Help me decide my racquet for 2024, and put an end to the racquetholism (for at least a year)

[Chairman3]

Adding to my original recs (which I firmly stand by, especially that six.one 100)

Newest Pure Strike VS, hugely overlooked and likely discontinued. A beauty to look at and very versatile. Mine was the wrong grip size and underspec so I let her go. But always tempted to take another spin.

 

[Trip]

Pure Strike 100

With all due respect, the regular Strike Gen3's, 100 included, are heavily muted/muffled, confirmed by Curtis after using the 98 16x19. He's looking for as raw, direct and unfiltered a feel as possible, thus the Prestige and Blade as frontrunners. I don't mean to say all that to squash your contribution, though. The Strike 100 is nice in other ways (namely controllable power) and I've seen a few club players around here using it to pretty good effect. I just don't think it makes the best fit here.

 

[Trip]

Adding to my original recs (which I firmly stand by, especially that six.one 100)

Newest Pure Strike VS, hugely overlooked and likely discontinued. A beauty to look at and very versatile. Mine was the wrong grip size and underspec so I let her go. But always tempted to take another spin.

My main reservation with the Six.One 100 is the sweet spot may be smaller than Curtis might ideally want. On the flip side, it does have a nice topspin OHBH-friendly twist weight of only 13.7 and the Six.One's legendary string bed consistency/solidity.

As for the PSVS, my concern there would be too much weight, swing weight and/or bouncy-enough string bed would be needed to get the kind of power output he's looking for. But I was on the playtest, played it for a while, and agree it is a sweet stick!

 

[Tronco20]

With all due respect, the regular Strike Gen3's, 100 included, are heavily muted/muffled, confirmed by Curtis after using the 98 16x19. He's looking for as raw, direct and unfiltered a feel as possible, thus the Prestige and Blade as frontrunners. I don't mean to say all that to squash your contribution, though. The Strike 100 is nice in other ways (namely controllable power) and I've seen a few club players around here using it to pretty good effect. I just don't think it makes the best fit here.

There's this one thing I've been wondering about for a long time on this board.
A lot of people say Pure Strike 100 is muted. I came from Pure Drive 2018 - that was the most muted frame ever, but PS 100 always felt crisp to me. Are all those people who claim PS 100 is muted sharing their experience with the frame or just copying somebody's thoughts without having played the frame themselves?

My friend has a Blade 98 16x19 v7 and although a great frame, it feels like there is a hundred dampeners installed in the stringbed, sooo muted.

I had a Vcore 98 2018 - extremely muted.

PS 100 Gen 3 is still the crispest racquet I've played so far. People say Gen 2 was crisp, have never played with that one. But after over a year of actually playing with the frame, PS 100 3rd Gen feels crisp to me.

 

[Chairman3]

My main reservation with the Six.One 100 is the sweet spot may be smaller than Curtis might ideally want. On the flip side, it does have a nice topspin OHBH-friendly twist weight of only 13.7 and the Six.One's legendary string bed consistency/solidity.

PSVS is a lesser choice, but still out there.

I think the six.one will have the blend of power and feel with the right amount of ease of use that he is seeking. Haven't seen anything about it having a small sweetspot but much like "feel" that can be a bit subjective. If he was using a 97 and striking the ball cleanly, the 100 wouldn't be worse, in my mind.

 

[Trip]

I think the six.one will have the blend of power and feel with the right amount of ease of use that he is seeking. Haven't seen anything about it having a small sweetspot but much like "feel" that can be a bit subjective. If he was using a 97 and striking the ball cleanly, the 100 wouldn't be worse, in my mind.

Fair point. From Curtis's account, though, he was wondering if a 97 was even in his wheelhouse at this point, so from my perspective the jury is still out on whether a smaller sweet spot would be optimal (thus my additional concern with the Radical MP).

 

[Hansen]

I would probably stick with your top 2 frames (Prestige MPL 2023 & Blade 100 v8) and start experimenting with strings and weight to narrow it down between the two. I don't believe in Goldilocks frames as there's no perfect frame out there

agree, and i would make comfort the deciding factor between the two frames

 

[Tranqville]

Are all those people who claim PS 100 is muted sharing their experience with the frame or just copying somebody's thoughts without having played the frame themselves?

I played extensively with Pure Strike Tour. It feels crisp and direct on hard flat shots, but muted on heavy topspin, rally or finesse shots. I also find it lacking contact feedback compared to, say, Blade or Prestige.

 

[Trip]

@Tranqville - What do you think of my assessment and suggestions, overall? My shortlist is a bit larger-headed and/or a tad more forgiving than yours, which I think will be a bit more of a help to Curtis in stabilizing his game, which IMHO is what he needs more so than anything.

 

[curtstead]

Hello all,

Been a lot of replies so far, way more than I could have ever hoped and I greatly appreciate it. Even the toughest of replies, those made me think the most. I slept on it, and decided a few things after reading some more replies this morning:

- I have a Pro Kennex 5G coming, along with a demo of the Six.One 100. I have hit with a Pro Staff X before for a few minutes at a team practice, and didn't feel either way towards it. Not going to add that one just to keep the list short as I only have so much time. Gotta adhere to the self made deadline or else what is even the point.

