who stands at 5"10.

that means short male rec players should really not worry on whether their height will limit their serve speed. there are a lot of 12 yo high level juniors who are 5"6 and can serve 90 mph.

yes at the top height will be a limiting factor and you will probably not serve like sam groth if you are 5"8 but technique and having a fast arm is by far more important.
 
Great info dominikk1985!

Aleksandra Krunić at the US Open hit several serves over 113 - and she is 5'4"

So guys if you have the desire you may be able to serve as fast as a girl!

Kidding - I would love to serve as fast as Krunic!!

http://m.usopen.org/en_US/scores/stats/day10/2210ms.html

115 MPH Fastest serve
98 MPH Average 1st serve speed
76 MPH Average 2nd serve speed

Krunic serving in her Keys match
 
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Serena is 5'10".
Plenty of pics of her next to Wozy after the match, and they are equal in height.
Serena is also stronger than any of us who posts on this forum, except maybe a couple of the weight lifter guys.
 
sorry.. but the OP at 5-6 is more likely to blow his shoulder trying, than hit 100 mph consistently and in. Unless he has Viking Shoulders..
 
At 5'6", there is no barrier to hitting even over 130.
But, when playing a tennis match, a first serve percentage below 20% is unacceptable by anyone and everyone, so a slower, spinnier serve is used to up the percentage somewhat.
Plenty of strong short guys who have explosive arms.
Just their strikepoint is too low to get a fast serve IN from their vantage point.
 
LeeD said:
At 5'6", there is no barrier to hitting even over 130.
But, when playing a tennis match, a first serve percentage below 20% is unacceptable by anyone and everyone, so a slower, spinnier serve is used to up the percentage somewhat.
Plenty of strong short guys who have explosive arms.
Just their strikepoint is too low to get a fast serve IN from their vantage point.
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I agree that short guys short hit more spin first serves but still an occasional flat serve can help to keep the returner honest (prevent him from stepping too far in the court), even though you might miss a lot.
 
Totally agree there, but lots of shorter players tend to stay back, so a heavy topspin serve does the job just fine.
Occasional flat blasts are great to implement, but a high miss percentage keeps those very occasional.
 
LeeD said:
Serena is 5'10".
Plenty of pics of her next to Wozy after the match, and they are equal in height.
Serena is also stronger than any of us who posts on this forum, except maybe a couple of the weight lifter guys.
Click to expand...

Actually LeeD, Serena seems more like 5' 8" usually. Got to take a group pic w/ her several yrs ago - I'm around 5' 11 and she was noticeably shorter.

OP: 5'6/7 should be fine to hit even 100. As rkelley and others have said, its much more about solid technique. also smoothness, TOSS, and good timing. For every 10mph you add, these are twice as important. Keep at it!
 
If you watched the match between Serena and Woz, and they walked past each other at least 10 times, spent time at net after shaking hands, and stood next to each other, you'd guess they were the same height.
While Woz is no Sharapova, she's gotta be 5'10" at the minimum.
 
LeeD said:
Serena is 5'10".
Plenty of pics of her next to Wozy after the match, and they are equal in height.
Serena is also stronger than any of us who posts on this forum, except maybe a couple of the weight lifter guys.
Click to expand...

You kidding?

I know Serena looks huge on TV, but I'd guess that the average couch-potato skinny-fat male who is around her size or slightly smaller than her would be comfortably stronger than her.
 
i think avg 90mph is good enough for me i dont need 130mph flats thats unrealistic whats important is the percentage in
 
It is so much more work being short. So much extra energy used to be effective and competitive on serves.

I am only 5'10" on a good day so I know firsthand. Watch me serve overhand on a paddle tennis court and I am a God :-) It is the only chance I have to feel like one of the big boys.
 
Service motion mechanics, leg strength, core strength, a live arm, strategy - these things have way more to do with your ability to serve well than height. Unless you're already doing everything else as well as you possibly can your height has about as much to do with your ability to serve as the color of your socks.

