Help classify this semi-western grip

[Rajesh-S]

Hi,

I'm a 56 y.o. NTRP 3.5 player. Recently affected by tennis-elbow. After a 3-4 months break - want to start off slowly.

I am trying to understand what variant of semi-western grip I use. I heard that extreme grips coupled with improper techqniue can cause injuries. I think I'm either using the mild or moderate version - is that correct? Several years ago - I switched from Eastern to SW focussing on moving just my index knuckle and maybe thats why.

Posted below are images of how I hold my SW (#1) and in comparison to RacquetFlex's categorization (#2). In the clip #3, they talk about using "shoulder rotation" when using SW to prevent elbow strain! Is this equivalent to "releasing and relaxing the shoulder" - maybe that is where my TE came from? If you really spare a couple of minutes you can see me hitting FHs in my videos (#4, #5) using my SW.


1: My semi-western grip - multiple view points: (Full res. link)


2: Bevel 3 and 4 - Compared to the versions in RacquetFlex YT video: (Full res. link)


3: RqcquetFlex YT clip: Shoulder rotation to prevent elbow strain:
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxDjbAjjN-GYgkCx18R3X6Yz8xTaJLJdBY?si=o8BklaxWemCxSlWc

4: My videos:

Short 1 min:

Slow mo:

 

[jm1972]

You're getting tennis elbow from your 1HBH.

 

[Rajesh-S]

You're getting tennis elbow from your 1HBH.

Wow - I'd hardly saved and you replied! Thanks Jim. Yes unfortunately I've heard that too - is that true - is there something I can improve in my 1HBH please.

 

[jm1972]

 

[Curious]

Both fh and bh look pretty good to me. You even have the rare Federer ‘head stay on contact’ thing.

 

[Thiemster]

You could move a millimeter or two towards the right, it feels like it is a bit mild semi-western, I think another thing that could help is having a little bit more of a gap between the index finger and middle finger, which will improve your feel.

Everything else looks good

 

[blowouttennis]

Hi,

I'm a 56 y.o. NTRP 3.5 player. Recently affected by tennis-elbow. After a 3-4 months break - want to start off slowly.

I am trying to understand what variant of semi-western grip I use. I heard that extreme grips coupled with improper techqniue can cause injuries. I think I'm either using the mild or moderate version - is that correct? Several years ago - I switched from Eastern to SW focussing on moving just my index knuckle and maybe thats why.

Posted below are images of how I hold my SW (#1) and in comparison to RacquetFlex's categorization (#2). In the clip #3, they talk about using "shoulder rotation" when using SW to prevent elbow strain! Is this equivalent to "releasing and relaxing the shoulder" - maybe that is where my TE came from? If you really spare a couple of minutes you can see me hitting FHs in my videos (#4, #5) using my SW.


1: My semi-western grip - multiple view points: (Full res. link)


2: Bevel 3 and 4 - Compared to the versions in RacquetFlex YT video: (Full res. link)


3: RqcquetFlex YT clip: Shoulder rotation to prevent elbow strain:
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxDjbAjjN-GYgkCx18R3X6Yz8xTaJLJdBY?si=o8BklaxWemCxSlWc

4: My videos:

Short 1 min:

Slow mo:

I don't think it's tennis elbow, I wouldn't be surprised if it's PTS (pronator teres syndrome). From the looks of it, in my humble opinion, your arm is extremely stiff and you are using what seems like a lot of forearm (muscle) power (not to say that your forehand is bad, you are definitely generating a lot of power from your legs and torso, but your forearm is not whipping enough) and your straining your forearm muscle which is squeezing your pronator teres. I would guess that your sw grip isn't functioning as a regular sw grip that players utilize for generating top spin in a whipping fashion, rather you use it because your forearm is playing a big role in your stroke, and not enough wrist and because of that you need a closed faced racket to generate some spin. Honestly I think that if you would relax your forearm and wrist and whip the ball, your "TE" (tennis elbow) would go away. If that makes any sense. Are any of the balls in your video hitting the net?

 

[Rajesh-S]

Thanks @Thiemster and @blowouttennis.

Stiff forearm: I agree, my arm is stiff and not relaxed on follow-through. FH is not my strength and hence I keep trying to improve and focus on it. Hence the stiffness most of the times. The videos I posted are "practice hitting", in points I'd be 10 times worse.

PTS: I checked what PTS is - so while I definately don't have pain on the inside, pain point is classic TE.

Index finger: If I combine all this, the stiff followthrough and @Thiemster's observation of NOT having a gap at "index finger" may add up. I think it will allow a loser hand and a more complete follow through?