- A friend of mine has a hardly used Gravity MP Auxetic in my grip size that he barely uses, says I can try it as long as I want and doctor it up in any way with mods and strings, he doesn't care. He has it string with gut/poly and it's been used for literally an hour or two.

- Actually kinda agree that maybe XL just isn't the way I reasonably want to go. In regards to maining an XL, if my elbow is going to feel even the slightest thing, it doesn't make sense to try it. So, smart to just go ahead and eliminate the 7G and the Whiteout XTD 18m. Although to be clear, I'm never going to sell the Whiteout XTD 18m or the 7G. Awesome sticks for a collection I plan on keeping, as I have been unloading the rest of my inventory for a while now.

So reasonably, over the next 4-5 weeks, here is what I'm going to try and narrow down:

1.) Wilson Blade 100 V8: I will continue to try this, maybe with 16g string, and soon especially with weight at 3 and 9. Haven't tried that yet.

2.) Head Prestige MP-L Aux 2,0: and going to get it strung with Tour Sniper 16g that I have coming today.

3.) Pro Kennex 5G: I loved the feel, control, and consistency of the 7G. If I lose a bit of power to the 5G, but gain the maneuverability back from shortening the length, and retains everything else I love about the 7G, then I knew that this is a must try.

4.) Wilson Pro Staff Six.One 100 v14: Kinda off my radar, but I see the appeal. It is at least worth a try. I am curious what type of poly, both shape and guage would play well in this? How open is the 16m on this frame compared to the X for example, or other 100sq inch frames. Is it decent in stock form or need mods? Etc. Maybe @Chairman3 can give more feedback on the 6.1 100.

5.) Head Gravity MP Auxetic: Going to try it just because I have access to for free. I have plenty of putty and tape on hand to customize. Loved the feel of the Gravity Pro, just a bit too demanding at the end of the day. Wondering if this could truly be an easier to use version with the right mods.

If I happen to have time to try anything else, which I don't think I will have time to, in this scenario, I will likely give the Pure Strike 100 a try. I have a USTA teammate that has a couple, and he loves it. When I checked with him this morning, he said he liked it more than the 98 by a mile, and he's a solid 4.0, borderline 4.5 aggro baseliner that plays it completely stock. Like I said, not likely, but I NEVER thought I would like the Blade 100, and yet here we are. Open to a lot.

So... progress?

-Curtis

EDIT: Replacing the Strike 100 with the standard length Whiteout 98 18x20 as an honorable mention.

 

[Trip]

@curtstead - Good punch list of take-aways. I agree with all of them. You did leave out where you'd pursue a regular-length WO 18x20, which may be borderline for you anyways, but other than that, a solid plan.

On the Six.One 100 vs Pro Staff X, I did a break down the other week in another thread, which hopefully might be of help:

What is the difference between the Pro Staff X and Pro Staff Six One 100?

Head size is the same and they are from the same product line. Other than the minor spec differences, how do they play differently?

tt.tennis-warehouse.com

In short, if you hunger for more of a laser-focused repetition machine, with a crispier feel, and a more stoic string bed, it could be for you (think: Dusan Lajovic and his game, including his very break-down-resistant one-hander -- he plays with the 95 18x20, but nevertheless, the example player type is still mostly appropriate).

I would say, if you actually buy one more stick, considering you already tried the X and weren't taken with it, and have easy access to the GMP and PS100, it might as well be the Six.One 100. Otherwise, I think you're good sitting at where you are, and looking to hone in via customization and string setups.

Hope that helps again. Ready to assist with more, as needed.

 

[Chairman3]

My opinion, which echos several others and is not revolutionary...
Focus on the playing.

Don't worry so much about string spacing or how one frame compares to another.
Keep specs in the back of your mind, not the front.
Play based on what feels good and accentuates your game style/strokes.

Strings are a bandaid, more of a placebo. I've tested a ton of different strings in the same racquet at the same tension, so I have the experience to make this claim. Once you pick a frame, then you can toy with strings to make it better. But strings won't make a frame that doesn't work for you, work for you.
We all have good and bad days so keep that in mind too.
Recently I had a month of horrible tennis, same racquet I've been using since April, made me consider switching. Everythings starting to come back and I'm still using the same frame.

 

[Tranqville]

@Tranqville - What do you think of my assessment and suggestions, overall? My shortlist is a bit larger-headed and/or a tad more forgiving than yours, which I think will be a bit more of a help to Curtis in stabilizing his game, which IMHO is what he needs more so than anything.

The logic and the final list makes perfect sense to me. A lot of good calls and insights, like excluding non-standard length frames and DTC products. A bit surprised about crossing out Radical MP, but have to trust your judgement regarding the sweet spot. It's also great that you have at least one Wilson there, considering OP's racquet history. I feel strongly about having Solinco Whiteout 18x20 in final demo, just to bring in some best-in-class more modern feel compared to more traditional Wilson and Head.

And thank you @Trip for all your effort in proposing such detailed process!

 

[Tranqville]

If I happen to have time to try anything else, which I don't think I will have time to, in this scenario, I will likely give the Pure Strike 100 a try.