Generally, when people see a tall guy you think he's got a big serve and you see a short guy you think he's a grinder. Once the match starts throw your preconceived notions out the window and play the opponent you've been given. In my years of college tennis I've come across 6'4" guys who hit a very attackable serve and 5'6" guys who can hit bombs.
 
goran_ace said:
Service motion mechanics, leg strength, core strength, a live arm, strategy - these things have way more to do with your ability to serve well than height. Unless you're already doing everything else as well as you possibly can your height has about as much to do with your ability to serve as the color of your socks.

Generally, when people see a tall guy you think he's got a big serve and you see a short guy you think he's a grinder. Once the match starts throw your preconceived notions out the window and play the opponent you've been given. In my years of college tennis I've come across 6'4" guys who hit a very attackable serve and 5'6" guys who can hit bombs.
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im currently trying to build a body that can serve those bombs.:)
 
TCF said:
Exactly who I thought of when I saw this thread. Thats the player who needs to be analyzed. A 5'4" women, not overly muscular, able to hit serves routinely over 110.
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Well like Giorgi who has serious heat on her serve. Too bad her 1st serve %age and number of DFs are both dreadful. :|
 
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heninfan99 said:
See Dolgopolov. He has a live harm and is the average height of a regular person.
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I have always been amazed at how big he serves for his stature. He is one of the exceptional exceptions. Really remarkable guy! And the rest of his game doesn't exactly suck. He does need a new GF, though.
 
Yeah :-) AND Seppi is very tall but serves slow for a pro.


Chotobaka said:
I have always been amazed at how big he serves for his stature. He is one of the exceptional exceptions. Really remarkable guy! And the rest of his game doesn't exactly suck. He does need a new GF, though.
Click to expand...
 
v-verb said:
Great info dominikk1985!

Aleksandra Krunić at the US Open hit several serves over 113 - and she is 5'4"

So guys if you have the desire you may be able to serve as fast as a girl!

Kidding - I would love to serve as fast as Krunic!!

http://m.usopen.org/en_US/scores/stats/day10/2210ms.html

115 MPH Fastest serve
98 MPH Average 1st serve speed
76 MPH Average 2nd serve speed

Krunic serving in her Keys match
Click to expand...

TCF said:
Exactly who I thought of when I saw this thread. Thats the player who needs to be analyzed. A 5'4" women, not overly muscular, able to hit serves routinely over 110.
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Bumping this up. I use a backhand grip and don't jump and can hit 92 topping out at 95 mph. Super frustrating not to hit 100 but I think with some practice and switching to a conti grip and I'll hit that mark. I'm 5'7", 165 lbs and 57 yrs old (yes ancient but still younger than LeeD;<) - who I do respect BTW
 
I know Serena looks huge on TV, but I'd guess that the average couch-potato skinny-fat male who is around her size or slightly smaller than her would be comfortably stronger than her.
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Well probably only in the upper body - and not compared to weight. But that's not why Serena hits big serves. Serving is throw - so even skinny guys can throw hard like a Pedro Martinez.. I think for smaller players you want to work on a technically solid motion that adds a little top to your 'flatter' serve - like a Pete Sampras.. This way you can learn to crank it while still getting them in. Of course that's way easier said then done..
 
Arm length is one factor. 2 different 6'ers, one might reach up 7'6" flat footed, while another would reach 8'+ standing flat footed.
Technique is most.
Serena is 5'10" or a hair under, and around 170 lbs. While that is not big for you weight lifter superhumans, I'll bet ther legs are bigger and stronger than yours, and her arms are the biggest and strongest in the WTA.
If you dispute the height, look at pics or vids of her next to the giraffes of WTA, all those 6'ers that she has to play to win finals.
 
