Hell Bent for Leather

[retrowagen]

OK, so I freely admit I'm a retro grouch, and I prefer the uppers of my tennis shoes to be made from the hide of an animal. I've felt this way for the last 30 years of playing this sport fairly well.

Generally, I find leather uppers on shoes offer the best support, a natural flex pattern (no unnatural "folding" in weird places when the foot does its thing), and light weight.

Nowadays, though, it's well nigh impossible to find quality shoes with leather uppers! Sure, there are "lifestyle" shoes and low-tech classics (Adi Stans and the neo-retro Nastase Milleniums, but those look like they belong on the south ends of StUnNaZ and not a conservative but slightly hip upper 30-something like me). There simply is not much by way of good quality, non-petroleum-product based performance kicks.

I played in the Adidas Response +3 for the last two years; those are nice, perform OK, and have real cow on top. But they look like one of those bad 1970's sci-fi show space station's interior walls, what with the capsule-shaped slots all over and the silver trim. And much of the exterior leather is covered by vinyl cladding on the sides (very 1990's Pontiac-like, really).

Adidas just introduced the replacement for that shoe, the Response +4, and in photos, it looked more classy, affordable, and it is advertised as having Leather uppers... YES! I ordered a pair (once the second wave of them supplied our favorite tennis retailer), and upon receipt, was shocked to find they are also leather... not. Indeed, they have a slick, slippery sheen to them and the little Adidas materials tag says: "Upper: Synthetic-coated Leather." 'Scuse me?

Yeah, bad flashback: growing up, folks paid a maximum of $15 for a pair of (let's call a spade a spade) vinyl shoes (at Payless Shoe Source, or some such place), if they couldn't afford real leather. And their playground chums beat the stuffins out of them for wearing such lame shoes (shoes were one of the first status symbols kids laid hold of, back in the late 70's/early 80's when I grew up; now the shoes are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg [and everything has little skulls or flames on it]). And now we pay exorbitant $$$ for cheap-o vinyl shoes that look like little spaceships. Why? WHY??

Hey Adidas et al, round up some cows or 'roos and make us some real shoes, OK?

-Your Pal,
Retrowagen

 

[Cruzer]

I like my footwear to made out of an animal hide as well however that mainly applies to wingtips and cowboy boots. The reality about leather tennis shoes is like this.

1. Leather does not breathe. My feet sweat enough already in supposed breathable tennis shoes. A leather tennis shoe is only going to expidite the onset of foot fungus.

2. A leather shoe is significantly heavier than a shoe made from other man-made materials. I think in most athletic endeavors lighter is better than heavier when it comes to clothing and footwear.

3. Leather shoes often require a break-in period. Who is going to want to suffer through playing a couple of tennis matches in leather tennis shoes that are quite stiff because they new?

4. Leather shoes are more expensive than a shoes made from other materials.

5. Polishing leather tennis shoes would take away time playing tennis.

 

[EZV]

great album. gonna go listen to it right now

 

[MAXXply]

Retrowagen, I'm figurin' we had it pretty good growing up, from a tennis-consumer standpoint.
Footwear of any type could be reliably found to be made of leather and so it was with most athletic shoes. I attribute the decline of old-skool performance footwear to Big Sneakers (like Big Tobacco/Oil/etc) whose relentless marketing of, and over-emphasis, on technology has seen the virtues of leather fall by the wayside.
For tennis purposes, should we trace the rot back to when The Big Swoosh introduced Durabuck for their Air Challenge Courts? Granted, the Lendl GTX Supreme had that perforated synthetic mesh type upper (complete with Dali-esque Lendl motif on the tongue - the highpoint of tennis footwear IMO), but the stresspoints were leather.
The Reebok Phase I was too flimsy for me but they also did the commendable ATP and numerous other leather ones in the late 80s.

 

[slice bh compliment]

Hey, is this the Judas Priest thread?
kidding

I'm all for technology enhancing the stability, support, cushioning, durability and performance of a shoe.....but yeah, the stress points ought to be leather (or a synthetic material that's worth a damn).

What do the shoe manufacturers say? That the new stuff is cheaper and also better? Please.

I miss the Diadora Rebound Ace. Great leather on a very well made last and midsole. They used to be KNOWN for excellent leather shoes. Now, even Diadrora's gone with the microfiber/pleather uppers.

I must say, Babolat seems to do a good job with the pleather uppers. No complaints here.

I do think Big Sneaker is missing the boat. I'd definitely buy into some Babolat All-Court Leathers, especially if the leather part came in a light gray or a tan.