To me, Whiteout is like a better Pure Strike, with more comfort and feel. It's what Pure Strike aspired to be.

 

[curtstead]

To me, Whiteout is like a better Pure Strike, with more comfort and feel. It's what Pure Strike aspired to be.

Since I already really like the feel of the WO XTD and not of the Strike 98, it makes sense to replace the Strike 100 with the standard length WO 18x20 in the honorary mention/potential 6th option category. So I'll edit my prev post with that change.

 

[Tranqville]

@curtstead I would also ignore that your frield plays well with PS 100. Think about it - every single racquet in the market have players who use it and love it. The racquet should work for you, period.

 

[curtstead]

@curtstead - Good punch list of take-aways. I agree with all of them. You did leave out where you'd pursue a regular-length WO 18x20, which may be borderline for you anyways, but other than that, a solid plan.

On the Six.One 100 vs Pro Staff X, I did a break down the other week in another thread, which hopefully might be of help:

What is the difference between the Pro Staff X and Pro Staff Six One 100?

Head size is the same and they are from the same product line. Other than the minor spec differences, how do they play differently?

tt.tennis-warehouse.com

In short, if you hunger for more of a laser-focused repetition machine, with a crispier feel, and a more stoic string bed, it could be for you (think: Dusan Lajovic and his game, including his very break-down-resistant one-hander -- he plays with the 95 18x20, but nevertheless, the example player type is still mostly appropriate).

I would say, if you actually buy one more stick, considering you already tried the X and weren't taken with it, and have easy access to the GMP and PS100, it might as well be the Six.One 100. Otherwise, I think you're good sitting at where you are, and looking to hone in via customization and string setups.

Hope that helps again. Ready to assist with more, as needed.

My opinion, which echos several others and is not revolutionary...
Focus on the playing.

Don't worry so much about string spacing or how one frame compares to another.
Keep specs in the back of your mind, not the front.
Play based on what feels good and accentuates your game style/strokes.

Strings are a bandaid, more of a placebo. I've tested a ton of different strings in the same racquet at the same tension, so I have the experience to make this claim. Once you pick a frame, then you can toy with strings to make it better. But strings won't make a frame that doesn't work for you, work for you.
We all have good and bad days so keep that in mind too.
Recently I had a month of horrible tennis, same racquet I've been using since April, made me consider switching. Everythings starting to come back and I'm still using the same frame.

The logic and the final list makes perfect sense to me. A lot of good calls and insights, like excluding non-standard length frames and DTC products. A bit surprised about crossing out Radical MP, but have to trust your judgement regarding the sweet spot. It's also great that you have at least one Wilson there, considering OP's racquet history. I feel strongly about having Solinco Whiteout 18x20 in final demo, just to bring in some best-in-class more modern feel compared to more traditional Wilson and Head.

And thank you @Trip for all your effort in proposing such detailed process!

Thank you so much, all 3 of you. You have been a great help! Time to hopefully start hitting with these soon, tomorrow hopefully.

 

[Robbie2005]

Pure aero 98. I feel is best overall. It as Control , power & spin. If you put a soft string set up like just normal round head lynx string at 54 pounds.Round strings make trajectory lower. U don't feel any harshness associated with babolats .
Dunlop fx500 2020 version is good for both flat & spin shots.
String is just as important. Mayb try diff strings in rackets u already tried. Softer set up is way forwars on stiffer rackets. If ball launches high use a round string to tame trajectory. Head lynx normal may work in some rackers u already tried

 

[Trip]

Strings are a bandaid, more of a placebo. I've tested a ton of different strings in the same racquet at the same tension, so I have the experience to make this claim. Once you pick a frame, then you can toy with strings to make it better. But strings won't make a frame that doesn't work for you, work for you.

In that context, I agree. You can do a ton with strings, but bottom line, they can only do so much to makeup for baseline physics -- that includes the weightings, flex, mold, head shape, drill pattern, etc. Customization is often a more effective band-aid over that stuff, but ultimately, you want a player in a frame that feels as close to "it" as possible, right from the get-go. On the flip side, you don't want to be spending forever and a day testing frames (not if you don't enjoy it, at least), so picking something "close enough" and just going with it, at some point, has to be done. I know that Curtis and most everyone else would agree -- thus the whole point of this thread.

A bit surprised about crossing out Radical MP, but have to trust your judgement regarding the sweet spot.

I've vacillated on the Rad MP, both for myself and Curtis. There's a lot to like. It certainly is a "do it all, but perhaps do nothing extraordinary" type of frame, in some senses the way the Blade 100 is, only in slightly a bit smaller, firmer version. Most players could make the Rad MP work if they had to. Question is, if we're really on the hunt for larger sweet spots, I'm not sure it moves the needle far enough in that direction. The outgoing G360+ is on fire-sale, though, so a pretty low-cost way to find out (and mostly similar to the current Auxetic, so a pretty good representation of both). Either way, if I were Curtis, especially because he's already tried the Pro, I wouldn't necessarily be clamoring to give it a shot at this point, with only 5 weeks left and a bevy of other frames at the forefront. It's a tough cut, though; if he had access to a buddy's frame, I'd say, definitely worth a hit.