Jumping is something that no one on this thread has considered (and is seemingly ignored by guys like Vic Braden). With some vertical you can raise your contact point and that is like being taller. So like if you are 5'9" and get like 3 inches..well you get the idea..
 
OP i would think u be able to ran between 90 to 120ish. Without to much problem
Like many said it depends on your form more then anything.

As been noted Krunic was running around 115ish on her flat serve.
I followed her since the us open and seen her get up to 118ish

Her serve motion is so smooth and quick. When she is not going for pace she is
running in the 90's and high 80's on her out wide serves.

Power is over rated anyway. Its all about placement and disguise
 
Jumping usually only raises your contact point maybe 9" at best, maybe 12" for the young up and coming pros.
I"m 5'10". My contact point when I was younger was around 9'8". Now, can't jump, so maybe 9'3". It's said, 10' gives you visual clearance to see the opponent's service line. Gravity helps always.
 
Jumping usually only raises your contact point maybe 9" at best, maybe 12" for the young up and coming pros.
I"m 5'10". My contact point when I was younger was around 9'8". Now, can't jump, so maybe 9'3". It's said, 10' gives you visual clearance to see the opponent's service line. Gravity helps always.
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Yeah but that's a lot for a shorter player... Like I said even a couple of inches can give you a height boost of sort.
 
Serve is not only high contact point, but also length of leverage, for serve speed.
Most shorter players, like me, at 5'10", barely have 5'10" wingspan.
Some goon like Michael Jordan at 6'6", has a 7'3" wingspan. Once he learns technque, his power potential is much much higher than mine, or yours.
Like, our contractor, I used to play Kezar Stadium 3 on 3 with, is 2" taller than me, and reaches just over 8'3", standing flat footed. I reach 7'5" in shoes. He's TWO inches taller than me. He has power potential, and reach, of course.
 
My buddy is like 5'9'' on a good day and he has no problem hitting 130 mph.



If you can jump as high as a taller man to get the same angle of velocity, then height doesn't really matter (to a certain extent).
 
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Serve is not only high contact point, but also length of leverage, for serve speed.
Most shorter players, like me, at 5'10", barely have 5'10" wingspan.
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You can use your whole body for leverage. Last I checked - African Bushmen like Manute Bol weren't exactly dominating - football, baseball or tennis - and all three are throwing sports. Roddick hit 150 and he was barely 6' ..and as as white guy not particularly long armed.. Flexibility in the shoulder matters a lot...
 
Speed probably isnt as important as overall energy put into the ball. A smaller frame man cant hammer a serve in flat, but with strength and technique he can put in the same amount of energy into the ball in the form of topspin. These serves can be heavy, and someone who masters spin can hit consistent aces due to increased angles.

Thats why I say focus on topspin when learning serve, because once you have a serve that violently kicks up above peoples heads, you will have the option touse that same energy to hit a flat serve with extreme speed.
 
Andy Roddick is listed at 6'2" and 180 lbs.
Having ape arms is not limited by race. Any race can have ape arms, or tyranosaurus short arms. I"m Asian, 5'10" with barely the same wingspan. My doubles partner back in the '70's, No.2 for CCSF, was just a hair shorter, and his wingspan was easily 6'2". Yes, he might have has wider shoulders, but we both weighed around 142lbs.
Fastest serves in tennis is Roddick, Groth, Anderson, Raonic, well above Jersy. None are close to 5'10".
 
Andy Roddick is listed at 6'2" and 180 lbs.
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Right. Likely 6'2" in shoes. I am a big basketball fan - and when you look at actual measured heights - they are always much then real heights. In tennis there is no combine - so they don't get official heights. That's why say Sharapova is listed at 135..(lbs). No one checks these measurements - but for the most part no one cares. Roddick doesn't really have long arms - from what I can tell. Long arms aren't limited to one race - but its pretty rare for white people.

Roddick had great technique and flexibility..to serve so big. Its not a size thing. Lots of guys were taller and longer then him on the tour..
 
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