When I get back I will be trying the simple Andre Agassi FH and follow through. I love how simple and efficient it is.

Thank you again and look forward to other Forum member observations and suggestions.

 

[onehandbh]

Hi,

I'm a 56 y.o. NTRP 3.5 player. Recently affected by tennis-elbow. After a 3-4 months break - want to start off slowly.

I am trying to understand what variant of semi-western grip I use. I heard that extreme grips coupled with improper techqniue can cause injuries. I think I'm either using the mild or moderate version - is that correct? Several years ago - I switched from Eastern to SW focussing on moving just my index knuckle and maybe thats why.

Posted below are images of how I hold my SW (#1) and in comparison to RacquetFlex's categorization (#2). In the clip #3, they talk about using "shoulder rotation" when using SW to prevent elbow strain! Is this equivalent to "releasing and relaxing the shoulder" - maybe that is where my TE came from? If you really spare a couple of minutes you can see me hitting FHs in my videos (#4, #5) using my SW.


1: My semi-western grip - multiple view points: (Full res. link)


2: Bevel 3 and 4 - Compared to the versions in RacquetFlex YT video: (Full res. link)


3: RqcquetFlex YT clip: Shoulder rotation to prevent elbow strain:
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxDjbAjjN-GYgkCx18R3X6Yz8xTaJLJdBY?si=o8BklaxWemCxSlWc

4: My videos:

Short 1 min:

Slow mo:

How tightly do you hold your racquet when you hit your groundstrokes?

On serves?

 

[Rajesh-S]

How tightly do you hold your racquet when you hit your groundstrokes?

On serves?

Probably 6-7 on a 10? Considering the follow-through looking stiff. On serves - maybe same. Remember I am NTRP 3.5 to 3.75 and 56 y.o. My technique has flaws that need improvement plus age oriented stiffness.

A short 30 s. serves video:

 

[Rajesh-S]

Both fh and bh look pretty good to me. You even have the rare Federer ‘head stay on contact’ thing.

Thank you @Curious I wish -- I selft taught myself tennis in 1999, from Vic Braden's book and this 'holding the head still' has stuck to me all along. I wish my game was better than how it appears "on paper"

 

[weelie]

Is the pain on the outside of the elbow? If on inside, it is golfer elbow. You can of course get either from playing tennis.
For me, one handed backhand is a lot more common reason for elbow issue than FH.

When I had TE issues, I changed my racket setup (more headlight, two overgrips, less string tension, softer RA etc). Also I did buy a theraband, but did not use it much, but I did do wrist ( elbow exercises while driving (when ever my car was stopped, like a at traffic lights). That helped.

Of course if you move to a more modern grip, you need to hit more in front, which might lead to elbow issues (if you don't hit out front enough). And well, if you go full western, likely you will strain, but your grip still relatively mild. Keeping the head still, I assume you don't frame much, which of course is good for your elbow...

 

[Rajesh-S]

I must say - everyone on TW are just so helpful! @weelie - Thank you. So pain is on the outside of elbow. I never suspected BH, but have to be careful now.

Racquet: I didn't want to bring this up - hoping to correct grip and technique issues first. My current racquet was 71 stiffness and I am moving to Clash. As for strings - I just learnt this - I will pick softer and will be trying a multifilament for the first time. I will NOT afford breaking too often so may go back to poly if it does.

I will stick to my milder SW grip. I do hit off-center often, definately not a clean hitter.

Exercises - Traffic jams are a big part of my life here - so thats a good one! Please can you send links or content on what exercises are suitable?

 

[jz000]

Try raising the racket higher on the forehand, then slowly drop it as you adjust to hitting the ball.
It looks too stiff and static, the way you're dropping it so early.

 

[Bud]

Wow - I'd hardly saved and you replied! Thanks Jim. Yes unfortunately I've heard that too - is that true - is there something I can improve in my 1HBH please.

Keep your arm straight and ditch poly strings if you're using them

 

[weelie]

I must say - everyone on TW are just so helpful! @weelie - Thank you. So pain is on the outside of elbow. I never suspected BH, but have to be careful now.

Racquet: I didn't want to bring this up - hoping to correct grip and technique issues first. My current racquet was 71 stiffness and I am moving to Clash. As for strings - I just learnt this - I will pick softer and will be trying a multifilament for the first time. I will NOT afford breaking too often so may go back to poly if it does.

I will stick to my milder SW grip. I do hit off-center often, definately not a clean hitter.

Exercises - Traffic jams are a big part of my life here - so thats a good one! Please can you send links or content on what exercises are suitable?