 

[tim-ay]

I will get out there with the 5G asap. Especially at that price point. How do you find it in terms of forgiviness? I feel like the 7G is fairly forgiving, and has a large sweetspot. If the 5G is too, then yeah I'm definitely interested.

if you want to get all “tim-ay” crazy, turn a 7g into a 6g by cutting off 1/4”.

I seem to get almost all of the benefits from 27.25 frames on serve and groundstrokes without elbow pain on the one hander that I get from 27.5 frames. It’s pretty much universally true, but the 7G is a cheap way to try out surgery.

 

[Trip]

if you want to get all “tim-ay” crazy, turn a 7g into a 6g by cutting off 1/4”.

That's an interesting take! I'm not sure Curtis wants to get out the hack saw on the 7G quite yet, but could be a good side project!

 

[Fintft]

Thank you! The 400 is a possibility, especially at closeout pricing, but on the flip side, the string pattern is eerily close to the 400 Tour, and stiffness is even higher, beam even clubbier, and Curtis had enough depth control issues with the Tour as it was, so I'm not sure how the regular 400 would help to alleviate that issue. I'm open to being enlightened, though!



With all due respect, no. It's beyond proven that Curtis has gravitated towards much more classically-behaving, conventionally-flexing frames, and needs something that hits flat very predictably. That's not really the Shift, as much as it would be a Prestige, Blade and company. It's a great stick in its own right, but I'd hedge my bets on what he's already gravitated towards for this go around.

I am a flat hitter and I love the Shift 300 and it is very predictable. Don't know about Prestige and while I agree with the Blade and Blade Pro, I also reccomend prostocks such as 293.1 or 351.1.

 

[Tranqville]

I've vacillated on the Rad MP, both for myself and Curtis.

Radical product line was originally created with players like Curtis in mind: a players racquet, but more accessible to your 4.0 vs say Head Prestige Tour 600. Radical MP is also supposed to have no hard ceiling, one can play with it well into 5.0 and above. However, it looks like what is considered "forgiving" has shifted with time, maybe Radical line lost its touch with the market in the Graphene era - whatever it is, we now have more forgiving and modern options available. Adding to confusion, Head now has the Speed line with the same exact same promise of forgiving players frame.

Solinco Whiteout has an attractive promise of feel and playability resembling that of Radical LM.

 

[tim-ay]

That's an interesting take! I'm not sure Curtis wants to get out the hack saw on the 7G quite yet, but could be a good side project!

the last thing he needs is more to think about. but I’m all in on 27.25 at this point so threw it out there.

I love XLs but I always ended up moving on due to slight elbow pain and maneuverability. 27.25 just works for me and the OHBH. I have Wouts, Rads, 6Gs, 19 SX300T’s, PA’s, … all at 27.25. psychopath? yes!

 

[tim-ay]

Radical product line was originally created with players like Curtis in mind: a players racquet, but more accessible to your 4.0 vs say Head Prestige Tour 600. Radical MP is also supposed to have no hard ceiling, one can play with it well into 5.0 and above. However, it looks like what is considered "forgiving" has shifted with time, maybe Radical line lost its touch with the market in the Graphene era - whatever it is, we now have more forgiving and modern options available. Adding to confusion, Head now has the Speed line with the same promise.

I would say the Rad MP and the Rad Pro from the last two versions hit the mark. excellent all around frames. I think anyone could use them and be quite happy if they really want to stop thinking about frames.

 

[Trip]

I'd actually be inclined to agree and would double-back on myself and suggest it for Curtis to try, if it weren't for something have to get cut here with only 5 weeks before he just wants to commit and move on. I've hit with the G360+ numerous times, and always enjoyed the consistency of the string bed and how focused the sweets spot was. It probably should have / still should give it and/or the Auxetic some more time.

 

[ohplease]

There's this one thing I've been wondering about for a long time on this board.
A lot of people say Pure Strike 100 is muted. I came from Pure Drive 2018 - that was the most muted frame ever, but PS 100 always felt crisp to me. Are all those people who claim PS 100 is muted sharing their experience with the frame or just copying somebody's thoughts without having played the frame themselves?

My friend has a Blade 98 16x19 v7 and although a great frame, it feels like there is a hundred dampeners installed in the stringbed, sooo muted.

I had a Vcore 98 2018 - extremely muted.

PS 100 Gen 3 is still the crispest racquet I've played so far. People say Gen 2 was crisp, have never played with that one. But after over a year of actually playing with the frame, PS 100 3rd Gen feels crisp to me.

When I see people say muted I assume they mean a racquet just doesn't feel the way they expect given their experience with graphite frames from years past. Really an expectation or judgement thing vs. some absolute verdict on performance.

As a counter example - there are plenty of high level juniors and college players doing all sorts of amazing things including touch shots with the muted usual suspects - pure strikes, vcores, etc.

What I really don't understand are the folks who chase feel frames and strings, then stick a vibration dampener in there

 

[ohplease]

Radical product line was originally created with players like Curtis in mind: a players racquet, but more accessible to your 4.0 vs say Head Prestige Tour 600. Radical MP is also supposed to have no hard ceiling, one can play with it well into 5.0 and above. However, it looks like what is considered "forgiving" has shifted with time, maybe Radical line lost its touch with the market in the Graphene era - whatever it is, we now have more forgiving and modern options available. Adding to confusion, Head now has the Speed line with the same exact same promise of forgiving players frame.