 

[WildVolley]

I think in some cases leather would be a superior material. It usually breathes better than pleather, though it isn't necessarily as stiff. The modern shoe manufacturers have gotten better about allowing a lot of ventilation in shoes that otherwise wouldn't breathe much at all.

I think part of the problem is economics. Big chunks of high quality leather have become more expensive. Part of Nike's early success was finding that with the low cost of Asian labor, they could stitch together smaller chunks of leather less expensively than buying a large enough quality hide.

Quality leather dress shoes are costing more than $200-300 these days. My guess is that synthetics are much more cost effective.

 

[slice bh compliment]

...leather...breathes better than pleather, though it isn't necessarily as stiff. The modern shoe manufacturers have gotten better about allowing a lot of ventilation in shoes that otherwise wouldn't breathe much at all.

I think part of the problem is economics. Big chunks of high quality leather have become more expensive. Part of Nike's early success was finding that with the low cost of Asian labor, they could stitch together smaller chunks of leather less expensively than buying a large enough quality hide.

Quality leather dress shoes are costing more than $200-300 these days. My guess is that synthetics are much more cost effective.

Excellent points all around. And when it comes to Nike and cheap labor, let's not forget about the children. But now that would be...
''breakin' the law, breakin' the laww.
break-kin' the laww, break-kin the law.''

 

[Richie Rich]

But now that would be...
''breakin' the law, breakin' the laww.
break-kin' the laww, break-kin the law.''

why did you just make me think of beavis & butthead ??

 

[staedtler]

I hear ya. Although TW lists the Response 4 has having full grain leather. Full grain is pretty darn good, soft, and supple. Then again I dont know the quality of it on this particular shoe.

As for synthetic coated leather and synthetic leather. There is a big difference between the two from my understanding. Synthetic leather is obviously not real leather. Synthetic coated leather is real leather, but that has a thin coat of PU to hide the imperfections in the leather. The thin coat of PU also adds to the durability of leather, although it might feel stiffer and less soft. It also adds weight.

As for the use of leather, Im all for it on tennis shoes. I just assume companies arent using the nicest leathers for durability reasons. Like a part of me thinks the Vapor IVs uses a PU and not a real leather in the upper. Not even action leather. I cant tell as of now, but I cant wait to dissect them to see.

 

[retrowagen]

Yeah, the Response +4 are definitely NOT top grain leather. Hide of the Nauga, may-bee, but not real leather.

I can understand that a syntheticly-coated leather might really be nice on a golf shoe, or if one might expect to be traipsing through moisture of an unnatural quantity. But not on a tennis court. **OK, maybe they might make an easier shoe to clean after a clay court hit, I just realised that. Otherwise, aquatic tennis is not sanctioned by the ITF.

I broke these in after walking around the house for a few minutes. My real AdiCow Response +3's also had a negligible break-in period... for many years, the break-in of a leather shoe has been decreased as the thickness of the hides used and the processing techinques have evolved into thinner, easier to make shoes. I'd guess the allure of the synthetics lies in the ease of making bizarre cut-outs and shapes out of them, and the cost savings. Real leather and Nappa leather seem to tolerate only smallish round perforations, not slot shapes or other funky geometrix.

Maxxply, My fave from the Magical Years was the old Lendl Comp. It was less of a tank than the Lendl Supreme as it had a poly sole (and not the tough and thick hard rubber sole) and full leather uppers, with perforations. Like the Supreme, it was also made in France - not by Thai pre-schoolers.

Slice, for a while in the early 90's, I was also a Diadora guy; I myself had an affinity for the Mavericks, in glorious full Nappa hides and um, some unusual colors. I still shake my head in disbelief that I rocked a blue pair (with white stripes) during clay season, '91. the Rebound Ace was the Goran shoe of the day, wasn't it?

 

[berserker]

New Balance 803's.

Leather upper, traditional style, good support, 6mo warranty.

 

[slice bh compliment]

...Slice, for a while in the early 90's, I was also a Diadora guy; I myself had an affinity for the Mavericks, in glorious full Nappa hides and um, some unusual colors. I still shake my head in disbelief that I rocked a blue pair (with white stripes) during clay season, '91. the Rebound Ace was the Goran shoe of the day, wasn't it?

Cool, man, you have great taste.
I had Diadora Borgs in the early 80s and one pr of boring white/gray Mavericks in college, but mostly I wore what I got free.

You're probably right about the Rebound Ace and Goran, but I associate that shoe with Guga in like 2000/2002. I think he had the 3/4 top version. I had the regular ones in white with red/navy and white with gray/black/yellow. Loved them.

Now, they do not make their premium shoes in anything over 12.5, so big-footed dudes like me are out of luck with Diadoras these days.