Quick google AI reply:
No-equipment exercises for tennis elbow focus on gentle forearm stretches, such as the wrist extension stretch where you gently pull your hand back with your opposite hand, and wrist flexion, where you pull your palm forward to stretch the forearm. Other exercises include slow, controlled forearm rotation and clenching the fist to strengthen the muscles gradually. Perform these exercises gently, stopping if you feel intense pain, and hold stretches for about 30 seconds, repeating them a few times.
Stretches

• Wrist Extension Stretch:With your arm straight and palm facing down, bend your wrist back to form a straight line with your forearm. Use your other hand to gently pull your fingers towards you to feel a stretch on the top of your forearm. Hold for 15–30 seconds.
• Wrist Flexion Stretch:Straighten your arm, with your palm facing up. Use your other hand to gently pull your fingers down, feeling a stretch in the top of your forearm. Hold for 15–30 seconds.
• Forearm Rotation (Pronation/Supination):Rest your elbow on a table with your hand over the edge, palm facing down. Gently turn your forearm so your palm faces the ceiling (supination). Slowly return to the starting position (pronating). You can also use your other hand to apply gentle pressure on the wrist to increase the stretch as you turn your arm inwards.

Strengthening

• Wrist and Finger Movements:Gently squeeze your fist, then slowly relax and open it.
• Forearm Resistance:With your elbow bent at your side, keep your hand and wrist static and apply resistance with your other hand near your knuckles. Gently resist this pressure by slowly extending your elbow forward, then relax and repeat.

 

[TennisCJC]

Racquet: I didn't want to bring this up - hoping to correct grip and technique issues first. My current racquet was 71 stiffness and I am moving to Clash. As for strings - I just learnt this - I will pick softer and will be trying a multifilament for the first time. I will NOT afford breaking too often so may go back to poly if it does.

I will stick to my milder SW grip. I do hit off-center often, definately not a clean hitter.

71 stiffness is a complete no no for me. Try getting a much softer racket. The Clash is good and many of the Prince rackets have a soft feel. I suggest a frame in the 60-65 stiffness rating. I currently play Prince ATS Tour 290 which has a 62 stiffness rating. I add weight to the head and add an over grip and it is very comfortable.

String advice:
1. For all poly setup, string between 40 and 50 lbs. Change the strings before they break. Depending on the string, you may have to change after about 10-15 hours.
2. For a hybrid setup, try a multi main 16g with a smooth 17g poly cross. I string at 50/46 or 52/48.
3. If you string all multi, start tension at 55 lbs and go up or down in 2 lbs adjustments until you find tension you like.
4. If you can afford it, natural gut is a great option. It holds tensions and plays great until it snaps. Most guts are at least as durable as multis and I think they are a little more durable. If you are not a big string breaker, you might get 20 hours out of gut and it will play nicely until it snaps.

Google tennis elbow exercises as strengthening and stretching can help. Also, try not to over play. Tennis is a tough game and our bodies can only take so much.

BTW, I also am mostly self taught from Vic Braden's book Tennis For The Future from 1977. I started playing around 1976. I have made adjustments along the 50 year journey but Braden was a great coach.

 

[Rajesh-S]

71 stiffness is a complete no no for me. Try getting a much softer racket. The Clash is good and many of the Prince rackets have a soft feel. I suggest a frame in the 60-65 stiffness rating. I currently play Prince ATS Tour 290 which has a 62 stiffness rating. I add weight to the head and add an over grip and it is very comfortable.

String advice:
1. For all poly setup, string between 40 and 50 lbs. Change the strings before they break. Depending on the string, you may have to change after about 10-15 hours.
2. For a hybrid setup, try a multi main 16g with a smooth 17g poly cross. I string at 50/46 or 52/48.
3. If you string all multi, start tension at 55 lbs and go up or down in 2 lbs adjustments until you find tension you like.
4. If you can afford it, natural gut is a great option. It holds tensions and plays great until it snaps. Most guts are at least as durable as multis and I think they are a little more durable. If you are not a big string breaker, you might get 20 hours out of gut and it will play nicely until it snaps.

Google tennis elbow exercises as strengthening and stretching can help. Also, try not to over play. Tennis is a tough game and our bodies can only take so much.

BTW, I also am mostly self taught from Vic Braden's book Tennis For The Future from 1977. I started playing around 1976. I have made adjustments along the 50 year journey but Braden was a great coach.

Thank you @TennisCJC - the strings is one area I never gave a second thought. This is very helpful!

Exercises seemed boring but have realised the value now. Have started them.