Solinco Whiteout has an attractive promise of feel and playability resembling that of Radical LM.

I was going to say the same thing. For sure there are racquets that might hinder your development, or racquets that might have a ceiling. The radical isn't ideal for someone starting out but if a 4.0 can't get to 4.5, it's not because they chose to use a radical or something like it

 

[Trip]

When I see people say muted I assume they mean a racquet just doesn't feel the way they expect given their experience with graphite frames from years past. Really an expectation or judgement thing vs. some absolute verdict on performance.

As a counter example - there are plenty of high level juniors and college players doing all sorts of amazing things including touch shots with the muted usual suspects - pure strikes, vcores, etc.

What I really don't understand are the folks who chase feel frames and strings, then stick a vibration dampener in there.

"Muted" in this sense doesn't mean the racquet simply feels different than one expects to; no, it specifically refers to a type of impact feel: one that is muffled, vague, feint, even rubbery at times. It tends to stem from too much dampening/muting "tech" in the frame. That's what is being referred to.

As for playing touch, drop or other finesse shots with more muted frames, it's certainly possible. The muting isn't outright stopping the execution of those shots from happening, of course not. Rather, frames with more feel and connection tend to transmit more to the player from the string bed on contact, which often makes it easier to control and finesse those types of shots, even ground strokes and serves; to others, it's simply a matter of taste. But playing shots as a whole is not mutually inclusive or exclusive of having this that amount of feel, per say.

Re- dampeners, I do find that intersting, too. Me, I only add a cut-in-half-lengthwise neckband (acting as a shorter rubber band) around the center two mains and bottom cross, which I find preserves the most amount of feel, while serving it's main purpose for me: killing as much of that "ping" impact noise as possible.

I was going to say the same thing. For sure there are racquets that might hinder your development, or racquets that might have a ceiling. The radical isn't ideal for someone starting out but if a 4.0 can't get to 4.5, it's not because they chose to use a radical or something like it

Agreed. I wouldn't debate that in the slightest. Radicals are solid frames, the MP for any/all levels above about a strong 3.0 I'd say.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Has Extreme Tour been mentioned? That's one of the best recent frames IME.

 

[curtstead]

Has Extreme Tour been mentioned? That's one of the best recent frames IME.

I have footage posted of me playing with the Extreme Tour in the below quote. Just click the link, takes you to a swingvision recorded match from a few months ago.

2020 and 2022 Head Extreme Tour - Man, I wanted to love these frames. In many ways, I do. Pretty easy spin although lesser end for a "spin" frame, imo, control was pretty good, really comfortable. Felt like I played very consistent tennis. Just felt underpowered, little penetration through the court, at least in stock form. I know people have said this is a frame that's a sleeping giant with customization, but maybe I just never got there with it? Thought feel was okay, not great. I have footage with an Auxetic ET from a few months ago that you can find here. Really curious for people's thoughts on the Extreme Tour. Absolutely worth a revisit, especially with Head's 30% sale rn.

Head Extreme Tour 2022 match

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

I watched all your videos and speed read your posts and the others. You play the best with the VC98, but maybe that was just that match? From a 3rd party though, it's the best match you posted on video , passes the eye test.

I'd go with VC98 or Ezone 98 (you got great benefits according to your post, the downsides to your experience with that stick can be overcome using it for a year and you still get to keep the amazing serves etc.). Even if you think they are muted, you still played great with the VC98 so does it matter that much? (no dampener right, I couldn't see one).

I think the Pure Aro 98 is a good suggestion too .

Choose one and channel all this tennis love and energy into tactics and fitness and repetition/match play.

 

[ngoster]

I know it's not on the list and the goal is not to add to that list due to time constraints but you mentioned that you liked the Gravity Pro with the exception that's it's too much to swing for an entire match. I felt the same way. It felt more head heavy than what I prefer. Adding lead under the butt cap alleviated this and made it much more manageable and enjoyable to hit.

 

[socallefty]

I don’t understand how an extra 0.5 ounce in weight can make a racquet too tough to swing for an entire match - that is the weight of half a slice of bread or two quarters. My theory is that a lower level player playing with a 11.5 oz racquet gets tired in a long match and gives credit to his opponent for fatiguing his legs or denigrates him for being a pusher who beat him just by keeping points long. When the same player loses the same match playing with his 12 oz racquet, he blames the extra 0.5 oz weight of his racquet for making him late to shots - the reality is that his tired legs and maybe even nervous energy-caused fatigue are what made him late to shots in both matches. If you are late to the ball, you don’t hit good shots with either racquet.

 

[ohplease]

ok, so having actually looked at the different videos corresponding to different rackets - it's not the rackets.

regardless of what frame you're swinging, you've got a very effective stroke when you've got time and the incoming trajectory is predictable. when you're rushed to pick it up off the bounce or trying to cut off and intercept the ball (off a short hop/out wide/whatever) you're missing the shot in all sorts of ways.

there are three vids in particular that highlight this:

1) the guy you're playing in this one (Moses, Parter of the Red Sea VS DQ Fed N00b - Ultimate Tennis 3.5 CITY CHAMPIONSHIP! (Atlanta)) is using a pure strike, has all sorts of hitches in his strokes - but he's a very tough out because his court sense is really good. he's mostly stepping up to go get the ball. in contrast you're doing a lot of waiting for his ball to come to you - which just gives speedy wheels mcgee here more time to get back into position. there's no racket discussed here that will hit through this dude often enough to beat him easily.

2) in your Vcore 98 '23 match, you actually start/finish with the vcore but it looks like you switch to the prince ats tour in the second set. your opponent in this one (can't tell what he's using- maybe a blade with leather grip?) is more offensive and isn't as fast as in the first one on defense, but he still moves to the ball beautifully. not sure there's a racquet that beats this guy either as he's pretty darn good at both avoiding needing to be on defense and executing on offense.

3) in your Prestige MP L match you're the one moving towards the ball while your opponent (swinging an ezone?) is just kinda waiting for it to come to him. now, he's not as fast/pesky as the guy in #1, and he's not exerting offensive pressure like the guy in #2 - but the first order thing here is your opponent isn't taking time from you with footspeed (#1) or offense (#2) - it's not the MPL.

now - it kinda is the rackets in that you clearly don't want something so demanding that it won't help you when you're rushed or have less time (and you've proven you can hit well with just about anything given time). one of the frames you've already tried likely helps you more than others in those short hop or rushed scenarios, while also being good enough with your feet set - that's the one you want.

even if you go to work with that one - whichever it is - focusing on footwork and anticipation should be the next big thing as improving your shot quality when rushed (or forcing the issue yourself) will probably be your next biggest win.

 

[ngoster]

I don’t understand how an extra 0.5 ounce in weight can make a racquet too tough to swing for an entire match - that is the weight of half a slice of bread or two quarters. My theory is that a lower level player playing with a 11.5 oz racquet gets tired in a long match and gives credit to his opponent for fatiguing his legs or denigrates him for being a pusher who beat him just by keeping points long. When the same player loses the same match playing with his 12 oz racquet, he blames the extra 0.5 oz weight of his racquet for making him late to shots - the reality is that his tired legs and maybe even nervous energy-caused fatigue are what made him late to shots in both matches. If you are late to the ball, you don’t hit good shots with either racquet.

Everyone is built differently but it may have to do more with balance point than weight. Take a bat, for instance. Hold it from the handle and swing it one handed. Now hold it from the head and swing it. Which do you think will tire you quicker?

 

[Tranqville]

even if you go to work with that one - whichever it is - focusing on footwork and anticipation should be the next big thing as improving your shot quality when rushed (or forcing the issue yourself) will probably be your next biggest win.

OP has not asked us for help with his game. Let's focus on the racquet.

 

[Trip]

@socallefty - If I had to venture an educated guess, it's not the static weight that @curtstead and @ngoster are mostly referring to with the GPro; it's the swing weight. 315g static with a head-light enough balance and a low-enough swing weight is typically no problem for most adults, even many women. 334 average strung swing weight, however, for certain players (I'd argue a minority) may be just fine, but for the bulk of the rec population, it's often too much over time. I know it may not seem like such a big deal to you, who has been swinging that kind of swing weight for some time (in the PST), but for many, it's more than they ideally want, thus why the vast majority of retail sticks are in the 320's and below at this point.

 

[curtstead]

No it's okay, I'll gladly allow that door to stay open. Any game comments are more than fair and helpful for me. Any help is appreciated, equipment or not. (Equipment mostly just to settle on something, and game comments as the 2024 year goes on.)

 

[jimmy8]

I third.

I fourth.

Amazing racket. Amazing feel.

 

[Tranqville]

I don’t understand how an extra 0.5 ounce in weight can make a racquet too tough to swing for an entire match - that is the weight of half a slice of bread or two quarters. My theory is that a lower level player playing with a 11.5 oz racquet gets tired in a long match and gives credit to his opponent for fatiguing his legs or denigrates him for being a pusher who beat him just by keeping points long. When the same player loses the same match playing with his 12 oz racquet, he blames the extra 0.5 oz weight of his racquet for making him late to shots - the reality is that his tired legs and maybe even nervous energy-caused fatigue are what made him late to shots in both matches. If you are late to the ball, you don’t hit good shots with either racquet.

Because of the Newton's second law of motion, which states that F = ma. We all have optimal mass with which we can generate acceleration to maximize F (typically, around 11-12oz, 310-340 SW). On our max effort, we still accelerate below our theoretical limit by roughly 20%: that is the mechanism to protect our bodies from injury (top athletes can override that, or PEDs). I would speculate that with small increase in swingweight, we still try to maintain same acceleration, and that will not be optimal anymore! That is where we get tired, or injured. Or too slow. Considering that the effective mass m for tennis is the swingweight, not the static weight, adding 0.5 ounce in static weight could be absolutely massive in terms of impact on acceleration.

Here's a simple experiment for you next time you're on the court, either with a ball machine or a hitting partner. Do a rapid fire forehand drill with your normal racquet (Pure Strike Tour with Hyper-G Soft @47/44), swinging at 90% of your power to a target, for 30 seconds. Rest, add 4g of leadtape @12 and repeat to the same target. Let me know how you feel.

 

[socallefty]

Because of the Newton's second law of motion, which states that F = ma. We all have optimal mass with which we can generate acceleration to maximize F (typically, around 11-12oz, 310-340 SW). On our max effort, we still accelerate below our theoretical limit by roughly 20%: that is the mechanism to protect our bodies from injury (top athletes can override that, or PEDs). I would speculate that with small increase in swingweight, we still try to maintain same acceleration, and that will not be optimal anymore! That is where we get tired, or injured. Or too slow. Considering that the effective mass m for tennis is the swingweight, not the static weight, adding 0.5 ounce in static weight could be absolutely massive in terms of impact on acceleration.

Here's a simple experiment for you next time you're on the court, either with a ball machine or a hitting partner. Do a rapid fire forehand drill with your normal racquet (Pure Strike Tour with Hyper-G Soft @47/44), swinging at 90% of your power to a target, for 30 seconds. Rest, add 4g of leadtape @12 and repeat to the same target. Let me know how you feel.

There is hardly any retail racquet with SW above 335 these days even if they weigh 12 ozs. The heavier ones are all balanced even more head light to keep the SW in the 320-330 range typically. That’s why I find it hard to believe that heavier racquets are tiring out grown adults. Many of these racquets are being wielded by 10-12 year junior girls and boys at my club who are scrawny without any issues when I see them on the courts training for 3-4 hours every day. The difference in SW between some of the racquets being discussed here is within 10 points.

I tell people that the 16x19 Pure Strike and the Tour version have almost the same SW (less than the 6 points recorded by TW when I measured a few of my retail Tours and some of my wife’s old racquets) but they all shy away from even trying the 12 oz Tour just because they are afraid the higher static weight is ‘too much’ for their game. My wife in contrast tried my Tours after playing the normal ones for a while and found that the Tours are as maneuverable, but with more comfort, power and a slightly bigger sweet spot - so, she switched and hasn’t complained about the racquet being too much in long matches. The 18x20 standard weight Strike has a higher SW than the Tour according to TW.

Regarding your experiment, I’m not the type to mess around with leadtape. But I wonder if someone put 0.5 oz weight under the buttcap where you can’t see it and makes you play with your regular and weighted up racquet as you describe above, would you notice the difference? It has to be a blind test or otherwise the placebo effect kicks in where you are conditioning yourself mentally to believe there is a difference. Just like with grading wines, people always say the more expensive or more famous wines taste better unless it is a blind test where they don’t know the name or the price of the wine - then the results are all over the place unless the drinkers are wine experts. If the OP tried any new racquet models without reading any reviews or opinions here, I bet his playing experience would be different.

 

[Tranqville]

I agree with you, @socallefty, regarding high static weight frames. They can work for certain players, definitely worth demoing without prejudice.

 

[am1899]

Yeah, for me the concept that “heavier” racquets may be “too heavy to swing through the course of a match” thing often isn’t as much a thing as it’s made out to be. I’m still more inclined to believe it’s better for the racquet to be “on the heavier side” - wherever the given player’s continuum may be - than “let me use the lightest thing I can get away with” because it will be “easier.” Easier to swing maybe. But you’ll be swinging out of your shoes to get depth and there will likely be other side effects (instability, arm pain, etc.).

Also, IME some “heavier” racquets actually swing lighter than the spec would suggest. Case in point, a lot of folks warned me about the Blade pro - that it was likely going to be “too much” for me weight wise. I waited years to pull the trigger. In the end it was no problem. (Actually, I ended up experimenting adding more weight). Granted, I am 4.5C and I played D1 tennis years ago with racquets well over 12oz strung. But honestly, I don’t know how much my level (or yours for that matter) really has to do with this situation. I suppose if you were a 2.0 beginner this is all very different. But that’s obviously not the case here.

Anyway. I am also in a similar boat. I like control frames that offer feel. But I generally do more damage and win more matches with tweener frames (which often have garbage feel). Last couple years I carry both types of frames in the bag. And I’m pretty happy. YMMV.

 

[emhtennis]

When I see people say muted I assume they mean a racquet just doesn't feel the way they expect given their experience with graphite frames from years past. Really an expectation or judgement thing vs. some absolute verdict on performance.

As a counter example - there are plenty of high level juniors and college players doing all sorts of amazing things including touch shots with the muted usual suspects - pure strikes, vcores, etc.

What I really don't understand are the folks who chase feel frames and strings, then stick a vibration dampener in there

Not to take the thread completely off course, but I am one of those people that put a dampener in every racket. For the sound. I can't stand that pingy metallic sound. I need a concerted "thwock" from solid hitting. If there are frames that do that without a dampener I'd be interested to know!

 

[am1899]

Not to take the thread completely off course, but I am one of those people that put a dampener in every racket. For the sound. I can't stand that pingy metallic sound. I need a concerted "thwock" from solid hitting. If there are frames that do that without a dampener I'd be interested to know!

Same here.

 

[Trip]

It's not the frame so much as it is the grommet interface, but mostly the string material. IME, the older-school the string material is, the better the sound: even a hybrid with natural gut, syn gut or multi tends to sound better than a full bed of poly. That said, the newer co-poly formulations are getting a little better at not sounding like total pingy garbage. Granted, they'll likely never sound as good as gut, but they're slowly getting better.

 

[sports official 247]

Hello all,

Been a lot of replies so far, way more than I could have ever hoped and I greatly appreciate it. Even the toughest of replies, those made me think the most. I slept on it, and decided a few things after reading some more replies this morning:

- I have a Pro Kennex 5G coming, along with a demo of the Six.One 100. I have hit with a Pro Staff X before for a few minutes at a team practice, and didn't feel either way towards it. Not going to add that one just to keep the list short as I only have so much time. Gotta adhere to the self made deadline or else what is even the point.

- A friend of mine has a hardly used Gravity MP Auxetic in my grip size that he barely uses, says I can try it as long as I want and doctor it up in any way with mods and strings, he doesn't care. He has it string with gut/poly and it's been used for literally an hour or two.

- Actually kinda agree that maybe XL just isn't the way I reasonably want to go. In regards to maining an XL, if my elbow is going to feel even the slightest thing, it doesn't make sense to try it. So, smart to just go ahead and eliminate the 7G and the Whiteout XTD 18m. Although to be clear, I'm never going to sell the Whiteout XTD 18m or the 7G. Awesome sticks for a collection I plan on keeping, as I have been unloading the rest of my inventory for a while now.

So reasonably, over the next 4-5 weeks, here is what I'm going to try and narrow down:

1.) Wilson Blade 100 V8: I will continue to try this, maybe with 16g string, and soon especially with weight at 3 and 9. Haven't tried that yet.

2.) Head Prestige MP-L Aux 2,0: and going to get it strung with Tour Sniper 16g that I have coming today.

3.) Pro Kennex 5G: I loved the feel, control, and consistency of the 7G. If I lose a bit of power to the 5G, but gain the maneuverability back from shortening the length, and retains everything else I love about the 7G, then I knew that this is a must try.

4.) Wilson Pro Staff Six.One 100 v14: Kinda off my radar, but I see the appeal. It is at least worth a try. I am curious what type of poly, both shape and guage would play well in this? How open is the 16m on this frame compared to the X for example, or other 100sq inch frames. Is it decent in stock form or need mods? Etc. Maybe @Chairman3 can give more feedback on the 6.1 100.

5.) Head Gravity MP Auxetic: Going to try it just because I have access to for free. I have plenty of putty and tape on hand to customize. Loved the feel of the Gravity Pro, just a bit too demanding at the end of the day. Wondering if this could truly be an easier to use version with the right mods.

If I happen to have time to try anything else, which I don't think I will have time to, in this scenario, I will likely give the Pure Strike 100 a try. I have a USTA teammate that has a couple, and he loves it. When I checked with him this morning, he said he liked it more than the 98 by a mile, and he's a solid 4.0, borderline 4.5 aggro baseliner that plays it completely stock. Like I said, not likely, but I NEVER thought I would like the Blade 100, and yet here we are. Open to a lot.

So... progress?

-Curtis

EDIT: Replacing the Strike 100 with the standard length Whiteout 98 18x20 as an honorable mention.

Curtis…Try working an Origin into that demo list. 48-50lbs of 16 RPM Spin. Don’t let the specs scare you off.

 

[SinneGOAT]

My advice is at least try the ezone again with poly tour pro. It literally is like there’s some weird dark magic that makes this racquet play and feel great with this string only. It can work with others but it’s great with PTP.

 

[curtstead]

UPDATE:

1.) Now in hand, the Kinetic Classic 5G and what I have since learned is the new version of what used to be called the Eurostaff in the holic thread, aka the Pro Staff Six.One 100. Strung up, gripped, and ready for my USTA team practice tonight, along with a doubles flex league playoff match (I don't mind bringing it in to this specific match, I don't have much emotionally invested, so if anything it feels like a great opportunity to get some match pressure with them both).

The 5G looks nice in person, and I don't think this paintjob looks very dated at all. It's not my favorite paintjob, but I've seen posters crap on it and I don't see why. Nice frame. Excited to try it, and swings nicely in shadow swings outside my office.

The V14 6.1 100 is just gorgeous. The glossy paint job is fantastic, and feels nice in hand. Doesn't feel like a 100 to me, more like a 99 with the oval shape, kind of like my Prestige MP-L. I remember we all HATED the photos of the V14 Pro Staff when it first came out, and once I hit with the 97s I liked it much more in person. This glossy version though?? Wow. Swings very nice when I stepped outside with it to do some shadow swings. Feels very fast.

2.) I posted with the hopes of replies, and one that was commonly brought up was the Shift 300. Out of respect for the posters taking time to leave their opinion, it feels only right to at least give it a go. My friend who is loaning me his Gravity MP also has a Shift 300. Given that I believe five posters mentioned the Shift 300, I will be getting that from him soon as well. It's the Pro Labs version, and he strung it with Restring Zero 17g, I don't know what tension. Regardless, I will soon get to try it as well.

That's all I got for now. Will post my initial hit thoughts either tonight or tomorrow morning.

-Curtis